Blizzard said nope to this year.
http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/12070972/hearthstone-update-open-beta-19-12-2013
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Blizzard said nope to this year.
http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/12070972/hearthstone-update-open-beta-19-12-2013
All paying does is save you time from grinding cards. I hate when people say it's "pay to win". People that pay don't have access to anything that non-payers don't. There are plenty of people who have good cards simply from playing the game. MtG? Now THAT'S P2W.
In Free to Play terms, saving time by paying, which gives you an advantage (better cards) is pay to win.
I hate when people say it's not pay to win when paying buys you an advantage.
HappyHunting
Neo Member
No. Pay to win is when you pay for a net advantage that someone who does not pay cannot achieve. This is not that.
Exactly. If you've played a P2W game before, you'd know that this isn't one of them. Didn't Blizzard already say that 3-star master (the previous highest rank) was filled with mostly ppl who didn't pay any money? I can't remember the breakdown, but it was a large percentage.
Well I guess I don't understand the term "pay to win" then.
I don't know of any Free to Play game where a person can not attain the same advantages a paying person has through a much longer grind. So I guess I don't know of any "pay to win" games.
So remove that part of my post then. Your options to get better cards are still to grind it out slowly or pay.
Better cards will significantly increase your chances to win.
So change my post to say "pay for significant advantage". Feel better?
I'm back in. The balance tweaks they've made and the new ranked mode have me hooked again. I stopped playing a few months ago because at the time I did feel like it was pay to win as anything other than arena was filled with insanely stacked decks and to play the balanced mode (arena)...you had to pay.
Now ranked feels super competitive and fun and the games are pretty damn even.
Now ranked feels super competitive and fun and the games are pretty damn even.
RumblingRosco
Member
You guys are arguing semantics. The bottom line is that if two people start playing Hearthstone on the same day, but one spends $50 on packs and the other doesn't spend any money (but they spend the same amount of time playing), the player that spent money will have an advantage. Sure, the advantage is only temporary until the other player grinds out for cards, but it is still an advantage.
Call it whatever you want, but that's how the game works. How much of an advantage does a person buying packs have? Who knows, it's certainly helpful but it's not a guaranteed win by any means. Additionally, this is just the nature of trading card games, traditionally speaking.
Call it whatever you want, but that's how the game works. How much of an advantage does a person buying packs have? Who knows, it's certainly helpful but it's not a guaranteed win by any means. Additionally, this is just the nature of trading card games, traditionally speaking.
It's not pay to win in arena at all, is it?
No, there it's pay to play. If you are exclusively playing Arena it's tough to call it a free to play game.
I actually think they are starting to find a really good balance between the two.
RumblingRosco
Member
Personally, I think Arena is the way to go. You always get a pack (worth 100 gold on its own) and if you can get about 3 or 4 wins you should earn back at least 50 gold on average. If you get beyond 5+ wins you'll easily get more than 150 gold-worth of value from your Arena run.
Of course, if you just get 1 or 2 wins consistently in Arena, unless you enjoy it/want the practice, it's maybe more economical to just buy packs.
Minsc
Gold Member
Pretty much this. Where it's not uncommon for people to spend $100s or $1,000s on TCGs, it is in their nature to have the sort of system where you need to buy your way up the chain of cards. MtG is no different, and that is probably the most popular of all TCGs.
The fact that you can be highly competitive in this game without spending any money, despite it being a CCG, makes it F2P, not P2W. Some people are confusing the two. This is not P2W; people who have not spent any money on the game are able to make it to the top of the ladders with no inherent disadvantage over those who have. Players who spent money don't have more health, and the guy in the above example who spent $50 could easily have a worse collection of cards (via luck) after a week than the guy who spends nothing and finds 3 legendaries and 2 epics in a single pack.
Furthermore, the guy who spend $500 on hearthstone packs and is new to the game will probably still have a worse collection than the person who spent nothing and has played for a few thousand hours (or maybe even few hundred is more apt).
Well, someone wanted to know how to increase the quality of cards they have. I answered that. You either need to grind (which the person implied was not really desirable) or pay. If I am wrong about that then correct me.
I'm just not going to assume that everyone is super awesome and can beat cards that have significantly better value than basic cards. And to win against a person who has several of these cards that have significantly better value with your basic cards is a very tough battle. Call that whatever you want.
I think it's dishonest to suggest an average person can play for free and expect to evenly match a person who does pay without extreme luck or extreme grind. Even if they have extreme skill, they are overcoming significant card disadvantage -- it's not an even match.
Note: I really do enjoy Hearthstone a lot despite my issues with it. New wave of beta invites should help a lot with matching in lower rank. If you're enjoying this game, don't let any of what I'm saying discourage you from playing. Hearthstone really great and as more people get in as we get closer to release, the matching will just get better. This is totally worth your time.
I'm just not going to assume that everyone is super awesome and can beat cards that have significantly better value than basic cards. And to win against a person who has several of these cards that have significantly better value with your basic cards is a very tough battle. Call that whatever you want.
I think it's dishonest to suggest an average person can play for free and expect to evenly match a person who does pay without extreme luck or extreme grind. Even if they have extreme skill, they are overcoming significant card disadvantage -- it's not an even match.
Note: I really do enjoy Hearthstone a lot despite my issues with it. New wave of beta invites should help a lot with matching in lower rank. If you're enjoying this game, don't let any of what I'm saying discourage you from playing. Hearthstone really great and as more people get in as we get closer to release, the matching will just get better. This is totally worth your time.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
OH. MY. GOD.
Currently 8-1 living the dream. This deck is so based. Ragnaros, Two Earth Elementals, 1 Fire Ele, 3 Stormforged Axes, 2 Flametongue, 2 Feral Spirits, 3 Stampeding Kodos. Oh and a Molten Giant (had the option of the other giant too, but figured Molten is more reliable, especially with the way this deck plays.)
The curve is way whack peaking at 2 and 5, but if I survive the mid-game I win. Will definitely post a screenshot at 2 losses before I'm knocked out (or go 12, whichever).
Currently 8-1 living the dream. This deck is so based. Ragnaros, Two Earth Elementals, 1 Fire Ele, 3 Stormforged Axes, 2 Flametongue, 2 Feral Spirits, 3 Stampeding Kodos. Oh and a Molten Giant (had the option of the other giant too, but figured Molten is more reliable, especially with the way this deck plays.)
The curve is way whack peaking at 2 and 5, but if I survive the mid-game I win. Will definitely post a screenshot at 2 losses before I'm knocked out (or go 12, whichever).
As you saw the deck come together in your drafting process, did you just start giggling in happiness?
.If still available, please PM me. Thanks!
Im guessing Gurubashi? Got one to 26 once, wonderful card when you can get it fed
Done, enjoy!
noooooooooooooooooooooo
No
Northshire Cleric + Shields x3 + Divine Spirit x2 + Inner Fire
His Minions HP went
1/3
1/1 (damaged)
1/3 (healed it)
1/1 (damaged)
1/3 (healed it)
1/5 (shield)
1/5
1/7
1/8
1/16 (used a spirit)
1/32 (used a spirit)
32/32 (used Inner Fire)
Or something along those lines
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
As you saw the deck come together in your drafting process, did you just start giggling in happiness?
LOL. I was more concerned about lacking 3 and 4 drops.
Here is the deck (+ a forked lightning at the top you can't see):
Funnily enough as soon as I post that I go 8-1, I lose 2 in a row. One to a rush-ish Paladin and another to a Mage. Made a pretty big blunder vs. the Paladin though, otherwise I probably could have won.
Had that happen to me with a Twilight Drake that started out as a 4/8. Next turn it became a 32/32.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Next run. Deck not nearly as good, first game this asshole Paladin drops a Tirion with neither of my two Hexes in sight.
RumblingRosco
Member
As a Shaman, I love when this happens with Twilight Drakes. I'm like "LOL EARTHSHOCK" and you can just feel the tears flooding from the Priest (or, hell, any class that has buffs) as he just wasted 3-4 cards for nothing.
RumblingRosco
Member
For the record, I've gone 6-1 since making these changes, the only loss being in Unranked the first time I tested the deck out. Six straight wins in Ranked with this. Shaman decks are fun. I'm now a rank 14.
What rank are you guys/gals? I'm not sure if 14 is decent or not, but it seems not horrid. I'm probably winning 80% of my games overall since the patch in constructed.
EDIT: Sorry for the double-post.
Decided to spend a bit of gold on straight packs last night, and found it a bit tough to not spend all my gold! I was sitting at 900 and went down to 600. Gotta keep that arena buffer up, although lately I find myself stretching out my arena runs over several days instead of finishing them all in one go.
Got a replacement Harrison Jones... Might actually hold on to this one for posterity.
I also really like that the daily quests "stack" behind your active ones if you don't play for a while. I had 3 active quests last week, and immediately got 2 more after finishing a few of them Pretty awesome if you can't find the time to play for a little while.
Got a replacement Harrison Jones... Might actually hold on to this one for posterity.
I also really like that the daily quests "stack" behind your active ones if you don't play for a while. I had 3 active quests last week, and immediately got 2 more after finishing a few of them Pretty awesome if you can't find the time to play for a little while.
Earthshock is such a boner killer
quick question : does anyone know if the hidden ranking in "casuals" is independant for each class or is it one big ranking?
that's what I thought too but I kept getting destroyed with my somewhat decent Druid deck yesterday and as soon as I switched to my rogue deck (I rarely play rogue), I began to go against complete noobs who would always go for my face instead of my minions... weird
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
that seems like a reliable strategy
Haha, just keep in mind, as long as you learn a lesson it wasn't a waste of time/gold. Looks like you should reconsider your arena deck picking decision making.
beanman25
Member
Got swept, haha. Did a whopping 4 damage to the last guy.
thought I picked well, but apparently not.
Any sort of tips for making better picks?
Maybe I should play the AI offline with each class to get use to potential cards?
watch Trump and Kripp or any other good streamer do arena runs and hope they explain their picks, it really helps
Holy shit I hate Priests and their lame ultra heal decks
I hate them too, but at least you get to play something that isn't the Chinese Warlock deck for once...
Or Murlock rush decks. Ive lost to 4 in a row now. Ive only opened 3 card packs, but it seems the people im playing have opened 100, because they throw out legendaries and rares every turn
I know that feel, I miss being a student with time to play 10000 games a day
Murlocs are relatively cheap. You only need the murloc tribal cards (the Legendary is free) and a few rares. Rares aren't expensive. I've been in the Beta since October and I've got a very good collection at this point thanks to being able to do relatively well at Arena. (It's gotten much harder post-patch though.) It's not so much that people are "P2W-ing" as it is they've just got a time edge on collections.
So don't worry about it. Play casually, learn Arena, and do dailies. There's no rush- the ranks count for nothing right now.
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