PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I think healthbars are stupid. I've always thought that you should just lose limbs one at a time until you die. Then you have to start over.
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Health Regeneration in Games :(
- Thread starter D3MO
- Start date
Red Scarlet
Member
Attack You said:
huh?
I'm probably on the opposite spectrum of your beliefs, bob. If I don't have to put any effort forward to get through a game, I don't bother playing it. I think if the player never gets a game over when they are new to the game, then it has design issues. No win button, please.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Red Scarlet said:
So DQ, Zelda, and FF have design issues?
Red Scarlet
Member
I don't think I've never not gotten a game over in any of those my first time through them. I sometimes still do on occasion.
Check the next couple of words after what you bolded!
I think the original thread where that debate began was about action games. It might not have. But yeah, I'd say the game might be a bit too easy if the player never dies or doesn't get a game over the first time through.
Check the next couple of words after what you bolded!
I think the original thread where that debate began was about action games. It might not have. But yeah, I'd say the game might be a bit too easy if the player never dies or doesn't get a game over the first time through.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Red Scarlet said:I don't think I've never not gotten a game over in any of those my first time through them. I sometimes still do on occasion.
Check the next couple of words after what you bolded!
I think the original thread where that debate began was about action games. It might not have. But yeah, I'd say the game might be a bit too easy if the player never dies or doesn't get a game over the first time through.
Yeah I know, just givin one of my favorite posters a hard time. I'm just sayin: dying in game is not the mark of good game design (nor is not dying).
Attack You
Member
I think the most consistent criticism of (recent?) Zelda games is that they're too damned easy.
Red Scarlet
Member
PantherLotus said:
Ok now I know you're just making joke posts with that first sentence.
I like lots of games that I rarely or don't die in; I also like some that I die a lot in. But if you are playing the game for the first time and don't ever die once, then maybe the game is a little bit too easy, imo. But some people play games in specific ways that could make it hard to die at all (like Mejilan). I think I'm talking in circles now.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Slavik81 said:
you'd have to know Red Scarlet to get it.
And to the point, yeah -- clearly they're not. But the easier ones (DQVIII, Wind Waker, FFX) are some of my favorites of each series, and not incidently, the only ones past the originals that I've beaten.
tahrikmili
Member
I try to think of health in h. regen. games in the same way D&D treats hitpoints, i.e. they are not representative of a character's ability to survive physical trauma but offer an abstract visualization of the character's ability to avoid fatal injury.
That means, the bullet that kills you is the one that actually hit, the rest are mostly burnt luck. Meaning, the longer you stay under a hail of bullets the more likely you become to take one in the head..
That means, the bullet that kills you is the one that actually hit, the rest are mostly burnt luck. Meaning, the longer you stay under a hail of bullets the more likely you become to take one in the head..
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
But that doesn't actually address the debate at hand: how to balance a game's difficulty while not absurdly regenerating health, either through magical armor, cheeseburgers on the ground, or big green leafs.
Didn't Shadowrun have a thing where you actually had to go to the hospital? That was cool.
Didn't Shadowrun have a thing where you actually had to go to the hospital? That was cool.
I suppose a more "realistic" way to do health regeneration, at least in single player, would be if the computer shoots at you, they initially miss. However, if the computer shoots at you too many times over a short period of time, the next bullet hits and kills you, or at least wounds you suffiently that you can't continue the mission, and it's game over. Functionally, it would work identically to health regeneration systems, but you'd only take one shot before losing.
shysaursoft
Member
I like the "pressure" dynamic a regenerating health system can bring to an action game if the system is implemented right and the game design itself compliments the system by having proper impact on the regenerating health.
But that's me. I'm obviously the "other 95%" in gaming circles.
But that's me. I'm obviously the "other 95%" in gaming circles.
I came in here wanting to post this.Demigod Mac said:
Regenerating health solves a few stupid issues with loading/saving/checkpointing in games that are pretty disruptive to the flow of a game. There's a lot of stupidity to be had when you start using the load/save system as an extension of the game mechanics.
1)You cross a check point with relatively low health and figure it's a great idea to kill yourself because that lets you continue with full health.
If designers don't implement recharging at checkpoints to avoid #1, they end up with:
2)You cross a check point with relatively low health and find out you're screwed because you don't stand a chance in the upcoming battle, and every time you load your checkpoint, you start with the same low amount of health.
Then there's much fun with quicksave/quickload, which is more of a PC phenomenon but relevant to the discussion anyway. Basically, you'd feel compelled to optimize your post-battle health by reloading an encounter as many times as possible to get a perfect result. It's so easy, so why not do it? It's a valid choice for the player, but it does diminish the direction and atmosphere of the game, so it's also valid for designers to want to take it away from players. Recharging health does that. You either win a battle and get recharged fully or you don't. It removes the nuance to game around with.
a Master Ninja said:
I don't have a Xbox/360 so I've never played Halo, Gears, Riddick, or CoD2; I'll have to amend that though, as I have played Resistance for about 30 minutes (I've been trying to get through my PS2 stack first... :/ ) - I forgot that it had a partitioned regenerating system.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Regenerating health is really the way to go... it just allows designers to implement firefights that are that much more intense. Have enemies that WILL hit you. Feel the rush in each battle, without lingering and unintentional consequences later.
More over... searching for medpacks and related items is really a bore. I don't need that.
More over... searching for medpacks and related items is really a bore. I don't need that.
Bren McGuire
Member
_dementia said:
The Armlet of Tranquility was removed in Black though.
BobJustBob
Member
Wii said:
Yeah, that was the worst system ever. A compromise that satisfies no one.
We need health regeneration system that doesn't revolve around "insta" health packs. I mean that game play mechanic was around back when DOOM was hot. :lol
But regenerative healths in realistic shooter is a cop out as well. I want to see a system where you carry Dextran solution on the battlefield and have to inject yourself with the fluid every time you loose too much blood or you will end up going into shock and dying. And have morphine to help with your movement and aiming because having a bullet stuck in your arm cannot be very good on your aiming...
And NG2's health system is fine with me, in fact it makes the game more challenging. No more relying on blue orbs on the battlefield to save you.
But regenerative healths in realistic shooter is a cop out as well. I want to see a system where you carry Dextran solution on the battlefield and have to inject yourself with the fluid every time you loose too much blood or you will end up going into shock and dying. And have morphine to help with your movement and aiming because having a bullet stuck in your arm cannot be very good on your aiming...
I am with you on this. I was terribly disappointed at the inclusion of the Dash in NG2. At least change up the animation. =/
And NG2's health system is fine with me, in fact it makes the game more challenging. No more relying on blue orbs on the battlefield to save you.
Sandman42 said:
I know this is an old thread but this is a good topic and I must vent. I am currently going through the orango baucks and Half-Life 2 is turning out to be an incredibly fun game. But I'll be damned if it hasn't been incredibly frustrating at times(prison turrets anyone? Striders?) Health packs are spread out in HL2 pretty well, but it'd be a mush less tedious experience if Gordon Freeman had health regen. I can't count the number of times I've hit the load key, EVEN IF I MADE IT THROUGH a firefight! Because sometimes I'd emerge victorious, and then look at my bar and think "Y'know, I bet I could do that battle even better upon retrying it." You become obsessive about doing gun battles over and over to see if you can retain as much health as possible. It becomes and excercise in tedium.
As much as I am enjoying the orango box, a part of me can't wait to move onto other FPS that DO have health regen, like Oblivion and C0D4. I'm especially looking forward to the combact in Oblivion!
HR made playing GoW a great experience....and no, I wouldn't say it made it easy, cuz i died lime a gazillion times anyway. It just made things progress more smoothly, as opposed to Halk-Life2
I welcome HR with open arms. Hopefully episode III with have it.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
isamu said:
That's kind of weird...HL2 fills up your health pretty regularly, especially before or after big encounters. Why would you reload obsessively? That also seems more of a consequence of the save system rather than the health system.
Prime crotch
Banned
I'll say it again, both ways are fine and both are unrealistic.
HL2 is probably one of the best as far as level design, medpack drop goes.
HL2 is probably one of the best as far as level design, medpack drop goes.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I think regeneration of health is a cool new addition to games. One of the cooler mixes of this was in Resistance. I liked they hybrid nature of using both med kits/health bar & regeneration of health. You get the tension that after a firefight you'll still be low at health and needing to find a medpack, but also if you don't pass one of the "check points" in the bar you'll regenerate back the health...just not all of it.
A very cool system, IMO
A very cool system, IMO
MWS Natural
Member
I thought HL2 gave too many health packs throughout the game honestly and I'm some super FPS gamer or anything. I just always have near full health throughout the game only having trouble during a few of the boss fights.
Kitschkraft
Member
Just wondering, did anyone else initially feel that Bioshocks health system was humourously dated when they first played the demo, only to later realize how well it fit the gameplay, mainly because of the big daddy boss fights (Where you MUST be able to have control of your health and health pack use without having to walk over them)?
Kitschkraft
Member
MWS Natural said:
I'm almost done with Episode 2, on "Our Mutual Friend" (I can "understand" that it's a great level, but I think it's a PitA really) and I'm finally on my way to being fed up with the recovery system. I just can't get over having to walk to certain spots to regain my health, they should have made it so you could hold on to a few health packs or something (I agree with you however that it's not too big of a problem, considering that I've played every version on hard and only like 5 percent of any of it has been difficult).
I don't think the health regeneration is a bad mechanic as long as it's balanced right. In Resistance I found that it worked quite well. I'm sure there's a lot of people on this board who prefer unlimited health and will state that the hardcore should just reset the system after 3 shots.
Yeah, Half Life 2 had a nice way of providing health just when you need it the most. BioShock's system however killed any kind of suspense they were hoping to achieve. Thank god for that patch.
Gattsu25 said:
Yeah, Half Life 2 had a nice way of providing health just when you need it the most. BioShock's system however killed any kind of suspense they were hoping to achieve. Thank god for that patch.
darkpaladinmfc
Member
Hard and No Vita-Chambers FTW. Although on Hard No-Vita I still found the game too easyGattsu25 said:
.Health regeneration is OK if justified. Checkpoints, I'm not sure. The best use of checkpoints in a FPS is Resistance, not a lot of them, but well placed.
I don't like med packs in most games because they can be found everywhere for no logic reason ... carrying a certain amount of health packs through a level is much better IMO, take them when you need them.
I don't like med packs in most games because they can be found everywhere for no logic reason ... carrying a certain amount of health packs through a level is much better IMO, take them when you need them.
BobJustBob
Member
Oneself said:
I hate you.
HyperZone<3
Member
I'm more of a hater of the two guns only rule. Lots of games have really nifty arsenals that you never get to use for more then just a little bit because you're pretty much effed if you drop any of the primary guns.
Two guns only sucks.
Two guns only sucks.