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[akira28]

There's a discussion that could be had. Probably not on GAF, but it could be had. Bisexual men who don't get tested, and the logical consequences of such.

But with Beyonce "shaking her booty" in Africa to talk about AIDS and the implication that black celebrities and social figures aren't doing enough to combat AIDS in America. We have set up since the 80s, governmental systems, state, local, and federal meant to educate kids in school about the dangers of AIDS and STDs. What's a concert supposed to do? They could do more, but why should they have to? The established mechanisms should stop being defunded so they can do their jobs. In Africa they don't use condoms as a rule, they just aren't there, not because there's not a market, but culturally, using prophylactics and birth control just isn't taught or talked about, and people have been working over there because AIDS and HIV is at epidemic levels. Hence the elevated focus.

We don't need celebrities, we need to stop blocking sex ed and stop pushing abstinence only education.


and oh. some of the posts in this thread...

 

[ivysaur12]

There's a discussion that could be had. Probably not on GAF, but it could be had. Bisexual men who don't get tested, and the logical consequences of such.

But with Beyonce "shaking her booty" in Africa to talk about AIDS and the implication that black celebrities and social figures aren't doing enough to combat AIDS in America. We have set up since the 80s, governmental systems, state, local, and federal meant to educate kids in school about the dangers of AIDS and STDs. What's a concert supposed to do? They could do more, but why should they have to? The established mechanisms should stop being defunded so they can do their jobs. In Africa they don't use condoms as a rule, they just aren't there, not because there's not a market, but culturally, using prophylactics and birth control just isn't taught or talked about, and people have been working over there because AIDS and HIV is at epidemic levels. Hence the elevated focus.

We don't need celebrities, we need to stop blocking sex ed and stop pushing abstinence only education.


and oh. some of the posts in this thread...

This, right here, is the real answer.

The gay community, especially the younger gay community, also needs to step up and start being smarter about unprotected sex. Use a fucking condom, guys.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Is this an indirect way of implying people simply don't know that [unprotected] sex can a) lead to pregnancy and b) is unsafe with multiple partners? I don't understand

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This, right here, is the real answer.

The gay community, especially the younger gay community, also needs to step up and start being smarter about unprotected sex. Use a fucking condom, guys.

everyone needs to fucking use a condom. we need some of these mothafuckas to take some responsibility and acquire some. they can be had for free...so to that end, those free resources need to be communicated and championed.

In fact, you know what they should do? Distribute them for free at black barber shops and hair salons. If people are still having sex without condoms on even then...fuck it. It'll be time to hope that science can come up with a vaccine. Even then, other STDs will be a problem.

You don't need a college diploma to understand that unprotected sex a) can led to pregnancy b) is unsafe with multiple partners. Not that I have any reason to reject the socioeconomic factors [hypothesis], but rationally speaking, how much of a role can it play?

it plays a big fucking role. I don't feel like pontificating about it, though. socioeconomic issues are more than just how much money is in your pocket. it's who you're surrounded with by...the mentality and mindset...the amount of hope and regard for their lives.

and of course, one has to have a firm grasp on the reality that you're not invulnerable. too many people don't think it can happen to them.

 

[Devolution]

You don't need a college diploma to understand that unprotected sex a) can led to pregnancy b) is unsafe with multiple partners. Not that I have any reason to reject the socioeconomic factors [hypothesis], but rationally speaking, how much of a role can it play?

Well you've got the whole "I think I'm invincible" when one is a teen bullshit and without proper education about the realities of pregnancy and stds, they tend to do stupid shit. Then you have places where they think abstinence only education is optimal, instead of just providing contraception.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

So does this mean I should get a divorce?

 

[Bleepey]

Yes, I fully agree. Deleted the posts that contributed absolutely nothing, and will try to keep it clean. It's a real issue that merits discussion, and that discussion should be possible on GAF.

Some shocking stuff in the OP too, I had no idea about this:


I had to look up what MSM stood for by the way, is it commonly used?

In the UK it is.

I guess i should really contribute to this discussion., I am Black African in London currently doing a masters in public health and i have about 3 years experience in sexual health from my time with charities like THT and other groups. To be honest, I am not really sure. We did a lot of outreach in places like churches trying to reduce stigma, talk to people about HIV and get people to talk about it. The disease s is still strongly stigmatised, there are pentecostal preachers who advocate faith instead of antiretroviral medication and some people stop taking their medication to prove their faith, some people have been thrown out of their churches after coming forward as HIV+, some women have been labeled whores and have had partners want nothing to do with them because they had casual sex, carried condoms with them and insisted on using them, apparently dry sex is quite common among Africans and by dry sex i mean sex with herbs that reduce lubrication and make sex dryer (the guys my age couldn't get our heads around it either), the disease is still seen as a gay disease, from my time doing outreach in black areas and encouraging people to do HIV tests, some people were just reckless,others were really reluctant to know their status and it was difficult convincing them that it is better to know their status than to not know it. Some of my friends are just fucking reckless, they do not think about HIV at all, they have frequent casual sex but don't insist on using a condom at all time and they are keen to inform me of how good it feels without condoms. A friend of mine went without a condom after a girl said she had a morning after pill and would abort any kid produced without telling him. I was 3 minutes away and could have gotten him a condom in 1. I was like wow, you are a dumbass.

everyone needs to fucking use a condom. we need some of these mothafuckas to take some responsibility and acquire some. they can be had for free...so to that end, those free resources need to be communicated and championed.

In fact, you know what they should do? Distribute them for free at black barber shops and hair salons. If people are still having sex without condoms on even then...fuck it. It'll be time to hope that science can come up with a vaccine. Even then, other STDs will be a problem.


.

We do that here. I don't know how people don't use condoms. I never buy them. I can go to the pharmacist, the GP, the gum clinic, the walk in centre, the needle exchange, schools, barber shops, hair salons, hospitals, charities and that's off the top of my head.

 

[highrider]

This subject is a huge minefield, but here's an idea to kick around: black guys usually have huge dicks, and it's probably less painful for a woman to have a huge cock shoved into the 'other' place, maybe vaginal sex is just too uncomfortable for the girl, unless theres a reason (having kids, which is so awesome). Mine complains about it all the time, but not much anal, unless you're talking about cleaning stuff. And ironing.

lol. you would be a great guest at a stuffy dinner party.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Well you've got the whole "I think I'm invincible" when one is a teen bullshit and without proper education about the realities of pregnancy and stds, they tend to do stupid shit. Then you have places where they think abstinence only education is optimal, instead of just providing contraception.

But that's not due to education - that's due to stupidity and lack of self control. It's not as if they don't know A and B, they do but they just rather not care for that moment where they think with their other head.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

But that's not due to education - that's due to stupidity and lack of self control. It's not as if they don't know A and B, they do but they just rather not care for that moment where they think with their other head.

impulsiveness is countered by education. all roads go through education.

 

[Devolution]

impulsiveness is countered by education. all roads go through education.

This. I'm not sure what you're arguing Meus. That a decent sexual education can't assist in the problem? We had a non-profit clinic hand condoms out at our school on Wednesdays, I'm sure that helped rather than hurt.

 

[akira28]

I have to buy my condoms...the free ones are always too small and flimsy to make decent water balloons :\

 

[Leucrota]

This makes me wonder if I know anyone who is HIV+ and at the same time hate the education establishment for not teaching fucking condoms like a motherfucker.

 

[Zanosuke]

In the latest episode of Radiolab called Patient Zero, they have long segment of how far back scientists can track AIDS, and the first known location. Highly recommended!

You can listen to it here:

http://www.radiolab.org/2011/nov/14/aids/

 

[Bleepey]

http://www.nmanet.org/publications/December2010/OC1198.pdf

Downlow black men, HBCUs and black women.

 

[Joel Was Right]

impulsiveness is countered by education. all roads go through education.

What exactly does education mean in this context? My point is that I'm sure 99.99% of the world's population realises babies are not delivered by stalks. I agree, the more education the better, or specifically the more practical assistance (in condoms) the better. But in reality you only need to be told this once and it would sink in.

A 14 year old who impregnated his girlfriend knows how that happened and knew how it happens before he had sex with her but he still chose to not use a condom. Same goes for the 24 year old who made the same choice.

When the education requires you to actively make an intelligent decision when your desires are telling you something else, failing to make that right decision is not a failure of that education itself [especially when its as basic as this] but rather the failure of that individual. After speaking to some guys who openly state that they don't wear a condom, what do you think their reasoning for this is? "Er, whats a condom do?". No. They place the burden of responsibility on the girl [to be on the pill] whilst they boast that they want to real sex, skin to skin and not rubber in between.

If you see me post in 9 months time and say my wife/girlfriend is pregnant after I didn't use any contraceptives, then you'll know it's not because "Meus wasn't educated" but rather that I made a personal choice at that particular moment to not use contraceptives, especially if its readily available.

This is just common sense, but then again we all sometimes fail in remembering common sense - we don't blame it on not being aware of the consequences but rather ourselves. However this narrative is almost unheard of in these discussions

tl;dr. The lack of education explanation for topics like this or unwanted pregnancies does not make sense

 

[SSJ1Goku]

I really wish people would STOP blaming down low black men. That is NOT the reason that black women are contracting HIV:

Vid 1
Vid 2

I did work last year in the black commuity regarding this topic. The amount of bullshit that comes out of black women's mouths is amazing. The main reason that black women contract HIV is because of the type of guys that they are having unprotect sex with, which are the same types of guys who go to jail. Getting anally raped in prison does not make you a homosexual. It is also possible to get HIV from sharing needles. After these guys get out of prison do you honestly believe that these thugs and tough guys are going to admit that got fucked in their ass or used needle drugs. NO! They are going to go right back to their normal thug behavior of sleeping with multiple black women UNPROTECTED! The child out of wedlock problem in the black community is a sign of unprotected sex. Both problems are connected.

EDIT: This goes back to what I said a long time ago. Black women could fix multiple problems in the black community if they just used fucking condoms

EDIT2: Official Says ‘Down Low’ Men Not Responsible for High HIV Rates Among Black Women

 

[akira28]

What exactly does education mean in this context? My point is that I'm sure 99.99% of the world's population realises babies are not delivered by stalks. I agree, the more education the better, or specifically the more practical assistance (in condoms) the better. But in reality you only need to be told this once and it would sink in.

A 14 year old who impregnated his girlfriend knows how that happened and knew how it happens before he had sex with her but he still chose to not use a condom. Same goes for the 24 year old who made the same choice.

Mechanics and consequences are different things. The 14 yr old is not going to internalize the potential consequences. Not on the first telling, not on the 2nd telling, maybe not even on the 3rd. Not when AIDS and HIV are invisible things they never see, and only hear rumors about or see on TV. They need training, not just education, sexual health training. Knowledge of all STDs, protective methods, social situations, self control, guidance and mentoring. They need all of that, and lots aren't getting any of that.

SSJ: Popularized BS notwithstanding, what are the actual figures? All those infected women had sex with men who had homosexual sex in prison? And you're implying that it was mostly rape. I don't think the numbers would match, but that's only a guess. I would look at bi-sexuality, unprotected sex, and lack of testing before I would say it's some kind of fallout from prison culture.

 

[Joel Was Right]

Mechanics and consequences are different things. The 14 yr old is not going to internalize the potential consequences. Not on the first telling, not on the 2nd telling, maybe not even on the 3rd. Not when AIDS and HIV are invisible things they never see, and only hear rumors about or see on TV. They need training, not just education, sexual health training. Knowledge of all STDs, protective methods, social situations, self control, guidance and mentoring. They need all of that, and lots aren't getting any of that.

No one can realistically internalise the consequences until they actually face them, this is why we have high teen pregnancy rates despite sex education. In other words, the only real education - the only time we learn - is when we are living with the consequences rather than reading about them on a piece of paper.

But having said that, this 14 year old can formulate that unprotected sex = pregnancy = do not want = do not have unprotected sex. It's easier than adding up sums with your fingers. I don't see the need to complicate it. People mess up.

 

[speculawyer]

So what is a 'down low black man'?

 

[akira28]

We're talking about AIDS and HIV though, invisible enemies, not swelled bellies and happy babies.

So what is a 'down low black man'?

Someone who has sex with men, but pretends to be a totally heterosexual male with relationships with women. And as a result of the laxity against STDs in the gay community(recent and factual) with use of protection and fear against infection decreasing, combined with a perceived monogamous relationship with a woman, you have the possibility of cross-infection.

 

[Yo Gotti]

Yay more bullshit fear mongering against black people. Don't sleep with black women you guys!

 

[DrFunk]

So what is a 'down low black man'?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=down low

 

[Joel Was Right]

We're talking about AIDS and HIV though, invisible enemies, not swelled bellies and happy babies.

True. Ultimately the narrative here is unprotected sex and, although to a lesser extent, I feel my point about individual mistakes rather than ignorance still holds weight

 

[AtomskEater]

So what is a 'down low black man'?

IIRC it is a black man who secretly has sex with other men while outwardly having sex with women.
Edit: Dangit.

 

[akira28]

Information, education, training, helps guard against those individual mistakes. True story. I don't discount personal responsibility, but forewarned is forearmed.

 

[speculawyer]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=down low

IIRC it is a black man who secretly has sex with other men while outwardly having sex with women.
Edit: Dangit.

Thanks. Too much anti-gay stigma in the community it seems. :-(

 

[SSJ1Goku]

So what is a 'down low black man'?

A black man who is gay but hides it and has sex with a heterosexual female. Very rare. The amount of gay men in the black community is like 2-3%. The amount of gay black men on the down low is probably less than a quarter of that. Then you would have to have one of these guys be in a relationship or marry a black woman, which is funny because black women already consider that being a damn lottery. And finally he would have to have HIV. IT IS RARE!

 

[Joel Was Right]

Information, education, training, helps guard against those individual mistakes. True story.

I'm not saying otherwise. The distinction I'm making is that high figures indicative of unprotected sex are not necessarily due to a lack of education.

 

[Count Dookkake]

A black man who is gay but hides it and has sex with a heterosexual female. Very rare. The amount of gay men in the black community is like 2-3%. The amount of gay black men on the down low is probably less than a quarter of that. Then you would have to have one of these guys marry a black woman, which is funny because black women already consider marriage a damn lottery. And finally he would have to have HIV. IT IS RARE!

2-3%?

That seems a bit low.

Also, wouldn't DL guys not be counted as part of that percentage, since they act as though they are straight?

If that percentage is correct, then it is entirely possible that there are more DL gays than there are out gays.

 

[akira28]

And since there's a major stigma in the black community, would that low number be anywhere near accurate anyway?

Instead, somehow they're all getting raped in prison, and instead of getting tested, pass it on to women in such massive numbers? and no one has yet found a correlation?

 

[SSJ1Goku]

SSJ: Popularized BS notwithstanding, what are the actual figures? All those infected women had sex with men who had homosexual sex in prison? And you're implying that it was mostly rape. I don't think the numbers would match, but that's only a guess. I would look at bi-sexuality, unprotected sex, and lack of testing before I would say it's some kind of fallout from prison culture.

That was not really the point I was trying to make. The culture of unprotected sex in the black community is what I was pointing out. One hood motherfucker has sex with multiple black women. Now multiple black women have HIV from one guy. If those women are sleeping with multiple guys then there is even more spreading of the diease.

 

[Count Dookkake]

And since there's a major stigma in the black community, would that low number be anywhere near accurate anyway?

Yeah, I suspect it is about as accurate as the statement "In Iran we don't have homosexuals."

 

[SSJ1Goku]

2-3%?

That seems a bit low.

Also, wouldn't DL guys not be counted as part of that percentage, since they act as though they are straight?

If that percentage is correct, then it is entirely possible that there are more DL gays than there are out gays.

I pulled the down low number out my ass. And I had to guess on the gay number competely. Studies say 2-4% but I'm not sure how that even works.

 

[Dead Man]

There's a discussion that could be had. Probably not on GAF, but it could be had. Bisexual men who don't get tested, and the logical consequences of such.

But with Beyonce "shaking her booty" in Africa to talk about AIDS and the implication that black celebrities and social figures aren't doing enough to combat AIDS in America. We have set up since the 80s, governmental systems, state, local, and federal meant to educate kids in school about the dangers of AIDS and STDs. What's a concert supposed to do? They could do more, but why should they have to? The established mechanisms should stop being defunded so they can do their jobs. In Africa they don't use condoms as a rule, they just aren't there, not because there's not a market, but culturally, using prophylactics and birth control just isn't taught or talked about, and people have been working over there because AIDS and HIV is at epidemic levels. Hence the elevated focus.

We don't need celebrities, we need to stop blocking sex ed and stop pushing abstinence only education.


and oh. some of the posts in this thread...

I am not a fan of the 'blame the bisexuals' at the start of your post, but the bolded is the truest thing that has been said in the thread.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I pulled the down low number out my ass. And I had to guess on the gay number competely. Studies say 2-4% but I'm not sure how that even works.

Just as you pull everything else from your sexist, self hating ass. Every time you enter a thread on race you shit on black women.

 

[ivysaur12]

I pulled the down low number out my ass. And I had to guess on the gay number competely. Studies say 2-4% but I'm not sure how that even works.

Studies say 3% - 12%, most say around 7%.

 

[SSJ1Goku]

And since there's a major stigma in the black community, would that low number be anywhere near accurate anyway?

Does not matter. Even if a black man were on the down low what are the odds he is having sex with a black woman?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Studies say 3% - 12%, most say around 7%.

Any idea if that includes closeted dudes?

Does not matter. Even if a black man were on the down low what are the odds he is having sex with a black woman?

Pretty good odds, if he is trying to maintain the illusion he is straight.

 

[SSJ1Goku]

Studies say 3% - 12%, most say around 7%.

The most recent one say 4% at the highest. The one saying 100 black women for ever one black man or some bullshit.

EDIT: This bullshit

 

[PhoenixDark]

Pretty high, if he is trying to maintain the illusion he is straight.

Exactly. These men are regulated to the black community - they get out of jail and go home, where they are surrounded by black women.

 

[SSJ1Goku]

Pretty high, if he is trying to maintain the illusion he is straight.

70% of black women are single. There is no illusion to maintain.

 

[i_am_ben]

everyone forgets or ignores bisexuality.

 

[Captain Sparrow]

The real problem is the destructive lifestyle that some black people choose. The fact is that many statistics out there do not favor black people (graduation, single parents, employment, etc etc). Statistics aren't racist, they prove something is severely wrong.

Saying education on sex/AIDs is going to help is the most asinine thing I have ever heard. Black people are dropping out of high school at alarming rates, but they will learn from this, right? This very culture needs to go away. The "education" needed here needs to be introduced on a far larger scale.

 

[Count Dookkake]

EDIT: This bullshit

That is bullshit.

lol at how they add the numbers.

 

[akira28]

.....*leaves*

 

[SSJ1Goku]

everyone forgets or ignores bisexuality.

Nobody is ignoring it. But just because someone is bisexual does not mean they are on the down low. For example if a guy is with a man for a year and then decides be with a woman then no promiscuity took place.
This is what pisses me off about people regarding this topic of gay people and down low and all that jazz. They try to peg gay people as sex crazed deviants who try to poke anyting.

 

[Cousteau]

.....*leaves*

*on the ground*

 

[SSJ1Goku]

Studies say 3% - 12%, most say around 7%.

I did not mean to question you Ivy. Let's go with your knowledge for a sec. You being a homosexual would you say that you have MORE knowledge on how to protect youself from things like HIV? I would think yes. Why would that be any differ for a homosexual black male? I would think the homosexual community would be the MOST educated on things like HIV. Mind you this post is going along with what you are saying, not against.

 

[akira28]

*on the ground*

you dare call my bluff, sir? (I did in fact leave. I only decided to come back once this cup had vodka in it.)

...but seriously, the real problem is some people just choose to be self destructive. And education helping is the dumbest thing he's heard? Really?


Also, for the whole DL brother thing. Picture this. You're in a monogamous relationship with a woman and you habitually don't use protection, she's on the pill or whatever. You also are having an affair with another man, you use condoms usually, but there is contact, and there are chances. Now, you're not going to suddenly bring condoms into your hetero relationship because that will draw suspicion. This can also happen in hetero infidelity instances of course, and does, but the question is, how did the HIV get into one set from another set, there had to be a large enough crossing path for those numbers to be able to self-perpetuate without needing the homosexuality to be a factor. You have a high instance set, and a low instance one, bisexual relations is the crosspath, whatever you call yourself. Once that major vector was breached and factors started crossing into lower instanced sets, then those instances increased and maintained themselves. But there's a reason why heterosex is low instanced and homosex is high, and it has nothing to do with morality or unfairly stigmatizing or blaming anyone. The same with intravenous drug users versus any other sort.