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Heavenly Sword - PS3. Not quite 120 fps...

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SolidSnakex said:
nd8dv.jpg
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Speedtree, a middleware thingy, is more detailed in the texture department.
 
irfan said:
Its news to you because you dont realise when and how you troll. ;)

And I'm no mod to see how many trolls are there and take care of them individually.
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So I troll because I believe that the physics on HS can't be done on 360. Seems like you consider trolling any opinion you really don't like.
 
Confidence Man said:
I have yet to see any textures in PS3 games that match Perfect Dark Zero's or Kameo's. Can I assume they can't be done on PS3?
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Textures....really now? The variable textures sizes...not somehow doable on PS3...using PDZ and Kameo?
 
fortified_concept said:
So I troll because I believe that the physics on HS can't be done on 360. Seems like you consider trolling any opinion you really don't like.
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That's not an opinion. It's either something that's true or it's not. And if you don't actually know what the heck you're talking about, hmm...
 
Confidence Man said:
Sorry, until I see them I have the right to assume they can't be done on PS3.
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This argument will really get us nowhere ... but I do find it to be a bit weak for several reasons:

1) From a detail (resolution) standpoint, there have been some examples on PS3 that I do believe compete. Since there really haven't been any 360 examples doing either exotic tecture effects, or layering an absurd amount of effects - I would argue that resolution (and possibly variety) is the the best indicator right now.

2) The games you mention are using relatively simple shader effects that we KNOW are doable on the PS3. It isn't a question of not having seen them yet - they have been demonstrated on the GPU family already, and are known effects based on the RSX spec. As I stated, it's simply an art choice. For example, many of the textures that standout in Perfect Dark, stand out because they are an 'in your face' effect. Effects such as bump-mapping, etc. seemed to be the majority of stuff shown.

3) You mention 2 games out of how many 360 titles? Obviously that is because they are the best in regards to textures. There are a lot less PS3 games that have been shown, and obviously many are no where near complete – so it’s not really an apples to apples comparison. If anything, that makes the overall argument regarding Heavenly Sword doing what it does stronger.

4) Kameo specifically is a special case. That game has had a longer gestation period than practically any game – ever. With that, the majority of the level design was already there – as well as the gameplay and core asset design. Almost it’s entire 360 development time was spent on engine design and asset creation. Also, Rare obviously had dev HW and tools as early as any 360 dev.
 
Scottlarock said:
what? are you serious? do a few searches.... sony made it clear their system was coming out a few months after the 360... even MAJOR newspapers said their system got delayed in the USA.... do some research.... I remember walking into a liquer store with USA today saying PS3 delayed in the upper right hand corner. no where ever did it say japan only. sheesh!
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:lol

Because major papers said it - it must be true? SONY NEVER STATED IT WOULD COME OUT IN APRIL IN THE WEST to my knowledge.

Just because aggressive reports jumped to conclusions, that doesn't mean shit. Point me to any western developer that stated they were developing under the assumption the PS3 would be out in April as a hard deadline?
 
Speevy said:
That's not an opinion. It's either something that's true or it's not. And if you don't actually know what the heck you're talking about, hmm...
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What are you talking about? How can I proove something like this except looking at the games we have at hand? You need a mathematical proof or something? Measure the Mhz needed to animate Nariko's hair or something? You sound like a republican arguing about global warming.
 
Onix said:
:lol

Because major papers said it - it must be true? SONY NEVER STATED IT WOULD COME OUT IN APRIL IN THE WEST to my knowledge.

Just because aggressive reports jumped to conclusions, that doesn't mean shit. Point me to any western developer that stated they were developing under the assumption the PS3 would be out in April as a hard deadline?
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worldwide launch. btw everyone pretty much new sony was fibbin... do some searches on this forum you visit. their was some banning bets saying it would launch in spring.
 
fortified_concept said:
What are you talking about? How can I proove something like this except looking at the games we have at hand? Measure the Mhz needed to animate Nariko's hair? You sound like a republican arguing about global warming.
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"I believe" and "This is my opinion". Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. I don't claim to know what it takes to make Heavenly Sword do what it does. However, your only basis for believing what you do is some blind faith in the 360's inadequacy.

Quit while you're behind. You can't prove your case. If you put every Xbox 360 game up and examined every texture, polygon, bit of lighting, physics, and cloth, you still wouldn't be able to prove what you're arguing. The 360 hasn't proved its peak, and Heavenly Sword (as you were gracious enough to point out) sure isn't the PS3's.

So just stop it.
 
I wonder if we'll get one thread about a exclusive PS3 game before November
'09
that doesn't devolve into a limped dick fear and loathing "my platform is better than your platform" circle jerk. For spoony sake people!

Oh, on topic sorry. $600 lol amirite?!
 
Onix said:
This argument will really get us nowhere ... but I do find it to be a bit weak for several reasons:

1) From a detail (resolution) standpoint, there have been some examples on PS3 that I do believe compete. Since there really haven't been any 360 examples doing either exotic tecture effects, or layering an absurd amount of effects - I would argue that resolution (and possibly variety) is the the best indicator right now.

2) The games you mention are using relatively simple shader effects that we KNOW are doable on the PS3. It isn't a question of not having seen them yet - they have been demonstrated on the GPU family already, and are known effects based on the RSX spec. As I stated, it's simply an art choice. For example, many of the textures that standout in Perfect Dark, stand out because they are an 'in your face' effect. Effects such as bump-mapping, etc. seemed to be the majority of stuff shown.

3) You mention 2 games out of how many 360 titles? Obviously that is because they are the best in regards to textures. There are a lot less PS3 games that have been shown, and obviously many are no where near complete – so it’s not really an apples to apples comparison. If anything, that makes the overall argument regarding Heavenly Sword doing what it does stronger.

4) Kameo specifically is a special case. That game has had a longer gestation period than practically any game – ever. With that, the majority of the level design was already there – as well as the gameplay and core asset design. Almost it’s entire 360 development time was spent on engine design and asset creation. Also, Rare obviously had dev HW and tools as early as any 360 dev.
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Jesus.

I was mocking his idiotic comment. I didn't expect anyone to try and demonstrate why it's a dumb thing to say.
 
Speevy said:
"I believe" and "This is my opinion". Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. I don't claim to know what it takes to make Heavenly Sword do what it does. However, your only basis for believing what you do is some blind faith in the 360's inadequacy.

Quit while you're behind. You can't prove your case. If you put every Xbox 360 game up and examined every texture, polygon, bit of lighting, physics, and cloth, you still wouldn't be able to prove what you're arguing. The 360 hasn't proved its peak, and Heavenly Sword (as you were gracious enough to point out) sure isn't the PS3's.

So just stop it.
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I don't have to proove my case that way. The difference in physics is quite obvious between PS3 and 360 games. And what do you mean by "360 hasn't prooved its peak"? Do I have to wait till 2010 to express my opinion? Current games aren't enough?
 
Confidence Man said:
Jesus.

I was mocking his idiotic comment. I didn't expect anyone to try and demonstrate why it's a dumb thing to say.
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ROFFLE everyone attacked you :lol
 
fortified_concept said:
I don't have to proove my case that way. The difference in physics is quite obvious between PS3 and 360 games. And what do you mean by "360 hasn't prooved its peak"? Do I have to wait till 2010 to express my opinion? Current games aren't enough?
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You're pretty much nuts, ya know that?
 
Scottlarock said:
okay it was all a lucid dream. No one thought it was launching in spring. I now laugh at the newspapers, sony didnot lead them on.
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Actually, I don't think Sony did lead them on.


No one previous to E3 expected Sony to do a world-wide launch, since they have never attempted it - that, and most would argue the 360 world-wide launch was a disaster.


With that in mind, when Sony merely stated the PS3 would launch in April a while back - I can't think of any serious gaming source that interpreted that to mean anything but Japan.


Should Sony have been more explicit? Maybe. However, this is hardly a situation isolated to Sony and the PS3 launch. Gaming PR reports are often misinterpreted by the general media - but understood by the gaming media since they have the history or knowledge base to properly interpret the intent.


To say Sony purposely lead people on seems to be a stretch. While it’s possible, there is no evidence of this … and what happened seems to be a relatively common occurrence.




Confidence Man,

:lol Sorry - I read your post fast and thought is was a serious comment. My bad!
 
fortified_concept said:
I don't have to proove my case that way. The difference in physics is quite obvious between PS3 and 360 games. And what do you mean by "360 hasn't prooved its peak"? Do I have to wait till 2010 to express my opinion? Current games aren't enough?
Click to expand...

What in gods name are you talking about?
 
fortified_concept said:
I don't have to proove my case that way. The difference in physics is quite obvious between PS3 and 360 games. And what do you mean by "360 hasn't prooved its peak"? Do I have to wait till 2010 to express my opinion? Current games aren't enough?
Click to expand...

:lol
 
Fact is PS3 is better at physics compared to 360. President of Ageia, Mark Rein of Epic and a bunch of other people have said that. How much better? We will have to wait and see…
 
davepoobond said:
how many games were 60 fps that launched with any console?
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I don't think it matters, since you shouldn't compare the old systems' trends to the new ones'. It'd be like saying "Nintendo 64's gonna sell the mostest and have the bestest third party support 'cause the same happened to SNES" and stuff.

If Google didn't lie to me, most PS2 launch games ran at 60 fps.
 
Well, the 360's already done cloth physics. I'm playing that game right now. I guess he thinks 360 can't do boxes getting knocked over. *cue walking through watermelons and swords as they clang and flop around beside you in Oblivion*
 
There is NO DOUBT the PS3 is capable of better physics than 360 - that is simply a fact.


To say Heavenly Sword's physics can't be done on 360 though, that's something entirely different (and wrong).
 
Onix said:
There is NO DOUBT the PS3 is capable of better physics than 360 - that is simply a fact.


To say Heavenly Sword's physics can't be done on 360 though, that's something entirely different (and wrong).
Click to expand...

We don't know what th HS engine is capable of to the full extent. So far we have only seen is a small arena with a lot of interactive physics and to be honest there isn't a single 360 game right now that does hair, rag doll, object physics like HS...

AND keep in mind they haven't shown the army battles yet....
 
Doom_Bringer said:
We don't know what th HS engine is capable of to the full extent. So far we have only seen is a small arena with a lot of interactive physics and to be honest there isn't a single 360 game right now that does hair, rag doll, object physics like HS...
Click to expand...



Oblivion does ragdoll and object physics, Table Tennis does hair and cloth.

But again, there's not another PS3 game that does those things exactly like Heavenly Sword, so it's not worth debating.

If the developers say the PS3 has a physics advantage, it has a physics advantage. I haven't seen it yet, however, aside from maybe the burning cigarette in MGS4. Unlike fortified_concept, I am not denying its existence.
 
Onix said:
There is NO DOUBT the PS3 is capable of better physics than 360 - that is simply a fact.


To say Heavenly Sword's physics can't be done on 360 though, that's something entirely different (and wrong).
Click to expand...

My whole logic comes to this: Till I see it I don't believe it. And like I said I still haven't seen a 360 game doing what HS does. When I do I'll shut up. But my logic although faulty is much better than some of xbox fans here:

-I know it can do it
-Why?
-BECAUSE I KNOW IT!
 
Speevy said:
Oblivion does ragdoll and object physics, Table Tennis does hair and cloth.

But again, there's not another PS3 game that does those things exactly like Heavenly Sword, so it's not worth debating.
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Neither oblivion nor table tennis do physics like HS. The physics in HS are very intensive and the game pushes those physics at a locked frame rate with minimal hitches (the e3 demo)...so yea those game don't compare...

and yes we know that not all ps3 games are physics intensive however a simple fact is that Cell is great at physics so in the future we will see many games with great physics on the ps3.....



If the developers say the PS3 has a physics advantage, it has a physics advantage. I haven't seen it yet, however, aside from maybe the burning cigarette in MGS4. Unlike fortified_concept, I am not denying its existence.
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none of us have seen anything yet. Lets get some hands on the system first....
 
Speevy said:
Oblivion does ragdoll and object physics, Table Tennis does hair and cloth.
Click to expand...


If only we could combine these two games into one...

Speevy said:
But again, there's not another PS3 game that does those things exactly like Heavenly Sword, so it's not worth debating.

If the developers say the PS3 has a physics advantage, it has a physics advantage. I haven't seen it yet, however, aside from maybe the burning cigarette in MGS4. Unlike fortified_concept, I am not denying its existence.
Click to expand...

Haven't seen the advantage? Have you seen the Naughty Dog game trailer? And the cigarette is the only amazing thing you saw in MGS4 as far as physics is conserned? OK how can I take you seriously now?
 
fortified_concept said:
My whole logic comes to this: Till I see it I don't believe it. And like I said I still haven't seen a 360 game doing what HS does. When I do I'll shut up. But my logic although faulty is much better than some of xbox fans here:

-I know it can do it
-Why?
-BECAUSE I KNOW IT!
Click to expand...

Suppose, for a second, that the Xbox 360 has 50% of the PS3's power. Unless Heavenly Sword uses more than that, it can be done on the 360.

Now, do you think that a launch game is using more than 50% of the PS3’s power? And do you honestly believe that the Xbox 360 is that weak?
 
fortified_concept said:
-I know it can do it
-Why?
-BECAUSE I KNOW IT!
Click to expand...




No, it's pretty much just as illogical. I'm not saying the 360 has some magical potential and if you believe it will unlock the capabilities! Believe me, I got sick enough of listening to that line about a certain other system.

I am saying that proclaiming any system is outright incapable of this or that at this stage of the game amounts to lunacy. Do I think the PS3 is more powerful than the 360? Yes, because it's been firmly established. What exactly that means has NOT been firmly established, least of all by you.
 
fortified_concept said:
If only we could combine these two games into one...
Click to expand...

Explain to me why you can't. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Haven't seen the advantage? Have you seen the Naughty Dog game trailer? And the cigarette is the only amazing thing you saw in MGS4 as far as physics is conserned? OK how can I take you seriously now?
Click to expand...


Yeah, I've seen that stuff. MGS4 is absolutely amazing looking. Modeling, animation, everything. I think the game pulverizes any other PS3 game, to be honest. But that part stuck out for a physics demonstration, because it's in both videos (the unveiling and the newer one).
 
Speevy said:
Explain to me why you can't. You're digging yourself deeper and deeper. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
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I'm making fun of the fact that xbox fans are pointing out games that can do individual physics effects similar to HS's but can't find a game that does everything at the same time. It's stupid mentioning that eg. Half-Life2 is doing barrel physics like some other xbox fan mentioned earlier. WHO CARES? Can it do everything HS is doing at the same time? NO. Stop making me repeat myself read my previous posts and btw stop making it that personal. Last but not least also read Doom_Bringer's latest post.

Speevy said:
Yeah, I've seen that stuff. MGS4 is absolutely amazing looking. Modeling, animation, everything. I think the game pulverizes any other PS3 game, to be honest. But that part stuck out for a physics demonstration, because it's in both videos (the unveiling and the newer one).
Click to expand...

So your statement still stands that the only physics advantage you've seen yet for PS3 is the burning cigarette. OK, bye.
 
fortified_concept said:
I'm making fun of the fact that xbox fans are pointing out games that can do individual physics effects similar to HS's but can't find a game that does everything at the same time. It's stupid mentioning that eg. Half-Life2 is doing barrel physics like some other xbox fan mentioned earlier. WHO CARES? Can it do everything HS is doing at the same time? NO. Stop making me repeat myself read my previous posts and btw stop making it that personal. Last but not least also read Doom_Bringer's latest post.



So your statement still stands that the only physics advantage you've seen yet for PS3 is the burning cigarette. OK, bye.
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How you escaped the Sony defense Force tag I will never know.
 
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