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Honestly fuck Russia?
- Thread starter GeoNeo
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RoadHazard
Gold Member
That's why they keep doing illegal mock attack runs with fighter jets over the territory of countries around the Baltic Sea? Seems reasonable.
Russia is being very aggressive these days, and us over here in Europe (I'm in Sweden) don't find it very amusing.
daTRUballin
Member
Wait. How does that make your average Russian a brainwashed propaganda tool if what you just posted is all true? Does that not mean the Russian point of view in this conflict is the correct view?
Talk to me when the US arrests people for "homosexual propaganda"
The US doesn't bother with arresting. The US cops just shoot the black people.
SLAM DUNK! Now what russian gays? Cops kill black people in the US so stfu about your rights
whattaboutisms all the way down, must be hard being so obtuse
sunshine12608
Banned
But you're okay with Clinton's relationship with Saudi arabia? the content of the emails do not have less meaning regardless of where they come from, just like Trump's actions towards women isn't excused based on the timing of when those things come to light.
18 more days until this shit ends.
If Trump is elected there won't be a Saudi Arabia or a USA to worry about, only a series of radioactive craters.
andythinkpad
Member
Well he was career trained spy. That's how spy double talk. Also he is a smart guy. KGB only took the best of the best.
You completely missed the point and probably didnt read the post i was replying to.
How can you say this on the same page where the quote happened? I have all the context right here on this very page lol
andythinkpad
Member
This is like the new Godwin's Law.
sunshine12608
Banned
I could not imagine going through life thinking like this, perpetual fear and the constant feeling of witnessing oppression must be hard. Your statement actually takes away from the seriousness of our current police issue's
CoffeeJanitor
Member
This thread is like false equivalencies 101....why do we have to do this.
So please tell me how you came to the conclusion that i was excusing Russia's behavior towards homosexuals?
As you can clearly see in your screenshot Redhill said that the US doesn't violate minorities rights like Russia does.
My point was that the US violates minorities rights as well (in waht seems to me to be a systematic problem across the US and not "rogue" bad cops).
Nothing new about it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
There were jokes about this kind of response in the 60s
Classic whataboutism.
Bringing up the mistreatment of black people by the police to counter the russian legislation against homosexuals under the pretext that they are both minorities, so both countries are as bad, is disingenuous and you know it.
It also omits the fact that black people in Russia have to put up with more intolerence and straight up racism than black people in the US.
Like i clearly stated in the post you are quoting - It was not meant to counter.
Costia I know it is a wikipedia article but please read this so you can see why your line of argument is bringing up such scorn/derision
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
alleyezonme
Banned
I don't feel it does , the people who are dismissing his arguments are minimizing police brutality on African American's because they don't like whataboutism and it calls out the hypocrisy.
I just looked up whataboutism it was propaganda used by the Soviet Union in dealing with the western world. So can this really apply to americans?
I don't understand the way you are trying to contribute to this discussion.
copied from my edit of the prev. post:
I guess my "bigger" point is that "fuck Russia" usually comes along with "USA, fuck yeah", and i find it hypocritical to criticize Russia on it's internal and foreign policies while praising the USA for what is in some cases equally bad practices.
I didn't, and didn't intend to claim that the human rights situation in Russia is all nice and rosy. Because it's not.
alleyezonme
Banned
I am black and I will say first that I dont speak for all black people.
Did or do black people in Russia go through anything like the kkk, Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, rosewood massacre , or criminial justice laws out to get them?
I love people bringing up treatment of minorities in America as if it's on par or worse than whatever Russia does.
Please... continue to use the plight of my Black ass to distract from the fact that, as a super power, Russia is an authoritarian state only Trump could love.
As if you T R U L Y care about the plights of Blacks everywhere, not just America.
Please... continue to use the plight of my Black ass to distract from the fact that, as a super power, Russia is an authoritarian state only Trump could love.
As if you T R U L Y care about the plights of Blacks everywhere, not just America.
Specifically black? I would guess that minorities in Russia in general went through way worse.
Not true.
Not true at all. No one is minimizing anything except possibly Costia, and yourself, for trying to reduce an ongoing series of injustices and tragedies to be nothing more than a way of deflecting scrutiny and criticism from a country and regime that deserves both, in a topic expressly about that country.
People are dismissing his argument because it is an obvious and manipulative attempt to change the conversation from criticizing something he feels shouldn't be criticized by slyly playing to our emotions over something we all feel quite raw about
and yes whataboutism can be applied to Americans, it is a propaganda tactic that was used by the Soviets but it is not something that is unique to them.
alleyezonme
Banned
Like Ali said in my own words, I have no beef with people who have not done anything to me in another country where the place I live is my worse enemy.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Muslims, LGBT community, ethnic Tartars etc have experienced this in Russia. At least look this up before coming out with that.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Which is an incredibly stupid outlook. The shade of skin shouldn't be determinate of whether it is discrimination.
There was never a substantial black population in Russia like there is in the US so it is hard to point out any institutionalized racism focused at them specifically rather than them getting swept up in the various purges and pogroms instituted against minorities by the Soviets
There were however large purges instigated against the Roma, Homosexuals, Mongolian Russians, Ethnic Chinese Russians, The Polish, Western Emigres.
One single purge of this kind left between half a million and 2 million people dead according to the sources.
So while these purges weren't expressly aimed at the black community, they were caught up in them.
alleyezonme
Banned
In my opinion I don't think it excuses Russia , it's more like how can someone who is also doing bad talk down to another country as if they are good. Whataboutism is propaganda used by the Soviet Union against the west.
For Russia and it's people the US is bad and vice versa it all just depends on who you talk to. Their moral compass against the west . Until both of them fix their human rights how can one not call out out the other on their hypocrisy
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
A great documentary of Vice News about muslims tatars of Russia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FZWgHi3unU
Discrimination, deportation and forced assimilation.
It's doesn't make any sense to not condemn something because another country is doing it. Justifying misdeeds that Russia made against its minorities by the misdeed USA did to it's own, would just end relativizing both.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FZWgHi3unU
Discrimination, deportation and forced assimilation.
It's doesn't make any sense to not condemn something because another country is doing it. Justifying misdeeds that Russia made against its minorities by the misdeed USA did to it's own, would just end relativizing both.
alleyezonme
Banned
Of course it shouldnt , Ali was referring to the US trying yo draft him to war to fight people who had did nothing to black people when his own country didnt treat him right . Thats what I was referring to
Yes and they are wrong for that and it is inexcusable . The point is you cant expect people to not look at america like hypocrites and bring up the all the bad things they do and have done when they try and talk down to another country .
You need to look at my first post in this thread. USA needs to sort out it's racist cops, but Russia is on a different level for stuff done to minorities.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
BUT WADDABOUT AMERIKKA!!!
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
I don't believe is on a different level tbh.
US oppression against blacks is not just about "bad cops".
You're actually killing your argument.
Quoting Beefy's first post here.
alleyezonme
Banned
I would disagree , so the native americans then would be a better comparison even though I could bring more atrocities that america has done to black people.
history proves this wrong
Where did I say just "bad cop" I said racist cops, I also said minorities not just black people. Of course the US needs to sort it out and be far more harsh with the shit heads that carry out these crimes.
If you are on about black people/ minorites being treated as a second class citizens that isn't a US thing it's a world thing.
That is history and yes it is disgusting how we were treated by the US and other countries, my post is about the here and now. Yes the US still has a major problem, but it is nothing compared to the problems in Russia.
Neither the US or Russia are particularly great at this when looking at history.
How far back do we want to go here?
Jewish people in Russia for insantce have been persecuted, killed, exiled, subject to discriminatory law etc etc from like the 1100s when they were first allowed into the country to pretty much the present day. Under Catherine the Great for example Jewish people were restricted to a specific region where legally they were considered 1/3 of a person
Both the US and Russia have committed obscene atrocities against minorities in their time. Making a competition about it is tasteless to say the least.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
It just sound like racism in the USA is a moral issue and not a structural issue.
Like in Russia, you can get rid off of all these visually extreme manifestation of racism and bigotry, but it wouldn't change. Just look at Chechenya, one can argue that everything is fine since it's muslim "president" is in charge and he is the Putin's best friend, but Russia is still acting as a colonial power in Chechenya.
So if you want to actually address racism in USA, look at housing, education and the prison system. Killing by racist cops are just the top of the iceberg.
And now you're doing in your final comment exactly what you were originally accusing "whataboutism", and no it's not the same. I remember that black activist use to go to France or other countries to leave like an actual human being in the heat of segregation.
Every situation is unique. The oppression a black person can face in Spain or Greece is not the same that in the US.
Again this paragraph is not unique to the US. I live in the UK and it still happens here. It is getting better but far too slowly. You will find more black/ minorities in poor areas and jobs. There are hardly any minorities in politics. Etc etc
I never accused any one of whataboutism? Why are you trying to make up things? I actually get why people compare countries .
You should go visit Russia, from what I hear black people get the kind of treatment that would change your opinion.
Well, if you want to go further back in history since you mention the native americans, I think you should read about the USSR. Its leaders killed millions of their own people (estimated 50 mil. by Stalin alone).
TheLaughingStock
Member
Don't forget all the raping of black women vs. the meme that AA men rape white women and can't control themselves. Also, the systematic destruction of many folks in the black leadership by the state. Very bad stuff.
Kaleinc
Banned
They joined the party someone else started but joined nonetheless. Two aggressive juggernauts in a dick measuring contest fucking over and trampling the little guy that happens to get in the way. All this backed up by decades of mutual hate and non stop brainwashing which works wonders on weak uneducated minds. Same beasts minus cultural differences really.
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