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How bad are things really in Russia?

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Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
Russia is gigantic and I'm sure living in St. Petersburg is different from living in Norilsk, which is often cited as the most depressing city in the world:

KzBNroU.jpg
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Always look at the bright side of life, what a majestic mountain in the horizon... or is that the local dump.
...

I'd break up the yellow block in the middle and place a park there - wouldn't hurt to plant evergreens by the road.
 
Yamauchi said:
Here's a map of Russian regions based on HDI: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_subjects_of_Russia_by_Human_Development_Index - It's not exactly what you'd expect. Anything above 0.87 would be similar to Western Europe. 0.80-0.87 would be pretty typical to Eastern Europe. Areas below that would be pretty rough.
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You new avatar isn't much better than old one. Even Putin gave up on idea of "Novorussia" (whatever that means)

Also you have to realize that income distribution in Russia isn't necessarily even. HDI values access to healthcare and literacy for example, but if you look at life expectancy Russia is below North Korea.

With all of you "I love Russia" rhetoric, you should definitely go there. But not to Moscow. Aim for something more representative of average Russian. Anywhere 100 miles outside of Moscow should do.
 
Melon Husk said:
Always look at the bright side of life, what a majestic mountain in the horizon... or is that the local dump.
...

I'd break up the yellow block in the middle and place a park there - wouldn't hurt to plant evergreens by the road.
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You realize the town is a frozen tundra almost year round, right?
 
OP I suggest you get familiar with the idea of Clash of Civilizations by Huntington.

Western media likes to portrait Russia in worse light than they actually are (like Iran) ultimately because Russia doesn't share the same civilization as "The West".

Why does the media treat China more fairly? Because China do business with every facet of the western corporations and interest groups.

As for actually answering your question, I think there are enough grassroot reports from inside Russia on alternate media you can find it out yourself.
 
Melon Husk said:
Always look at the bright side of life, what a majestic mountain in the horizon... or is that the local dump.
...

I'd break up the yellow block in the middle and place a park there - wouldn't hurt to plant evergreens by the road.
Click to expand...

Norilsk is an awful place to be ...
 
It's interesting situation given that our two countries are probably enemies at this point. There's a lot of back and forth hostility at the political level, but I'm not sure it filters down to individual people.

I've had Russian coworkers, and interacted with Russian students when I was in school, and at no point did I ever think of them as enemies or "one of them." On the contrary most of them were just cool regular folk who were here to further their education or build a career. Sure there are some minor cultural differences but that's to be expected with anybody from another country. Those differences usually subsided after a few shots of Vodka :P

I would assume that as a visitor to Moscow I'd be treated the same way, provided I abide by the customs and courtesies that are present there. I think that most people would prefer to judge others by their individual actions rather than the country that they're born in.
 
It's sort of weird how the LGBT thing has taken off as the symbol for a bad Russia, when life for queer citizens of a number of European countries has been consistently shit for a very long time.

Even for EU members like Bulgaria, LGBT rights are nowhere near where they should be. Is it just due to Russia's size and influence?

I probably would be a little skittish living in Russia just because I know they would watch an American like a hawk, but I imagine my life there would be considerably better than in Tajikistan or Myanmar.
 
h1nch said:
It's interesting situation given that our two countries are probably enemies at this point. There's a lot of back and forth hostility at the political level, but I'm not sure it filters down to individual people.

I've had Russian coworkers, and interacted with Russian students when I was in school, and at no point did I ever think of them as enemies or "one of them." On the contrary most of them were just cool regular folk who were here to further their education or build a career. Sure there are some minor cultural differences but that's to be expected with anybody from another country. Those differences usually subsided after a few shots of Vodka :P

I would assume that as a visitor to Moscow I'd be treated the same way, provided I abide by the customs and courtesies that are present there. I think that most people would prefer to judge others by their individual actions rather than the country that they're born in.
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Every time my friend goes back to Russia she says that every single Russian asks her "What are Americans saying about us?". As if there was nothing but Russia in the news in the US. :)

SecretMoblin said:
It's sort of weird how the LGBT thing has taken off as the symbol for a bad Russia, when life for queer citizens of a number of European countries has been consistently shit for a very long time.

Even for EU members like Bulgaria, LGBT rights are nowhere near where they should be. Is it just due to Russia's size and influence?

I probably would be a little skittish living in Russia just because I know they would watch an American like a hawk, but I imagine my life there would be considerably better than in Tajikistan or Myanmar.
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I hate Russia, but you are totally correct when talking specifically about LGBT rights in large cities.
 
Media coverage tends to skew everything. Not always deliberately but it's a function of narrow coverage of anything.

Personally I find Russia not as bad as coverage in general, particularly in bigger cities, but it does have certain social and economic issues and I feel Putin's influence hasn't been great. Obviously it's particularly bad how it's currently viewing gays etc.

But media coverage of anywhere unless actually focused on balancing aspects results in a skewed view.

I remember being in Chile in Santiago when protests were occurring at UK embassy. On news it looked quite alarming. Strolling by the embassy later I saw it was all organised and controlled and the reality wasn't nearly what you mistakenly assume from narrow coverage.
 
I was born in Siberia and moved to Far East a couple years ago. Never been to Moscow. It's actually not that bad as media tells you. People are nice, and generally, we're not that much worse off than average gaffer. I study here. for example:

article+copy.jpg


Still, future doesn't look too bright economically-wise and in many other ways. Church has too much influence on culture and politics, the only relevant political party is Putin's one, politicians steal money to build luxurious houses and buy yachts, drugs, sportcars and stuff like that, and parlament is practically insane. I am going to leave after graduating, and so do most of my classmates. I don't believe in bright future, to be honest

I don't really have any stories to tell about LGBT movement, unfortunately, but, for example, people here go nuts for feminism. It's marginalized and hated, and I'm afraid to say that I'm feminist even to my relatives and long-time friends :/ Groups for feminists have less members than anti-feminist ones. Gender equality is really compromised in Russia.
 
TheMan said:
Interesting article, but doesn't give much insight for how someone with extra melanin could expect to be treated in Russia today.
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If you are a student there, the best thing is to walk in groups.

I'm angolan and there were reports in the past about some violence against angolan students living there. Looking online for the reports I found out that Cape Verde and Ginea Bissau students were also the target of attacks in the country.

Original sources are in portuguese but here's a quick google translate.

On the angolan one: http://www.angonoticias.com/Artigos/item/29905/militares-angolanos-violentamente-agredidos-na-russia
Two senior officers of the Angolan Armed Forces (FAA), were violently attacked in the city of Volks, south of the Federal Republic of Russia. They are students of the Military Logistics Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Republic.

Speaking to Portuguese television SIC, one of the officers assaulted explained how it happened and that local police refused to investigate the case.

"We were sitting when they appeared three Russian citizens who sent us out of the banks, saying it is now the turn of the white seats. It was then when they started beating us without mercy, "he said.

"We are targets of racist attacks, almost every day. They cal us blacks, monkeys and we can not say anything, "he lamented.

However, sources close to the Ministry of Defence of that European country, the police are investigating the case but prefers not to make any public statement now
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And the other one: http://darussia.blogspot.pt/2009/01/estudante-caboverdiano-alvo-de-ataque.html

"On January 11, José Maria, student of Linguistics Faculty of the University of Moscow People went to the store to shop. Two young men approached him from behind, squeezed his neck and began to stab him, "reports Lusa Maximum Neves, president of the Organization of Cape Verde Students in Russia.
"Zé Maria tries to escape, but took eight stab wounds in the hands and eight back. He was admitted to a hospital and was discharged recently "

...

"In 2008, in the capital they were committed more than 90 attacks on non-Slavic physiognomy of citizens. 47 were killed and 46 seriously injured, "said Vladimir Pronin, head of the Moscow police.
In 2004, a neo-Nazi group murdered Amaro Lima, student of Guinea-Bissau who was studying in the Russian city of Voronezh.
"Compared to 2007, last year there was an increase in racist crime in the order of 300%," he said.
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I was in Saint Petersburg for a long week last month and it was my first visit in Russia.

Monuments, museums and tourist attractions are perfectly renovated and feel world class.In some spots, you can find trendy cafes with students/artists that feel as sophisticated, even more so than in the Western capitals.

Outside these zones, it feels like the poorer parts of Eastern Europe like Romania or some places in Poland. It's catching up but still lagging behind.
Shops, restaurants, clothes stores are straight from European 80's-90's

And if you go off the beaten track you can find some places that make you feel like you are in a third world country with very poor people, especially senior citizens and completely run-down buildings with amazing architecture.

What struck me the most is the discrepancy between those two worlds: a coffee at Starbucks cost the same price as a full and generous meal in a working class cafeteria.
You really have those who have and those who have not.

As for the atmosphere it was quite relaxed and not heavy in any sense.
Did not see much pro Poutine propaganda on the tv channel that was on in the hotel lobby however, I was shocked to see so much coverage of road accidents and fatalities.
Russians drive like maniacs and we saw two wreckage in Petersburg.

I felt quite safe, much safer than I have ever felt in America (the idea that people are carrying guns makes me very uncomfortable) and we did not run into trouble with anybody. Most people were quite nice although the service was sometimes lacking but I think it's more because of a lack of training and the fact that foreign tourists are few compared to other countries.

A nice thing was too see so many people painting, drawing, playing music and having a genuine interest in the arts and culture.

It's just a snapshot of St Petersburg who is the arts and culture capital of the country.
I'd love to hear impressions from Russians.
 
chiimisu said:
I don't really have any stories to tell about LGBT movement, unfortunately, but, for example, people here go nuts for feminism. It's marginalized and hated, and I'm afraid to say that I'm feminist even to my relatives and long-time friends :/ Groups for feminists have less members than anti-feminist ones. Gender equality is really compromised in Russia.
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I'm not surprised. I was talking to a Russian girl a few months ago and told her I had a busy day ahead of me because I had a lot of laundry to do. She said, "Well, you need to get a wife so she can do that for you". And she was very serious. I told her, that's not really how it works in America anymore but she told me Russians are very traditional and wives do all of the house chores and cooking for their man
 
SliceSabre said:
I always got the impression Western(US) media make living in Russia seem to be a cold, always cloud, unforgiving hellhole where people are being beaten by Russia police on the streets even though that's probably not the case at all.
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What media have you been watching? That sounds like some crazy hyperbole. I've never gotten that impression.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
I'm not surprised. I was talking to a Russian girl a few months ago and told her I had a busy day ahead of me because I had a lot of laundry to do. She said, "Well, you need to get a wife so she can do that for you". And she was very serious. I told her, that's not really how it works in America anymore but she told me Russians are very traditional and wives do all of the house chores and cooking for their man
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Yeah that's true. 20-25 years is an expected age to get married and have at least the first child for woman. I'm only 20 but I already got asked when I'm going to have my first child a few times lol. Things got better in 90s and 00s, but "traditional values" (straight patriarchial married couple with 2 or more children, religious, anti-LGBT) are pushed very hard by the government in last few years. Abortions, sex education and things like that are viewed as something completely evil. Some people still believe in telegony! Plain misogyinistic "literature" about how you should abuse women is sold freely.
 
perfectchaos007 said:
I'm not surprised. I was talking to a Russian girl a few months ago and told her I had a busy day ahead of me because I had a lot of laundry to do. She said, "Well, you need to get a wife so she can do that for you". And she was very serious. I told her, that's not really how it works in America anymore but she told me Russians are very traditional and wives do all of the house chores and cooking for their man
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Me and my American wife could really use a Russian wife.
 
watershed said:
Unless you're living in a war zone or extreme poverty, the place you live in is pretty much guaranteed to not be as bad as how the media portrays it.
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As bad as WESTERN media (especially if one is an enemy of the west) portrays it, every country has good and bad areas. Stick to the good areas of any country and you'll be cool. The problem is that Western media (+ enemies of the west and their propaganda news outlets) finds a way to make the bad of any country seem like it's the only part that exists thereby skewing perception and making the populace ignorant of the world they live in. If all the bad in the U.S was the only thing presented in the media I don't think many would be willing to come here, so for anyone visiting a country you will have to do your own research, view the positives and negatives, see if the negatives would impact you badly and then make a decision.
 
MrKaepora said:
If you are a student there, the best thing is to walk in groups.

I'm angolan and there were reports in the past about some violence against angolan students living there. Looking online for the reports I found out that Cape Verde and Ginea Bissau students were also the target of attacks in the country.

Original sources are in portuguese but here's a quick google translate.

On the angolan one:
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Disappointing, but not out of line with what I've read about Eastern Europe in general. Oh well, there are plenty of other places in the world I can visit someday.
 
I have no interest in spending time in either Iran or Russia if even 10% of what the media and people say is true.
 
whytemyke said:
As a guy who lives in Detroit, let me tell ya... you're kinda right. Not 100%.
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I was just in Detroit last week and the media reports seemed pretty spot on. Downtown was a mix of nice new development and historic looking run down properties. I got gas at 7 mile and drove down a random street to see 2/3 of the houses missing, burnt, or boarded up.

Stadiums looked nice from the outside though.
 
VeeP said:
What? Dude basically said Iran has problems, but the media makes it much worse than it actually is.
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Much worse than the death penalty for homosexual activity ? Sorry if as a gay person I have no intention to ever step foot out there. The whole part about his mother and sisters is also misleading considering the state of women's rights in Iran. Making a post about the big bad western media transforming everything while acting like life is just peachy in Iran is pretty ironic in my opinion and I was just pointing it out.
If that's OP's standard when it comes to how "bad" a country is then yeah, Russia's situation is just fine.
 
azyless said:
Much worse than the death penalty for homosexual activity ? Sorry if as a gay person I have no intention to ever step foot out there. The whole part about his mother and sisters is also misleading considering the state of women's rights in Iran. Making a post about the big bad western media transforming everything while acting like life is just peachy in Iran is pretty ironic in my opinion and I was just pointing it out.
If that's OP's standard when it comes to how "bad" a country is then yeah, Russia's situation is just fine.
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How is it misleading?

This is what women were forced to wear decades ago in Iran and had zero rights.

iranian_ninjac.jpg


Now they can wear that, or walk around like this;

iranwomen2.jpg



The progress and change in their rights and attitude towards them within the country cannot be denied.

But some media still portrays them as they were decades ago.

That was my entire point with this thread. I never defended their anti-gay policies or anything else. Just stated how they are portrayed as a stone age civilization and some people actually think that, whereas it is not like that.

And please...please. As if whatever country you live in is the bastion of human rights. Everyone has its problems. This thread was more about how things are portrayed versus how they are.
 
Kraftwerk said:
.
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Of course there's been progress, doesn't mean it's enough and things are suddenly anywhere near okay in Iran. I'm sure those women in the 2nd picture aren't laughing about the state of abortion laws and rape trials in Iran, the headscarf being obligatory, etc. so yes when you write about how your sisters and mothers were able to go out on their own or whatever I find it misleading.
I also don't know what media you're watching because over here things I've seen seem pretty accurate, if not biased towards positive things like the food or the landscapes while completely glossing over all the issues.
 
azyless said:
Of course there's been progress, doesn't mean it's enough and things are suddenly anywhere near okay in Iran. I'm sure those women in the 2nd picture aren't laughing about the state of abortion laws and rape trials in Iran, the headscarf being obligatory, etc. so yes when you write about how your sisters and mothers were able to go out on their own or whatever I find it misleading.
s.
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Wait..how is that misleading. How is my sister and mother going out on their own in Iran misleading? Jesus Christ. This isn't Saudi Arabia.
 
chiimisu said:
I was born in Siberia and moved to Far East a couple years ago. Never been to Moscow. It's actually not that bad as media tells you. People are nice, and generally, we're not that much worse off than average gaffer. I study here. for example:

article+copy.jpg


Still, future doesn't look too bright economically-wise and in many other ways. Church has too much influence on culture and politics, the only relevant political party is Putin's one, politicians steal money to build luxurious houses and buy yachts, drugs, sportcars and stuff like that, and parlament is practically insane. I am going to leave after graduating, and so do most of my classmates. I don't believe in bright future, to be honest

I don't really have any stories to tell about LGBT movement, unfortunately, but, for example, people here go nuts for feminism. It's marginalized and hated, and I'm afraid to say that I'm feminist even to my relatives and long-time friends :/ Groups for feminists have less members than anti-feminist ones. Gender equality is really compromised in Russia.
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But have you seen an amur leopard?
 
Kraftwerk said:
Wait..how is that misleading. How is my sister and mother going out on their own in Iran misleading? Jesus Christ. This isn't Saudi Arabia.
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I thought I was pretty clear, sorry if that wasn't the case. It seems like you're saying everything is well for iranian women and the media is blowing things out of proportion when it comes to women's rights since "your sister and mother are able to go out", when it's not.
 
Russia is an autocratic country with little press or individual freedom since Putin took charge in 1999 (he temporarily stepped aside due to a term limit but he still effectively ran the country during Medvedev's time).

It's aggressive to the point where it will take back areas it willingly ceded to other countries (the Ukraine) while pretending that it didn't invade the area.

Russia has so many frozen conflict zones on its borders due to how it behaves. It would have one in the Baltics too if those countries weren't part of NATO.

fsu-frozen-conflicts_20140905_624.gif


The conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia has nothing to do with Russia, really, but the rest are all due to Russia.

So you people talk about Western media being overly critical in your eyes, but that isn't true. Russia is a bully.

As for actually living there, well, considering the economy is not doing great, partially due to sanctions, it's not fantastic. It doesn't have one of the highest living standards in the world or anything. Fantastic natural beauty, however.
 
Mung said:
Currently Russia is considered a political enemy of the 'west' so the anti-Russian media is in overdrive. It's nowhere near as bad as it is made out to be. And if a pro-western leader is put in charge, watch the image of Russia change within months.
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Well Putin's 63, so we've got probably at least another decade, maybe two.
 
Kraftwerk said:
I used to live in the Middle East, and specifically Iran. Now, I won't defend the government as they did horrible things to certain individuals when they arrested them, and the press didn't have 100% freedom.

Then I came to Europe and North America, and one thing I noticed was how badly and extremely Iran was portrayed on the news. Everytime there was a story about Iran they would only show women in Burqas and people walking on a non paved road which was actually footage from some village. It was really odd.

Iran was nothing like that. I was there with my mother and two sisters, and they wore fairly modern clothing and could go out on their own and the government was constantly updating infrastructure and modernizing the city.

Again, this is about how Iran was in reality versus how it was portrayed in western media. Not defending their bullshit.

So my question is, how bad is Russia really?

I keep seeing media tak about it like its some extreme dictatorship with Putin constantly slaughtering and jailing people and the press has zero freedom and they have lynch mobs waking around beating up gay folk.

The situation simply reminded me of what I saw with the counteies I have been to, and I was curious to see what others think of it.


This thread has been brought to you by the KGB pr department.
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Bad enough for this to happen to you if you cross putin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
Russia is gigantic and I'm sure living in St. Petersburg is different from living in Norilsk, which is often cited as the most depressing city in the world:

KzBNroU.jpg
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I find this pic incredibly fashinating in a weird oppressing way.
Like, that skyrocketed to the top of the cities i want to visit.

VISIT.
Visit =/= Live in.
 
royale said:
It really doesn't seem that bad there. The worst things there seem like the cold and no internet. =/

http://siberiantimes.com/other/others/features/life-behind-closed-doors-in-the-arctic-is-fun/
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Yeah, it doesn't look like City 17 in these pics.
I'm disappointed : |

This is interesting...It's in Krasnojarsk Region.
My brother's wife is from Krasnojarsk (the city) , now that i think of it.
Not that this is in any way relevant since Krasnojarsk Region is 2,3 MILLIONS km² ..
 
It's basically US with modern McCarthyism. Replace black people with gays as well as the conservative attitude towards economics with conservative attitudes towards the church. Obviously it's more nuanced but despite the propaganda both countries are eerily similar.
 
Nabbis said:
It's basically US with modern McCarthyism. Replace black people with gays as well as the conservative attitude towards economics with conservative attitudes towards the church. Obviously it's more nuanced but despite the propaganda both countries are eerily similar.
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How do Muslims fair in Russia over the US?
 
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