Yeah; I thought it fantastic how he grew, but I just don't respect theists that much especially as someone very involved in afram social stuff.
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How Americans feel about Religious groups or atheists
- Thread starter Maninthemirror
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Yeah; I thought it fantastic how he grew, but I just don't respect theists that much especially as someone very involved in afram social stuff.
You can probably go far back into time to see people imposing beliefs on others and so forth tho.
JimmyRustler
Member
Same. Watched a couple of interviews with the Dalai Lama. Totally converted me. Everything he says is so much more inspiring than anything anyone from any other relegion has ever said.
I'm just surprised that so many of you have never been around a family or group for whom their religious faith is actually central to their life and not just a sunday morning ritual. Because when it is in fact something crucial to how you read morality, life, and human responsibility, then yes, of course you'd be concerned if your daughter married someone of a radically different persuasion who shared none of those beliefs. That's hardly "intolerance." It's a direct consequence of actually having a belief, instead of just relativizing even your own position as one more personalized choice or worldview amongst others. They didn't exactly attack a wandering atheist on the street in this clip; they just didn't like the idea of the daughter potentially marrying him. And yes, that is an extremely common sentiment in many groups and parts of the world.
GuitarAtomik
Member
This reminds me of some reality show I watched where they had two families switch races by transforming them with professional makeup everyday. Just looked it up. It was called "Black. White.".
The white mother (in black makeup) had kind of befriended a black lady during this and they were all super friendly until the black lady asked her what church she went to. The woman in disguise really casually just said something along the lines that she didn't go to church, and the black lady got EXTREMELY confused. Like she couldn't fathom it to the point that she was convinced at that point that something weird was up, and the white lady just had no idea until after the fact that saying that would have been a dead giveaway.
It's reality TV so it was probably all staged but, even so, the perception that it's weird to be black and not go to church was there even if it was written. I thought that was funny.
That's exactly what it is.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Catholics or Catholicism? They're not the same thing.
Something to back up or illustrate your point would be helpful. Remember that the scene concerned a potential future husband of their daughter; you're saying it's intolerant to be very concerned about your son or daughter marrying to someone whose beliefs are directly contradictory to the deepest held beliefs and way of life of your family. I simply can't agree with you there.
If the situation was someone in their family being gay instead of dating an atheist people would rightfully call them intolerant. This is the same thing. If your deepest held beliefs prevent you from treating people equally, then your belief are intolerant.
benjipwns
Banned
The only disagreement is on the existence of a God or not. They could agree on literally every moral position and way of life standard.
Treating everyone equally doesn't mean you pretend that everyone is inherently beyond reproach and that all decisions are inherently equal; that's how you treat children, not fellow adults. When it's a matter of someone potentially joining your family by marriage, treating them fairly and equally may indeed require that you directly confront them with your concerns.
Accepting someone doesn't mean refraining from all argument with them, and never voicing your disagreement.
Knowing the definition of intolerance should be good enough. You literally just described it in the sentences preceding your scare-quoted intolerance. Having what you believe is a good reason to be intolerant doesn't make you not intolerant.
Beyond that, the video in question completely ignores the man himself, or the daughter's love for him, and focuses solely on the fact that he has a different belief system. Yeah, that's classic, text book intolerance.
I'm an atheist. If my daughter brought home a religious fella, and I decided she couldn't date/marry him because we had different beliefs? That would make me intolerant.
I agree with you.
However, I'd like to explain why it is.
In the US, we're very heavily Christian, and there have been no major events like Bloody Mary's KILL ALL THE (SUBSECTS), so we don't have an inherent distaste of religion. Also, in the US, we're founded on not letting religion "rule" us (though it does), that we can't really "get over it."
So, for minority (nonChristians), we often come from a background that is very Christian. We're disillusioned, we're angry, and we "blame" religion for a lot of things we think are really wrong (while ignoring the good things religion do).
So, what you're seeing is basically the backlash to extreme Christianity, and the reaction to the people that came from it.
I think that most loud, vocally snarky atheists come from a background of extremely religious people. Or, they come from a background of being oppressed because they are not Christian. It doesn't help that so many Christians are somewhat evangelical, and also well-intentioned about saving everyone. It creates a hostile environment for non-Christians, part of they reason they are so snarky.
However, unlike other countries that are heavily religious, in the US you don't have anything to fear from being a snarky asshole. You won't get stoned or killed for it. You suffer some negative stigma from not being Christian, but because the fear of your life isn't a fear, there's nothing stopping you from reacting defensively and angrily.
So, the problem is sort of a circle, until the majority simply stops being so extremely Christian. Once the US turns more nonreligious (like all the other civilized European countries), we'll be fine and the snarky assholes will have to find something else to be superior about.
My family was always causally christian. Church is just like a social club with god finger food. I have a crazy evangelical sister though.
benjipwns
Banned
"TONIGHT ON THE FACTOR"
No, again it's treating him like a real adult and challenging his beliefs when he takes a seat at the family table and implicitly thereby makes a gesture towards one day entering the family. And it ended with the father very much taking into account his daughter's love, even going to her afterwards to say that her happiness is crucial to him. She was the one who decided to end the relationship based on what her parents revealed in that exchange (not based on a command, for none was given). That's not intolerance.
No one really forbid anything here, they just directly addressed the disagreement. And if your atheism is crucial to how you think one should live, I'd certainly expect you to do the same and at least confront the future spouse of your child to see where they stand, and to make your own concerns clear to your child.
They weren't challenging, they were abusive and aggressive. No one was interested in discussing it with him, they were interested in shaming him and driving a wedge between him and their daughter, which they succeeded in doing. Again, classic intolerance.
Regardless, we've wandered off-topic. This particular tape had its day in the sun on GAF already, but if people would like to discuss it further, feel free to start a new thread about it, because we're done discussing it in here.
TomcatTheLion
Member
Truth be told if what happened in that video were a real exchange (I'm sure it has happened to some) then the guy is better off not getting involved with that family. Being around people like that is often an insufferable endeavor.
You even described it in the underlined.
Edit: gotcha, besada.
intolerance
ɪnˈtɒl(ər(ə
noun
unwillingness to accept views, beliefs, or behaviour that differ from one's own.
You even described it in the underlined.
Edit: gotcha, besada.
shadowsdarknes
Member
That video is textbook intolerance.
Just because something is a deeply held belief doesn't mean that they are exempt from intolerance.
I'm intolerant of murderer's, rapists, etc. because that goes against my core beliefs.
I'd highly object to someone entering my family who was convicted of those things.
The only difference is: Being an atheist does not preclude you from caring about others, having empathy, and acting like a decent human being. It just means you deny the existence of a god.
A rapist or murderer likely has no respect for life and the right for others.
The family pretty much judged the entire content of his character based on the premise that he does not believe in God. It's a fallacious thought process and its pretty much textbook intolerance.
Edit: Got it. No more discussion.
Just because something is a deeply held belief doesn't mean that they are exempt from intolerance.
I'm intolerant of murderer's, rapists, etc. because that goes against my core beliefs.
I'd highly object to someone entering my family who was convicted of those things.
The only difference is: Being an atheist does not preclude you from caring about others, having empathy, and acting like a decent human being. It just means you deny the existence of a god.
A rapist or murderer likely has no respect for life and the right for others.
The family pretty much judged the entire content of his character based on the premise that he does not believe in God. It's a fallacious thought process and its pretty much textbook intolerance.
Edit: Got it. No more discussion.
Wow that clip. "How can you love anybody, if you don't love God?"
My brain almost stopped working when I heard this. If that's not intolerance, then I must not understand the concept. If you do not love God, you are not capable of love. Therefore anybody that does not love my god is incapable of love. Ok then.
I used to be heavily religious but then after time I discovered that religion just wasn't for me. How do you have discussions with people when they think a person cannot love without loving God or that if they do not convince somebody they are wrong that person will go to hell for all eternity? I understand there are other religions besides Christianity but I don't think any are for me because a nonbeliever is ultimately wrong with religion, because it's based on faith, not arguable facts.
All that being said, I'm fine with religious people, I even consider myself somewhat spiritual. Just don't talk to me about religion and we'll get along fine unless you are really prepared to be open-minded like I am.
My brain almost stopped working when I heard this. If that's not intolerance, then I must not understand the concept. If you do not love God, you are not capable of love. Therefore anybody that does not love my god is incapable of love. Ok then.
I used to be heavily religious but then after time I discovered that religion just wasn't for me. How do you have discussions with people when they think a person cannot love without loving God or that if they do not convince somebody they are wrong that person will go to hell for all eternity? I understand there are other religions besides Christianity but I don't think any are for me because a nonbeliever is ultimately wrong with religion, because it's based on faith, not arguable facts.
All that being said, I'm fine with religious people, I even consider myself somewhat spiritual. Just don't talk to me about religion and we'll get along fine unless you are really prepared to be open-minded like I am.
zero shift
Banned
Glad to see that the younger generation is more warm toward atheists and muslims.
I recall hearing how the guy was really an asshole because he wanted to create his own feudalist state. Or are Penn and Teller full of shit?
Buddhism is an atheist religion
My dad's family is like that, though a little less so I guess. I'm not unaware of this phenomenon - I just thought it was funny seeing that ridiculousness on a TV show.
If they didn't care I wouldn't have had an atheist trying to convert me from my agnosticism a few weeks ago.
RastaMentality
Banned
I've seen someone mention that blacks are primarily into Christianity because of slavery and basically the general response was "God works in mysterious ways".
Vincent Alexander
Member
Take that, Muslims! Atheists only suck the second most now. I dream of a day we can take home the bronze.
JimmyRustler
Member
You're not. Unlike other religion Buddhists do not kill in the name of their god (or claim to do so). That's a big difference.
Islam wouldn't be looked down upon so much if those extremists wouldn't claim they kill in the name of Allah.
The worst thing I ever did in a workplace was admit I was athiest. Despite continual hounding from the many of the religious folk there, I politely refused to discuss religion or my beliefs, but one simple sentence of declaring that I was atheist changed everything. I was no longer trusted, my work was never good enough, and I was shunned socially. I eventually quit that job.
Lesson learned. It's much, much better to just keep your mouth shut.
Catholic here, I get the feeling the Pope has a lot to do with the positive sentiment towards us. Even if there are systemic issues within the organization, I doubt many religions could ask for a better person to represent it.
As far as how I feel about religion. I'm at best a Sunday Catholic... every third Sunday. Maybe. Next year, for sure.
Girlfriend is Jewish, I've had potato pancakes, worn a yamaka and danced in a circle in a Bahtmizvah (sp?) for one of her younger cousins. Was okay I guess.
As far as how I feel about religion. I'm at best a Sunday Catholic... every third Sunday. Maybe. Next year, for sure.
I'm going to a wedding that counts right?
Can't help but think both Evangelist and Atheist are fooling themselves. Evangelist look at Jews as being the first kids of God keeping the Holy Land free of the Muslims. They are doing good work but will still go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. Atheist feel Buddhism is just a slightly organized form of self help and that it's not used as a system of power and control like other religions. Buddhism in the US is a joke with it mainly being rich white people driving a Prius or luxury car that meditate a few days a week.
I get the "but you seem so happy" or "your such a nice person" or "how can you believe in nothing"
dead souls
Member
Give me a break. The anti-theists are probably more visible because of how vocal they are but acting like they form a significant majority of of American atheists seems absurd.
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