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How China is Changing Hollywood

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You got me, guess we can never criticize USA. Or is it HARMONIOUS USA, I forget.

FTFY.

See how that works? You bring up shit that makes you look bad, and try to deflect hypocrisy with idiotic phrase like whataboutism. You don't realize how stupid you look when you bring this up.

Everyone knows all the problems with China. That's like pointing out water is wet. When you try to bring up problems that exists in your own country as reasons not to work with another country, you start to sound like a certain orange clown. You know, evil Chinese communists are taking our movies. Make Hollywood Great Again!
 
I'm really not trying to start some weak whataboutism argument here. I totally recognize the negative aspects of China rising as a global economy. It's something people SHOULD be concerned about. But I think that getting upset at -China- because Hollywood is pandering to the Chinese audience for blockbusters, is a stupid ass thing. Just my observation. Maybe that didn't come across particularly well!

Yes, be upset with the tourists at the buffet with the plates for diggers of crab legs instead.

Also, does this mean Jackie Chan is like a billionaire?
 
The bottom line is:

If we ignore censorship concerns since they are effecting mostly valueless popcorn Hollywood blockbusters, we head down a very dangerous road.

Appealing to a wider audience is fine, and expected. Censorship is what I have a problem with foremost, the protectionist policies being a somewhat distant second.

Movie Makers thus far have made movies to appeal to US Viewers (with cursory interludes into European considerations). These decisions were made because what's what the audience wanted, not what the government wanted.

This!!
 
The bottom line is:

If we ignore censorship concerns since they are effecting mostly valueless popcorn Hollywood blockbusters, we head down a very dangerous road.

Appealing to a wider audience is fine, and expected. Censorship is what I have a problem with foremost, the protectionist policies being a somewhat distant second.

Movie Makers thus far have made movies to appeal to US Viewers (with cursory interludes into European considerations). These decisions were made because what's what the audience wanted, not what the government wanted.

If we're talking about Hollywood, this is self censorship. Kind of a bid difference.
 
The bottom line is:

If we ignore censorship concerns since they are effecting mostly valueless popcorn Hollywood blockbusters, we head down a very dangerous road.

Appealing to a wider audience is fine, and expected. Censorship is what I have a problem with foremost, the protectionist policies being a somewhat distant second.

Movie Makers thus far have made movies to appeal to US Viewers (with cursory interludes into European considerations). These decisions were made because what's what the audience wanted, not what the government wanted.

Sorry to throw this back at you, but now I think -you- are making a really flawed argument here. Let's talk about what censorship actually is. Censorship is when something is suppressed because of rules from an authority. So when a filmmaker makes a movie, if the studio does a focus test and decides the audiences don't really like the ending and force the filmmaker to change it, that is censorship. It doesn't matter what the audience wants, the filmmaker is being censored by the authority the studio has over the film. That already happens all the time. It doesn't just affect blockbusters. By saying that appealing to a wider audience is fine and expected, you have already ignored censorship concerns and gone down the dangerous road. Before it has anything to do with China.

As long as studios control films, the censorship you fear is there. Not wanting to cast a person of color as a lead character because of the fear of reduced appeal? Wanting a happier ending for a film because it might go over with mainstream audiences more? Editing something to make it easier to understand? Changing plot elements to not offend Muslims or Christians? This all already happens and has happened for ages.

Studios make the decision to pursue foreign gross to pump up their earnings. They are the ones making films to appeal to China to break into the market to make more money. China isn't forcing them to do it. China would actually be more than happy if the only successful films in the Chinese market are films from China. More money for them.
 
The bottom line is:

If we ignore censorship concerns since they are effecting mostly valueless popcorn Hollywood blockbusters, we head down a very dangerous road.

Appealing to a wider audience is fine, and expected. Censorship is what I have a problem with foremost, the protectionist policies being a somewhat distant second.

Movie Makers thus far have made movies to appeal to US Viewers (with cursory interludes into European considerations). These decisions were made because what's what the audience wanted, not what the government wanted.

If we are talking about Hollywood blockbusters, I don't think there's anything to censor. If we are talking about other films, they will not be released in China anyway.
 
Sorry to throw this back at you, but now I think -you- are making a really flawed argument here. Let's talk about what censorship actually is. Censorship is when something is suppressed because of rules from an authority. So when a filmmaker makes a movie, if the studio does a focus test and decides the audiences don't really like the ending and force the filmmaker to change it, that is censorship. It doesn't matter what the audience wants, the filmmaker is being censored by the authority the studio has over the film. That already happens all the time. It doesn't just affect blockbusters. By saying that appealing to a wider audience is fine and expected, you have already ignored censorship concerns and gone down the dangerous road. Before it has anything to do with China.

As long as studios control films, the censorship you fear is there. Not wanting to cast a person of color as a lead character because of the fear of reduced appeal? Wanting a happier ending for a film because it might go over with mainstream audiences more? Editing something to make it easier to understand? Changing plot elements to not offend Muslims or Christians? This all already happens and has happened for ages.

Studios make the decision to pursue foreign gross to pump up their earnings. They are the ones making films to appeal to China to break into the market to make more money. China isn't forcing them to do it. China would actually be more than happy if the only successful films in the Chinese market are films from China. More money for them.

*Nods head in approval* Duckroll with the comeback.
 
Sorry to throw this back at you, but now I think -you- are making a really flawed argument here. Let's talk about what censorship actually is. Censorship is when something is suppressed because of rules from an authority. So when a filmmaker makes a movie, if the studio does a focus test and decides the audiences don't really like the ending and force the filmmaker to change it, that is censorship. It doesn't matter what the audience wants, the filmmaker is being censored by the authority the studio has over the film. That already happens all the time. It doesn't just affect blockbusters. By saying that appealing to a wider audience is fine and expected, you have already ignored censorship concerns and gone down the dangerous road. Before it has anything to do with China.

As long as studios control films, the censorship you fear is there. Not wanting to cast a person of color as a lead character because of the fear of reduced appeal? Wanting a happier ending for a film because it might go over with mainstream audiences more? Editing something to make it easier to understand? Changing plot elements to not offend Muslims or Christians? This all already happens and has happened for ages.

Studios make the decision to pursue foreign gross to pump up their earnings. They are the ones making films to appeal to China to break into the market to make more money. China isn't forcing them to do it. China would actually be more than happy if the only successful films in the Chinese market are films from China. More money for them.

#whataboutism

Just kidding. I can't believe this has to be spelled out to people. Movies have been cutting for content and rating for years. Look how few movies dare to be R rated these days? Do we blame China for Robocop remake getting a PG13 rating instead of R like the original? People have been getting up in arms over studio meddling with movies for a long time now. That itself is censorship.

I'm more concerned with awkward pandering. Like I said, the Martian's scene with China felt off. Yet the original novel, China was involved, but presented differently. I don't need to see the Chinese flag being unfolded at a space craft docking bay, but I also don't need a guy suffering from yellow fever drooling over the Chinese girl.
 
Afaik Chinese government recently banned all Korean entertainment just because South Korea made some military deal with U.S. That's how Chinese government treat foreign entertainment industry.
Pursuing big market sure is good thing but you always have to be careful too I guess.

Edit:
http://www.ibtimes.sg/china-bans-ko...ows-retaliation-against-thaad-deployment-4868

So it was not even a military treaty but South Korea's anti-missile against North Korean ballistic missile that somehow pissed Chinese government,
 
I also don't need a guy suffering from yellow fever drooling over the Chinese girl.

Ugh, I hate this shit. There was an article post and a thread on gaf about "flower vases", basically chinese actors being just dropped in to movies. The Independence Day Resurgence had this, where the comic relief character literally did the love at first sight crap and wanted to basically marry the chinese girl, who herself could have been replaced with a cardboard cutout and no one would notice. Even Chinese people notice and many think it's out of place, though it was from the article, maybe the majority think differently, sort of how a lot of people think Michael Bay Transformers movies are schlock but they make a billion dollars anyway.
 
Afaik Chinese government recently banned all Korean entertainment just because South Korea made some military deal with U.S. That's how Chinese government treat foreign entertainment industry.
Pursuing big market sure is good thing but you always have to be careful too I guess.

So what. What does it say about Americans and Hollywood that they are willing to sell their values, their beliefs and their artistic vision just so they don't piss off China? If the Soviet Union had a box office as large if not larger than the US, can you imagine what movies in the 70's or 80's would have been like?

There is a good point here. China isn't forcing anyone to do anything. They set their rules and you either follow them or you don't.
 
Afaik Chinese government recently banned all Korean entertainment just because South Korea made some military deal with U.S. That's how Chinese government treat foreign entertainment industry.
Pursuing big market sure is good thing but you always have to be careful too I guess.
Afaik you are another victim of fake news.
 
I'm more concerned with awkward pandering. Like I said, the Martian's scene with China felt off. Yet the original novel, China was involved, but presented differently. I don't need to see the Chinese flag being unfolded at a space craft docking bay, but I also don't need a guy suffering from yellow fever drooling over the Chinese girl.

I think the worst sort of pandering is the half assed ones where not only does it not fit, but it is clearly done with low effort just to tick a checkbox. I actually really liked that Transformers 4 did. Not so much the lame cameos and product placement (that's par for the course when it comes to TF anyway) but the way Bay really took the challenge of attracting a Chinese audience seriously and using Hong Kong and China as a major set piece at the end. I'm all for that honestly - location shooting in major cities in places outside of the US in blockbusters is appealing because it makes the settings feel more diverse. That's fun.
 
I mean you could say that American movie makers have learned that it's not only the US, especially when it comes to disaster movies with a world wide "problem" like Independence Day (the US found it out, but other countries like Israel, Egypt, Russia, France participated in beating the aliens), yet I find it hilarious how obvious it looks when they now suddenly put some Chinese character or product in their movies (see Independence Day 2, the Martian among others) just because.

It's just there to tell the Chinese audience "Look here's something you might know, buy tickets to our movies!!". It doesn't add any effect in the story besides this...
 
Capitalism, ho!


Not sure what to think of people who are miffed about Hollywood Blockbuster movie makers selling out to appeal to (appease?) another country without having the perspective that they have already "sold out". That it never was about the integrity of the craft or an artistic vision. Not with blockbuster movies, not for a single second. That shit never mattered.

It was always about the money. If you start criticising Hollywood blockbuster movies now, you just haven't been paying attention before.
 
Oh man, the amount of ignorant posts against China is staggering in here.

Its just movies guys, you think every foreign film that enters into China panders to its audience? Lol

We got some guy listing Ghostbusters using Chinese restaurant as a setting to pander to Chinese audiences, do you even know it was never even released in China? Hahaha...
 
I think the worst sort of pandering is the half assed ones where not only does it not fit, but it is clearly done with low effort just to tick a checkbox. I actually really liked that Transformers 4 did. Not so much the lame cameos and product placement (that's par for the course when it comes to TF anyway) but the way Bay really took the challenge of attracting a Chinese audience seriously and using Hong Kong and China as a major set piece at the end. I'm all for that honestly - location shooting in major cities in places outside of the US in blockbusters is appealing because it makes the settings feel more diverse. That's fun.

I agree on that. Using Hong Kong didn't feel anymore pandering than the second movie having the ending take place in Egypt. It's not well written, but it felt less forced. Certainly less forced than the weird product placement.
 
no need to "fix" my message because it's not broken. If you have something to say. Fucking say it. If nothing else, fuck you

Your reaction shows just how much the disconnect between people in the USA and those in the rest of the world are. If you can't see what is so wrong with decades of ethnocentric American cinema then you are blind.
 
China only allows THEATRICAL releases of around 30 western films a year, the reason being is that they want to promote their own movie industry. Any holiday in China there will typically not be any western films being shown.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-film-import-quota-increase-696708

That's not the same a banning a movie. A lot more western movies are freely available on Chinese VOD services, so they cant have been banned.

I'm well aware of how it works, and while yes, not making it into the yearly import allocation is not literally the same as a cut and dry ban, several films have been explicitly banned over the years. And realistically, in effect the difference between the two situations is already quite close to a semantic one anyway. Either way studios are going to want to alter movies to suit the whims of the Chinese government, giving China significant censorship powers over Hollywood and other major film markets. Pandering to audiences in major markets is one thing, but I don't like the idea of the PRC being able to dictate what I can and can't see, and yet here we are letting it happen, even if it's not exactly in total.

Your reaction shows just how much the disconnect between people in the USA and those in the rest of the world are. If you can't see what is so wrong with decades of ethnocentric American cinema then you are blind.

Again though, the United States government doesn't mandate this, which is the difference to poster is referring to.
 
As a Chinese I'm happy to see how Arrival handles the role of China: not that evil communist force that's gonna murder every Gog-believing men, nor a dear ally to America. It's what it is: an independent nation. It still takes the role of "villain" in the film, but it's not a comical villain.
Yeah I was almost dreading how they'd handle them but they showed a lot of class in the resolution.
Looove the flashforward with the General. Grounds the pivotal moment in humanity whilst continuing the theme of loss and its effects.
 
Everyone is happy about China bringing more diversity to film.

The same China that removed the black guy from the Force Awakens poster because the Chinese hate black people.

Yeah, this sounds really positive.
I don't think the government ordered that to happen. Why don't you blame Disney or their local distributor instead of a whole country for that?
 
Pandering to audiences in major markets is one thing, but I Again though, the United States government doesn't mandate this, which is the difference to poster is referring to.

The person I was replying to wrote about Hollywood bending over to accomodate the Chinese. Hollywood is not controlled by the Chinese government.
 
FTFY.

See how that works? You bring up shit that makes you look bad, and try to deflect hypocrisy with idiotic phrase like whataboutism. You don't realize how stupid you look when you bring this up.

Everyone knows all the problems with China. That's like pointing out water is wet. When you try to bring up problems that exists in your own country as reasons not to work with another country, you start to sound like a certain orange clown. You know, evil Chinese communists are taking our movies. Make Hollywood Great Again!
It's not quite the same problem though since it's government mandated.
I'd rather have them pander to audiences than governments.
 
With Doctor Strange and appealing to china by not mentioning Tibet is when I decided to not give more money to Hollywood if they kept doing shit like that. But since this only seems to affect blockbusters, I'm not missing anything worth it.
 
Huh?

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The original was loaded with Chinese imagery.

that's all japanese...at least the first 2 images. both charaters speak japanese to him.
 
Yeah, my point is there's really no way to prove those two were the result of giving a nod to China rather than just happening to be there. They're so trivial that nobody would bat an eye if they were having sushi instead or anything like that, and it seems more like confirmation bias at that point.

A Chinatown or Chinese food reference doesn't need to be directed at a Chinese audience. A lot of movies have had such references before China was a big market. Nobody is going to see a foreign movie because there was a scene in a Chinese restaurant or in a Chinatown. However, they may see a movie if their favorite Chinese star is in it and they are doing Mandarin press tours on Chinese talk shows and variety shows.

It's a pattern. I've noticed it in tons of movies in the last few years, starting with Transformers 4.

Another one I just watched:

Ghostbusters (2016). Half of the movie takes place in Chinatown. Their HQ is on top of a Chinese food restaurant. A repeating gag is the main character and her wonton soup.

Yea, all of these are nothing, but together it's a pattern I've seen happen again and again.
 
So (slightly) more Chinese propaganda instead of American? ok

Maybe it will mix up things a bit.

That said, China as an country has real fucking problems, but I think I can survive their movies.
 
Props to China for doing this, Hollywoods likes to demonise people and countries and have been doing it for decades. It's quite a unique situation China is in, they can tell them too fuck off and their own industry still grows. Or Hollywood grovels at their feet as they can't ignore them and adapts their anti-china propaganda into pro-china propaganda.

Bet Putin is jelly as fuck.
wtzgU.gif
 
It's a pattern. I've noticed it in tons of movies in the last few years, starting with Transformers 4.

Another one I just watched:

Ghostbusters (2016). Half of the movie takes place in Chinatown. Their HQ is on top of a Chinese food restaurant. A repeating gag is the main character and her wonton soup.

Yea, all of these are nothing, but together it's a pattern I've seen happen again and again.
My question is, if it's not annoying or detrimental to the movie, who cares?

It's bad in things like Transformers 4 or Iron Man 3, when the Chinese characters and product placement were just absurd, but things like Looper, where they changed some of the locations or Ghostbusters, those things didn't make those movies worse.
 
Is the cost of going to the theater about the same in China? I know in Canada it's ridiculous nowadays, especially if you want a small drink and small popcorn or other snack.
 
lol Blade Runner was made in the 80s when it looked like Japan was poised to be the next economic superpower. You can see it in all the cyberpunk stuff of the era. Why would China be the influence?
 
You only have to watch Black Rain to see where Blade Runner got its art direction.

On the other hand, Roy Batty was the original whitewashed cyborg...
Blade Runner's asian imagery is 95% Japanese, but Hong Kong was also a huge influence on the city design. Japanese cities are too clean and ordered.

70s/80s Hong Kong isn't really 'China' though, it (was) a non-communitst Chinese flavoured odd mix of things.
 
ridley scott made black rain years after blade runner.
I mean Osaka basically embodies the cyberpunk look. The neon, wet streets, fashion etc. Weren't there even shots taken from Akira?

Also Neuromancer, which released the same year as Blade Runner, starts in Tokyo and has a very similar feel.
 
I agree on that. Using Hong Kong didn't feel anymore pandering than the second movie having the ending take place in Egypt. It's not well written, but it felt less forced. Certainly less forced than the weird product placement.

Was the Dark Knight pandering? That sequencing HK was probably the best in the trilogy for me. The Victoria Harbour fight in Pacific Rim is awesome as well, it is a great skyline and a good location in general. Looking forward to seeing it again in GiTS.

Good movies still come out of China, they have sort of ruined mainstream HK cinema, but it made the independent scene interesting and it is always nice seeing ways filmmakers get things around the censors.
 
It's a pattern. I've noticed it in tons of movies in the last few years, starting with Transformers 4.

Another one I just watched:

Ghostbusters (2016). Half of the movie takes place in Chinatown. Their HQ is on top of a Chinese food restaurant. A repeating gag is the main character and her wonton soup.

Yea, all of these are nothing, but together it's a pattern I've seen happen again and again.

original.jpg


"This magnificent feast here represents the last of the petty cash"

They eat Chinese food in the first movie too, it's a callback.
 
It's a pattern. I've noticed it in tons of movies in the last few years, starting with Transformers 4.

Another one I just watched:

Ghostbusters (2016). Half of the movie takes place in Chinatown. Their HQ is on top of a Chinese food restaurant. A repeating gag is the main character and her wonton soup.

Yea, all of these are nothing, but together it's a pattern I've seen happen again and again.
Ghostbusters 2016 wasn't even released in China, so that was not pandering to a non-existent Chinese audience.
 
Blade Runner's asian imagery is 95% Japanese, but Hong Kong was also a huge influence on the city design. Japanese cities are too clean and ordered.

70s/80s Hong Kong isn't really 'China' though, it (was) a non-communitst Chinese flavoured odd mix of things.

Hong Kong's influence on cyberpunk is super interesting. Even Ghost in the Shell's design is influenced by Hong Kong, and that's a Japanese story set in Japan written and drawn by Japanese.
 
Blade Runner's asian imagery is 95% Japanese, but Hong Kong was also a huge influence on the city design. Japanese cities are too clean and ordered.

70s/80s Hong Kong isn't really 'China' though, it (was) a non-communitst Chinese flavoured odd mix of things.
Hong Kong city planning was fairly structured too (modern brit system), just somewhat constricted for space. It didn't have much as much neon as Japan back then iirc.

edit: nvm wikipedia corrected me:

Ridley Scott credits Edward Hopper's painting Nighthawks and the French science fiction comic magazine Métal Hurlant ("Heavy Metal"), to which the artist Moebius contributed, as stylistic mood sources. He also drew on the landscape of "Hong Kong on a very bad day" and the industrial landscape of his one-time home in northeast England. The visual style of the movie is influenced by the work of Futurist Italian architect, Antonio Sant'Elia.
 
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