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Hideki Kamiya thinks Japan should be proud of ‘JRPG’ and wants to use ‘J-Action’

Hugare

Member
Kamiya gets it

"Eurojank" is more debatable, but even that can be seen as a good thing, depending on the context
 

Myths

Member
Nah just drop it altogether, it’s ridiculous and only opens endless arguments time and time again — especially ones that only cherry-pick what they feel belongs in such a genre.

What he’s saying is, just because he’s from somewhere doesn’t mean what he does makes it necessarily of that place from an ideological and philosophical perspective obviously. More so, that those aforementioned quality can necessarily be attributed to that place.

Also, someone mentioned devs not making games like SMT, Persona, etc. The youth that grow up with such games in the West and pursue game dev could find themselves in positions where games of the future drawn on such incredible IPs for inspiration. They would be the new wave who would be more capable of creating something similar if no one else.

If someone’s backlog had a focus on series such as PokeMon, FF, Zelda, Tales… and such, why wouldn’t they be able to produce something similar outside of Japan? Yeah, don’t answer that. The opposite is also true for devs anywhere else playing and drawing on CoD, Witcher, GoW, and others. There are few instances where they add their own mix and you could genuinely affix a demonym to the genre ascribing some philosophical and ideological qualities thereof.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Its a dumb term because it doesnt mean anything. It cannot even be defined. But its probably too late to convince everyone to stop using it.
 

Deerock71

Member
I got blocked by him as a perk of The Wonderful 101 kickstarter and I don't think I ever requested to be unblocked.
 

Sophist

Member
Yuji Horii (creator of Dragon Quest) defined JRPG as the mixing of Ultima exploration system with Wizardry random battle system and self-proclaimed Dragon Quest to be the blueprint of this genre. I would add character design done by a mangaka.

Ultima (top down, battles on same screen):
4093852-ultima-atari-f1f82.png


Wizardry (First person, random battles, turn based) :
4220345-wizardry-the-d9cmo.png
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I see nothing wrong with calling them Japanese role playing games. There is quite a distinction and differences between Japanese and Western role-playing games. There's nothing wrong with that especially when I kind of prefer the Japanese games instead.
 
I agree with this.

It’s very obvious that Yoshi-P is obsessed with pleasing Westerners and is embarrassed of being Japanese or something. From XVI having a bland Western aesthetic, to basically copying a lot of the style of Sony first party “cinematic experience” games, to XVI even recording in English first (and I think writing the script in English first, too?).
 

unlurkified

Member
Good. Intersectional marxism inserts itself in everything intentionally with the express intent to divide and conquer. Oppressors and all that lot. Not saying that people and groups of all types that abuse or subjugate don't or haven't existed or continue to exist. I'm of the mindset that Japan has a lengthy and storied history in entertainment much less the videogame industry, and have developed a prestigious reputation(which some dislike greatly for various reasons). If anything, and its opening a different can of worms with a set of people, is the claim that Jrpg can only mean anime style games, or cliched Final Fantasy style games. For me personally I use Japanese Role Playing Game to refer to a game that has rpg mechanics that was made in Japan. Not western and inspired by, not Korean or Chinese etc. It can take any form(turn-based, action, strategy etc) or artstyle. FromSoft for example russles a few jimmies and I suspect it is due to people experiencing cognitive dissonance when liking something more to their tastes, but disliking the association to other Japanese games that predominantly utilize different themes and stereotypes. Rooted in insecurities essentially.

His opinion in regards to retro is fair. Retro denotes a throwback, more of a fad as he said. Something stylistic to reference something that once was, whereas at the time those things were the norm. And again to my point made in other threads throughout the years, the fact that there is even a label for catagorizing Jrpgs, unlike the generalized term of western rpg is profound and frankly very impressive. That little island nation boasts so much imagination and brainpower, not to mention sheer creativity that its arguably competing with the world for decades says quite a lot. Now I know that not everybody has had access to the same tech and resources to cultivate the skillsets and interests required to build up a game development industry, but damn if it isn't impressive. And all this time later I'm still excited for upcoming Jrpgs as well as enjoy watching documentaries on Japanese game development and Jrpg history.

At its root the claim that Jrpg is discriminatory is by grifters looking to lump their works(or those they like) in with the games that developed such a legacy. I suspect it also coincides with those that dislike the traditionalism that is displayed in many eastern works. Beauty, femininity, heterosexuality, traditional gender roles. Even when those roles are reversed, or some unique characters or situations are presented, it is not the norm, and that goes against the cultural revolution that's been taking place in the west these past few years if not decades.
I live in Japan (not an expert tho) and luckily all that garbage is not even a blip on anyone’s radar here. It’s why FF16 unapologetically didn’t have a cast that was made to look like The Magic School Bus.
 
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Rat Rage

Gold Member
This is all fake news. Literally made up bullshit.

JRPG - as a term - has cemented itself as a specific type of video game genre in video game history and has never had any bad connotation.

It started as a term for a specific type of RPG made in Japan and quickly became synonymous with Role Playing Games that are turn-based.

Those early Role-Playing Games from Japan were of high quality and became hugely successful and beloved all over the world (once they saw western releases).
 

Generic

Member
There was definitely a time when games like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, The Witcher etc were getting tons of mainstream attention, while at the same time JRPGs kinda shit the bed.

DQ and FF hadn’t made the leap to HD yet. Series like Suikoden/Breath of Fire/Lunar/Seiken Densetsu/Grandia either went handheld/mobile or committed seppuku. The few next gen JRPGs we did get were mostly mediocre cringey weeb trash (Infinite Undiscovery, Enchanted Arms, Blue Dragon, Last Remnant, Star Ocean 4).

Many JRPG fans were extremely butthurt seeing JRPGs not receiving the same prestige and interest as WRPGs, and in fact some of them still carry that persecution complex with them to this day.
"There was definitely a time when games like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout 3, The Witcher etc were getting tons of mainstream attention"

And none of these games were good.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
Japanese Action Games have gotten better while the Japanese Role Playing Games (to me) were better years ago. I don’t think technology improved JRPGs as it did with action games. That’s overlooked because now, most developers can use sprites and dish out a Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest clone. Which is why I dislike it when someone goes on and on about the style being outdated. It’s not outdated, it’s just been replicated over and over again, same with 3D role playing games. Creative freedom with technical hurdles isn’t what it use to be and I blame that on saturation. People miss the innovation and imagination that came with 2D and polygon/pixelated role playing games.

Kratos isn’t the same as he was years ago. It’s all about drama, drama, and drama. Only similarity was having Atreus and Viola as characters. I stick to Japanese Action Games because they don’t keep watering down the content and developing so many hand holding adventures. I also feel like a lot of the art and direction that came from the PS1 era is hard to replicate because the imagination doesn’t translate too well with the technology. Maybe it was better because we interpreted it without words or some cringy cutscenes.

I use the term and it’s in a way where it doesn’t include some racist definition of a genre. In my opinion Japan coined the genre for a lot of people. My first love of role playing games is from stuff like Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star. It didn’t start with D&D.
 
I'm not going to tell people how to feel, but outside of cringy, miserable cunts like Adam Sessler nobody used the term 'JRPG' as a pejorative. It was to differentiate RPGs from the Western RPGs of the time, which were very different games.

Japanese devs falter when they try to cater to what they think Western gamers want. Just do your thing proudly, with your balls hanging out the front of your pants.
 
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Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Everybody gobbles up Yoshi Ps nuts but the king of trash side quests, slog pacing, and leveling for dummies was the first to bring to public being butt hurt over the term JRPG.

At this point aside from persona, JRPG should be an offensive term referring to some of the worst fucking games known to man. JRPG used to be a status of an epic adventure when you had games like Suikoden 2, Chrono Trigger, final fantasy 9, etc.

Now it’s a quick way of saying oh you like low effort anime trope garbage ? Cool check out the new star ocean game, Valkyrie Elysium , or one of these god awful waifu alchemist doo doo games.

If it wasn’t for Persona the whole genre would be dead and all would belong in the under $20 bargin bin. A decade plus of non stop diarrhea.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
How is denoting that it’s a Japanese made product discriminatory? Can’t wait to eat my full human breakfast later. Because full english breakfast is racist and triggering.
 

nikolino840

Member
I'm not going to tell people how to feel, but outside of cringy, miserable cunts like Adam Sessler nobody used the term 'JRPG' as a pejorative. It was to differentiate RPGs from the Western RPGs of the time, which were very different games.

Japanese devs falter when they try to cater to what they think Western gamers want. Just do your thing proudly, with your balls hanging out the front of your pants.
In japan they use terms for East and West rpg?
 

Klosshufvud

Member
To expand on @The Cockatrice 's post (and add much needed context), here is what Yoshida fully said:



Logically, his gripe kind of adds up. Most western media does not call European RPGs 'EuroRPG', they are just called RPG or WRPG. From Japan's perspective, every other country gets to enjoy the label 'RPG' but them, because they were separated early on in gaming in an odd way, simply because of their point of origin. What makes this even weirder is when you look up eastern region games like 'Genshin Impact' and 'Honkai Star Rail' those are classified as RPG and Turn based RPG, even though from a casual western perspective they might as well be inseparable from the term 'JRPG' and the look of anime, due to their outward appearance. The fact that Korean and Chinese studios can get away with enjoying the RPG label, but Japanese games can't escape the JRPG label, is quite interesting :pie_thinking:

Unless we have an 80s japan historian on GAF, it seems like many here will simply dismiss this as...well, you can see the above posts, when this has nothing to do with western media or "woke-isms", because well...it's Japan lol.
The JRPG term originates from the fact that Japan used to have a hugely prominent RPGs that were pretty different from the western kind. There also came to be huge fanbases that solely played these Japanese RPGs but refused to touch any traditional RPG. So they became their own niche. But the term these days is mostly reserved for turn-based Japanese games with stylistic/anime artstyle.

My issue with Yoshi-P taking offense comes into his other statements. How they attempted for F16 to have similar appeal to western teens as GTAV and CoD has. How overly blunt they were marketing this as a big AAA action game and not in fact a Final Fantasy game. Remember the teaser and how people actually thought the FF16 name was just a troll or a stunt? Yoshi-P has made a bit too many statements saying shit like this for me to give him benefit of the doubt. I feel he desperately wanted to move FF into the same hemisphere that Witcher 3 and GoW are at, at the cost of its legacy and identity.
 
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Fredrik

Member
I doubt that Yoshida would like it if all the sub-genres were wiped and FFXVI was directly compared to Baldur’s Gate 3 as a ”RPG”…

Letting different type of RPGs have their own styles defined as sub-genres is not a bad thing. And yeah I understand Kamiya here, maybe JAction could be a sub-genre.
 

Icymanipulator

Gold Member
100% agree with him.

Got into a debate recently about if Honkai Star Rail is a jrpg, even though it’s a Chinese game. To me it absolutely is a jrpg. No argument is going to convince me otherwise. The term is rooted in gaming vocabulary at this point.
 

Rat Rage

Gold Member
Yuji Horii (creator of Dragon Quest) defined JRPG as the mixing of Ultima exploration system with Wizardry random battle system and self-proclaimed Dragon Quest to be the blueprint of this genre. I would add character design done by a mangaka.

Ultima (top down, battles on same screen):
4093852-ultima-atari-f1f82.png


Wizardry (First person, random battles, turn based) :
4220345-wizardry-the-d9cmo.png

Very good post.
 

March Climber

Gold Member
The JRPG term originates from the fact that Japan used to have a hugely prominent RPGs that were pretty different from the western kind. There also came to be huge fanbases that solely played these Japanese RPGs but refused to touch any traditional RPG. So they became their own niche. But the term these days is mostly reserved for turn-based Japanese games with stylistic/anime artstyle.
I’m going to consider your post as opinion for now, since you didn’t link any articles or evidence. That being said, what are your thoughts on dev teams from other regions of Asia perfectly emulating JRPGs from top to bottom, but having the luxury of simply being called an RPG?
 
He's absolutely correct. I've been a gamer for 40+ years, and I've always love games from Japan, especially RPGs, loving referred to as JRPGs. I was appalled, dismayed and horrified when the Final Fantasy 16 producer Naoki Yoshida said he hated the term "JRPG" because he thought that it had a negative connotation. He's completely wrong in this. The whole world loves JRPGs, and he should grow a pair if his feelings are hurt by it.
 
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Eh, no, he's wrong. Some other forum told me the "J" in "JRPG" is othering and racist. How dare he.
That narrative seems like revisionist history to me. If anything, JRPG was used as a term of endearment by Japanophiles who wanted to separate and distinguish RPGs made in Japan from those icky western RPGs. I've rarely seen it used with a negative connotation.
 

Klosshufvud

Member
I’m going to consider your post as opinion for now, since you didn’t link any articles or evidence. That being said, what are your thoughts on dev teams from other regions of Asia perfectly emulating JRPGs from top to bottom, but having the luxury of simply being called an RPG?
Why would they be called JRPG when not made in Japan? A car may sound and look Japanese, but if it's not made in Japan, it's not a Japanese car.
 
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