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[Inuhanyou]

Your premise assumes that a given voter believes that the relatively far-left economically populist policy prescriptions espoused are A) feasible and executable, and B) necessarily in their interests.

I guess this is what they mean when people say that Reaganomics has tricked poor people into thinking they aren't actually poor and could feasibly "get rich with enough drive" to vote against themselves.

That's the exact mindset we have to confront in this election.

And your assumption is that Bernie Sanders is in the best interests of more than half of voting Americans. Which may be true. I dunno. It's a big assumption, though. And, I do know that people act against their best interests all the time.

This is also true, but it doesn't mean its right.

You can say your for your medicare and medicaid benefits,

Your social security pension,

For more money when you have a low paying job in the service industry you can barely hold onto,

For more of a fair shot when you have to pay a bazillion dollars in insurance to private health corps,

For more of a break when you have to pay shitloads in prescription drugs or go across the border,

For some respite when you loose all your livelihood to student debt barely getting loans when going to college,

For some mercy from god when your entire life is gambled away in a global ponzi scheme of speculative banking derivatives totally not your fault,

But it doesn't matter if someone can sell you the possibility of being rich sometime in the future and America and freedom even if its just words.

So its a pretty messed up situation, as certain people who are trying to argue

No I'm saying he's too far left because he's too far left. Again, you can't take 'popular opinion' as saying he has majority appeal across party lines. The last 3 elections have seen roughly only 58-60% of all eligible voters turn out, of which Republicans get roughly half the popular vote. The 2012 and 2004 elections were pretty close in terms of popular vote numbers. But GOP has roughly gotten 60 million votes each election.

And so in general, voter turnout must be addressed. That has nothing to do with his policies. Voter turn out in the independent and left leaning sides is so low because we have situations like this, in which people are demoralized because nothing changes in Washington. Why is congress hated so much? Because of that. Now we have someone who really has a broad platform for systemic changes to our issues, who would not vote for that, once they actually heard about that possibility?

Now you take Sanders, someone who has long been called a socialist, who is Jewish but almost atheist from New York, he's anti-gun, not religious, pro-choice, pro-immigration reform and amnesty, pro-environment, anti-oil/anti-pipeline, pro-LGBT, pro-obamacare/universal Healthcare etc. He's a complete nonstarter for almost every single red/conservative state and when the campaign dollars are flying, he's going to get roasted for these choices. If that means common sense is dead, then yeah probably. Wait until the oil companies, rich conservative donors, military industrial complex start taking out attack ads. Unlike Obama who was a charismatic speaker who capitalized on change we can believe in, you're facing a Republican majority in the Senate and house. Hillary Clinton has far broader appeal. Just look at how many voters Obama lost to Romney in 2012 versus McCain in 2008. Then again, what do I know. All I fear is more of the same in the US. Even a guy like Obama who wasn't really entrenched with corporate interests, who wasn't a career politician, is himself a minority wasn't able to achieve much, what could a president really do these days?

I can tell you this: voting for Hillary REALLY isn't going to change anything. If what your scared about is the status quo, that is the same thing as voting as her based on her allegiances to Citibank, JP Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs over you, and she will switch any position made during this campaign when 'circumstances become too hard' in the White House.

We should be arguing from a position of strength. People always talk about compromise. Its better to be compromising with the opposition starting on the assumption that the person we have on our side is actually genuinely fighting for our own causes, actually fighting earnestly instead of making a business transaction in the wrong way.

Hillary starts on their side from the start.

 

[rugioh]

Such optimism. Gonna make Hilary thrashing Bernie even funnier.

For real. I like Sanders, but I'm not confident in Sanders being able to win a general even against Trump. If Supreme seats weren't up for grabs I might go for him but not this cycle

 

[noshten]

You think Ultra left Sanders has a better shot then Hillary? Lol okay.

Centrist policies help no one, you either go big or go home.
The reason Sanders has a better shot is because of his character. Clinton's character is called into question due to her flip flopping on issues and having skeletons in the closet. To top it all off she is difficult to relate to and her debate performance is nonexistent. She lost the nomination last time precisely because she performed horribly in the debates. It's no wonder the DNC has scheduled only 6 debates and has threatened all candidates to not take part in any other debates other than the official ones. The Establishment was Clinton to win the nomination but they know she would perform horribly in the debates.

Bernie Sanders has been a politician for 35 years.

I'm confused as to why people think he's not a career politician or that he's less of a 'Washington Insider' than other candidates. Is it because his policies are different than the norm? Because he (for the moment) is shrugging off certain high profile political donors?

Like, I understand that the shifting political climate has finally allowed something this left-leaning a fair shake in an election season, and that's something left-leaning under-represented people can rally behind, but let's stop pretending Sanders hasn't been a congressman for 25 years.

Do you know how many independent politicians there are in the US?
How many people get reelected without the financial assistance of 1%?
How many politicians that carry the (D) have said they are against the current system which by the way was formed during Bill's time as president and how few of them actually do something about it.
Sanders might have been a congressman for 25 years but his position has not changed during that time, unlike so many (D) that flip flop on issues as soon as the big money and establishment pressure is applied to them.
Sanders has defended his position and not wavered from what got him elected in the first place.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

should we start covering Hillary in black balls?

 

[XT Vengeance]

The more I hear Bernie speak, the more I want to vote for him. He seems to be the only person running who actually gives a shit about the working class.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I guess this is what they mean when people say that Reaganomics has tricked poor people into thinking they aren't actually poor and could feasibly "get rich with enough drive" to vote against themselves.

That's the exact mindset we have to confront in this election.

I don't really need to confront anything, this news currently holds my interest, but my interest in these races is purely academic and external.

I have looked at Sanders [relatively barebones, although presumably the intent is to actually flesh these out at some point] policy prescriptions more recently, they range from reasonable progressive planks, to unrealistic fantasy, to harmful demagoguery. The idea that if one doesn't believe this is all necessarily practical and/or in their interests they must have been hoodwinked seems relatively paternalistic/conceited.

 

[marrec]

should we start covering Hillary in black balls?

As soon as she shows any signs of actual evaporation instead of a dark horse candidate coming within 20% points of her. :-/

 

[onipex]

I would love for Bernie to win but I doubt it'll happen once the Clinton machine really kicks up.

 

[Chariot]

As soon as she shows any signs of actual evaporation instead of a dark horse candidate coming within 20% points of her. :-/

It get's cooler if you look back. Sanders started out barely known in the single digits and crawled his way up the mountain to the point where he is a force that Hillary can't ignore and thst without companies and big moneybags backing him, only with his own power, believes and people who adore a honest human. He is like Rocky with very messy hair fighting an articially enhanced machine.

 

[marrec]

It get's cooler if you look back. Sanders started out barely known in the single digits and crawled his way up the mountain to the point where he is a force that Hillary can't ignore and thst without companies and big moneybags backing him, only with his own power, believes and people who adore a honest human. He is like Rocky with very messy hair fighting an articially enhanced machine.

Rocky lost in the first movie.

 

[JustenP88]

https://youtu.be/Vabeos-F8Kk

https://youtu.be/xIJS_dxNyak

Bernie's been real with it since day one. Fuck political "pragmatism". Fuck "it's her turn". Fuck a candidate who shifts her principles once something becomes politically prudent.

http://theweek.com/articles/567774/hillary-clinton-needs-address-racist-undertones-2008-campaign

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Rocky lost in the first movie.

I can't adequately express how funny this is.

 

[Kusagari]

Florida being listed as a swing state is weirding me out. From my anecdotal experience that state is as red as it gets (space coast region)

This all while being aware that Florida has voted for Obama.

My country was as red as it could get.

No state where South Florida exists is as red as it gets.

 

[Chariot]

Rocky lost in the first movie.

Indeed. He is losing the first polls indeed. But the story marches on and he gets stronger every training montage.

 

[marrec]

Indeed. He is losing the first polls indeed. But the story marches on and he gets stronger every training montage.

We'll see. Right now he's further behind Clinton than Bams was at the same point in that cycle so he's got a huge hill to climb.

 

[KingK]

Most recent polls i saw had Bernie beating every republican in a general except Bush, where he was only down one point. Granted, there hasn't been nearly enough polling of Sanders in a general election, but the few that have come out recently have him with competitive numbers. He's not as safe a bet as Hillary in the general, but the people saying that literally any republican would beat him in a landslide are engaging in nearly as much poll unskewing as anyone who claims Sanders is a lock to beat Clinton.

Also, with all of the hand wringing about him being the next Mondale/Dukakis, you'd think the electorate hasn't changed at all since 1984. A black person would never be elected president in 1984, so Obama clearly stands no chance, right? I'm pretty sure i read an analysis a while back stating that if Dukakis had the same vote percent among each demographic, he would have won in today's electorate, since white men make up a significantly smaller percentage of the vote.

 

[Neoweee]

I still don't think Bernie has much a of a chance at getting the nomination. Not 0%, but he needs to get support from other groups within the Democratic party, not just White Liberals (Hi, GAF).

538: Bernie Sanders Could Win Iowa And New Hampshire. Then Lose Everywhere Else.

 

[bachikarn]

Hopefully Sanders popularity will force Hilary to adopt some of his ideas.

 

[Miracle]

https://youtu.be/Vabeos-F8Kk

https://youtu.be/xIJS_dxNyak

Bernie's been real with it since day one. Fuck political "pragmatism". Fuck "it's her turn". Fuck a candidate who shifts her principles once something becomes politically prudent.

http://theweek.com/articles/567774/hillary-clinton-needs-address-racist-undertones-2008-campaign

Wow! That's CM Punk level pipe bomb right there.

If he goes all in like that in the debate in October, the viewers are gonna love him, especially the younger audience.

 

[Red Blaster]

i like sanders save his protectionist fetish but i can't get over how he always sounds like he's in the middle of ordering a rueben at katz's deli

 

[Interfectum]

Democrats can't afford to throw a temper tantrum at the election booth this election.

Sanders will get destroyed in the general election, and we'll be stuck with conservative supreme court judges for decades.

Same old shit, every thread.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Doesn't really matter. The word "socialist" still has bad connotations here, despite Bernie having awesome ideas. Also he's like 100. I don't see him beating Hilary.

 

[-Horizon-]

If there ever was a way to get me to vote for someone, it would be this.

 

[Laevateinn]

I would love for Bernie to win but I doubt it'll happen once the Clinton machine really kicks up.

I would love for Obama to win but I doubt it'll happen once the Clinton machine really kicks up.

Everyone expects the Clintons to be successful out of sheer inertia. It didn't work for Gore. It didn't work for Hillary and it's not guaranteed to work again. The Clinton's give voters no reason to support them. What does she even stand for? So far, the only concrete proposals I'm aware of are she wants to reduce student debt and is against arctic drilling. Has she taken a stance on TPP? What will she do to keep corporations from screwing us? Will she continue to be a war hawk and expand our defense budget? She's against privatizing Social Security but will she expand it? What about Medicare?

I will vote for anyone who supports single payer healthcare and against anyone who supported the Iraq war. If she wins the nomination, I most likely will vote for a 3rd party because she has given me no reason to believe she will not expand the military industrial complex or keep wall street from screwing us over. I am sick of the Clintons and their third way triangulation.

 

[legacyzero]

I think the debates in October are going to help Bernie explode a hell of a lot more than he already has. His sincerity is captivating.

I do wonder how the mainstream media will paint him, seeing as he's very recently and vocally called them the fuck out.

Love this video. I really think this is my candidate.

 

[X-Frame]

Being in New York, I registered to vote I think as Independent or something, whatever gave me the option to pick who I wanted.

However; apparently I wouldn't even be able to pick Sanders since I need to have been registered as a Democrat. I don't understand this, can someone elaborate? It baffles me to think that I would be unable to vote for someone from another party if they swayed me come election time.

 

[jayhawker]

Being in New York, I registered to vote I think as Independent or something, whatever gave me the option to pick who I wanted.

However; apparently I wouldn't even be able to pick Sanders since I need to have been registered as a Democrat. I don't understand this, can someone elaborate? It baffles me to think that I would be unable to vote for someone from another party if they swayed me come election time.

You can vote for whomever you want in the general election. In a primary, it's supposed to be the members of party x voting for who they want to represent them in the general election. So, it would make sense if NY restricted primary elections to only members of the respective party.

That said, in most states I've lived in, if you're independent you can just tell the person at the poll which party's primary you want to vote in.

 

[FreezeSSC]

Being in New York, I registered to vote I think as Independent or something, whatever gave me the option to pick who I wanted.

However; apparently I wouldn't even be able to pick Sanders since I need to have been registered as a Democrat. I don't understand this, can someone elaborate? It baffles me to think that I would be unable to vote for someone from another party if they swayed me come election time.

You might be confusing primary election vs general election, if you want to vote for Bernie in the primary you'll need to be a registered dem, in the general you can vote for whomever.

Edit: and beaten.

 

[Pyrokai]

I want someone to tell me a real talk answer on Bernie's chances of winning. Real talk. Give me a percentage.

 

[alstein]

Same old shit, every thread.

The temper tantrum are those voting for Hillary in my eyes.

I want someone to tell me a real talk answer on Bernie's chances of winning. Real talk. Give me a percentage.

Winning the nomination: 5%. Hillary has to bungle for it to happen, but Hillary's a bungler.

Winning the general if he gets nominated: 75% (I put Hillary at about 55%)

 

[BertramCooper]

I want someone to tell me a real talk answer on Bernie's chances of winning. Real talk. Give me a percentage.

0%

 

[Fenderputty]

Same old shit, every thread.

This post is ironic.

I want someone to tell me a real talk answer on Bernie's chances of winning. Real talk. Give me a percentage.

This is like going into a Nintendo thread and asking fans how they feel about upcoming 3rd party support.

 

[Herbs]

Same old shit, every thread.

They think if they say it enough it will come true.

Or alternatively, "LALALALA!(fingers in my ears)"

Hopefully Sanders popularity will force Hilary to adopt some of his ideas.

Probably the best overall outcome and his main motivation.

 

[Jeevesmeister]

All this talk of Sanders getting obliterated in the General assumes Hillary somehow wouldn't, and with this e-mails server business a lot of people seem to forget the Swift Boat Veterans of 2004 who manufactured an entirely false narrative to put the knife in Kerry, a decorated war veteran under fire who actually understood the human cost of war, to give the silver spoonfed war criminal Bush a second term.

This time around the Republican Hate Machine already has their money shot as of yesterday and if you don't think they won't milk it to hell and back on top of portraying her as at best, a criminal, and at worst, a threat to national security in the very Oval Office itself you're out of your mind.

They'll flounder at Sanders because they can only come at him with policy and "grr! socialism," and frankly, after a lot of the Left's disappointment with Obama and his glitzy imagery (hey, I fell for it too) Sanders as the unsexy old person talking straight on policy is what people are looking for - at least more than "Yaaasss, Hillary!" bullshit.

 

[captainnapalm]

I do wonder how the mainstream media will paint him, seeing as he's very recently and vocally [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGv2SPB8pNU"]called them the fuck out[/URL].[/QUOTE]

That interview was on point. I loved what he said about how the media divides America and creates this entire fake political narrative that has nothing to do with the real issues. So people end up voting completely against their own interests.

Any American who isn't fabulously wealthy and in on the capitalist gang bang at the highest level should vote for this guy, whether they are democrat or republican. All the other candidates are company men (and women), bought and paid for, acting against their best interests at home and abroad.

It's very encouraging, by the way, to see Sanders doing so well. It's almost like more and more people are starting to get it. Meanwhile, in the UK, they just voted the tories in again. Americans (some of them anyway) seem to be wising up, while the Brits are as clueless as ever.

 

[AgentP]

So how much of this Bernie support is really just "Not Clinton" support? Lots of people on the left don't like her.

 

[BertramCooper]

They'll flounder at Sanders because they can only come at him with policy and "grr! socialism," and frankly, after a lot of the Left's disappointment with Obama and his glitzy imagery (hey, I fell for it too) Sanders as the unsexy old person talking straight on policy is what people are looking for - at least more than "Yaaasss, Hillary!" bullshit.

You severely underestimate how effective the "Grr! Socialism!" argument will be during the general election.

It will be a far more effective cudgel against Bernie than Benghazi or the email stuff will ever be against Hillary.

 

[Herbs]

That interview was on point. I loved what he said about how the media divides America and creates this entire fake political narrative that has nothing to do with the real issues. So people end up voting completely against their own interests.

Any American who isn't fabulously wealthy and in on the capitalist gang bang at the highest level should vote for this guy, whether they are democrat or republican. All the other candidates are company men (and women), bought and paid for, acting against their best interests at home and abroad.

It's very encouraging, by the way, to see Sanders doing so well. It's almost like more and more people are starting to get it. Meanwhile, in the UK, they just voted the tories in again. Americans (some of them anyway) seem to be wising up, while the Brits are as clueless as ever.

I'd be interested to see if his approval ratings are a result of people being fed up with the status quo (sorry for using such an overused and mundane phrase) much like the other end of the spectrum with Trump. There is probably something there.

 

[ezrarh]

Hopefully Sanders popularity will force Hilary to adopt some of his ideas.

Even if Clinton suddenly had all the same ideas as Bernie, many people still won't trust her / like her. She's a known politician and most people have already made up their mind about her whether it's fair or not.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I honestly don't understand any particular reason why people like Sanders.

He's a career politician with triple the time in politics that Clinton has, he has 95% of the same opinions and voting record Clinton does, and most of the ideas he has that separate him from Clinton don't make any sense if you think about them beyond a slogan, e.g. "let's break up the banks!" (try thinking about the logistics of that and whether that would actually be a net benefit)

 

[Jeevesmeister]

You severely underestimate how effective the "Grr! Socialism!" argument will be during the general election.

It will be a far more effective cudgel against Bernie than Benghazi or the email stuff will ever be against Hillary.

The Cold War ended a long time ago and I say you're severely overestimating this. The Left has certainly changed and is more open looking at Europe's success across the pond embracing similar policies. Sanders has the arguments to back these policies up as well.

Benghazi and the e-mail server ("what, with a cloth or something?") is the smoking gun that is the crutch the Republicans will stand on if you have any memory of the shit they pulled with the Swift Boat campaign. They literally make a decorated war veteran under fire look like a coward who cried about being sent to war. You're forgetting they already got Michael Bay making a fucking summer blockbuster about the event, and you and I both know it'll blame the Obama Administration and Clinton in some form or another.

 

[pigeon]

This thread title is great. It's in the same vein as "Sun continues to explode into a red dwarf."

edit: Okay, well, I didn't know the mods were going to BLOW IT UP. For context, the previous title was "Hillary's lead over Sanders continues to evaporate"

 

[Fenderputty]

This thread title is great. It's in the same vein as "Sun continues to explode into a red dwarf."

Lmao

 

[captainnapalm]

I honestly don't understand any particular reason why people like Sanders.

He's a career politician with triple the time in politics that Clinton has, he has 95% of the same opinions and voting record Clinton does, and most of the ideas he has that separate him from Clinton don't make any sense if you think about them beyond a slogan, e.g. "let's break up the banks!" (try thinking about the logistics of that and whether that would actually be a net benefit)

He's not a corporate and military-industrial complex stooge. Clinton is.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Can we get a version of this gif with Bernie?

 

[danwarb]

But I heard he is one of those bad socialist people ;(

Sanders will be smeared into oblivion if he gets much closer to winning. Every corporate media outlet will be misrepresenting his economic policies and pushing manipulative scare FUD.

 

[BertramCooper]

The Cold War ended a long time ago and I say you're severely overestimating this. The Left has certainly changed and is more open looking at Europe's success across the pond embracing similar policies. Sanders has the arguments to back these policies up as well.

Posted already, but whatev.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/s...litics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles

This country is absolutely not beyond the boogeyman of socialism. Perhaps in a couple of decades, but sure as hell not yet.

 

[Jeevesmeister]

Good thing he's not running under a Socialist ticket, or is using the term at all in his campaign, then. Again, this is a false logic you're trying to pass, when you're trying to hedge bets against a sorta-Socialist going up against someone who you could make a strong argument as an incompetent threat to national security in the oval office. The Republicans have won many an election spreading fear before, and they'll do it again with Hillary.

 

[Chariot]

I honestly don't understand any particular reason why people like Sanders.

He's a career politician with triple the time in politics that Clinton has, he has 95% of the same opinions and voting record Clinton does, and most of the ideas he has that separate him from Clinton don't make any sense if you think about them beyond a slogan, e.g. "let's break up the banks!" (try thinking about the logistics of that and whether that would actually be a net benefit)

He has actual believes he stands for. He always was on the right aide of history with his votes and concerns. He runs a campaign financed by people instead of companies. He isn't a moneysack, he lives rather modest (he isn't poor either, but compare him to the rich other candidates). And he wants America to learn where it's not good. Wants to copy from other countries who do certain things better than just putting the nose in the air and just ignore every issue where the USA isn't great.

So how much of this Bernie support is really just "Not Clinton" support? Lots of people on the left don't like her.

I wouldn't even care for this election (other than laughing at Trump's antics) if it weren't for Sanders. This guy is great. The idea of an uncorrupted US-president that hates war and cares for people is great America and great for the whole world.

 

[dramatis]

I honestly don't understand any particular reason why people like Sanders.

He's a career politician with triple the time in politics that Clinton has, he has 95% of the same opinions and voting record Clinton does, and most of the ideas he has that separate him from Clinton don't make any sense if you think about them beyond a slogan, e.g. "let's break up the banks!" (try thinking about the logistics of that and whether that would actually be a net benefit)

Populism works.

See Donald Trump.

I wouldn't even care for this election (other than laughing at Trump's antics) if it weren't for Sanders. This guy is great. The idea of an uncorrupted US-president that hates war and cares for people is great America and great for the whole world.

You see, I am okay with people supporting Bernie. What I am not okay with is this:

"I wouldn't even care for this election if it weren't for Sanders."

Wow. What branch of government do you think made sure we got two liberal justices in the Supreme Court to hold a wall that Kennedy could form a majority with to make nationwide gay marriage possible? What branch of government do you think passed healthcare reform at the expense of great political capital, and then ended up losing midterm elections, because of people like you who couldn't be arsed to care about elections unless there is someone you like?

Are you here for the issues or for the politician?

All this enthusiasm for a person, not for the issues. Don't posit this as a grassroots movement if it will fade away after one election please.