Support NeoGAF

[Absoludacrous]

and yet people bitch about the final boss of Kane & Lynch 2

Do they? This is the first time I've seen someone admit they played K&L2 long enough to get to the final boss.

 

[antitrop]

Do they? This is the first time I've seen someone admit they played K&L2 long enough to get to the final boss.

That's what I was thinking, too.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Not even close. UC4 is the best playing TPS mechanically along with MGSV.

UC2's encounter design and pacing shames Last of Us and almost every TPS except RE4.

Gears, Gears 3,and Vanquish?

The thing about Gears games is that they are actually balanced around being cover shooters, and have the mechanics to support it.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Nepal through the monastary is God tier pacing that's why. I don't even think pacing is the issue really with the end of Uncharted 2, it's that some of the encounters are weak because the blue enemies suck, and the last shootout is literally just a corridor full of guys until the bad final boss.


And Uncharted 2 has some of the best TPS gameplay for the most part. Really excellent encounter design and level design where no two encounters are alike, lots of verticality to put your moveset to use, snappy and mobile controls, enemies that push you to move, power weapons on vantage points, crazy set pieces that are built into core gameplay, etc. It's good shit. But then the final section doesn't make use of a lot of these, or they are harmed because of poor enemy selection.

Yeah,some people still play it like a cover shooter but if you move around it's brilliant. Use the verticality and Drake's agility and it becomes something else entirely. And I will never get the bullet sponge complaint, train boss and end boss aside.

Heashots kill almost anything in an instant and power weapons exist for a reason. Good weapon management is key. Those blue dudes for example only take a few crossbow arrows.

 

[generic_username]

Gears, Gears 3,and Vanquish?

The thing about Gears games is that they are actually balanced around being cover shooters, and have the mechanics to support it.

Gears is a bog standard stop and pop shooter completely devoid of good encounter and level design. It is an okay MP game but that is about it. As far as single player games with campaigns go... it is not in the same league in my opinion.

Vanquish is cool mechanically but does not have too many great levels or varied encounters at all.

 

[Chalupa Batman]

I'm in a room at the moment in which I was fighting for 7-8 minutes against wave after wave of enemies and fucking nothing was happening and it just went on and on and it's one of the few times I've wanted to put the controller down - and then I died and I've had to start this entire fucking slog all over again.

In case you didn't figure it out yet, this room has an invisible checkpoint you must hit in order to stop the spawns. You have to vault over the barrier on the left side and make it down the stairs. Once you do that the enemies will stop spawning.

Your post/this thread is bad but I will ignore it and help you out because opinions, etc. Have a nice day!

 

[Garrett Hawke]

In case you didn't figure it out yet, this room has an invisible checkpoint you must hit in order to stop the spawns. You have to vault over the barrier on the left side and make it down the stairs. Once you do that the enemies will stop spawning.

Your post/this thread is bad but I will ignore it and help you out because opinions, etc. Have a nice day!

I just finished UC2, but how is this a bad thread? Because I listed a poor example lol?

There's plenty of other examples from UC2, and plenty of other games that other people have brought up.

 

[LycanXIII]

Halo Reach ends in a Horde Mode and the only way to complete it is to lose.

 

[Henkka]

I just finished a replay of UC2 today, didn't really have any problems like you listed. Then again, I played on Normal and have played through the game several time so I know what to expect. Are you talking about the blue guys? They're pretty bad, but you only really have to kill one and then pick up his golden crossbow.

 

[jahasaja]

I was looking forward to the inevitable boss fight with song bird in bioshock infinite.. But instead, horde mode..

 

[jelly]

Halo Reach ends in a Horde Mode and the only way to complete it is to lose.

That was ace but I did find Reach a bit annoying when missions resulted in horde encounters areas. At least you could do cool things in the sandbox and basically say screw it and move on in some places.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

I agree with pretty much all of that, except for the snappy controls. I find Uncharted's shooting really floaty and imprecise. I know a lot of people like the combat in Uncharted 1-3, but I don't think ND got shooting feeling right until The Last of Us, and Uncharted 4 is a HUGE improvement.

Uncharted 2 has some of the best encounter design of any TPS I've played this side of Resident Evil 4, but I just don't find the act of actually pointing and shooting at people to be as satisfying as I like.

Exactly why I had very difficult time enjoying the series. Uncharted 4's MP beta was really enjoyable. They learned a lot about making good TPS controls since TLOU. And seriously, fuck Uncharted 1-3's encounters. Some of them felt pretty unfair and took me many a time to get pass.

Agreed. I didn't bother to finish Max Payne 3 after numerous failed attempts at fending off the army of enemies at the end.

Sucks, because the game was enjoyable until the end.

Were you playing one of the greatest TPS moments ever on the hardest difficulty? Man, that does suck one way or the other. One of my most favorite parts of any shooter.

 

[Warxard]

Gears is a bog standard stop and pop shooter completely devoid of good encounter and level design. It is an okay MP game but that is about it. As far as single player games with campaigns go... it is not in the same league in my opinion.

Vanquish is cool mechanically but does not have too many great levels or varied encounters at all.

huh.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Never forget.

I wonder if devs even playtest their games on higher difficulties or do they simply up enemy count, make enemies more tough and brutal and their weapons more deadly and call it a day without even trying if the game is still fun that way.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

I feel like a lot of missions in Destiny end with a horde mode encounter or horde mode followed by a boss.

 

[Complicated]

This has been a problem in most TPS's in the last decade. I'm about to play Gears UE campaign again. It's the last TPS I remember having good pacing and encounter design, but I have no idea how I'll feel about it now. Vanquish has amazing encounter design mostly due to the gameplay tools they have to work with, but it's padded with filler encounters too. Naughty Dog games were really bad at this as well. Poor pacing, boring encounter design, and mediocre mechanics really bog down their storytelling style in between the scripted sections and cinematics.

 

[antitrop]

I wonder if devs even playtest their games on higher difficulties or do they simply up enemy count, make enemies more tough and brutal and their weapons more deadly and call it a day without even trying if the game is still fun that way.

Naughty Dog said Brutal was purposefully tuned to be the absolute hardest it could be, while having at least 1 playtester actually be able to finish it.

That poor fucking playtester. It's not really a difficulty meant to be taken seriously, though. You don't need to beat it to get the Platinum trophy, it's even considered its own separate trophy list just to show how much of a "we just did this because we could" kind of thing it was.

It was added in the Remaster really only to appeal to the select few that could already beat Crushing with their eyes closed. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be a "Oh, so you think you're good at Uncharted, do ya?" challenge to those that already mastered the games on PS3 and such.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

endless waves are THE worst thing in gaming, I don't get why developers think it's fun, just such a cheap way to make something "epic" or challenging

UC2 is practically ruined by that, I replayed the remastered game and switched it to easy to get through it

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

Yup I remember Uncharted 2 ending dragged on way to long

 

[Jarnet87]

i am done playing action adventure games. I just can't keep mindlessly killing wave after wave of enemies to get to the next story bit. I get much more enjoyment watching someone stream these type of games now. TLoU was the last one I played and it was a slog at times.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

The action adventure game is dead for me because of this. I just can't keep mindlessly killing wave after wave of enemies to get to the next story bit. I get much more enjoyment watching someone stream these type of games now. TLoU was the last one I played and it was a slog at times.

You should try Rise of the Tomb Raider. Apart from at the very end (again -_-) it has very few of these moments and many encounters can be stealthed or avoided altogether.

 

[bede-x]

I'm doing Gears of War Judgment this weekend and the campaign is almost entirely horde mode in different locations. Really poor design, especially in comparison to the previous three games that were varied and excellently paced. Judgment is still pretty decent, but that's because design like that is easier to get away with when you have co-op.

But yeah, Uncharted games aren't particularly well paced and neither is Gears Judgment.

 

[Drilbit777]

I love uncharted 2 but the train part and the final horde area just makes it a huge chore to play through.

 

[Fancy Clown]

I love uncharted 2 but the train part and the final horde area just makes it a huge chore to play through.

r u for real

 

[antitrop]

r u for real

I'm not a big Uncharted fan, but that train level was absolutely one of the best levels of any action game I have ever played.

Ya, there's a spongey as all get-out miniboss at the end of it, but he wasn't that annoying. I really enjoyed having to maneuver around the sides of the train, it really felt like exactly the kind of level that Uncharted's gameplay style was meant for.

That, and the sign shootout. That sign shootout was so good.

 

[Chalupa Batman]

I just finished UC2, but how is this a bad thread? Because I listed a poor example lol?

Nah I just disagree because Uncharted is my favorite series lol. But seriously, there's waves of enemies in every shooter or even platformers, for that matter. In something like Mario they're spread out across the level, but they're always there. Every game with enemies as the focus of combat encounters has this problem, otherwise all games would be two hours long because the AI would be nonexistent and it would just be cutscenes and platforming.

 

[OfTheOverflow]

I mean, it's a third person shooter, so...

 

[Fbh]

The problem with a lot of shooters in general is that many devs seem to mostly use bullet sponges as a way to create challenge.

And it's not just third person shooters. It's also a big problem in stuff like Destiny and Wolfenstein.

 

[Desi]

Ya, there's a spongey as all get-out miniboss at the end of it, but he wasn't that annoying. I really enjoyed having to maneuver around the sides of the train, it really felt like exactly the kind of level that Uncharted's gameplay style was meant for.

The Russian Mini-boss almost made me put down the game. Absolutely dreadful.

 

[antitrop]

The Russian Mini-boss almost made me put down the game. Absolutely dreadful.

I barely even thought twice about it. I mean the entire series is almost nothing but bullet-sponges, he was just a guy that took a few more.

 

[psynergylover]

I still have nightmares of playing uncharted 3 on hard and crushing at that Djinn stages.... The only time I will say " fuck you Naughty Dog!!!" That setpiece was straight bullshit

 

[G_Berry]

Rise Tomb Raider was terrible in a lot of places, reach area, flood of enemies make their way past convenient explosives and if you try to play it another way, holy hell grenade spam.

lol, I'm literally about to put this I and play it for the first time since I bought it at launch. Thanks for the heads up hahaha.

 

[like.a.ser]

Nepal through the monastary is God tier pacing that's why. I don't even think pacing is the issue really with the end of Uncharted 2, it's that some of the encounters are weak because the blue enemies suck, and the last shootout is literally just a corridor full of guys until the bad final boss.


And Uncharted 2 has some of the best TPS gameplay for the most part. Really excellent encounter design and level design where no two encounters are alike, lots of verticality to put your moveset to use, snappy and mobile controls, enemies that push you to move, power weapons on vantage points, crazy set pieces that are built into core gameplay, etc. It's good shit. But then the final section doesn't make use of a lot of these, or they are harmed because of poor enemy selection.

This this this. Every time I hear this complaint about UC2 (apart from the end, which I agree is total BS design) it's because people think "Oh, cover shooter," and proceed to play it like Gears of War. And you can play it that way, the game allows for it, but taking advantage of Drake's mobility and the verticality of the set pieces is important to the overall experience I think.

 

[antitrop]

This this this. Every time I hear this complaint about UC2 (apart from the end, which I agree is total BS design) it's because people think "Oh, cover shooter," and proceed to play it like Gears of War. And you can play it that way, the game allows for it, but taking advantage of Drake's mobility and the verticality of the set pieces is important to the overall experience I think.

I think a lot of that has to do with what difficulty level you're playing on. I feel like if you're really going to try to take advantage of the maneuverability and mixing in some hand-to-hand combat, you should probably just stick on Normal.

I'm playing through the Nate Drake Collection on Hard and I'm finding it best to just play it as safely as possible, which leads to it kinda just playing like Gears, yeah. Any time I try to mix it up a little bit, it just doesn't work.

The Last of Us is a game where I feel like it plays immensely better on Hard than it does on Normal, but I kind of feel the exact opposite way about Uncharted. The lower the difficulty, the more you can make Nate look like the invincible action hero he's supposed to be.

 

[like.a.ser]

I think a lot of that has to do with what difficulty level you're playing on. I feel like if you're really going to try to take advantage of the maneuverability and mixing in some hand-to-hand combat, you should probably just stick on Normal.

I'm playing through the Nate Drake Collection on Hard and I'm finding it best to just play it as safely as possible, which leads to it kinda just playing like Gears, yeah. Any time I try to mix it up a little bit, it just doesn't work.

The Last of Us is a game where I feel like it plays immensely better on Hard than it does on Normal, but I kind of feel the exact opposite way about Uncharted. The lower the difficulty, the more you can make Nate look like the invincible action hero he's supposed to be.

I haven't played UC2 on Hard, but I did try a couple of levels on Crushing before 'nope'ing right out of that godforsaken mess. So yeah, that's probably true.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Do they? This is the first time I've seen someone admit they played K&L2 long enough to get to the final boss.

Not hard considering it's barely even 4 hours long. I think people mostly complain about the completely flaccid ending.

 

[Somnid]

Hated this in TLOU. The entire game you clear and area and move on, and then at the end part you're sloging through reinforcement waves that come in once you kill the rest.

I did like Halo Reach's ending though. It was different (technically they stole it from Doom but I can't think of other games that do this) and fit the narrative.

 

[PFD]

Bioshock Infinite was guilty of this. The whole game was essentially like that, and the gunplay was atrocious, which made it even worse

 

[callsignkrogan]

Mass effect 3 earth.
Worst part of the game mission wise.

yea it was dreadful.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Gears of War judgement is literally just a series of horde modes stitched together with some exposition walking segments.
It doesn't even try to hide it. Whole thing feels like a mod rather than a full production.