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[dark10x]

Hmmm, it took them 7 hours huh? That's basically as long as Halo 3.

The Oranage Box truly is one of the best values in gaming. I somewhat envy a friend of mine who will be playing this for the first time (he's never actually played ANY version of Half-Life 2). To experience it all from the beginning without any of the bugs or performance issues (which most people had to deal with back in 2004) would be incredible.

I plan to replay HL2 and Episode 1 before moving to EP2 in order to get the full effect. Can't wait!

 

[jjasper]

I have never played Half Life 2 in any form, already have it preordered.

 

[The M.O.B]

I have never played Half Life 2 in any form, already have it preordered.

Good Man, you have done yourself a favor. I expect it will take you about 20 to get through hl2,ep1, and ep2.

Hl2=~10 hours
Ep1=~3 hours
EP2=~7 hours coming from this mag at least.

Edit: All of these depend on what kind of player you are I guess.

 

[plagiarize]

Hmmm, it took them 7 hours huh? That's basically as long as Halo 3.

The Oranage Box truly is one of the best values in gaming. I somewhat envy a friend of mine who will be playing this for the first time (he's never actually played ANY version of Half-Life 2). To experience it all from the beginning without any of the bugs or performance issues (which most people had to deal with back in 2004) would be incredible.

I plan to replay HL2 and Episode 1 before moving to EP2 in order to get the full effect. Can't wait!

me too. me too.

7 hours will probably be a bit longer than the gaf average, but i'm not worried because my play time of episode 1 came in right around the real average of 5 hours 30 minutes. valve have been saying this one is around 7 hours, and their estimate of episode 1 was right on the nose for me.

Good Man, you have done yourself a favor. I expect it will take you about 20 to get through hl2,ep1, and ep2.

Hl2=~10 hours
Ep1=~3 hours
EP2=~7 hours coming from this mag at least.

i'm so glad i don't play games like you.

average completion time of Episode 1 is 5 hours 38 minutes. http://www.steampowered.com/status/ep1/

 

[immy]

Episode 1 is only 3 hours????

 

[Big-E]

Episode 1 is only 3 hours????

I beat it in that time first time through. Don't know how others did with it.

 

[guise]

pros: it's valve
cons: i'm poor

Thats how i see it too

 

[Chairman Yang]

We probably won't see new weapons until HL3. I don't get the complaint about terrible weapons tho.

Yeah, I actually really like the weapons. They just feel right to fire (something a lot of devs screw up by not making proper sound effects, damage levels, etc.), and the set covers a wide spectrum of possible gunplay--long-range, short-range, careful placed shots, suppressive fire, etc. I'd be fine if they stuck with the same set for more episodes.

 

[Big Icarus]

Hmmm, for some reason I thought Gordon would be picking up the portal gun at the end of episode 2, since they spent time developing it for this engine and everything. :/

 

[dfyb]

nooo portal is short =(

custom maps will bring plenty of life into it.

edit: unless you're unfortunate enough to buy the console version of orange box

 

[FartOfWar]

Shawn Elliot mentioned Portal was short in the last GFW podcast, but is still excellent, filled with charm and sometimes hilarious.

And the Portal Level Editor can't come soon enough, this game is going to turn those cogs in a LOT of peoples minds, and even if it is Blocks and Square Rooms.

It also comes with challenges/puzzles that aren't part of the game proper. The three hours figure does not factor those in. Seriously, in my mind, the game's length isn't an issue. At all.

 

[FartOfWar]

I think I agree with Evilore there. I'm not a huge fan of the way the weapons feel and interact with one another.

But the Gravity Gun is always fun.

The magnum and crossbow? What? Them shits are hot.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I'm not a huge fan of the way the weapons feel and interact with one another.

I don't understand.

 

[Mindlog]

Portal multi has so much potential. Randomize some platforms thrown in some objects and:

Race each other to the end
Race each other to the end while being able to disrupt portals/set traps with yours :lol
Race each other to an end while using the environment to change what your opponent can do while he is simultaneously doing the same to you. Puzzle game/Skill game completely interwoven and evolving with the players. I have seriously high hopes something like this comes to be.

 

[Ferrio]

Portal multi has so much potential. Randomize some platforms thrown in some objects and:

Race each other to the end
Race each other to the end while being able to disrupt portals/set traps with yours :lol
Race each other to an end while using the environment to change what your opponent can do while he is simultaneously doing the same to you. Puzzle game/Skill game completely interwoven and evolving with the players. I have seriously high hopes something like this comes to be.

Getting some poor sap stuck in an infinite loop would rock.

 

[Davidion]

Getting some poor sap stuck in an infinite loop would rock.

There's air control in the HL2 engine if I'm not mistaken, so anyone can escape an infinite loop with a little time.

Unless there's something built into the portal physics which prevents this. That would suck.

Or if you let someone fall through the loop for 10 minutes and kill the loop and have the poor guy slam into the ground at terminal velocity. That, theoretically, would suck more. :lol

 

[Mindlog]

Or getting them falling from a fairly high distance and then just continually shooting the ground underneath them.

However consider that if they have great aim they could shoot a portal underneath you if they are quick enough >

seriously, so many possibilities for something different from the traditional kill you ASAP deathmatch

even though I do miss traditional deathmatch on occasion, haven't been satisfied since Q3 CPMA

but htat's not important now, Portal pls

 

[jarosh]

thought this blurb about portal was interesting:
"stay seated during the ending credits and turn up the speakers."

they also keep going on about the awesome sense of humor and about how charming the game and its protagonists are.

 

[The Hermit]

Love you Jarosh!!

I almost forgot about this game... man, portal is going to be insane!

 

[EviLore]

The magnum and crossbow? What? Them shits are hot.

This is a pretty old argument on my end, and one I tend to bring up any time I get involved in HL2 discussion, but here we go again:


HL2's shooter mechanics aren't very strong. Shooting feedback -- weapon sounds, body responses in non-lethal and lethal shots, and environmental response -- don't stand out, with exception of the acceptable death ragdoll. Of course I'm not really expecting environmental destruction in a 2004 FPS (though the episodes don't get as much slack there), but as part of the presentation, any sort of particle effects or even really basic smoke/dust feedback would be something. Shooting feedback is something that F.E.A.R., for all its level design woes, nails *completely*.

As for the guns themselves, you mention the magnum and the crossbow. Sure, those are fine; the crossbow and to a lesser extent the magnum are one shot one kill weapons with no randomization. There's really no way to suck like that. The other weapons fall flat to varying degrees, with the SMG being at the head of the suckitude class. It's lame sounding, weak, horribly inaccurate, and worst of all is what you almost always have the most ammo for. The ammo situation is the worst part of HL2, with its arbitrary low cap on ammo capacity and hand-holding ammo placement. You never get much ammo for the good weapons, and probably 90% of the time you'll be using the 9mm pistol, SMG, or shotgun (which isn't bad, but still doesn't feel very powerful, even in double shot mode).

The handholding comes in via the low capacity. For example, any time there is an armored opponent that you're supposed to kill (helicopter or strider), there will always be an RPG ammo crate. IIRC it's possible to kill a helicopter with three shots if you have perfect placement (not sure, it's been a while), but most of the time IIRC you'll take 4 shots to down one. Your RPG ammo capacity is 3. It's so gamey. All the other weapons have low capacities too, meaning that you're mostly stuck using what the game decides to give you ammo for, unless you really conserve. And even then, you won't be using that conserved ammo for very long, since you'll quickly run out and be stuck with whatever ammo the game is giving you at that moment. It's all too overthought and rigid for my tastes.

Oh, and no interesting/quirky weapons except for the gravity gun. HL1 had those cool weapons to compliment the basic pistol/smg/shotgun setup.

 

[Draft]

HL2 is kind of a shitty first person shooter. Examine your hearts, true gamers, you know this to be fact. The enemies are mostly dumb, the guns are mostly weak and/or boring, and the gunfights lack visceral thrills. The exception is rocket battles with striders, choppers or those flying bug things. Those are hell of exciting.

HL2 is kind of an amazing first person puzzler/adventure game. The art is impeccable, the sound design superb. The characters are memorable, the narrative is gripping. The gravity gun and the physics engine creates all sorts of neat puzzles and environmental hazards.

If HL2 Ep. 3 or whatever comes next was ultra light on boring gun battles with the combine, and heavy on puzzle solving, chopping headcrab zombies up with the gravity gun, and killing striders with rocket launchers... well, you wouldn't find me complaining.

 

[FartOfWar]

HL2 is kind of a shitty first person shooter. Examine your hearts, true gamers, you know this to be fact. The enemies are mostly dumb, the guns are mostly weak and/or boring, and the gunfights lack visceral thrills. The exception is rocket battles with striders, choppers or those flying bug things. Those are hell of exciting.

HL2 is kind of an amazing first person puzzler/adventure game. The art is impeccable, the sound design superb. The characters are memorable, the narrative is gripping. The gravity gun and the physics engine creates all sorts of neat puzzles and environmental hazards.

If HL2 Ep. 3 or whatever comes next was ultra light on boring gun battles with the combine, and heavy on puzzle solving, chopping headcrab zombies up with the gravity gun, and killing striders with rocket launchers... well, you wouldn't find me complaining.

I've examined my heart and disagree about "mostly dumb enemies," "boring guns," and "weak gunfights." The smg and pistol suck, but the shotgun, magnum, pulse rifle, bug bait, crossbow, gravity gun are fine or great. The enemies do die with relatively few hits which might make them seem less intelligent than Halo's allegedly brilliant AI.

 

[Blader]

Portal has a story?!

Didn't know that.

 

[AstroLad]

I've examined my heart and disagree about "mostly dumb enemies," "boring guns," and "weak gunfights." The smg and pistol suck, but the shotgun, magnum, pulse rifle, bug bait, crossbow, gravity gun are fine or great. The enemies do die with relatively few hits which might make them seem less intelligent than Halo's allegedly brilliant AI.

Thank God. That was way too many posts without a swipe at Halo. I was thinking about bringing dual needlers into the discussion just to give you a jumpstart.

 

[Draft]

I've examined my heart and disagree about "mostly dumb enemies," "boring guns," and "weak gunfights." The smg and pistol suck, but the shotgun, magnum, pulse rifle, bug bait, crossbow, gravity gun are fine or great. The enemies do die with relatively few hits which might make them seem less intelligent than Halo's allegedly brilliant AI.

I was actually thinking the Combine come off as mostly dumb compared to their USMC counterparts in HL1, though now that you mention it, Halo's Elites also provide a pretty telling counterpoint to the average HL2 enemies weaksauce AI.

When you play FEAR, which is full of nasty fucks fully intent and capable of killing you for even the slightest slip up, then switch to HL2, which is full of dumbasses who think that crouching down in the open or rushing you from across an open field is good battle tactics, I don't see how an unbiased gamer can claim HL2 is an exceptional FPS. It's shooting gameplay is average at best, and downright disappointing at worst.

I don't know why that is. Maybe because HL2 is more wide open than HL1, and it's harder to make smart enemies in a setting like that. Maybe it's because the Gravity Gun completely negates grenades, which were an integral part of HL1 Marine nastiness. Either way, as much as the game took a step forward in presentation and immersion, it took a step back in pure FPS gameplay.

 

[Jenga]

I have no doubt that Portal will have long long legs in the mod/map community.

Exactly. I can't wait to see if the guy behind Mistake of Pythagoras or the guy behind Metastasis will make any puzzles. TF2 and Portal will have long legs.

 

[beelzebozo]

i don't know that valve even aspires to have radically difficult a.i. i could be misinterpreting this line, but from the gamasutra article on valve's "cabals":

By placing traditional combat action in more challenging environments we were able to intensify the feeling of tension and suspense.

you can interpret that a number of ways, but what i got from it was that the environments themselves would be as much of a challenge as the enemies, and that combining the two would make for something really compelling. would i argue that the a.i. in half-life or half-life 2 is stellar? no. did i ever notice or care? hardly

 

[RumFore]

Is that minutes or hours?

 

[Prime crotch]

you can interpret that a number of ways, but what i got from it was that the environments themselves would be as much of a challenge as the enemies, and that combining the two would make for something really compelling. would i argue that the a.i. in half-life or half-life 2 is stellar? no. did i ever notice or care? hardly

Well to be honest Half-Life 1 probably had one of the best FPS AIs ever. Of course I'm talking solely about the marines, sometimes I wonder if they were some kind of bug that they can't redo it.

 

[FartOfWar]

Thank God. That was way too many posts without a swipe at Halo. I was thinking about bringing dual needlers into the discussion just to give you a jumpstart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miSADG9yihM

Nah, I'll try and stop. It's on ym mind now is all--just played through it over the weekend. And yeah there's lots I love about it.

 

[TemplaerDude]

3.05? that really sucks. i know it was short but i didn't know it was that short.

still, 5 games for one isn't that bad.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

HL2's enemies seem to have the most basic reactions to the battle happening around them, whereas in F.E.A.R they will hunt you down like a dog, relentlessly, using actual flanking and other tactics. But the gravity gun, crowbar and magnum and crossbow, and bug bait when you can use it, are great weapons. Certainly though the SMG and to a lesser extent the shotgun and pistol are boring weapons.

 

[FartOfWar]

I was actually thinking the Combine come off as mostly dumb compared to their USMC counterparts in HL1, though now that you mention it, Halo's Elites also provide a pretty telling counterpoint to the average HL2 enemies weaksauce AI.

When you play FEAR, which is full of nasty fucks fully intent and capable of killing you for even the slightest slip up, then switch to HL2, which is full of dumbasses who think that crouching down in the open or rushing you from across an open field is good battle tactics, I don't see how an unbiased gamer can claim HL2 is an exceptional FPS. It's shooting gameplay is average at best, and downright disappointing at worst.

I don't know why that is. Maybe because HL2 is more wide open than HL1, and it's harder to make smart enemies in a setting like that. Maybe it's because the Gravity Gun completely negates grenades, which were an integral part of HL1 Marine nastiness. Either way, as much as the game took a step forward in presentation and immersion, it took a step back in pure FPS gameplay.

I'm a huge fan of FEAR's combat, but like HL it's also empowering. It encourages aggression and risk-tasking, not stop and pop creep. In both games, enemies flank and flush. Hunters especially in Ep 2.

 

[Jenga]

So uh, wasn't the AI for HL2:Ep2 supposed to be updated?

 

[Big-E]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miSADG9yihM

:lol

 

[FartOfWar]

You know Draft, I guess different expectations are at work. In "realistic" settings (note the scare quotes) such as COD and Brothers in Arms I'm totally fine with stop-and-go exchanges (especially BIA's mandatory suppression and flanking tactics). But with sci-fi/fantasy I prefer empowerment, not leaning out to pick off one guy, hiding again as my shields recharge and knowing that I run no risk of being overrun or flushed out because the mechanic is designed to encourage turtling. This is why I love Halo 3's vehicle sections. They want you to rip off a Ghost, race that alongside a Wraith, hop off one and onto the other, stick a nade down the hatch, and bounce back to the Ghost. It's dynamic, super hero shit. I like getting the feeling I get from multiplayer games where you're on a wicked run, moving like mad (not enough people talk about sprint in HL2), evading fire with supernatural movement, and nailing headshots. In reality that shit doesn't fly. But then I'm talking about unreal games. But eh, call me biased or not a true FPS player. Water on a duck, man.

 

[Diablohead]

Portal + mods = win?

Thats what I hope for anyway.

 

[White Man]

Portal was pretty much announced to be short from the get go. Those peeps were just hired by Valve when it was announced, so it's not like they really had a whole ton of time to work on it. The small release gives me hope that we will get another episodic Portal game when Ep3 comes out.

I dunno, people rag on Valve for doing the episodic stuff, but I am really happy how Ep2 has come together. I kind of like the idea of getting a few shorter games for the price of one full game. Variety is good.

. . .but yes, I hope after episode 3, they do give us something "full sized" again.

 

[Draft]

I obviously cannot comment on Hunters in Ep. 2 since I've never fought them. My comments are based on experience in HL and Ep. 1.

edit: I don't understand what you're talking about, or maybe you don't understand me? I'm not commenting on the superiority of run and gun over games that emphasize cover, as I feel they're both perfectly valid ways to create tension and fun. I'm commenting on HL2's dumbfuck Combine, who are just completely ineffectual bad guys if you have even the flimsiest of FPS chops.

They are cannon fodder. They stand out in the open, they seek cover and then randomly run back out into your line of fire, they throw grenades like girls, and are almost universally boring to fight.

A FPS, boiled down to its base components, is a gun, and the things you shoot with that gun. If either one fails, then the game suffers considerably. It can be redeemed by excelling in other areas, but that's like eating a delicious 12 course meal with boiled Spam as the entree. The overall experience may kick ass, but you still feel wanting.

HL2 arguably has a weak set of weapons outside of the gravity gun, and inarguably takes a step back in terms of enemies. The Combine are frail, pathetic things compared to the fuck nasties that were sent to pacify Black Mesa, and that is not opinion.

 

[FartOfWar]

I obviously cannot comment on Hunters in Ep. 2 since I've never fought them. My comments are based on experience in HL and Ep. 1.

Right, but does the other stuff about sci-fi expectations and empowerment make sense? I do know this about HL2 AI, though. If you turtle/build forts with the grav gun, Combine are "smart" enough to stop rushing bottlenecks and start using grenades. They will attack from multiple directions at once if possible. In Halo (and you have to talk about Halo when you're having an FPS AI discussion, same as FEAR), Elites side step, fire, make noise, run behind cover, side step, etc. They will not split and flank/nade flush as in FEAR. This isn't an AI problem, its a design decision that favors the regenerating shield system. Ultimately, I'm saying I prefer Halo-style combat in "realistic" games.

 

[saelz8]

Portal is going to dawn a whole speedrun community. Hell, people still make custom maps for Narbacular Drop.

 

[FartOfWar]

Portal is going to dawn a whole speedrun community. Hell, people still make custom maps for Narbacular Drop.

Remember conc maps in TFC? Portal customs will be the new conc map. Hopefully they can rig up multiplayer portal runs by keeping each players entrances and exists from overlapping.

 

[Teknopathetic]

I get pretty excited thinking about the potential Portal mod scene.

 

[teepo]

i'm excited for what portal's going to do for gary's mod.

 

[Cryect]

I was actually thinking the Combine come off as mostly dumb compared to their USMC counterparts in HL1, though now that you mention it, Halo's Elites also provide a pretty telling counterpoint to the average HL2 enemies weaksauce AI.

When you play FEAR, which is full of nasty fucks fully intent and capable of killing you for even the slightest slip up, then switch to HL2, which is full of dumbasses who think that crouching down in the open or rushing you from across an open field is good battle tactics, I don't see how an unbiased gamer can claim HL2 is an exceptional FPS. It's shooting gameplay is average at best, and downright disappointing at worst.

I don't know why that is. Maybe because HL2 is more wide open than HL1, and it's harder to make smart enemies in a setting like that. Maybe it's because the Gravity Gun completely negates grenades, which were an integral part of HL1 Marine nastiness. Either way, as much as the game took a step forward in presentation and immersion, it took a step back in pure FPS gameplay.

I would say its more because in HL2: Episode 1 its very a single linear corridor based. Which in general means the AI is either in front of you or behind you without the option for the AI to even flank you or surprise you really. There needs to be multiple paths through places to allow the AI to take different routes to the player and thats what Episode 1 completely lacked. Preferably the AI would also try to use suppression fire etc to when they have AI units moving up on you as well instead of units blindly charging by themselves without regards to the other units. At the moment thats barely an option even but looks like they might have changed things for more open with Ep 2.

 

[GeneralIroh]

I was actually thinking the Combine come off as mostly dumb compared to their USMC counterparts in HL1, though now that you mention it, Halo's Elites also provide a pretty telling counterpoint to the average HL2 enemies weaksauce AI.

When you play FEAR, which is full of nasty fucks fully intent and capable of killing you for even the slightest slip up, then switch to HL2, which is full of dumbasses who think that crouching down in the open or rushing you from across an open field is good battle tactics, I don't see how an unbiased gamer can claim HL2 is an exceptional FPS. It's shooting gameplay is average at best, and downright disappointing at worst.

I don't know why that is. Maybe because HL2 is more wide open than HL1, and it's harder to make smart enemies in a setting like that. Maybe it's because the Gravity Gun completely negates grenades, which were an integral part of HL1 Marine nastiness. Either way, as much as the game took a step forward in presentation and immersion, it took a step back in pure FPS gameplay.

This man speaks the truth.

HL2 does everything right except for the combat and enemy AI. Its absolutely shit.
They need to improve the ballistics and get rid of the random cone based bullet spread. The bullets should leave the barrel of the gun. A combine shouldnt take 5 head shots from a pistol unless he has some kind of energy shield.

Even if they fix the AI the game woulds till feel broken. They need to add in a cover system and improve the enemy AI so that they can flank and take advantage of the environment instead of being a bullet sponge. The moment a combine gets hit, he should run for cover.

The game should have ironsights for more precise aiming. Valve also needs to model the limbs of gordon freeman so that we aren't controlling another protagonist thats just a box with a gun attached to the side.
Ubi-soft, bungie, sierra beat them to the punch.

 

[Jacobi]

The only stupid thing is, that credit cards are far less common in Europe than they are in the USA.
I have to buy the whole package again, which kind of sucks

You don't need a credit card for Steam. Just a normal bank account (if u haven't got one you are screwed anyway)+PayPal account.

I guess I'll just wait for lower prices on steam... It's not that great of a deal if you've played HL and Ep. 1 already IMO

 

[mandiller]

8 days to go! I'm pumped

In the meantime we have TF2 to play.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Quick question. Do the console versions of TF2 enable cross playing with PC players?

I imagine that isn't so.

 

[saelz8]

Quick question. Do the console versions of TF2 enable cross playing with PC players?

I imagine that isn't so.

Nope