Support NeoGAF

[hooijdonk17]

The Xbox One supposedly doesn't have ads, so why put that rant here? If anything you should be more inclined to renew your sub if ads were the main thing that was really bothering you.

Just like this.. right?

Well, we all know how that one went..

 

[spwolf]

well, i guess MS competes in their own way... Ps3 won the livingroom war and became biggest netflix player of them all.... doesnt really stop MS from putting out PRs that suggest otherwise

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

And yet Sony's PS3 is the number 1 platform for Netflix.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

The Xbox One supposedly doesn't have ads, so why put that rant here? If anything you should be more inclined to renew your sub if ads were the main thing that was really bothering you.

"Recommended" games, movies music is still advertising.

 

[aronmayo2]

So people have no problem paying for Netflix but do have a problem paying for Xbox Live? So maybe Netflix should be free too. Both companies run a service and expect people to pay to be able to use that service....they're running businesses, not charities.

 

[thepotatoman]

So people have no problem paying for Netflix but do have a problem paying for Xbox Live? So maybe Netflix should be free too. Both companies run a service and expect people to pay to be able to use that service....they're running businesses, not charities.

Wow.

Yeah you're right. Asking for Netflix to not be behind behind an additional pay wall like every single other device in the entire industry made up of thousands of netflix devices is exactly like asking Netflix to be free too...

 

[hooijdonk17]

So people have no problem paying for Netflix but do have a problem paying for Xbox Live? So maybe Netflix should be free too. Both companies run a service and expect people to pay to be able to use that service....they're running businesses, not charities.

The difference is that Netflicks charges you to provide a service while Xbox Live charges you to access another service (you already paid for) through Microsoft's arbitrary (and completely unnecessery) distribution channel.

 

[Canis lupus]

So people have no problem paying for Netflix but do have a problem paying for Xbox Live? So maybe Netflix should be free too. Both companies run a service and expect people to pay to be able to use that service....they're running businesses, not charities.

Lol. Why is one service behind the other service?

 

[Beerman462]

Why is this thread still active
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=649331

 

[Finalizer]

So people have no problem paying for Netflix but do have a problem paying for Xbox Live? So maybe Netflix should be free too. Both companies run a service and expect people to pay to be able to use that service....they're running businesses, not charities.

I don't know if you're just hopelessly trying to justify MS' position or have just managed to completely miss the point, but maybe you've heard that these apps being discussed here are free on every other device under the sun? That's the problem people have with Gold right now - it isn't adding any extra value, it isn't providing any benefit to those services in and of themselves, it's just putting an unnecessary paywall in front of things that it shouldn't be in the first place.

 

[ChiliManiac]

The difference is that Netflicks charges you to provide a service while Xbox Live charges you to access another service (you already paid for) through Microsoft's arbitrary (and completely unnecessery) distribution channel.

So what you're telling me? Is all this arguing is over just a few apps that actually make it a multimedia device that does more than game? Wasn't the whole argument that this device is becoming more of a gaming machine by allowing services such as Netflix on the machine? Dear lord in heaven the hypocrisy. You pay for a gaming machine, that's what you want and now you're complaining when Microsoft charges you for more than just the gaming capability?

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

With this generation the justification was that most of the media applications came after the Gold userbase was established. At this point, media applications are an accessory to an existing subscription rather than a reason to create one. I suspect that the reset button will make people rethink what they are getting from xbox live, especially since the Xbone has no backwards compatibility (which is basically the only justification to hold onto either a PSN or Live account).

 

[ChiliManiac]

With this generation the justification was that most of the media applications came after the Gold userbase was established. At this point, media applications are an accessory to an existing subscription rather than a reason to create one. I suspect that the reset button will make people rethink what they are getting from xbox live, especially since the Xbone has no backwards compatibility (which is basically the only justification to hold onto either a PSN or Live account).

Most of these services didn't exist when Microsoft was launched and Skyping was really only viable when Kinect came out...so I'm sure these services would have been included as part of the subscription in the first place if Microsoft had the ability to back then.

 

[Faith]

I just don't understand why I have to see these ads if I pay for Gold?

 

[ChiliManiac]

I just don't understand why I have to see these ads if I pay for Gold?

We have adds in the PS+ store...and they're a lot more invasive than this stuff. This really isn't that bad.

 

[archnemesis]

I just don't understand why I have to see these ads if I pay for Gold?

It's their new policy going forward. You'll see it in a lot more places in the future. -- Ballmer: "advertising, advertising, advertising!"

We have adds in the PS+ store...and they're a lot more invasive than this stuff. This really isn't that bad.

At least it's easy to opt out from the Ticker in the OS. You're right about the store, but at least it's only ads for games that you can immediately buy.

Most of these services didn't exist when Microsoft was launched and Skyping was really only viable when Kinect came out...so I'm sure these services would have been included as part of the subscription in the first place if Microsoft had the ability to back then.

What? Skype has been popular for almost a decade and it's free everywhere else, even on other dedicated gaming systems.

 

[ChiliManiac]

It's their new policy going forward. You'll see it in a lot more places in the future. -- Ballmer: "advertising, advertising, advertising!"

At least it's easy to opt out from the Ticker in the OS. You're right about the store, but at least it's only ads for games that you can immediately buy.
What? Skype has been popular for almost a decade and it's free everywhere else, even on other dedicated gaming systems.

Remember...a decade is more than 8 years ago so that's only 2 years prior to the launch of the 360 and social media hadn't really caught on back then except for myspace in it's early stages.

 

[hooijdonk17]

So what you're telling me? Is all this arguing is over just a few apps that actually make it a multimedia device that does more than game? Wasn't the whole argument that this device is becoming more of a gaming machine by allowing services such as Netflix on the machine? Dear lord in heaven the hypocrisy. You pay for a gaming machine, that's what you want and now you're complaining when Microsoft charges you for more than just the gaming capability?

Dude you seriously have some reading comprehension problems.

 

[archnemesis]

Remember...a decade more than 8 years ago so that's only 2 years prior to the launch of the 360 and social media hadn't really caught on back then except for myspace in it's early stages.

I'm not sure what you're arguing for. Microsoft hides services behind a paywall because there are enough people who are willing to pay for it. The popularity or age of the service makes no difference whatsoever. Skype caught on immediately because it was an easy way for people to call ĺong-distance calls for free.

 

[ChiliManiac]

Dude you seriously have some reading comprehension problems.

Thanks for the Ad hominem

 

[ChiliManiac]

I'm not sure what you're arguing for. Microsoft hides services behind a paywall because there are enough people who are willing to pay for it. The popularity or age of the service makes no difference whatsoever. Skype caught on immediately because it was an easy way for people to call ĺong-distance calls for free.

Well, I agree with the argument about Skype and Netflix but the idea that Microsoft should be demonized for having a paywall is a little ridicules. They're a business and should be allowed to make money for a premium service. These things aren't cheap to run.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Thanks for the Ad hominem

It was still better sport than your demagoguery which adressed nothing from what you quoted. I present an argument and you walk around it by arguing something else and pretending you are adressing it, and in return you expect courtesy? Good luck. Read before you write and we may have a more meaningful conversation.

 

[ChiliManiac]

It was still better sport than your demagoguery which adressed nothing from what you quoted. I present an argument and you walk around it by arguing something else and pretending you are adressing it, and in return you expect courtesy? Good luck. Read before you write and we may have a more meaningful conversation.

Or you can get off your elitist high horse and we can have a normal conversation with varying non conformist opinions. Anyway, I'm done Sir have a good night.

 

[Bigmac1910]

Thanks for the Ad hominem

I guess you wouldn't mind if you needed to subscribe to Netflix in order to be able to access and PAY for xbla gold. Lol.

 

[archnemesis]

Well, I agree with the argument about Skype and Netflix but the idea that Microsoft should be demonized for having a paywall is a little ridicules. They're a business and should be allowed to make money for a premium service. These things aren't cheap to run.

Their competitors have been able to run similar services without charging for it, so it's likely not that expensive. Customers should look after their own interests and it's absolutely within their rights to demonize company policies they disagree with.

 

[Mael]

Well, I agree with the argument about Skype and Netflix but the idea that Microsoft should be demonized for having a paywall is a little ridicules. They're a business and should be allowed to make money for a premium service. These things aren't cheap to run.

Netflix, Youtube, Skype and Explorer use MSFT's servers or something?
Why is it ok for MSFT to charge for Netflix on Gold but stupid to charge on Windows 8?

 

[hooijdonk17]

Or you can get off your elitist high horse and we can have a normal conversation with varying non conformist opinions. Anyway, I'm done Sir have a good night.

Really?

Look, case in point; where have I or anyone in this conversation adressed gaming functions on Xbone being behind a paywall? Why do you even bring in gaming to the discussion? Why are you trying to make it look like we are paying for gaming and the streaming is an extra when the whole point of the conversation is that a) for Xbone as a main media hub the paywall makes no sense b) Netflix is a service you pay Netflix for, so re-paying Xbone is counter-intuitive?

What are you trying to achieve aside from the obvious trolling? 'Ad hominem' my ass. You get what you ask for.

 

[xxracerxx]

We have adds in the PS+ store...and they're a lot more invasive than this stuff. This really isn't that bad.

Sure in the store we have ads....not when I actually turn on the console itself*.



*besides the small ticker in the corner

 

[Wickerbasket]

We have adds in the PS+ store...and they're a lot more invasive than this stuff. This really isn't that bad.

I expect people to attempt to sell me stuff when I enter a store.

I don't expect it on a desktop.

I hate how intrusive advertising is becoming; it's becoming the norm to have it everywhere.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Netflix, Youtube, Skype and Explorer use MSFT's servers or something?
Why is it ok for MSFT to charge for Netflix on Gold but stupid to charge on Windows 8?

The way I see it there is a cost associated with running Live and getting content for the apps. This cost is split between people who want to play online games, people who want to use media services and people who want to do both.

If the only charge was for people to game online then they would be subsidising everything else would they not? It's a simplistic way to look at things but you get my point.

 

[cyberheater]

I'm on Xbox Gold. I have never played an online game on my Xbox 360.

 

[NullPointer]

We have adds in the PS+ store...

The key word there is "store", that place you go to buy things and see whats on offer or on sale.

A dashboard is not a store - its a place to manage your device's features. If they put all of their ads in the storefronts there'd be nothing to bitch about regarding the ads.

 

[Mael]

The way I see it there is a cost associated with running Live and getting content for the apps. This cost is split between people who want to play online games, people who want to use media services and people who want to do both.

If the only charge was for people to game online then they would be subsidising everything else would they not? It's a simplistic way to look at things but you get my point.

What?
the only service they're providing is the store front to download the apps, the rest is totally not handled by them like AT ALL (or is free elsewhere).
I mean WTF, is this 95 again and people pay for internet browsers just because?

 

[petran79]

so the XB1 will be even more casual than the Wii...but at least there you didnt pay a subscription.

 

[Wickerbasket]

The way I see it there is a cost associated with running Live and getting content for the apps. This cost is split between people who want to play online games, people who want to use media services and people who want to do both.

If the only charge was for people to game online then they would be subsidising everything else would they not? It's a simplistic way to look at things but you get my point.

That doesn't make any sense.

Netflix uses it's own content servers and yet they still charge for access to that. Youtube uses it's own servers, and the browser uses whatever server it's connecting to for the website you visit.

It doesn't make sense to charge for those Apps because it costs them nothing to run and they're free everywhere else.

Skype is the only one they could legitimately charge for, as they own the servers, but even that is free on every other platform.

It just makes the Xbox One seem like bad value in comparison to other devices if you're looking for a media centre. They're charging you for access to other companies services.

 

[Durante]

I expect people to attempt to sell me stuff when I enter a store.

I don't expect it on on desktop.

Yeah, it's that simple.

I hate how intrusive advertising is becoming; it's becoming the norm to have it everywhere.

 

[Garrett 2U]

I just don't understand why I have to see these ads if I pay for Gold?

I don't think those are even advertisements.. That is the "My Pins" section which is content you bookmarked.
That is probably just an example of the different content you can pin and how it displays.

In fact it only makes sense that those are the pins because there is nothing else that could be the pinned content.

 

[chicken_ramen]

I just don't understand why I have to see these ads if I pay for Gold?

Wow, one - I keep forgetting that the One will be using metro. I can't imagine that's a good controller interface, the thumbstick will need to work too much like a mouse. I'm not unhappy with Windows 8 but metro is a touchscreen design, shoehorning it into every product is a mistake.

Two, with a large enough install base the ads are worth more than the subscriptions. Gold doesn't promise an ad free experience, and your subscription doesn't cover what MS would lose if those ads were never seen by all their most dedicated customers. Gold subscribers are really who the advertisers want their ads to be in front of.

 

[Faith]

I don't think those are even advertisements.. That is the "My Pins" section which is content you bookmarked.
That is probably just an example of the different content you can pin and how it displays.

In fact it only makes sense that those are the pins because there is nothing else that could be the pinned content.

I hope you're right. I always wanted a personal user interface. Hopefully I can pin stuff like downloaded games

 

[xxracerxx]

I hope you're right. I always wanted a personal user interface. Hopefully I can pin stuff like downloaded games

Sorry bud, you can pin only things like The Mindy Project and other awesome apps. /s

 

[Garrett 2U]

I hope you're right. I always wanted a personal user interface. Hopefully I can pin stuff like downloaded games

Yeah I am 99% sure that is what it is.
They have pins on the 360 already and you can certainly do that

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Can you explain why people have to pay Microsoft an extra fee to use Netflix, Skype or Internet Explorer when they're free on every other platform?

Thoese "extra channels" are called youtube, netflix, Internet explorer, skype ect. and are free and available on a lot of other, cheaper devices for free. Yet on the "premium media machine" Xbox one you have to pay for them....

You don't need cloud computing/downloads for Youtube.

Gee, iunno, maybe the part where apps that are free on virtually every other device are behind an additional paywall only on Xbox devices would be a good start. It might just be undermining that whole media-centric device message a bit. Maybe.

1. I already said for 360 I half understand the sentiment.

2. I'll take a paid service over free services anyday. I like having phone support and warranty at any time.

3. In terms of X1/Azure it's the delivery of said services, again take a look at the Content Distribution Network (CDN) and Azure datacentres then you'll realise how much better movies or regional dedicated server are for your X1 games/apps/services. Being in Australia I can stream 1080p movies with no frame or quality loss via Xbox. When I do this via standard PC the results aren't so great. For a quality service across my games, movies and apps I am happy to pay $50-$100 per year for that quality and reliability.

4. Additional benefits we may not be aware of as yet e.g. Skype multi conferencing, which is a paid service on other devices/mediums.

5. Additional services like the NFL interactivity require development and staff.

6. Kinect navigation for such services and apps requires development and upgrades.

7. Just because a service is free on another platform doesn't make it apples and apples.

8. The cost is shared between games, movies, music, apps, browsing etc. Gold covers you for all services e.g. more than just YouTube.

9. Value added services e.g. Games with Gold. I have downloaded 2 full free games in the last 4 weeks alone.

I personally prefer a paid service for all of the above.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

MS can charge because their media options are far superior to Sony's and come long before Sony gets them. Sony are reactive when it comes to media (e.g. Netflix, which is now better on PS3 than 360 though) while MS is proactive.

That's not entirely true. Crunchyroll on PS3 but I don't even know if its on 360.

 

[xJavonta]

Those people... I can't.... just... no

The paywall only works for gamers and makes zero sense for non-gamers, so no, I don't think it does compete. Who here would recommend the bone to a non-gamer? Anybody?

People who buy the thing and pay the fee to use Netflix are just... *holds tongue*

The 360s Netflix app is a LOT nicer than the PS3s

Honestly that's the only reason I haven't cancelled my sub yet.

 

[Gori]

I just don't see the issue OP, you sign a monthly or annual contract for your cable box/channels and even pay extra for certain channels. What's the difference exactly?

Further when you actually understand the Content Delivery Network (CDN) of the Azure cloud you'll see why you're paying for a premium service. Previous 360/XBL I could half understand your thread but X1/Azure you've lost me mate.

Dude. You're basically just throwing out words that you have no idea what they mean.

Azure has nothing to do with Netflix, that's an independently hosted service.

 

[xJavonta]

Dude. You're basically just throwing out words that you have no idea what they mean.

Azure has nothing to do with Netflix, that's an independently hosted service.

Yeah. Pretty sure Azure is only for Microsoft hosted content and Netflix uses Amazon for their servers.

 

[JaggedSac]

I just don't understand why I have to see these ads if I pay for Gold?

Those are not ads, that is content that the user has pinned to their "My Pins" section.

EDIT: Beaten

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Dude. You're basically just throwing out words that you have no idea what they mean.

Azure has nothing to do with Netflix, that's an independently hosted service.

And you're only looking at one or two apps. As I stated Gold covers more than YouTube or Netflix. I am happy with the cost of XBL/X1 Gold for my movie rentals via Xbox, not just Netflix. I am happy to pay for my Sydney and Melbourne Azure datacentres giving me Halo/games with Aussie regional servers. I am patient and will see about value added services like multi-Skype or Games with Gold.

Next time try reading all my points instead of cherry picking.

I have been using Azure daily for 2+ years in web dev/hosting and I certainly am aware of what content can benefit from it or not.

I haven't even touched on cloud processing, call video/audio quality or potential future services such as gameplay streaming or live streaming either.

When you understand the difference between PC based ISP hops around the world and what Azure/CDN will be delivering with X1 feel free to post a reply regarding the quality differences.

 

[Dunlop]

The 360s Netflix app is a LOT nicer than the PS3.

No that is just crazy talk,I must have a dozen devices with Netflix and the ps3 version spanks then all

(I know it is an personal opinion)

 

[Finalizer]

So what you're telling me? Is all this arguing is over just a few apps that actually make it a multimedia device that does more than game? Wasn't the whole argument that this device is becoming more of a gaming machine by allowing services such as Netflix on the machine? Dear lord in heaven the hypocrisy. You pay for a gaming machine, that's what you want and now you're complaining when Microsoft charges you for more than just the gaming capability?

You may have noticed that the whole multimedia hub thing is supposed to be a big selling point of the Xbone. Just take a gander back at the original reveal if you don't believe me. Far as we all know, that's still one of the big pillars of the Xbone platform, which is the crux of this argument, that having basic multimedia apps behind the XBLG paywall weakens the message of an all-in-one entertainment device when other, significantly cheaper devices provide these same offerings for free.

Now if the whole "hypocrisy" thing is directed toward those who argue against the Xbone being this all-in-one device over being a dedicated gaming device, that's one thing, but realize that it's basically irrelevant to the discussion at hand in the first place.