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Heavenly Sword update (56k Go Away)

From how it was explained in the recent Edge article, there's sort of two seperate fighting engines that each have their own nuances and dramatically affect how the game is played. There's your small scale DMC/GoW/NG style of fighting, and the large scale epic Dynasty Warriors style fighting. Both styles have very interactive environments with physics based objects that can be used for and against you. It wasnt explained yet how these seperate aspects will mesh together exactly during the course of the game, just that there will be some noticeable differences in feel, including the enemy AI which takes a more "squad based" (their term) approach during the larger scale battles. One niftly little aspect is certain squad members will actually have friends on the battlefield and react differently (anger/fear etc) if you take out one of their amigos during combat. Encouragingly NT's been emphasizing that its not a button masher, and are aiming for a deep combat engine focusing on timing and free-form combos with the different sword stances you can use.
 
meltpotato said:
errr... posted earlier quotes and link to SCEE saying it was 2007 and many people (including some posting in this thread) have said they were told Spring 2007, which is later than the Q1 2007 i have been hearing.
None of that represents an official launch date announcement. Members of Ninja Theory have also previously said that it's important to them that this be a title available as close to launch as possible. Until there's a press release that put's a date to paper with SCEE/SCEWW official blessing, there's bound to be a certain amount of back and forth behind the scenes.
 
I think we're all going to be pleasantly suprised with how HS turns out.

I think it's got a bit of the "Holy Crap New IP" feeling that DMC did when it first came out.
 
Art looks great, no actually, spectacular. I'm surprised it's announced for launch though. If it makes it, it's Sony's biggest gun this holiday season.
 
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
From how it was explained in the recent Edge article, there's sort of two seperate fighting engines that each have their own nuances and dramatically affect how the game is played. There's your small scale DMC/GoW/NG style of fighting, and the large scale epic Dynasty Warriors style fighting. Both styles have very interactive environments with physics based objects that can be used for and against you. It wasnt explained yet how these seperate aspects will mesh together exactly during the course of the game, just that there will be some noticeable differences in feel, including the enemy AI which takes a more "squad based" (their term) approach during the larger scale battles. One niftly little aspect is certain squad members will actually have friends on the battlefield and react differently (anger/fear etc) if you take out one of their amigos during combat. Encouragingly NT's been emphasizing that its not a button masher, and are aiming for a deep combat engine focusing on timing and free-form combos with the different sword stances you can use.

Awesome!
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50621420060620_012549_11_big.jpg

This picture is just all sorts of godly. I wonder if the concept artist (Talem?) likes Jojo?

Really brilliant. I sure hope you can play as her or unlock an alternate costume for Nariko, with her as it. Also, hair down + Kimono = Awesome alternate costume!! ARE YOU LISTENING NAO????!!!!
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
http://www.jeux-france.com/Webmasters/Images/50621420060620_012549_11_big.jpg
This picture is just all sorts of emo. I wonder if the concept artist (Talem?) likes My Chemical Romance?
.
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
This picture is just all sorts of godly. I wonder if the concept artist (Talem?) likes Jojo?

Really brilliant. I sure hope you can play as her or unlock an alternate costume for Nariko, with her as it. Also, hair down + Kimono = Awesome alternate costume!! ARE YOU LISTENING NAO????!!!!

Isn't nAo in charge of technical stuff like DeanoC?

Are you a fan of Adachi Mitsuru? His new manga Cross Game pwnz.

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Kittonwy said:
Isn't nAo in charge of technical stuff like DeanoC?

Are you a fan of Adachi Mitsuru? His new manga Cross Game pwnz.

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Yep, but he's the only one from the team that visits GAF, as far as I know, not that it matters really as I said more as a joke, than anything... well, I still want alternate costumes, but yeah. Adachi fan indeed, but not the reason I chose the picture. It fit with the name. As a rule I stay away from most anime/manga based games as they tend to bite the horses rear end. I guess that's one of the few good ones though?

Kangu said:
:( I like Jojo. Forgive me.
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
Yep, but he's the only one from the team that visits GAF, as far as I know, not that it matters really as I said more as a joke, than anything... well, I still want alternate costumes, but yeah. Adachi fan indeed, but not the reason I chose the picture. It fit with the name. As a rule I stay away from most anime/manga based games as they tend to bite the horses rear end. I guess that's one of the few good ones though?


:( I like Jojo. Forgive me.

No, the manga's name is called "Cross Game", it's not a videogame.
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Kittonwy said:
No, the manga's name is called "Cross Game", it's not a videogame.
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LOL

Well, I suck don't I? Totally out of it. :(

I haven't read anything from him in a while to be honest. Last thing I read was the 15th Tank for Katsu. Manga money has to be partitioned across so many titles it's hard to keep up sometimes...
 
Mefisutoferesu said:
LOL

Well, I suck don't I? Totally out of it. :(

I haven't read anything from him in a while to be honest. Last thing I read was the 15th Tank for Katsu. Manga money has to be partitioned across so many titles it's hard to keep up sometimes...

Katsu is awesome, it's my favorite boxing manga of all time. Cross Game is another baseball manga, and reminds me alot of Touch.
gladtomeetya.gif
 
mckmas8808 said:
No actually that's a real shot there.

And why aren't more people talking about these pictures?

Because they look good, can't be too positive about a PS3 game. You should know that.
 
Isn't nAo in charge of technical stuff like DeanoC?
Deano being the lead programmer would be in charge of more then just technical stuff. In fact he may very well have some pull with stuff like what you were requesting. :P
 
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On a side note, I nominate her to play Nariko in the movie. Sorry but had to edit her photo as it was inappropriate for the thread.
 
sharukins said:
but God of war is where you run in an open environement, unlike heavenly sword
You're just not getting it sharukins...

http://www.ninjatheory.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2363&postcount=4
NinjaMartin said:
Not sure how it ended up in there... It should be alongside God of War 2 and co. in the 'Best Action/Adventure Game' category IMO. Oh well.

http://www.ninjatheory.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2418&postcount=3
Ninja Mikey said:
Definitely action adventure... there's a beautiful land outside the area that was shown at E3!!

It got classified as a fighter because they have no traditional platforming elements in the game. That does not mean you go from enclosed environment to enclosed environment like a brawler.
 
Mmmkay said:
It got classified as a fighter because they have no traditional platforming elements in the game. That does not mean you go from enclosed environment to enclosed environment like a brawler.

Especially when NT has said over and over that there will be locations that take place outside of inclosed sections. It just depends on the gameplay style of where you're at. Some are arena based others are war based where you'll be fighting across a big land.
 
Here's an interview about HS with nAo

For the tech junkies as I understand none of this

PSINext: High dynamic range lighting - or HDR - is a term we're starting to hear more and more of these days. Can you explain to us exactly what HDR is, and what it means to people sitting in front of their screens playing a game?

Marco: Yeah, it's a very common term nowadays and it's often misused.

When we render an HDR image, we are basically storing all of the information we need to represent the amount of light that passes through every pixel of our picture, so that we can capture a scene in all its color and luminance-range richness. Unfortunately, current low-cost display technologies (common LCDs, CRTs, etc..) can't properly display an HDR image, so we need to go through a process called 'tone mapping' to remap our image to an LDR (Low Dynamic Range) image in order to display it on a screen.

Tone mapping can also be used to simulate the way our eyes slowly adapt to different light conditions. In the end it means a better visual experience for gamers, although it will take time for the industry to get it right.

PSINext: What are some examples of scenery within a game that benefit from HDR?

Marco: Compared to LDR rendering, every scene that requires a very low or very high global luminance image, or an image with a high contrast ratio, would benefit from HDR lighting.

It's a way to avoid globally saturated images where everything comes out too bright or too dark and the viewer loses all that precious lighting/color information that enriches an image and makes it believable.

Furthermore, a specific tone mapping operator can give to a developer an extra tool to improve story telling, because it can be tweaked to simulate particular behaviors of human vision. It's important to understand that HDR is not just about nice bloom effects - it's much more than that. There's no such thing as LDR imagery in our every day lives.

PSINext: People have come to associate high dynamic range lighting with on-chip hardware support for either FP16 or FP32 HDR rendering. How does Team Ninja implement NAO32, and can it be considered 'real' HDR?

Marco: The FP16 and FP32 rendering formats give a developer the opportunity to collect per pixel information (respectively 8 and 16 bytes per pixel); hence they easily enable us to render and to store an HDR image. Unfortunately, these framebuffer formats are inherently slow because they require more memory bandwidth and increased memory space: an FP16 720p image with 4X anti-aliasing requires about 30 MBytes of memory!

At the same time it's important to understand that it does not matter how we store our HDR images so long as we find a way to encode them without losing too much information.

The RGB color space is not very efficient at encoding HDR images, so after a bit of research we found another color space that is far more efficient at representing HDR images. Its name is CIE Luv, and it splits a color into 3 components: one is not normalized and represents how intense a color is (luminance), while the other 2 components are normalized between 0 and 1.

Gregory Ward, a pioneer of HDR imaging, exploited this color space many years ago to store HDR images in a file format he called LogLuv, so we built upon that work and we customized it to our purposes.

PSINext: So NAO32 is a means for you to preserve memory while at the same time retaining image quality, is that correct?

Marco: Correct. The main idea behind NAO32 is that we want to trade shading power to regain memory space and bandwidth (very precious resources on a console). So instead of encoding our HDR colors into a FP16 or FP32 frame buffer, we devised a scheme to use RSX pixel shading units to convert an RGB color in a CIE Luv color that only requires a common RGBA8 frame buffer (4 bytes per pixel, half the space of a FP16 pixel) to be fully stored.

The quality of this format is really outstanding. Even if it uses half the space/bandwidth of common HDR rendering solutions, it really makes no compromises at all in image quality.

There's no magic here: HDR rendering costs are shifted from memory to shaders, and so our shaders are a bit longer now (between 3 and 5 cycles). We believe it's a very good trade-off. Furthermore, it enables HDR rendering and multisample anti-aliasing on GPUs that do not natively support AA with floating point render targets such as FP16 and FP32.

We also developed a faster 3 bytes per pixel version called NAO24 (predictable, isn't it?) that supports a narrower dynamic range with less accuracy. And although the quality was quite decent in most cases, we decided against making any compromises, and so in the end we did not use it.

My final answer is totally positive: NAO32 can be considered a real HDR format.

PSINext: We've spoken here about a number of NAO32's advantages. Are there any notable drawbacks?

Marco: Yes, there are drawbacks too; it's not an all-win situation. GPUs usually support hardware blending in RGB color spaces, hence hardware assisted blending is not going to work on a NAO32 frame buffer - it would produce incorrect results.

There are various ways to overcome this limitation though, such as by emulating blending operations in a pixel shader, or performing blending on a FP16 render target and then composing the resultÂ… or even just blending in LDR in a common RGBA8 buffer.

It would be nice to have a GPU that natively supports a CIE Luv frame buffer though.

Now to the stuff I do understand

PSINext: After getting to play the game at E3, it's clear that a number of intensive effects such as HDR - courtesy of NAO32 of course - and full soft shadowing are in place. What can you tell us about the levels of anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering, if any, Ninja Theory is utilizing for Heavenly Sword?

Marco: Yep, shadowing is completely dynamic and everything can cast/receive shadows. Soft shadows are achieved taking 12 jittered samples per pixel. Antialiasing is set to 4X (multisampling), but quality wise is not as good as it could be; we need to work on it, and hopefully it will improve over the next several months.

Anisotropic filtering is being used on some specific meshes (floors, walls, etc...) and AFAIK is set to 8x + trilinear.

PSINext: Have any internal resolution and frame-rate targets been set yet for HS?

Marco: Our target resolution for Heavenly Sword is 720p with 4x MSAA, which we've already achieved. The frame rate target is not something completely set in stone at this time. Though our E3 demo was running at over 30 frames per second, I'm willing to bet the final game will run at 30 FPS. Hopefully this will allow us to push even more effects on screen.

PSINext: After speaking with your Ninja colleagues Dean and Mike on the floor of E3, I've been told that Ninja Theory is presently using SPEs for tasks such as sound, physics, animation, and more. Since you're working on the engine, going forward what sort of performance headroom do you feel is present on Cell?

Marco: I can't give any numbers that would make much sense, but I'm certain at this time most developers are barely using Cell's power.

We all have to learn how this machine works and how to get the best out of it. It will take time, but gamers are going to experience some truly amazing stuff.

http://psinext.e-mpire.com/index.php?categoryid=3&m_articles_articleid=599
 
I'm definitely interested in this game, it looks so damn amazing. However, it'll be awhile before I drop the $$$ for a PS3. Still, this is the best reason to so far IMO.
 
I thought the developers were going to shoot for 60FPS? Now it is back to 30FPS.....meh. First time I've been disappointed with this game.
 
Mrbob said:
I thought the developers were going to shoot for 60FPS? Now it is back to 30FPS.....meh. First time I've been disappointed with this game.

It's always been 30fps as far as the framerate they knew they could hit. The 60fps is the framerate that Deano said he would like to get to because he's a big framerate fan. So they aren't avoiding hitting that framerate, it just depends on how things go.
 
Look at this
PSINext: The advantages of reduced space and preserved quality seem like they would have merit in a number of environments. Do you think there may be a place for NAO32 on the desktop, or even on Microsoft or Nintendo offerings?

Marco: Dunno about Nintendo's offering, but it might have merit on Microsoft's console if developers wanted something that takes the same storage space as a FP10 (a custom Xenos rendering format) render target, but with a much higher level of quality. NAO32 on Xenos would cost developers shading power relative to FP10, however, and they would lose the ability to use the eDRAM for blending as well. So at this time, I believe something like NAO32 makes more sense on RSX than on Xenos.
 
Hrm, so heavenly sword is using NAO32 HDR, 4X MSAA, and 8X AF. 720p, at 30fps or possibly 60fps.

Not bad...like everyone else I want 60 fps, though, of course.
 
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