freenudemacusers
Member
I meant the seahawks, I try to keep my montana location on the dl
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Heat Bandwagon-Cam @ United Center
- Thread starter joelseph
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Gentleman Jack
Member
Is it bandwagoning if I'm from LA and a football team inherits a Stanford player so I root for them as long as my guy gets minutes? I need clarity here.
SteveWinwood
Member
You do whatever you want and enjoy.
I just won't understand it.
And I definitely don't have to so whatevs :shrug:
You get enjoyment. You're operating under the assumption that suffering through the bad times for your sports team means you enjoy the good times more; I am not at all convinced that's true. Maybe it is, but it also might just be a justification for your own behavior patterns.
It seems just as if not more likely to me that bandwagon fans extract the happiness/fun out of sports without suffering the sadness/frustration.
The reason it is denigrated is because the entire exercise of rooting for professional sports is an emotional exercise. That is the basis of rooting for a team. The idea of ignoring the shitty parts and only focusing on the good parts is absolutely counter to the definition of a being a fan. Again, it's like taking middle school history.
I mean, Jesus, if I only care about watching a good product, you shouldn't follow a single team. That is why you are an observer.
Also, you seem to think that there is a direct association with "enjoyment" and "watching sports."
Here's the news. There's a point where you take sports too seriously to where it's actually miserable and terrible to watch. I actually recently had a similar conversation with a few friends. We are miserable sports fans. The sting of defeat or failure is more stressful than the release I get from victories. During the two playoff games last season, my teeth were clenched so tight that my jaw was sore the next day. It is stupid how stressed out I was prior to all the Braves playoff games, and I didn't expect to win the series at all. That's right, I was fine with losing because I thought we were a full season ahead of schedule - and the injuries of course - but I was a miserable wreck. You ask Cygnus, Eternal, Windu, etc., and I'm sure they'd say the same at this point.
yup. i can only hope the people on the screen get as much out of this as I do
Do you play all video games on the easiest mode and/or enable god mode so you only get to experience the good parts?
CoffeeJanitor
Member
You would be a fan of that player, then. For instance, there were a metric ton of Ricky Rubio fans that started to follow the Timberwolves during his rookie year. I'm not going to disparage them, they're supporting a player they like. Just like I cheer for past Timberwolves who are traded to different teams.
That is your basis, personally. It is not the basis. Or, put differently, people experience emotions differently, and the way they experience them is not better or worse than your way. It isn't like rationality -- reason has discrete outcomes where certain positions are better than others. We could also look at this ethically, which falls somewhere in between (reasonable people can often reasonably agree on ethical decisions). Emotions, on the other hand, can manifest different ways for different people without there being a "correct" way to go about it.
Some people hear Beethoven's music and are emotionally lifted; others listen to the same piece of music and have a very different emotional reaction, if they have one at all. None of these are in themselves correct or better than any other, and I certainly wouldn't malign someone who has different emotional responses than I do.
It is the consensus of sports fans that you are a crappy fan if you only come around for the good shit and run away when things turn south.
If you watch "because you enjoy the sport," then don't claim to be a Cards fan. I love college football, but I've never claimed a team. I watch it as much as any other sport. I vaguely root for Northwestern as it is my alma mater, but I spend just as much time making fun of them.
It's sort of a tricky question for me to answer, because my most played games by far are Chess and Go. However, the reason I play those games is because they are hard, so the answer is "I play them on the hardest setting I can," generally.
However, I typically play those games because they are intellectually stimulating; I do not enjoy escapism. I see where you're going with this, Branduil, but I happen to be a fairly unique case and I'm not a particularly good test subject for your point.
Argumentum ad populum.
And as stated in our previous discussion, if this is your operational definition, that's fine. In that case, you cannot claim to be a baseball fan. I am one, by your definition, but you aren't. I'm a baseball fan, while you are a Braves fan. I do not see how that makes your approach better.
Sure, but my point is, bandwagoners are almost always like people who use a game genie to beat Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the NES, and then come on GAF and make fun of someone who can't beat the dam level legitimately.
But why play games that are hard? Wouldn't it be more rational to play easy games? You would always win, and win quickly, so you would get your enjoyment and have spare time to do more productive things.
Dougstyles
Banned
The Patriots gave me two of the worst days of my life as a sports fan.
Show me this blurry video when I'm 90 without any description and I'll tell you exactly what it is with a big fucking grin on my face.
Let's take a poll of sports-GAF, Opiate. Or even all Cardinals fans.
Nonsense. My assertion doesn't make the contrapositive true.
I watch the sport, I played the sport, and I enjoy the stadium experience. I am a fan of watching Major League Baseball I've gone to more Cubs games than Braves games in the last 7 years largely due to my residence. Emotional investment due to fond and scarring memories does not prevent me from watching Anthony Rizzo strike out 4 times.
Doesn't your analogy suggest bandwagon fans are coming in here and making fun of non-bandwagon fans? Or am I crossing wires here? You seem to be suggesting that the bandwagon fans (i.e. the people who beat TMNT with the game genie) are coming on GAF and making fun of non-bandwagoners (i.e. the people who do not use the game genie).
If that were to occur, I'd completely agree with you, but I'm seeing the opposite. I'm seeing the non-bandwagoners making fun of the bandwagoners, not the other way around.
If my goal was purely escapist pleasure, I would completely agree. It's why I'm not a particularly good test subject; I attempt (attempt, at least) to derive intellectual value out of Chess and Go.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I don't really mind as much. I grow up in a city where the people tend to stick with the team through good and bad (Denver Broncos. Only time I saw much bandwagoning was when the Rockies went through that insane run...then got promptly stomped by Boston. Then the city went back to ignoring them (As they should). But I think you can only truly enjoy the highs when you've been in the lows of lows.
I'm seeing a single bandwagoner insulting the intelligence of sports fans by effectively calling us mindless neanderthals incapable of rational thought in the realm of athletics
.
Listen, you are the only person in the world who thinks that bandwagoning is something to be admired, you're wrong. Face it.
That's what's happening in this thread. If you posted in NBA-GAF, for instance, you'd have seen the endless stream of Miami Heat fans that coincidentally popped up the moment Lebron signed with them, and constantly make ridiculous arguments and posts.
The premise of this thread is mockery of bandwagoners. I have explicitly, repeatedly and deliberately insisted that it's fine to not be a bandwagoners.
Right here.
And right here.
And less directly right here.
I'll repeat it one more time for extra-super emphasis; it's completely fine to be a non-bandwagoner. No one can be completely rational all the time. We're human. However, that doesn't mean that being a non-bandwagoner is good or better than the alternative.
I think the simplest way to put this (knowing you're skeptical of the notion) is:
Would a great success like a championship would leave less of a mark on a fan who only casually latches onto the team rather than on a fan who lives and dies with the team year after year? That former fan will certainly enjoy it in that time and moment, but are they going to really enjoy that memory as much as the latter fan?
This is not exactly a one-to-one comparison, but someone young like Lorde winning a Grammy would be dramatically different than someone who's had a Downey-esque slump to his/her career without the climax.
The implication that you are being rational while the rest of us are not is why you garner a strong reaction, Oppy.
I find it bizarre that you're simply doubling down on the argumentum ad populum.
A) Lots of people think this.
B) This is an argumentum ad populum, which is invalid argumentation.
A) No, a whole lot of people think this.
B) Which is still an argumentum ad populum.
A) You don't understand. Almost everyone thinks this.
Do you think the argument becomes less invalid because you double down or even triple down?
Now this strikes me as the most reasonable argument against my position. I agree, it's possible that someone who watches every game will extract more enjoyment when a team finally wins. I'm not convinced it's true, though. That can be the sort of justification people give themselves; "well, I probably enjoy it more!" But it's possible.
But that still doesn't justify denigrating those who approach it differently and extract enjoyment using a different approach. We'd still need to ask, for example, who has the higher opportunity cost.
This isn't a philosophical argument. It's an argument over the definition of a fan, which we have and know. It is not a shifting or transitional subject.
freenudemacusers
Member
I think it's fine to be a bandwagoner, a purchased ticket/logo'd item is a purchased ticket/logo'd item.
SlackAdjuster
Member
As a passionate sports fan, (and many of you are comparing this stuff to things that are not sports which is apples and oranges) the worst for me are the people who root for your home teams rival while being born and raised there. Attention whores.
They might not be coming in here, but I have met numerous people in real life who do exactly that. They insult people and are generally rude and obnoxious because their team is currently doing well (usually better than the team of the person they are talking to, because they only root for teams that are doing well at the time). Banter and trash talk are incredibly prevalent among sports fans, and bandwagon fans are basically playing with cheat codes.
If you can attempt to derive intellectual value from chess, you can attempt to derive intellectual value from sport.
You (And others) have explicitly stated that your position is not rational, that it is based on emotional and (as others have stated, but not you) significantly influenced by tribalism.
I mean, I don't even have to imply this is the situation. It has been stated outright, and not just by me.
There's no rule saying that bandwagoners can't become decent fans down the road.
'80s-'90s bandwagoners got to suffer through Chandler/Curry.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
why do people even like sport
Kano on the Phone
Member
It's tribalism and the tribe is always going to look down on someone who doesn't appear to be a part of the tribe. That's really all it is. As someone who went through the initiation of being a part of this tribe, I will always frown on someone who walks in, having been through none of the trials and tribulations, and claims to be as much of a member as I am.
It's rational on a very basic level because if I'm in the trenches, I want to know that the guy next to me is has been through the same hell that I have and is as committed and trustworthy as I am, so I know he's one of the "good guys" and I can trust him. It's the same instinct. On a very real level, someone who walks in once the war is over and celebrates victory is not having the same experience as someone who fought it. You can argue better or worse, but that's subjective. Objectively, they won't be considered part of the tribe and therefore can't possibly have the same experience as I do.
If them believing they're having the same experience can be considered equal to mine actually having it is a completely different conversation...
It's a completely rational way of thinking that's deeply ingrained on us, but we don't fight tribal wars, so this is how it comes out.
Cheer up the Jaguars have won 4 out of 5.
freenudemacusers
Member
there are a lot of unbearable sports fans of all stripes.
It's more about the fact the franchise made huge huge stacks of $$$ from "bandwagon" fans around the world during the Jordan era. To snipe at others for it looks silly.
That said, there was one guy on a car forum I used to post on back in the late 90's who had huge animated GIFs in his signature of the New York Yankees, Dallas Cowboys, and Chicago Bulls. I rolled my eyes so hard I dislocated them.
Because it hurts us, beats us, depresses us and then gives us a slight glimmer of hope before crushing it yet again.
Who says sadomasochism is a 20th century development?
Devolution
Member
To some people: you don't have to be from a place to be a fan of a particular team, especially if you're living in a state sans any teams. Or you're international.
Well, those personal experiences are exactly why everyone has such a strong reaction towards these bandwagon fans.
If they went to games for a different team every year, bought jerseys for every player in the league, etc., they'd get nothing more than light ribbing and puzzled looks from people.
It's when they go around and start telling everyone that their team sucks and they're fools for rooting for them, that people object.
I don't think there is such a thing as "just sports." If you're a fan, it's a part of your life. I can tell you that when I sat there in the stands screaming until the last second when Wake Forest shut out FSU at home, I was in a really bad place. It was not "just sports." It's about being passionate and truly caring. Typically, bandwagon fans don't ever experience the same level of this since they're only there for the good.
Dougstyles
Banned
This is the truth. As a very casual NBA fan I bandwagon the Heat for a cheap thrill. I wisely keep my mouth shut because I know jack shit about the game, and I know I know jack shit about the game.
And to back up my previous point, I felt more satisfaction from Indy's win over the Niners earlier this season than from Miami's two Finals victories combined.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Arent you a Cowboy fan?
I know a few people who do this, damn contrarians
Yep, the Rangers in particular have benefited a lot from this in the past few years. I don't actually have that much of a problem with bandwagoners, but it still feels disingenuous.
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