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[C4Lukins]

I sort of agree, fuck Russia.

And I say this as someone who worked with a ton of Russians working in the US and they were great people.

But despite the fact that they moved to the US for job oppurtunities, they all loved Putin and wished for the days of the Soviet Union. These are people who were between the ages of 3 and 7 mind you when the Soviet Union dissolved. They still had memories of stories about Sputnik.

But on a happier note, I also worked with a lot of people who came from countries that separated from Russia during the fall of the USSR, and they were mostly pro independence from Russia and pro the United States.

 

[Pancake Mix]

I have no respect for either Russia or China, just like they have no respect for our intelligence, our way of life, our democracies, or their own people.

How Russia treated Ukraine after the latter's last nukes were removed is typical of Russia. They've been doing this shit for centuries and have several other conflict zones.

I hope the Ukrainians can finally kick the Russians out of the East and move closer to the EU and Nato. Too late for Crimea I'm afraid.

 

[Mung]

Geopolitics has changed pretty significantly since the 19th century. Saying otherwise is just completely ignorant and shows a complete lack of understanding of history.

And we aren't moving towards a bi-polar world. Russia certainly isn't going to be that power. If you are referring to China, they are still well behind the United States in both hard and soft power and have a lot more stumbling blocks to get passed before they even have a chance of rivaling the United States' power and influence.

I was referring to China or potentially Russia, and with that, a lot can change in a few decades.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm impressed it seems this thread contains the entire reader base of The Intercept...

 

[Piecake]

China should become a true global power in the next few decades. It has more or less everything it needs to accomplish that.
Will they usurp the US any time soon? Probably not. But they will still work as a counterweight for the US.

China does not have everything it needs to accomplish that. In fact, there are still a number of question marks. Can they do it? Sure, but it is not a forgone conclusion. In fact, the obstacles are rather difficult. I don't see them challenging the US anytime soon

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1273561&highlight=

This thread goes over the question marks and strengths of China in more detail (don't want to derail this thread)

 

[Toxi]

Oil determines the strength of Russia's economy.

Russia's economy sucked in the 90s because oil prices sucked. Russia's economy was good in the 2000s because oil prices were booming. Russia was corrupt and run by oligarchs in the 90s just like it is corrupt and run by oligarchs today.

Sure, that's the actual cause of growth, but I can certainly see why people would associate it with Putin taking power.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

China does not have everything it needs to accomplish that. In fact, there are still a number of question marks. Can they do it? Sure, but it is not a forgone conclusion, and I don't see them challenging the US anytime soon

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1273561&highlight=

This thread goes over the question marks and strengths of China in more detail (don't want to derail this thread)

I said should,not will.
When it comes to geopolitics nobody can be sure. Few could predict the Soviets would collapse until it was actually happening.
Eventually somebody has to challenge the US and China is the best candidate at the moment.

 

[Palette Swap]

As a European, yeah, fuck Putin and his backing of all our disgusting assholes.

 

[Piecake]

I'm impressed it seems this thread contains the entire reader base of The Intercept...

I've always been impressed that you can get these people to defend Russia's imperialistic actions and horrible human rights abuses just by creating a topic on it. Its like they can't help themselves, but to try to put the focus on America and all the shit it does.

You don't hear the moral condemnation and outrage for Russia's military actions and human rights abuses. Its always, well, America does it too, and isn't that so god damn awful? Hell, sometimes Russia is excused for their actions by putting all the blame on America and the West. They were provoked or this is just how the game is played.

Its all rather pathetic because they end up defending the shit that they supposedly hate and just twist themselves up in a moralistic sense so severely that it is just ridiculous.

 

[BocoDragon]

I don't like how Russia tends to value brainless strongmen as leaders.

Trump suggested that Putin/Russia doesn't respect Obama or Hillary. First of all, fuck you Trump for making Russia's backward opinion the barometer for what a leader should be in a liberal democracy. Second, he's probably right. Russian leaders probably don't understand or respect liberal intellectuals, and they'd prefer a grunting un-empathetic asshole like Trump. That whole Spartan ideal of power can die in a fire.

 

[duckroll]

The OP reads like this to me: "Fuck this country with terrible human rights. I didn't really care that much when they were just fucking up their own people and shitting on their region, but now that they are trying to interfere with my country's politics again and might have an impact on my life, FUCK EM!"

 

[hobblygobbly]

I recommend people listen to this 30 minute podcast by Reuters (they talk to a NPR reporter that spent a lot of time in Russia). The simple reasons Russians love Putin

It gives an idea of the economy emerging from 90s and the fuckery of Yeltsin, Russians lacking an identity coming out from the dissolution of the USSR, the reformation of the KGB to now the FSB, the illusion of democracy, the control the state has over the media, etc.

Personally I dislike Putin, but there are a lot of politicians and people working hard to change Russia to be more democratic like the rest of Europe but it's a tough battle. An just recently on parliamentary elections: BBC: Natalia Gryaznevich's struggle to be heard in Russian election (includes video on top of the page)

I personally know a lot of Russians, friends and colleagues and grew up around German-Russian (including Polish and Ukrainian) communities (Berlin) as well as some former family relations so I don't have anything against Russians. I find some of us in the west fail to understand that also Russia came out of a bad place in the 90s, it's only been around 25 years since dissolution of the USSR and then riddled with political opportunism and corruption, there are also people in more rural/country parts of Russia that fundamentally don't even know what democracy is, it's just a foreign concept to them, they don't know what democracy entails. A lot of people are also fairly disenfranchised with politics in their country and don't talk about it, while the rest are supporters of Putin, and then opposition trying to fight between it all - doesn't help when opposition gets "too big and noticed' and then murdered. The last recent parliamentary election had a record low turn out. To gauge how much people support Putin is tricky because of the control on the media and corruption, but the mass anti-Putin protests in 2011/2012 showed that there is strong opposition, there were 100k+ protesters in Moscow, the government even had the military out because they were afraid of a revolution.

If anyone wants the best news from Russia, use the English version of Meduza, it's run by Russians that reside outside of Russia and away from the Kremlin's hands (including a jab at Russia Today, "The real Russia, today"). There is also the Russian version of the site which is more active.

 

[Psychoward]

I'm impressed it seems this thread contains the entire reader base of The Intercept...

gonna have to expand on that for me

i assume it's similar to RT where it's basically a Putin mouthpiece?

 

[Forearms]

The OP reads like this to me: "Fuck this country with terrible human rights. I didn't really care that much when they were just fucking up their own people and shitting on their region, but now that they are trying to interfere with my country's politics again and might have an impact on my life, FUCK EM!"

To be fair, the OP later clarified he is from Australia and hates his own government as well.

EDIT: Here is the post from the OP that I'm referring to:

I was referring to the government not Russian people I fucked up the thread title so I deserve the backlash.

I'm not American. I'm Australian so please you're welcome to make a fuck Australia thread (government) because I'd 100% agree with you.

I want to see what both sides of the story is on this matter. I guess the biggest thing I find annoying is we keep seeing history repeating again and again with it comes to the "super powers" and it's just disheartening because you'd think after all the wars and millions & millions of people lost these governments would learn.

The replies from some posters so far have been really appreciated.

 

[excelsiorlef]

gonna have to expand on that for me

i assume it's similar to RT where it's basically a Putin mouthpiece?

It's Glen Greenwald's "news" site and like this thread he and his staff engage in a lot of Russia apologism because The Intercept is anti-West but doesn't want to admit it.


Behold the intellectual capacity of Mr Greenwald.

 

[GeoNeo]

The OP reads like this to me: "Fuck this country with terrible human rights. I didn't really care that much when they were just fucking up their own people and shitting on their region, but now that they are trying to interfere with my country's politics again and might have an impact on my life, FUCK EM!"

My original post was fucked I'll admit that I should have fleshed it out more before hitting submit since clearly people have undoubtably taken it to mean different things (which in itself is fair enough) I'm not gonna edit the OP with my later posts clarifying things since the OP sparked great discourse and I really do appreciate both view points. If it makes me look like a idiot so be it.

I recommend people listen to this 30 minute podcast by Reuters (they talk to a NPR reporter that spent a lot of time in Russia). The simple reasons Russians love Putin

It gives an idea of the economy emerging from 90s and the fuckery of Yeltsin, Russians lacking an identity coming out from the dissolution of the USSR, the reformation of the KGB to now the FSB, the illusion of democracy, the control the state has over the media, etc.

Personally I dislike Putin, but there are a lot of politicians and people working hard to change Russia to be more democratic like the rest of Europe but it's a tough battle. An just recently on parliamentary elections: BBC: Natalia Gryaznevich's struggle to be heard in Russian election (includes video on top of the page)

I personally know a lot of Russians, friends and colleagues and grew up around German-Russian (including Polish and Ukrainian) communities (Berlin) as well as some former family relations so I don't have anything against Russians. I find some of us in the west fail to understand that also Russia came out of a bad place in the 90s, it's only been around 25 years since dissolution of the USSR and then riddled with political opportunism and corruption, there are also people in more rural/country parts of Russia that fundamentally don't even know what democracy is, it's just a foreign concept to them, they don't know what democracy entails. A lot of people are also fairly disenfranchised with politics in their country and don't talk about it, while the rest are supporters of Putin, and then opposition trying to fight between it all - doesn't help when opposition gets "too big and noticed' and then murdered. The last recent parliamentary election had a record low turn out. To gauge how much people support Putin is tricky because of the control on the media and corruption, but the mass anti-Putin protests in 2011/2012 showed that there is strong opposition, there were 100k+ protesters in Moscow, the government even had the military out because they were afraid of a revolution.

If anyone wants the best news from Russia, use the English version of Meduza, it's run by Russians that reside outside of Russia and away from the Kremlin's hands (including a jab at Russia Today, "The real Russia, today"). There is also the Russian version of the site which is more active.

Thanks for this will check it out.

Also, Meduza seems really good.

 

[TAJ]

Exactly. I don't think Nato's point of view is valid.

Donald, is that you?

 

[duckroll]

My original post was fucked I'll admit that I should have fleshed it out more before hitting submit since clearly people have undoubtably taken it to mean different things (which in itself is fair enough) I'm not gonna edit the OP with my later posts clarifying things since the OP sparked great discourse and I really do appreciate both view points. If it makes me look like a idiot so be it.

I don't think it makes you look like an idiot, I just think that Russia's influence being a terrible blight on modern human society at large is something that most people won't really dispute! It's not worse now because of Wikileaks or whatever. "Fuck Russia" in recent memory was overdue when they annexed Crimea, and when their weapons shot down an airliner I would say that's when action was due. But I guess it's easier for the world to do nothing. So it's not just fuck Russia, it's really fuck everyone for being spineless. Lol.

 

[sephi22]

They ruin Dota so I'm with you OP

 

[Meadows]

Controversially, I think that the US is one of the greatest forces for "good" (if there is such a thing) in the history of world empires.

They (generally) care about human rights, they advance science well, they have never as the world's singular superpower been involved in a large-scale war and while they have been on top rates of death by conflict have plummeted and global well-being has risen.

The US is a great, great country and history will remember it fondly. Sure it fucked up democracy in Central America for a decade or so, fucked in Vietnam etc, but those are minute issues compared to, for example the Great Leap Forward, some of the UK's colonial exploits, Stalin's purges etc.

Don't believe the propaganda, America is a force for good, despite its warts.

 

[AppleSeason]

it's been like that for me since they went full lgbtphobic and dangerous. there go my dreams of riding the transiberian.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Russia is an amazing country with an incredible history and amazing people. Putin is a tool though and has dragged it to his level. Putin, not Russia, OP.

Yeah I've met some amazing Russian people via games and that is more or less their view as well.

Putin forever President tho. Forever ever.

 

[Zaru]

I'm not particularly fond of Russia's political activities, but I find it kind of amusing that Russia is suddenly again the scapegoat for everything and a new "red scare light" is affecting the USA and partly Europe.
It's so fucking convenient isn't it.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

I'm not particularly fond of Russia's political activities, but I find it kind of amusing that Russia is suddenly again the scapegoat for everything and a new "red scare light" is affecting the USA and partly Europe.
It's so fucking convenient isn't it.

I mean sure if we ignore everything that's happened in the last 5 years

 

[alleyezonme]

Controversially, I think that the US is one of the greatest forces for "good" (if there is such a thing) in the history of world empires.

They (generally) care about human rights, they advance science well, they have never as the world's singular superpower been involved in a large-scale war and while they have been on top rates of death by conflict have plummeted and global well-being has risen.

The US is a great, great country and history will remember it fondly. Sure it fucked up democracy in Central America for a decade or so, fucked in Vietnam etc, but those are minute issues compared to, for example the Great Leap Forward, some of the UK's colonial exploits, Stalin's purges etc.

Don't believe the propaganda, America is a force for good, despite its warts.

To be clear I am not comparing Russia to the U.S. . I just think the U.S is losing its global influence and power nothing last forever . Russia and China see this and going at them, even in some african countries people dont want to deal with the western world anymore now that their are more than 1 super power

As an african american i feel the exact opposite of your post but respect your opinion.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm not particularly fond of Russia's political activities, but I find it kind of amusing that Russia is suddenly again the scapegoat for everything and a new "red scare light" is affecting the USA and partly Europe.
It's so fucking convenient isn't it.

Convenient for what exactly? It's not like these are conspiracy theory level things, there is actual proof that Russia is involved with all this stuff through invasions in countries, funding of extremist parties, actually hacking political parties of other countries, etc.

They are not a scapegoat if they are actually contributing to the problems.

To be clear I am not comparing Russia to the U.S. . I just think the U.S is losing its global influence and power nothing last forever . Russia and China see this and going at them, even in Some african countries people dont want to deal with the western world anymore now that their are more than 1 super power

As an african american i feel the exact opposite of your post but respect your opinion.

There is still only one superpower. Russia and China are regional players. China is more involved in Africa because it needs resources and such, but their playground is mostly restricted to their neighboring countries. Russia can't even fund a small military invasion without going broke at the moment.

 

[alleyezonme]

Convenient for what exactly? It's not like these are conspiracy theory level things, there is actual proof that Russia is involved with all this stuff through invasions in countries, funding of extremist parties, actually hacking political parties of other countries, etc.

They are not a scapegoat if they are actually contributing to the problems.


There is still only one superpower. Russia and China are regional players. China is more involved in Africa because it needs resources and such, but their playground is mostly restricted to their neighboring countries. Russia can't even fund a small military invasion without going broke at the moment.

A lot of people dont feel that there is only 1 super power in the world anymore. They recognize Russia as a threat to the U.S. and to a lot of countries in this world that is a good thing to them.

Its about what people believe and think take the mind and you got them . People around the world dont see the U.S. as this powerful giant anymore . When the west talks down to other nations it will only sour more relationships. This isnt the old days and now there is more than 1 big player in the room.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I mean they literally occupied another country just recently it's not like that's any new

 

[Moosichu]

A lot of people dont feel that there is only 1 super power in the world anymore. They recognize Russia as a threat to the U.S. and to a lot of countries in this world that is a good thing to them.

Its about what people believe and think take the mind and you got them . People around the world dont see the U.S. as this powerful giant anymore . When the west talks down to other nations it will only sour more relationships. This isnt the old days and now there is more than 1 big player in the room.

?? The old days were when the US and Russia were both superpowers. Russia has lost a lot of that.

 

[ClosingADoor]

A lot of people dont feel that their is only 1 super power in the world anymore. They recognize Russia as a threat to the U.S. and to a lot of countries in this world that is a good thing to them.

Its about what people believe and think take the mind and you got them . People around the world dont see thr U.S. as this powerful giant anymore .

A lot of people overestimate the influence those countries have compared to both the military and soft power of the US I think. They see Russia as a threat because there is a lot of talk from Putin and his buddies. But realistically, they can simply not fund a position as a superpower with worldwide influence and military capabilities in their current form anymore. There is a reason even close countries like Ukraine would rather do business with the EU then Russia, their economy is simply not large enough anymore.

China is better off in that way, but does not have the military capabilities (and maybe not even interest) yet to have worldwide influence outside of economics.

That is not even getting into all the organizations, alliances and diplomatic power the US has built up over the decades where Russia needs to rebuilt and China is just getting started (for example with their investments in Africa).

They are not to be taken lightly, but I wouldn't call them a superpower myself, even if people think US power is getting smaller.

 

[thelastcrusader]

There are two point of views to every conflict. Nato have pushed Russia into a corner.

The anti Russian rhetoric in the mainstream western media of course means that there is fervent russophobia at the moment, leading to thread titles such as 'fuck Russia'.

Doesn't the USA fuck with its minority citizens? Doesn't the USA fuck with other countries?

Sure, Russia is quite awful with regards to basic human decency, rights, etc. but the USA is kind of guilty in the same regards.

Pretty much. They're not perfect by any means but we are no saints. We think we can boss around the rest of the world. We think we're invincible. Russia is making a point.

Edit: and we are totes letting Isis flourish. Should have left Assad alone. We had no business with those rebels.

 

[Lord Thrappleper The 49th]

Controversially, I think that the US is one of the greatest forces for "good" (if there is such a thing) in the history of world empires.

They (generally) care about human rights, they advance science well, they have never as the world's singular superpower been involved in a large-scale war and while they have been on top rates of death by conflict have plummeted and global well-being has risen.

The US is a great, great country and history will remember it fondly. Sure it fucked up democracy in Central America for a decade or so, fucked in Vietnam etc, but those are minute issues compared to, for example the Great Leap Forward, some of the UK's colonial exploits, Stalin's purges etc.

Don't believe the propaganda, America is a force for good, despite its warts.

Propaganda from which side? As the end result only makes me dislike america.

 

[Frosty Droid]

Controversially, I think that the US is one of the greatest forces for "good" (if there is such a thing) in the history of world empires.

They (generally) care about human rights, they advance science well, they have never as the world's singular superpower been involved in a large-scale war and while they have been on top rates of death by conflict have plummeted and global well-being has risen.

The US is a great, great country and history will remember it fondly. Sure it fucked up democracy in Central America for a decade or so, fucked in Vietnam etc, but those are minute issues compared to, for example the Great Leap Forward, some of the UK's colonial exploits, Stalin's purges etc.

Don't believe the propaganda, America is a force for good, despite its warts.

As an American, I have to disagree.

We've knocked a shitload democratically elected governments out of power when those governments have tried to escape our influence or align themselves with a political foe. We have enacted sanctions that have deprived millions of food and basic medicine when their autocratic regimes acted against our interests. Even our good friends to the north have had to endure our meddling (Prime Minister Diefenbaker).

We've never been involved in a large scale war as the world's only superpower because that's what happens in a unipolar world, there's no one strong enough to challenge you. As we enter a multipolar world it'll be interesting to see if we can escape the The Thucydides Trap with China.

We advance science for our economic gain and for strategic reasons, not out of benevolence to humanity. The Soviet Union scared the shit out of us with Sputnik and NASA was formed as a response. President Kennedy would have never pushed for a man on the moon if the Soviets weren't in danger of getting there before us.

America is a force for America, even though we like to pretend otherwise. When you consider the arc of human development, I don't think America is any better or any worse than most of the empires that came before us.

 

[Eila]

I can relate to wanting a piece of the sweet global domination cake US and close allies have enjoyed but ultimately what Putin has been doing is collapse the Russian economy and hurt the quality of living of all it's citizens.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Pretty much. They're not perfect by any means but we are no saints. We think we can boss around the rest of the world. We think we're invincible. Russia is making a point.

Edit: and we are totes letting Isis flourish. Should have left Assad alone. We had no business with those rebels.

The world was screaming for the West to get involved and support the Arab Spring. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Should have let Assad kill those protesters right?

As an American, I have to disagree.

We've knocked a shitload democratically elected governments out of power when those governments have tried to escape our influence or align themselves with a political foe. We have enacted sanctions that have deprived millions of food and basic medicine when their autocratic regimes acted against our interests. Even our good friends to the north have had to endure our meddling (Prime Minister Diefenbaker).

We've never been involved in a large scale war as the world's only superpower because that's what happens in a unipolar world, there's no one strong enough to challenge you. As we enter a multipolar world it'll be interesting to see if we can escape the The Thucydides Trap with China.

We advance science for our economic gain and for strategic reasons, not out of benevolence to humanity. The Soviet Union scared the shit out of us with Sputnik and NASA was formed as a response. President Kennedy would have never pushed for a man on the moon if the Soviets weren't in danger of getting there before us.

America is a force for America, even though we like to pretend otherwise. When you consider the arc of human development, I don't think America is any better or any worse than most of the empires that came before us.

It's not that America is the greatest. It is just the least worse option to have. I think we have been pretty lucky overall with how America has managed its position compared to how it could have gone, or the alternatives available (Russia at the time). Of course this largely depends on where you are living. People in the Middle-east would have a very different opinion here compared to Europe for example.

 

[Beefy]

Russia is an amazing country with an incredible history and amazing people. Putin is a tool though and has dragged it to his level. Putin, not Russia, OP.

Not watched any of the BBC stuff on Russia?

Like the programme that showed a group that did it's own version of Catch a Predator? But changed it to, To Catch a Queer. They used social sites to con gay and bi people (that were hiding that they were gay/bi) to meet up with a guy they thought were gay. The group would film every thing as they met the gay guy. Soon as the gay guy turned up they abducted him, taking them baxk to their place were they would tie him to the chair and beat and abuse him. At the same time filming every thing. They would then tortue him until he confessed he was gay on camera. Once he had admitted he was gay they would bribe him saying the footage would be put up on their website and his family would disown him. So after a few more beatings they let him go. He went and got the money and paid and they let him go. Then uploaded the footage anyway.(they also showed another group that hunted down Jews).

Or the crazy Russian hooligans that went to the Euros (football/Russia) to attack any one they could. One England fan got beat up with weapons. When he fell to the floor in his own blood they decide to cut his achilles so he couldn't move. So when the second wave of Russian thugs came in he just laid there getting kicked in the head.

Another Channel 4 progamme (UK TV channel) showed Russian far right / ex miltary had set up loads of gangs across Russia. A reporter passed as one and managed to get into one of their training camps. These camps were used to train in hand to hand combat, in shooting a gun and using a knife and also how to protect yourself. These nutters would use their "skill" to hunt down and kill jews, blacks and people from Kazakstan. It showed you how one black guy got stabbed and killed on a train as people looked on.

Then you have the shit that Putin and the army do. Like Ukraine etc.

The bigger problem with Russia is out of these three programmes and the many more I have seen. None of the people got arrested, even after evidence had been given over. Yes there are nice Russians, but yes Russia is a shit hole.

 

[Frosty Droid]

The world was screaming for the West to get involved and support the Arab Spring. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Should have let Assad kill those protesters right?


It's not that America is the greatest. It is just the least worse option to have. I think we have been pretty lucky overall with how America has managed its position compared to how it could have gone, or the alternatives available (Russia at the time). Of course this largely depends on where you are living. People in the Middle-east would have a very different opinion here compared to Europe for example.

That's fair. I should have emphasized that America isn't a negative influence on a global scale, we've just got a mixed track record in pursuing our self-interest in the world like most of the nation-states that became great powers in the past.

 

[AlphaDump]

I don't think it makes you look like an idiot, I just think that Russia's influence being a terrible blight on modern human society at large is something that most people won't really dispute! It's not worse now because of Wikileaks or whatever. "Fuck Russia" in recent memory was overdue when they annexed Crimea, and when their weapons shot down an airliner I would say that's when action was due. But I guess it's easier for the world to do nothing. So it's not just fuck Russia, it's really fuck everyone for being spineless. Lol.

I agree with this. We need to be aware of it. This shit is even on neogaf.

 

[Meadows]

To be clear I am not comparing Russia to the U.S. . I just think the U.S is losing its global influence and power nothing last forever . Russia and China see this and going at them, even in some african countries people dont want to deal with the western world anymore now that their are more than 1 super power

As an african american i feel the exact opposite of your post but respect your opinion.

I understand your lived experience as an African American might give you an experience that I wouldn't understand, so I also respect your perspective.

 

[Kolx]

Your kind of right. Just look at Syria, instead of doing the pragmatic thing and pacifying and supporting Assad- The US seem intent on waging its proxy war and letting ISIS flourish. If the US truly cared about civilian lives, they would realize the lesser of two evils

First of all, the US did way more to stop ISIS than Russia or their puppet Alassad did, and secondly, if we're taking the lesser of two evil approach then I'm sure the dictator who killed hundreds of thousands of his people and is willing to continue doing this is NOT the lesser of the two evil.

 

[DedValve]

Doesn't the USA fuck with its minority citizens? Doesn't the USA fuck with other countries?

Sure, Russia is quite awful with regards to basic human decency, rights, etc. but the USA is kind of guilty in the same regards.

Are you a minority? Have you liked...even done a google search over "insert minority" rights in the USA vs Russia?

It only takes 0.002 seconds according to Google.

Do you have common sense? Do you have 0.0002 seconds to spare (+ typing time)?

 

[entremet]

Are you a minority? Have you liked...even done a google search over "insert minority" rights in the USA vs Russia?

It only takes 0.002 seconds according to Google.

Do you have common sense? Do you have 0.0002 seconds to spare (+ typing time)?

That poster doesn't understand the concept of nuance. So don't worry and move on lol.

 

[kirblar]

That poster doesn't understand the concept of nuance. So don't worry and move on lol.

It's just standard issue whataboutism

 

[entremet]

It's just standard issue whataboutism

I agree, but being a minority and reading what how Russia treats it's minorities compared to the US, it's not at same level as to be remotely comparable.

The US has it's issues to be fair.

 

[TheExecutive]

Give me a break. Are you just now coming around to this idea because your favorite presidential candidate is being picked on by them? Of course fuck Russia and shame on you for taking so long to come to that realization.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I can relate to wanting a piece of the sweet global domination cake US and close allies have enjoyed but ultimately what Putin has been doing is collapse the Russian economy and hurt the quality of living of all it's citizens.

Perhaps he should deploy ships in international water everywhere to show just how much control he got. Greatest economy.

 

[SomTervo]

Russia is an amazing country with an incredible history and amazing people. Putin is a tool though and has dragged it to his level. Putin, not Russia, OP.

Well said.

The problem is that Putin/demagogues' bullshit trickles down. He's tainting the whole political landscape.

Controversially, I think that the US is one of the greatest forces for "good" (if there is such a thing) in the history of world empires.

They (generally) care about human rights, they advance science well, they have never as the world's singular superpower been involved in a large-scale war and while they have been on top rates of death by conflict have plummeted and global well-being has risen.

The US is a great, great country and history will remember it fondly. Sure it fucked up democracy in Central America for a decade or so, fucked in Vietnam etc, but those are minute issues compared to, for example the Great Leap Forward, some of the UK's colonial exploits, Stalin's purges etc.

Don't believe the propaganda, America is a force for good, despite its warts.

The USA has popularised loads of great cultures and been probably the most powerful driving force in human history - but you cannot ignore the amount of problematic cultures and events it has also caused or at least had a hand in. Things aren't as simple as this. Proper laissez-faire capitalism has become a nightmare, a giant tumour on human civilisation, and the USA is the one that grabbed the cancer and ran with it (to mix my metaphors).

 

[Fancy Clown]

Give me a break. Are you just now coming around to this idea because your favorite presidential candidate is being picked on by them? Of course fuck Russia and shame on you for taking so long to come to that realization.

OP is Australian

 

[WinFonda]

Yep, fuck Russia. They have serious kool-aid drinking problems over there.

And by "Russia" I mostly mean their corrupt-ass, broken-ass system of governance that continually enables assholes to rise to power. One day Russia might break this cycle of ultra nationalism and be a great country, but it's going to take a lot of work from the people, and it's probably not going to be pretty.

 

[TestOfTide]

Usually when someone is referring to a country, they are referring to their government. However, I would say "Fuck you" to the majority of Russians too, considering Putin's approval rating.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...isnt-the-one-donald-trump-seems-to-be-taking/

Well what do you expect those polls to say when Putin will assassinate any dissidents.

As for the OP, let's all give a hardy "fuck you" to the following:

- Putin and his regime that is trying to play games with other countries' elections.

- Julian Assange and Wikileaks for always being Putin suck-ups and trying to influence a foreign election.

- The Far Right all across the world, for bringing out the worst in so many people and dividing nations in order to make it easier for Russia to influence deplorables across the world.

- The Far FAR Left, such as Jill Stein and Jeremy Corbyn, for being such purity-based dumbasses that you allowed, either explicitly or implicitly, the rise of the far right and Putin.

- Everyone that didn't/doesn't vote to try and stop the rise of the far right when they could/could've, because that makes you a bystander to the rise of the worst Bullies in the world.