That's fine, it can (or already has) its own thread. No need to derail other threads with something that deserves its own.
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HoloLens - Xbox One streaming AR
- Thread starter etta
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That's fine, it can (or already has) its own thread. No need to derail other threads with something that deserves its own.
I'm not a developer, I'm just basing it on approximations that have been made by reliable people who've used Hololens. By reaching your arms out and touching your thumbs together, the pinky knuckles represent the sides of the AR window.
Anton Sugar
Member
Watching the video again, it's clear that he unpauses the game and the audio comes through fine and synced, but the game itself doesn't "unpause" immediately. The audio and video are synced otherwise--you can tell by how the character shakes when hit at the same time as the impact noises.
Fess
Member
I'm not so sure about that, I'm using a Steam Link connection over 5ghz wifi at my place plus a standard HDMI chain, as in SteamLink-HDMI-receiver-HDMI-TV and the latency is low enough for me to play Ikaruga, I'm sure there is latency but I simply don't notice it.
Oh, it is, sure as hell. Do you honestly believe for just one second that this is NOT a concerted viral marketing campagin? Do you really think it's just the devs posting their stuff just as they feel? Sure.
Dreamwriter
Member
Yes, I think Microsoft approved of them doing these things, but it's not a PR campaign or anything. Remember, this isn't going to be marketed towards consumers in 2016, so why would Microsoft's PR guys show someone playing Halo?
Head.spawn
Junior Member
To anyone who's tried Hololens: Doesn't the image get washed out just like with a projector?
Nothing of what I saw was washed out at all, the problem with that projection shot is that light is interfering with it as it travels and the light that is actually hitting the wall; which wouldn't be the case with Hololens because anything you're seeing is an inch away from your eye. I haven't seen solid images displayed on it, only that robot bug game thing.
Disclaimer: I am basing this post on the assumption that Hololens can't render blacks (as is the case with traditional projectors) and can only render light.
Say I place an augmented-reality poster of zebra stripes in my living room. Which of these, if any, is the most accurate representation of how Hololens handles blacks?
Figures 1 and 2 are not possible, to my understanding, with any Hololens model that relies on light projection.
Figure 3 would be ideal for pitch black rooms or flat black walls, but it would look weird otherwise.
Figure 4, I think, is how I think Hololens will actually handle blacks. It translates black to something that is nowhere near black, but it's at least implied. However, it would look inferior to #3 in a dark room, due to the elevated black levels.
Liabe Brave
Member
Given the design of the light guides, I would strongly believe that picture 3 is what the display actually shows. However, the headset has a darkened visor that sits behind the display pane (from the wearer's perspective). This will make the entire room look darker, thus making the image appear more like picture 2. It's basically a simple way to nudge every environment toward the pitch black room you pointed out would be ideal.Say I place an augmented-reality poster of zebra stripes in my living room. Which of these, if any, is the most accurate representation of how Hololens handles blacks?
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Disclaimer: I am basing this post on the assumption that Hololens can't render blacks (as is the case with traditional projectors) and can only render light.
Say I place an augmented-reality poster of zebra stripes in my living room. Which of these, if any, is the most accurate representation of how Hololens handles blacks?
Figures 1 and 2 are not possible, to my understanding, with any Hololens model that relies on light projection.
Figure 3 would be ideal for pitch black rooms or flat black walls, but it would look weird otherwise.
Figure 4, I think, is how I think Hololens will actually handle blacks. It translates black to something that is nowhere near black, but it's at least implied. However, it would look inferior to #3 in a dark room, due to the elevated black levels.
Hard to recall precisely from memory, but definitely NOT the first picture. I'm thinking something closer to the 2nd one, but then again there weren't many blacks in what I was seeing. Lots of metal characters, lazer beams, explosions, debris and such. There were cracks and stuff on the walls that were rendered dark, but I don't remember them being super black, but it was certainly enough to give a convincing impression of depth onto a flat surface, so that would rule out picture 3 and 4 I guess.
So, somewhere close to picture two, but without anything being pure solid from what I remember. The completely solid colors they show on the floor demo that was posted online were not how it looked like completely, everything was definitely a bit more transparent.
Now that's not to say it isn't possible, but this was simply the demo that I played.
Alx
Member
I think MS may have focused on the "hologram" terminology not only because it sounds cool, but because the common perception of an hologram in popular culture is a translucent object floating in mid-air.
It's certainly a technical limitation that may not be possible to overcome for a while, but many people are ready to accept it since it's how it worked in science fiction anyway.
It's certainly a technical limitation that may not be possible to overcome for a while, but many people are ready to accept it since it's how it worked in science fiction anyway.
Ok, very helpful and informative posts.
I played around in Photoshop with the room background layer, darkening it to simulate the tinting of the lenses. But it didn't make the zebra stripes any darker (edit: the global darkening effect counteracted any progress made because the black stripes were still the same shade as the rest of the room). I thought maybe if the entire Hololens area was slightly illuminated corner to corner, except for black detail, maybe then it would look like figure 2. But it still just looks like I'm seeing right through to the background (edit: it just makes the blacks look more transparent, not darker. The only way I could get good blacks is by changing to a solid, dark background.)
Again, this is just me dicking around in Photoshop. If I could demo Hololens I would probably have a better idea.
I played around in Photoshop with the room background layer, darkening it to simulate the tinting of the lenses. But it didn't make the zebra stripes any darker (edit: the global darkening effect counteracted any progress made because the black stripes were still the same shade as the rest of the room). I thought maybe if the entire Hololens area was slightly illuminated corner to corner, except for black detail, maybe then it would look like figure 2. But it still just looks like I'm seeing right through to the background (edit: it just makes the blacks look more transparent, not darker. The only way I could get good blacks is by changing to a solid, dark background.)
Again, this is just me dicking around in Photoshop. If I could demo Hololens I would probably have a better idea.
It would be relatively easy to show black pixels on a visor if there were an LCD layer. The type you get on your pocket calculator.
Light does not interfere as it travels. The distance from you and the source has little effect for interference. Its the inverse square law for intensity. It is not a matter of light interfering with greater distances. If the room were bright you would still get slightly washed out images. It depends on the intensity of the sources.
It is 100.000% and sure as hell a a planned and orchestrated marketing campaign. I'm super sorry, but it is beyond naive to believe that a corpoiration like MS would let "developers" post such content without acknolwedging and planning it.
Just the stuff they are showing, how they are showing, the hashtag and such - there is a marketing team behind that executing it. Doesn't mean that these guys are no real engineers, it is still a campagin.
They are preparing the market by small scale viral marketing campaign, hyping up the topic, testing the feedback and the reactions. And if people fall for the idea that these is "authentic" insights and not pr or marketing content. Seems to work.
Alx
Member
By the way I don't think it has been mentioned in this topic yet, but MS has opened a site for people to suggest different hololens apps, and the "winner" will be done by an MS team.
https://microsoftstudios.com/hololens/shareyouridea
Lots of crazy unrealistic stuff in there of course, but probably a few good ideas hidden here and there.
https://microsoftstudios.com/hololens/shareyouridea
Lots of crazy unrealistic stuff in there of course, but probably a few good ideas hidden here and there.
Liabe Brave
Member
Your example is a worst-case scenario for AR: an image with lots of pure black, against a very bright and detailed background. There's only so good it will get. But there's something that would help the experience.
Your test image is equally emissive across its whole area because you're viewing the whole thing on a display device. In Hololens, the extra contrast of the focused display will give the impression that the adjacent "blacks" are darker than they are. This happens with regular screens. If you look at your TV or monitor when turned off, you'll notice it's dark grey instead of black. Of course, it can't get any darker when turned on. But watching content on it gives you the impression of inky blacks due to contrast.
And/or they could be locally dimming the display only. One way could be an LCD layer, as suggested above. Or the visor could be polarized, and the display polarized along a different axis.
Yeah, I chose the zebra pattern with solid black because it was the easiest thing for me to photoshop the dark areas out of.
It's true that bright elements can bring black levels down, but a tinted see-through glass visor is a lot harder to compensate for than a solid black TV panel.
Dimming the whole active AR display area would improve blacks, but it would also mute the effect of AR itself, because now there's a dark window in front of the real physical environment too.
Companies have prototypes of transparent LCD screens that can draw individual black pixels on a clear surface, but I believe it's physically impossible to keep both the AR display and the real world in focus with that kind of display when it's only like an inch from your eye while the real world is several feet away.
Dreamwriter
Member
That was for the launch of the first device, which isn't going to be targeted (or priced) for consumers. It's very possible the FoV will change by the time the consumer version comes out.
That quote is talking about the current headsets compared to the ones at release and I think that poster was talking about V2 and on.