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[Freezie KO]

Unless there's a gun being pressed against your temple, I'm cool with having religion mixed within education system, its a choice that should be made by the individual. As long as it not being forced I don't see what the big deal is.

Then send your kids to a private school where you can have religion mixed in.

If you're going to send your kids to a public school, funded through public money, then it shouldn't be up to "the individual." Which individual, anyway? You, the child, the school, the individuals actually footing the bill?

Until I can opt out of paying for public education, I don't want any of my tax dollars going to something that promotes faith.

What does it mean to you? Comes across as ignorant bullshit to me.

School and church are opposites. One (ideally) promotes critical thinking, development of the mind, scientific processes, and universal understandings like mathematics. The other promotes doctrine, appeals to authority, and faith, which is the very antithesis of continued educational discovery. "Faith" is a concession that one will continue to believe, regardless of the current status of evidence at hand. School should teach the exact opposite.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

This sets a good precedent for no religious prayers hung on school walls ANYWHERE in the nation. No prayers hung on school walls = impressionable kids not having religion shoved in their face = smarter kids overall.

Religion is already dying among the younger Americans but we're not out of the woods yet. Every little bit helps.

I'm not religious myself, but implying that just because someone is religious means they're dumber than another person is not right either.

 

[Orayn]

I thought you guys believed you are nothing but worm food after death?

That is seriously the coolest typo I have ever made.

We atheists really are immortal, by the way.

 

[bigtroyjon]

As a member of the non-Athiest group...I know lol.

Y'all remember that poll that came out we had a thread on it, where atheists were the most distrusted/hated group in society even more than rapists? It's suing over meaningless shit like this that pisses average people off lol.

Would you have a problem with a sign in a school that said "God is a bullshit lie fabricated by the weak minded in order to explain things their brain can't comprehend"?

Something tells me that a Christian or two might attempt to get a sign like that removed from the school and use the separation of church and state as the basis of their suit.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Then its fucking stupid.

Positivity is stupid?

 

[Korey]

I like all the people in this thread going "why don't they just remove this and that part."

They can do that. They can rewrite it so it doesn't feature any references to God and it no longer violates any laws.

OBVIOUSLY, THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT for those people. They wanted to keep the religious connotations up there.

committee members offered varied reasons why they felt the banner should remain, including two members who "were clearly motivated by their adherence to strong Catholic religious beliefs.

And they lost.

 

[Sober]

School and church are opposites. One (ideally) promotes critical thinking, development of the mind, scientific processes, and universal understandings like mathematics. The other promotes doctrine, appeals to authority, and faith, which is the very antithesis of continued educational discovery. "Faith" is a concession that one will continue to believe, regardless of the current status of evidence at hand. School should teach the exact opposite.

Only in America...

 

[dallow_bg]

Then its fucking stupid.

Sounds like a rather nice personal sentiment at that point to me.

 

[Slavik81]

Exactly. For God's sake, the Supreme Court Building has the Ten Commandments on it. Should we tear it down or bomb it out like the Taliban did to those Buddhist statues?

"You shall have no other gods in My presence..." is not exactly the stuff modern societies are founded on.

But moving it to a museum would be more appropriate than destroying it.

 

[Orayn]

Would you have a problem with a sign in a school that said "God is a bullshit lie fabricated by the weak minded in order to explain things their brain can't comprehend"?

Something tells me that a Christian or two might attempt to get a sign like that removed from the school and use the separation of church and state as the basis of their suit.

Hey man, that big offensive sign is a part of school history. You can't just get rid of it!

 

[dallow_bg]

I like all the people in this thread going "why don't they just remove this and that part."

They can do that. They can rewrite it so it doesn't feature any references to God and it no longer violates any laws.

OBVIOUSLY, THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT for those people. They wanted to keep the religious connotations up there.



And they lost.

Well duh.
We're saying that's what they should have done.

Obviously they didn't.

 

[mavs]

This is unfair because Christians can't sue to have atheism removed from the empty space where the banner was.

 

[foodtaster]

I like all the people in this thread going "why don't they just remove this and that part."

They can do that. They can rewrite it so it doesn't feature any references to God and it no longer violates any laws.

OBVIOUSLY, THAT WAS NEVER THE POINT for those people. They wanted to keep the religious connotations up there.



And they lost.

No. The girl should have sued to have the words removed, not the entire thing. Obviously the people who put it up would want to retain the original. joke post?

 

[dallow_bg]

No. The girl should have sued to have the words removed, not the entire thing. Obviously the people who put it up would want to retain the original. joke post?

 

[rCIZZLE]

I'm against public schools taking religion and shoving it down students' throats. However, I don't see why she made a big deal over a banner.

 

[Zaptruder]

A small but worthwhile victory.

Ideally, we can move to a culture that embraces efficacy over doctrine - but the current climate of culture - the informational ocean in which our brains are constantly and completely submerged, providing it with its overall context of the world... is still saturated with pro-religion sentiments in general.

 

[ghostofsparta]

I tried reading her blog but stopped at

"For me, religion does more bad than good"

She'll be pregnant by next year.

 

[MisterHero]

Hey man, that big offensive sign is a part of school history. You can't just get rid of it!

Don't forget to remove contact sports and gym games

People could get hurt you know

 

[SiteSeer]

i went to this school. no joke. jr and sr class. i never saw this, though i never hung around after class, but that was ten years ago.

 

[nomis]

So, that's the solution to America's dumb youth. Getting rid of religion!

It couldn't hurt.

I tried reading her blog but stopped at

"For me, religion does more bad than good"

She'll be pregnant by next year.

What the fuck does this mean? I forgot, christian school girls NEVER get knocked up, because they're christian and they don't have unprotected sex before marriage, duh.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Positivity is stupid?

Derr.

You know that is not my meaning.

Like I said, if you remove the "our heavenly father" and "amen", it merely is a reflective message, both personal and as a community, to be good people.

But, we can't have that, now can we?

It is not reflective if it is asking to be granted something from someone.

Sorry, but that's how the words work.

 

[delta25]

Right - the point of this is that people are legally justified to take this kind of action. Being ignorant or complacent shouldn't be encouraged, which is what appears some people are saying. Is it really that difficult to understand that the school was, no matter how insignificantly small, in the wrong?

Its a fucking harmless banner that probably cost the tax payer a fair bit of money to take down. All because some teenage girl felt that a banner with a positive message in a religious form was intruding on her rights. This is what you would call a a gross misallocation of valuable resources.

1st world problems at their finest.

 

[Plumbob]

No, she explicitly said she was not offended and she thought it was a godo message. She was just "worried" (aka one of her parents probably put her up to it or she thought she could get some notoriety out of it) it was no Constitutional.

Or, she could, you know, be atheist and activist-minded. What indications are there that her parents pressured her to do it? It seemed like if anything it was the other way around. And why would notoriety (and vitriol, and harassment) be desirable? Come on now.

 

[Korey]

I'm against public schools taking religion and shoving it down students' throats. However, I don't see why she made a big deal over a banner.

Because it violates the constitution and it's her right as an American not to be subjected to that.

Its a fucking harmless banner that probably cost the tax payer a fair bit of money to take down. All because some teenage girl felt that a banner with a positive message in a religious form was intruding on her rights. This is what you would call a a gross misallocation of valuable resources.

1st world problems at their finest.

Actually it would have probably cost $.30 if the school followed the rules instead of trying to shove religion down everyone's throats. But of course it's the atheist's fault for complaining!

 

[Orayn]

I tried reading her blog but stopped at

"For me, religion does more bad than good"

She'll be pregnant by next year.

You know that it's the abstinence-humpers that get pregnant, right?

Don't forget to remove contact sports and gym games

People could get hurt you know

Sporting events can stay,but not without a moment to reflect on how we are all unworthy of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's grace.

 

[Sayah]

Question:
So apparently it's okay to say the pledge of allegiance each day in public school (one nation, under GOD) but it's not okay to have that banner?

 

[FunkyMunkey]

This sets a good precedent for no religious prayers hung on school walls ANYWHERE in the nation. No prayers hung on school walls = impressionable kids not having religion shoved in their face = smarter kids overall.

You don't even hide this shit. :lol

Yes, all my friends who were raised Christian/Catholic and grew up to be engineers were disadvantaged and dumb as kids.

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Orayn]

Question:
So apparently it's okay to say the pledge of allegiance each day in public school (one nation, under GOD) but it's not okay to have that banner?

Who says it's okay? The banner is just a target that's actually within reach.

You don't even hide this shit. :lol

Yes, all my friends who were raised Christian/Catholic and grew up to be engineers were disadvantaged and dumb as kids.

Give me a fucking break.

Dummies should have spec'd into atheism out of Catholic school like I did. That skill tree has too many useless passive bonuses.

 

[PigSpeakers]

i went to this school. no joke. jr and sr class. i never saw this, though i never hung around after class, but that was ten years ago.

How'd you make it out of there man? Did you feel oppressed?

 

[Mario]

Man, I don't know why stating that there is a certain air of hostility towards religion in GAF is such a big deal for you guys. I am not saying that there is a conspiracy where GAF atheists sending text message to one another saying "A MEMBER IS MAKING A RELIGIOUS THREAD! ATTACK NOW!" or silly stuff like that, it's just that it is what it is.

But this is off-topic talk, I guess.

I've seen arguments about review scores here that were more hostile than any GAF attack on religion.

Trying to single out hostility against religion in the sea of hostility that is GAF just highlights the persecution complex borne by some of the religious members here (and everywhere).

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

It does not matter what the sign says, its about showing something. No intelligent person could find something like that offensive. But what symbolizes its not proper for a school if we want all kids to see each other as the same.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Question:
So apparently it's okay to say the pledge of allegiance each day in public school (one nation, under GOD) but it's not okay to have that banner?

That line was added in the 50s.

It will be removed eventually.

I've seen arguments about review scores here that were more hostile than any GAF attack on religion.

Trying to single out hostility against religion in the sea of hostility that is GAF just highlights the persecution complex borne by some of the religious members here (and everywhere).

Wii Music got more shit than any religion.

 

[Korey]

You don't even hide this shit. :lol

Yes, all my friends who were raised Christian/Catholic and grew up to be engineers were disadvantaged and dumb as kids.

Give me a fucking break.

I strongly believe that if the religious:atheist ratio of the American population were reversed, our collective IQ as a country and society would be much higher. I'm not going to hang a mural of it on your school wall though!

 

[Sayah]

Who says it's okay? The banner is just a target that's actually within reach.

Mostly everyone. Most teachers actually encourage students to stand and say the pledge of allegiance and all students do stand and say it. At least this is from my experience.

 

[Dude Abides]

Question:
So apparently it's okay to say the pledge of allegiance each day in public school (one nation, under GOD) but it's not okay to have that banner?

There have unsuccessful lawsuits over that (and "Under God" on money) as well. Google Michael Newdow. The same type of people who are butthurt over this got butthurt over those.

 

[Mercurial]

I'm not religious myself, but implying that just because someone is religious means they're dumber than another person is not right either.

As a generalization, it works. I believe it's statistically true. Not a huge gap though. You have to forgo critical thinking and abandon logic in order to be religious. Makes sense then, no?

 

[rCIZZLE]

Because it violates the constitution and it's her right as an American not to be subjected to that.

Ya I'm sure a prayer banner was having a bigger negative impact on her life than her peers finding her attitude repulsive. I'm an atheist and if this happened at my school I'd be among the first to say "what the fuck is your problem?".

 

[Orayn]

Mostly everyone. Most teachers actually encourage students to stand and say the pledge of allegiance and all students do stand and say it. At least this is from my experience.

No, I meant that the presence of "under God" in the pledge is not necessarily considered okay by the people who agree with the banner being taken down.

 

[Always-honest]

Ha, brilliant

 

[delta25]

Then send your kids to a private school where you can have religion mixed in.

If you're going to send your kids to a public school, funded through public money, then it shouldn't be up to "the individual." Which individual, anyway? You, the child, the school, the individuals actually footing the bill?

Until I can opt out of paying for public education, I don't want any of my tax dollars going to something that promotes faith.

Bible class is the least of your problems if your main concern is about paying more taxes. And what the hell is wrong with promoting faith?

 

[Vaporak]

With the explicit addressee removed, your question is irrelevant. It can be whoever you want. At that point, why would it matter?

When Creationism was banned from being taught in schools, the proponents took their already written literature, did a find and replace for "Creationism" and replaced it with "Intelligent Design", and removed explicit references to the Christian God in favor of a vague "Designer". They argued, in court, that these changes were enough to allow it to be taught in publicly funded schools. My opinion on the matter is that it is painfully obvious that it was still the same religious viewpoint being pushed onto public schools, and changing the wording to try and hide that just made it obvious that the proponents knew what they were doing was already deemed illegal and were trying to get away with it anyways because they believed their religious views deserved special treatment.

 

[Korey]

Ya I'm sure a prayer banner was having a bigger negative impact on her life than her peers finding her attitude repulsive. I'm an atheist and if this happened at my school I'd be among the first to say "what the fuck is your problem?".

She's making the world a better place while you'd actively try to make her life harder. What a great person!

 

[Count Dookkake]

Ya I'm sure a prayer banner was having a bigger negative impact on her life than her peers finding her attitude repulsive.

How Christian of them!

And I say that with no sarcasm.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

I tried reading her blog but stopped at

"For me, religion does more bad than good"

She'll be pregnant by next year.

I'm sure she'll have an unbiased, complete sexual education, and take all the correct measures to avoid unwanted pregnancy.

If only the banner had said "Allah, grant us....." then she'd have the Christians on side.

 

[Orayn]

Bible class is the least of your problems if your main concern is about paying more taxes. And what the hell is wrong with promoting faith?

Government stuff is supposed to be impartial on the matter of religion. You can have a class about the Christianity, but you cannot have a class directly espousing how Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

 

[Pollux]

Bible class is the least of your problems if your main concern is about paying more taxes. And what the hell is wrong with promoting faith?

Didn't you hear? Faith and religion are evil and the root cause of all problems in society

 

[bigtroyjon]

You don't even hide this shit. :lol

Yes, all my friends who were raised Christian/Catholic and grew up to be engineers were disadvantaged and dumb as kids.

Give me a fucking break.

Nah, probably just raped by their Catholic priest.

"God says it's okay Timmy"

 

[woolley]

A small but worthwhile victory.

Ideally, we can move to a culture that embraces efficacy over doctrine - but the current climate of culture - the informational ocean in which our brains are constantly and completely submerged, providing it with its overall context of the world... is still saturated with pro-religion sentiments in general.

So the overall jest of the whole thing is that you want people to stop pushing their beliefs on you by pushing your beliefs on them?

 

[Sober]

I strongly believe that if the religious:atheist ratio of the American population were reversed, our collective IQ as a country and society would be much higher. I'm not going to hang a mural of it on your school wall though!

We have publicly funded Catholic schools up here in Canada and we seem to be doing fine. In fact, we never have these kind of problems at all.

 

[Orayn]

We have publicly funded Catholic schools up here in Canada and we seem to be doing fine. In fact, we never have these kind of problems at all.

Sounds like you're doing a bang-up job of keeping your rowdy unbelievers docile and afraid to stand up for themselves. Bravo!