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Hitman Absolution level changed due to negative nun trailer reaction
- Thread starter Sn4ke_911
- Start date
Haunted
Member
Meccanical
Member
It definitely has, not sure if this is Sarkeesian's doing or what.
My problem with the trailer was that it was just pandering. I saw it as "Lol sexy assassin nuns" and here we have the creators admitting that's the extent of their thought process. So, it didn't appeal to me and I ignored it.
I can see where some of you are coming from with the misogynistic violence-against-sexualized-women angle. I see that it can be interpreted that way but it should still have a right to exist. And you're free to criticize it for what you think it represents.
My interpretation:
1: Ok we got this bald guy who is Hitman. He is the protagonist and will kill anything presented to him in this trailer.
2: Pandering sexy nun assassins. They will be killed by Hitman because what else could possibly happen?
So for me, it didn't really matter who he killed. Could have been nuns, black guys, white guys, robots, a mix of equally racially diverse men, Women and LGBT. It doesn't matter because he will kill them all without any special treatment based on their gender/race/whatever. This is why I disapprove of what happened to RE5. So what if he was killing black guys? He was in a part of Africa (or wherever) where the majority population are ethnically black! That's the setting! They're infected by the zombie virus and seek out non-zombies to kill!
I guess the real problem is that these companies cave in so easily. You are free to criticize their work and they should stand behind it. I am not easily swayed by any of this imagery and I've been bombarded by it my whole life. Any real woman is a human being and should be treated as such.
I can see where some of you are coming from with the misogynistic violence-against-sexualized-women angle. I see that it can be interpreted that way but it should still have a right to exist. And you're free to criticize it for what you think it represents.
My interpretation:
1: Ok we got this bald guy who is Hitman. He is the protagonist and will kill anything presented to him in this trailer.
2: Pandering sexy nun assassins. They will be killed by Hitman because what else could possibly happen?
So for me, it didn't really matter who he killed. Could have been nuns, black guys, white guys, robots, a mix of equally racially diverse men, Women and LGBT. It doesn't matter because he will kill them all without any special treatment based on their gender/race/whatever. This is why I disapprove of what happened to RE5. So what if he was killing black guys? He was in a part of Africa (or wherever) where the majority population are ethnically black! That's the setting! They're infected by the zombie virus and seek out non-zombies to kill!
I guess the real problem is that these companies cave in so easily. You are free to criticize their work and they should stand behind it. I am not easily swayed by any of this imagery and I've been bombarded by it my whole life. Any real woman is a human being and should be treated as such.
That was probably just the catalyst for something that a lot of people had been bothered by already. I know it's an issue that's annoyed me for years, the Tropes vs. Women thing and the asshole way some people reacted to it just provided a good chance to actually talk about it.
srsly, every hitman game has had some ridiculous moments in them.. and for everyone who think its sexist or whatever and that hitman is not about this stuff.. they did the same thing for blood money. and i never heard anything about the ads or the girls in blood money it self when that game came out.
http://www.bestrejectedadvertising.com/img/print_indi_L/mostcomplained_hitman _uk.jpg
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/32147/2110595-shocking.jpg
http://www.bestrejectedadvertising.com/img/print_indi_L/mostcomplained_hitman _uk.jpg
http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/32147/2110595-shocking.jpg
NoirVisage
Banned
thank you.
i loved the trailer, it was the first time i got an impression that they were looking towards the source material as far as other characters in the world were concerned. i don't think America is ready for the kind of brutality and sexuality yet, it just can't handle it, maybe its for the best, but i'm glad they took the chance, white knights gonna white knight.
Eh the video didn't bother me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b-N28eG2go&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Also, given the amount of publicity that trailer got, it's pretty likely that people saw it without knowing the tone of the game. In the context of a deliberately cheesy, cartoony game taking inspiration from grindhouse movies (which given some of the comments in this thread I guess the game is?) then the trailer...well, I'd say the trailer is still super dumb, and completely unappealing to me, but maybe not actually offensive. But if someone saw it just as "Hey, a trailer for a new AAA action game!" without context, it could be interpreted very differently.
Oh, I noticed it. Pretty sweet.
MasterOfPastures
Banned
The trailer was in poor context, although it's their fault for not realizing that it might come under scrutiny by the general population.
Now, I eagerly await the overcompensated response: a team of scantily dressed S&M priests.
Now, I eagerly await the overcompensated response: a team of scantily dressed S&M priests.
horrible horrible memories from actually watching those sequences for the first time. forgot how bad they were till I did my recent 1st trophy run. DREBEN YOU BORING MOFO.
lol at "adding compelling context" to the stripper nun assasins
While I agree with your main points, you think this is representative of current day Africa?:
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Wait...
Why are people arguing that "lol sexy nuns" fit in the Hitman universe and then using the chicken suit as defense? The chicken suit is normal - it fits in the context. How are you going to fit sexy latex nuns? It wouldn't be bad if the trailer implies that the setting is for that BDSM fetish club, but nope - they're just generic assassins.
Why are people arguing that "lol sexy nuns" fit in the Hitman universe and then using the chicken suit as defense? The chicken suit is normal - it fits in the context. How are you going to fit sexy latex nuns? It wouldn't be bad if the trailer implies that the setting is for that BDSM fetish club, but nope - they're just generic assassins.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
So they're adding characterization instead of cutting stuff out entirely?
I dunno, I guess that's acceptable. I wouldn't want it censored or cut out.
I dunno, I guess that's acceptable. I wouldn't want it censored or cut out.
Meccanical
Member
This is a simple concept no one can seem to grasp.
I'm ok if this gives us a better story for the game (everybody wins there) but not if it's because they fear the reaction of some puritain people. This world is a bit too sensitive, I wonder what happened to "putting some water in your wine". And again, if something isn't addressed to you, leave it be.
faceless007
Member
Because they have backstories now, duh. Backstories that give perfectly logical and sensible reasons why assassins who need to be agile and inconspicuous would dress up in skin-tight restrictive bondage outfits and wear six-inch heels.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
What bothers me is they think Hitman is a grindhouse. That made me wtf.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
While I agree with your main points, you think this is representative of current day Africa?:
When did Capcom say they were making a game that was focused on capturing modern day life in Africa?
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Don't forget hammerspace!
While I agree with your main points, you think this is representative of current day Africa?:
In some parts. Undiscovered tribes and stuff. I should have clarified, my opinion is based solely on the launch trailer (which had a third world setting) and the debacle surrounding it. I don't know how RE5 turned out after that.
Uh
Resident Evil 5 takes place in 2009
http://residentevil.wikia.com/2009
http://biohaze.com/timeline/2005.pdf
While I agree with your main points, you think this is representative of current day Africa?:
My understanding is that there are still parts of Africa that do live traditionally, yes.
Yes.
Doubly so if you found them attractive.
Welp...
Ingueferroque
Banned
What?
Messofanego
Banned
I haven't even seen the level, so I can't judge why these assassins are wearing fetish nun costumes.
Maybe that should be the next level they show since they've shown Chinatown and Hope Street.
Maybe that should be the next level they show since they've shown Chinatown and Hope Street.
No, it just means you don't mind unnecessary misogynistic and sexist imagery (or are aware of its contribution to perceived gender inequality, which seems to be the most common criticism of the trailer).
It was a trailer for a cloned super assassin game, not a thought provoking movie about the inequality of our daily lives.
47 could've been stalking up on the pope who is oiled up and spanking choir boys for all I care.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Yes and District 9 takes place in 1982 in South Africa.
Does that mean it's based in reality? Resident Evil 5 wasn't a game made with the intent to explore life of modern day Africans.
Context. Context. Context.
DerZuhälter
Member
I'll play it nun the less.
That was my problem, really. I never played Hitman and when I saw that trailer I was like "WTF are they doing???" It was just brutal violence against these women for what seemed like an eternity. But I agree they should stick with their vision.. just do a better job at explaining wtf is going on.
The thing is, you can't selectively have media that does or doesn't comment on things. It's not like a message or subtext exists only if the author declares his intention that it exists; it exists because that's the way the media conveys information. In a cinematic trailer, that's primarily visual imagery, cinematography, and secondarily narrative structure and sound design. And in every instance that trailer was designed to demean women, whether that was the intent or not.
You know that aphorism, "life imitates art imitates life?" The truth in that is that we make artifacts that reflect our values, and those values go on to shape the way we actually act, and those deeds then get recreated in art as virtuous... rinse, repeat.
This trailer reflects the mindset of its developers - a mindset that marginalizes and objectifies women. But more than that, it glorifies those values on a public stage where lots of people watch, enjoy, and absorb them. And it reinforces existing gender stereotypes and patriarchal power structures - perhaps in microscopic ways and without anyone consciously realizing it, but it's still out there now, doing it.
Was this created to 'just' be a fun, schlocky game trailer? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't mean it doesn't say something, nor that that something can't be destructive.
The problem is when the portrayed gender roles we have seen in the Hitman trailer are constantly taking place and are re-produced in media, and especially in video games. If you are a female and are constantly being bombarded by the perception of women as being inferior to men or as solely sexual objects, then you end up with a scenario where you only end up believing in the negative gender role and trying to fulfil that particular pre-determined role. You basically end up with the equivalent of this. I'm not saying there isn't room for male-pandering sexual imagery in contemporary video games (as long as it is treated with the proper context), but when it makes out 80 % of the general female representation in video games, there is an imbalance.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So essentially, stereotypes then? I mean, a game doesn't have to be a documentary to be accurate. With that reasoning one can pretty much excuse the movie North for being fine despite its horrible stereotyping.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
They were trying to kill him.
How were they objectified? How was the Hitman in any way more fleshed out as a "person" than they were in that trailer?
How were they marginalized? They were a real threat to his life, which I would say makes them rather potent.
It's not like he just shot a bunch of women in the parking lot on his way to his car as if he was stepping on a bug.
Yeah? So does this garbage:
Should we force them to rewrite their books as well?
I don't want to turn this into a RE5 discussion, but the point I'm making is that it's pretty obvious they chose to take elements of African tribal culture and turn them into grotesque representation in order to make menacing enemies for a horror game. They weren't trying to make a game that commented on Apartheid. You shouldn't hold cheap entertainment to the same level as philosophical treatise or expect the same content.
Yeah, that's why they're so bad, imo.
The trailer was bad in general, but their lack of context seems silly regardless.
And admittedly, you can usually spin the meaning of some imagery in several ways (although the one in the trailer is so over the top, that is hard to) but i'm very curious to see how they'll actually justify these characters ingame.
That said, the fact that they didn't stood their ground, tells me there wasn't a very strong artistic reasoning behind that design choice.
BadAss2961
Member
Good thing they seem to be giving more context to the characters instead of taking them out.
I'm not certain if this is actually misogynistic. I don't think IO hates women. Unnecessary? Sure.
As Ookami said, it would make a lot more sense if they were in a club or something. These kinds of outfits aren't exactly foreign to the Hitman series, but they usually appear in a setting where they're appropriate.
It is really. Doesn't make for a good Hitman trailer in general.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah essentially my problem more is the lack of context and well, senselessness, regardless of gender issues. It feels pointless.
It doesn't matter whether or not it was intentional* - like Campster mentioned above, the imagery is created and put out into the world and exists, and thus contributes to the misogynistic ideals that the trailer adheres to.
Btw I completely agree about the senselessness. But I think that's a separate criticism that sometimes confuses people in this discussion.
*I don't think IO deliberately knew, I just think they work in a male-dominated milieu in which the people in charge are unaware of gender issues and how media affects society and individuals. At least that's my impression of the Danish veteran game development landscape.
EDIT: Seeing how Visual Works were the creators of the trailer, one might also wonder how much influence IO actually has had on its screenplay, production, etc. For all we know, IO may simply have handed some concept art of the nuns to Visual Works and they produced the garbage we have seen.
I just want my disguisement simulator, is that hard?
Yes, because RE4 on other hand perfectly captured Spain countryside. Who gives a fuck, seriously, it's Resident Evil.
While I agree with your main points, you think this is representative of current day Africa?:
Yes, because RE4 on other hand perfectly captured Spain countryside. Who gives a fuck, seriously, it's Resident Evil.