Liferebooted
Banned
Wow, everyone I fight in arena is a damn priest.
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I don't even think the class is that good in arena (but that might be my win rate w/ pallys/mages talking, lol.) But its good draws/decks are pretty absurd. Light elemental or w/e is a monster, as is lightwell.
Liferebooted
Banned
They're destroying my basic rogue deck =[ lol Fought 5 in a row.
I can't win with pallies but I'm great with mages.
PillowKnight
Member
Yep, turn 1 cleric is a really weak play, and it'll cause you to lose vs decks that try to end the game before turn 5. It's basically a pray and hope your opponent doesn't have any early game removal or creatures. A late game cleric though is super strong, you can easily draw 6 or more cards if you combo it right.
On the other hand, turn one mind visions is incredibly op. It's completely non committal, gives you information about your opponents hand, and then either buffs up your early game by taking one of the minions they hope to play, or gives you an potential removal card that they won't be expecting. You guys are seriously undervaluing mind visions, it's the strongest turn 1 play in the game. The only weakness mind visions has is that it's completely useless if you get into a top deck war.
Priests are really easy mode to 9 win arena if you manage to draft a few mind visions/clerics/MCs.
No.
Er... The information is semi-symmetrical. The Priest knows about one card you have in your hand. You have a list of potential cards in the Priest's hand. By evaluating their play you can deduce which card they took, and Secrets are probably not very secret at all. You cannot possibly "not expect" a removal after they Mind Visioned you, and the case wouldn't be particularly different if Mind Vision was itself just another removal card like Shadow Word: Pain or Shadow Word: Death.
It doesn't "take away" their minion unless I'm misreading? It creates a copy, it doesn't steal their minion. Both players have the same amount of cards in their hand afterwards. If you Mind Vision a Priest, Warlock or Mage on turn 8, your chances of nabbing a Mind Control, a Jaraxxus and a Pyroblast are significantly higher than if you played it on turn 1, which is really no different from drawing another card, provided both decks are similar in construction and capabilities.
Personally, I think Mind Vision works best in the late game where it can give you more information relative to the size of their hand, and better drops because they will probably be saving their better drops in order to bait out SW
or MC. If you played Mind Vision on a Priest, Warlock or Mage on turn 7, the chances are significantly higher that you get a Mind Control, Jaraxxus, or Pyroblast than if you played it on turn 1. If you play it on turn 1, it is really no better than "Draw a Card" provided both decks are of equal construction, value and capability. If you play it on a Hunter, chances are you'll get a Beast. And a Beast being controlled by a Hunter is very different from a Beast being controlled by a Priest. This is true of many other archetypes and strategies.I mean, getting a Deadly Poison from Mind Vision is just lolworthy.
PillowKnight
Member
"Take" was the wrong word to use there. What I meant was, let's say you picked a mid game priest deck and didn't draft a lot of early game drops, when you mind visions turn one you will draw early game drops from rush decks that will help shore up your weakness, or great removal cards if your opponent is playing for mid/late game. It's not at all uncommon for people to hold onto holy novas/flame strikes/hex/poly in their starting hands as insurance to early game rush decks.Er... The information is semi-symmetrical. The Priest knows about one card you have in your hand. You have a list of potential cards in the Priest's hand. By evaluating their play you can deduce which card they took, and Secrets are probably not very secret at all. You cannot possibly "not expect" a removal after they Mind Visioned you, and the case wouldn't be particularly different if Mind Vision was itself just another removal card like Shadow Word: Pain or Shadow Word: Death.
It doesn't "take away" their minion unless I'm misreading? It creates a copy, it doesn't steal their minion. Both players have the same amount of cards in their hand afterwards.
Personally, I think Mind Vision works best in the late game where it can give you more information relative to the size of their hand, and better drops because they will probably be saving their better drops in order to bait out SW
As regards to your opponent being able to figure out what card you mind visions, it's easier said than done.
You're right about how saving mind visions can be extremely strong, the trade off to waiting though is that it doesn't give you any information about how your opponent is likely to play.
For the most part, people in Arena draft decks centered around the 3-5 cost, and even then, most players will mull away almost every 5+ card in their hand. Unless you see the 1/1 Charge Boar or Mirror Image in their opening hand using Mind Vision, it doesn't tell you much about what kind of deck you're facing. Arena is all about drafting the most consistent deck possible (goodstuff.dec), not any specific archetypes (unless you're really lucky with your draft). Being able to deduce a deck from a random deck from a single card is probably more difficult than deducing a single card from a pool of 3-4.
I would venture to say that a player willing to hold onto Holy Nova/Flame Strike in their opening hand probably won't really mind being hit by a Holy Nova/Flame Strike, because all their cards will survive it. Hex and Poly are more generalized, I'll give you that, but, again, decks that want removal in their opening hands aren't really vulnerable to removal in their early hands, just like how aggro decks will easily power through half-hearted aggro. You'll get a single fair, and that's a maybe, because the thing aggro decks dread most is the early Taunter, and they will be ready to play around that.
At 2 health, I think she'd be below average. I'd prefer to see something minor, like changing her ability to this: "Whenever a friendly minion is healed, draw a card." (That means her ability doesn't trigger when the Priest heals her, heals an enemy minion, or when the Priest's opponent heals a minion.)
I wasn't in the beta before she was buffed, so I had no experience with her when she used to cost 2. However, top players generally agreed she was a mediocre card back then.
That'd actually be a pretty great change. Either that or increase her cost to 2. There's just no way I can get a 3-damage minion out on turn 1, and if I get it out on turn 2 it won't have charge and he can shadow word/holy smite/whatever it easily.
PillowKnight
Member
I don't believe people pick simply the best cards in arena, and most of my 7+ runs agree with that(and most of my disastrous losses also agree with that). Early game rush decks seem to be the most successful, and they tend to counter the pick good stuff decks that don't bother to pick something with a good mana curve, or a ton of early game drops. The most reliable arena strats for me have been : 1) Play priest, 2) Pick a shitton of 2-3 drops. Seeing one of your opponent's starting hand can reveal something about tempo of the deck your opponent is playing.
I'm not saying that you mindvision a hunter on turn 1 and then suddenly realize he's playing a UTH combo deck in arena. But if you play a hunter and you mind visions him turn 1 and reveal a hyena and on his turn 1 he drops a 1/1 shitty windufury minion, you'll suddenly react to that minion in a much more urgent and different manner than you would otherwise;dropping a 3/2 or a 1/2 here could be the least effective play but it would normally be the standard play . I can't really go case by case explaining how having information about an opponent's opening hand is extremely useful...but in my experience there are so many cases where this has been the case.
Knowing what your opponent has allows you to play a smarter game, and your opponent having to guess what you has forces him to play a better game to beat you.
Wait how does that even work?
Let me tell you about spell damage rogues...
That, Arcane Shot, and E trap are literally the only things he can hit you with, lol.
Just went 9-1 in Arena with what I thought was a jank Mage deck. 0 Flamestrikes. 0 Pyroblasts. ONE Fireball. ONE Polymorph. This is my third straight night of successful Arena runs and I think I've figured out why I used to go 0-3 and 1-3 so much, but now win steadily:
I now go for the face much more often.
Think about it like this: if your opponent is going to trade their 3/2 with your 3/2 next turn anyway, why in the world would you NOT stick 3 damage in his face first? Don't make the trade if you laid your minion first - get some damage out of it and make HIM force the trade.
It's possible, especially with a Pal, that some some of combat stunt could make you wish you had traded, if he buffs the minion or whatever. But you should have an equal amount of stunts up your own sleeve throughout a game, & experience + current mana levels should give you a rough idea of what to expect and when.
Additionally, and this is a little Mage-specific - don't overlook Frost Nova, Cone of Cold, and Blizzard! I once held a Frost Nova and Blizzard in my hand and thought I was going to lose. Had a 4/4 and 4/2 on the board. But then I realized that I had 24 mostly unanswerable damage! Swing for 8, Frost Nova. Swing for 8, Blizzard. Then swing for 8 more. Enemies are dead by turn 7 and don't even know what happened. In the event that the board state changes, you can always opt to trade minions on that final turn.
I now go for the face much more often.
Think about it like this: if your opponent is going to trade their 3/2 with your 3/2 next turn anyway, why in the world would you NOT stick 3 damage in his face first? Don't make the trade if you laid your minion first - get some damage out of it and make HIM force the trade.
It's possible, especially with a Pal, that some some of combat stunt could make you wish you had traded, if he buffs the minion or whatever. But you should have an equal amount of stunts up your own sleeve throughout a game, & experience + current mana levels should give you a rough idea of what to expect and when.
Additionally, and this is a little Mage-specific - don't overlook Frost Nova, Cone of Cold, and Blizzard! I once held a Frost Nova and Blizzard in my hand and thought I was going to lose. Had a 4/4 and 4/2 on the board. But then I realized that I had 24 mostly unanswerable damage! Swing for 8, Frost Nova. Swing for 8, Blizzard. Then swing for 8 more. Enemies are dead by turn 7 and don't even know what happened. In the event that the board state changes, you can always opt to trade minions on that final turn.
. Maybe wait for the expansion?Officerrob
Banned
First time playing arena and I get 5 straight priests, fuck that shit
Raising the max deck size is no simple matter. You'd have to raise the starting hand to compensate (so that games aren't completely inconsistent. Drawing 3/30 is different from drawing 3/40). And then you'd need more spells for every kind of basic archetype that exists so far.
Example: Any single deck can run a maximum of 17 Murlocs, 2 of which most decks eschew because of its Battlecry (each player draws 2). For a deck of 30, this means 1 in 2 cards will be a Murloc, which is important for basically every Murloc that works with other Murlocs. In a deck of 40, this means almost 1-3 will be a Murloc, so 66% of the deck will be non-Murloc cards that don't work with the Murloc buffers. If the maximum deck size were raised, Murlocs deck would become very weak until Blizzard makes some new Murlocs. You can apply the same logic to Beasts, Spell Damage, etc. Only generalized "play stuff, win" decks would be unaffected by the shift to 40 cards.
It would also be an indirect buff to Warlocks because they can Life Tap more aggressively. Life Tap is already the best Hero Power in a vacuum and such a change would make it even stronger.
Example: Any single deck can run a maximum of 17 Murlocs, 2 of which most decks eschew because of its Battlecry (each player draws 2). For a deck of 30, this means 1 in 2 cards will be a Murloc, which is important for basically every Murloc that works with other Murlocs. In a deck of 40, this means almost 1-3 will be a Murloc, so 66% of the deck will be non-Murloc cards that don't work with the Murloc buffers. If the maximum deck size were raised, Murlocs deck would become very weak until Blizzard makes some new Murlocs. You can apply the same logic to Beasts, Spell Damage, etc. Only generalized "play stuff, win" decks would be unaffected by the shift to 40 cards.
It would also be an indirect buff to Warlocks because they can Life Tap more aggressively. Life Tap is already the best Hero Power in a vacuum and such a change would make it even stronger.
I'd really like for them to take a hard look at Hero powers. Only a few really seem like "good ideas" for repetitive buttoms.
I agree with Kibler when he said that the Hero Powers are/will be a huge problem. I don't know how I'd go about balancing them though.
I think changing the costs around would be a good place to start.
you have to learn what to play around out of which classes. Its a rough learning curve.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Depending on your class you'll want to save a spell or two to take out the high dmg/hp minions. For example, with rogue you have assassinate. Mage has fireball. Warlock has shadow bolt. Druid has starfire. Combine the damage ones with a weak minions attack and you can drop most minions. Or have some spell damage buffs on the field to take them out only using spells.
There are also big game hunter, which is a neutral rare that has battlecry: kill target with 7 or more attack. Probably a couple other ways like cards with poison etc.
There is, but it might just not be enough. People who dug through the files already discovered that there will be rank rewards. Give it some time.
Probably, unless they flat out buff a card.Do they always temporarily increase a card's dust value after it has been changed? My only Legendary is that dipshit, if the above is the case it'd probably be worth keeping him for now.
michaelius
Banned
Do they always temporarily increase a card's dust value after it has been changed? My only Legendary is that dipshit, if the above is the case it'd probably be worth keeping him for now.
Only if it's nerfed. So if it's crap that probably won't happen.
That sadly makes sense. I'll still hold onto him for now, it's not like I desperately need those lousy 400 dust.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Does the color of the crystal inside the card represent its rareness?
I just opened a pack and got one blue (magic?) and one purple (epic?). Am I understanding things right?
Legendary > Epic > Rare > Magic > Basic ?
I just opened a pack and got one blue (magic?) and one purple (epic?). Am I understanding things right?
Legendary > Epic > Rare > Magic > Basic ?
Yes, purple means epic, but there's no such thing as a 'magic' rarity. Blue is just rare and legendary is orange. So the order would be:
Legendary > Epic > Rare > Common > Basic (the ones w/o a crystal you get for free)
the problem I have are board wipes - talking about arena specifically. I'm seriously tired of being stopped dead on the tracks by a 2 or 4 damage wipes. I'm not even overextending either, both players pretty much share the same minions pool and I have to trade blows every turn against a good opponent. One well-placed board wipe and it's nearly impossible to come back. Doesn't help that 80-90% of your cards are minions in arena
Going to play mages now like everyone else
Impeccable
Member
I just want a play arena. FUCK.
Constructed is so uninteresting to me.
Constructed is so uninteresting to me.
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