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[Marty Chinn]

Because as I've said before, the only common denominator in all rapes is being in the presence of a rapist. Women of all sorts get raped. They get raped in every location you can think of, by every type of person imaginable, but mostly by people they already trust. The circumstances surrounding their rapes are as varied.

It doesn't help in the end. All it does is perpetuate the idea that women are to blame for their own rapes for not being responsible enough.

Can you imagine a male rape victim being questioned as to whether he really wanted it or not because he was looking quite fetching that evening?

If that's the case, then are you saying there's no advice I can tell her to reduce the chance? What can I say to her if anything at all? Because right now it sounds like people are going to rape, and there's nothing you can do to help yourself and telling my girl anything starts to imply to her that she may be at fault if it ever happens.

 

[Devolution]

Rape is a crime of opportunity. That's why it tends to happen between acquaintances more often than not. In order to absolve themselves of the act, the people in power, men deflected the reasons for rape onto women. You can blame patriarchy and Abrahamic religions for a real double down on this one too.

When you're "property" rather than a "person" crimes against your person aren't so much a person raping another person with rights but a citizen vandalizing another citizen's property. In order to maintain the status quo of treating women like shit, various methods of focusing the blame on them rather than citizens (men) came about. You rape my wife, I get to rape yours. Only whores get raped because they're out on the street. Men just can't help themselves, so what you're wearing, your previous sexual history and what you've been imbibing obviously negates any self-control on behalf of the rapist. With all this energy and shame imposed on women the people in power, again men, let's not white wash this, could easily and often avoid consequences for such a fucked up behavior.

If those damn vile feminists hadn't come about rape would still be some affront a man does to another man, rather than a crime against a person, a woman. Hell rape between spouses wasn't even considered "a thing" until the latter half of the 20th century. That meant up until very recently wives were merely sex receptacles for quite some time whether they wanted to be that night or not.

Our culture is still dealing with these skeletons in the closet. Women are still blamed but it's getting better. Yes Steubenville was awful but the amount of push back was progress. The idea that women are inviting this act onto their person is getting the middle finger more and more but here are things that don't help: the persistent idea that if I tell women how to live their lives, it will make them safer. It won't, please stop. Instead of patronizing us about how we can minimize the risk of assault why don't you do something instead? If you're in college be more aware of what's going on around you. Don't just let a guy throw a incapacitated girl over his shoulder up to the bedrooms at a house party. If you think a friend, colleague, whatever has toxic ideas about sex/consent call them out on it. If you're raising a child make sure they are educated, make sure they know that women and vulnerable people are not objects to merely get them off. There are so many ways to handle this problem other than "well maybe women should be more careful."

 

[Jarate]

What's the origin of that euphemism though? It ties back to "achievement". Even if you just view it as "getting some" its still treating sex as a thing to be acquired.


While I'm sure theres some female virgin shaming going on our culture really really tries to make "our little girls" remain pure for as long as possible. While also bombarding them with messages about how important sex is and how they should provide it. This contradiction produces a really weird dysfunctional dynamic for a lot of young women.

The origin of the euphemism is obvious, but even then, of course guys want to acquire sex. Sex is fucking awesome. It has the same implications of "I want to have sex." And really, the only reason people still say "scoring" is because Beavis and Butthead said it, and those characters were supposed to be awful human beings.

Also, I've talked to plenty of women who were heavily bullied for being a virgins into their late teens. My sister was harassed way worse then I ever got harassed.

 

[Prax]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like further clarification on a few things. How do we determine that it doesn't work? It's unlikely we're going to get any type of statistic that shows, well I would have been raped, but I did this, because the rape never happened and the encounter never happened. So how do we know that the steps that a person took didn't actually help prevent them from being in a bad situation? Not trying to put blame, but saying how to we judge that minimizing risk doesn't actually minimize risk when you completely avoided it from happening and probably never knew it would have? I just want a better understanding how we can definitively say that minimizing risk doesn't help at all.

So then if we don't think minimizing risk advice helps, what do I as a father tell my daughter as advice? Just tell her there are bad people out there and to be safe and that's it? Where do I learn about things I should tell her to help her if we don't want this conversation on a bigger scale? I'm not a female, so it certainly was not implanted on me. It seems to me that not talking about good advice to some degree can be bad for those who aren't sure what advice to give.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want a better understanding so I can make an informed decision on what I should or should not do to raise my little girl. God forbid I hope nothing ever happens, but I feel like I have to guide her somehow.

You tell her once or remind her of what she can do, but you also tell her to not tolerate sexism, not to condone or encourage pro-rape-culture stuff, and importantly, teach that to your sons, teach that to your friends, make sure they raise their sons and daughters right so consent and respect between genders is important, discourage others around you from treating rape as a thing that happens because women didn't xyz. It's a societal issue so it has to be approached from all fronts.

So it's just not about how you treat your daughter, but also tell and model to your wife and family and friends and coworkers your expectations of them as well. Think about it on a kind of level as how you would stamp out racism. You don't just tell your daughter what ways to best act and speak and dress to minimize people being huge racist jerks to her. You need to also make sure everyone around your family treats the issue properly and treats everyone with respect, you ask for and support changes to policies and lessons/programs that encourage and promote a healthy attitude, you ALSO model the behavior you want to see happening. Otherwise you risk just raising children in a poison environment no matter how well you individually instruct them.

And I know that's even harder to do and I am lazy too, but we all gotta try and chip in if we want to live in a better world (and I guess for the kids lol).

 

[User 100115]

I don't think the way a woman dresses has much effect on her likelihood of being raped. I would image a would-be rapist would be of a mindset to attack regardless of clothing. I don't know this for a fact, but it makes sense to me.

I would imagine, however, that the time and place where a woman is would have a significant effect on her likelihood of being raped. A rapist would be much less likely to act at noon in broad daylight than they would in the middle of the night in a relatively secluded area. Avoiding such areas at such times would probably significantly decrease the chance of a rape happening.

Of course a rape is never the woman's fault, but being cautious and aware of your surroundings is never a bad thing.

Again, the majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim trusts in a familiar location. So 'avoid dark alleys' isn't really useful advice.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I would imagine, however, that the time and place where a woman is would have a significant effect on her likelihood of being raped. A rapist would be much less likely to act at noon in broad daylight than they would in the middle of the night in a relatively secluded area. Avoiding such areas at such times would probably significantly decrease the chance of a rape happening.

This isn't useful either. The vast majority of rapes occur in situations the survivor thought was secure and with someone they knew. Only 4% of rape is both committed by strangers and in an area the survivor previously felt at risk (6% by a stranger in area the victim did not feel at risk, the remainder by people the survivor already knew).

 

[Devolution]

Again, the majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim trusts in a familiar location. So 'avoid dark alleys' isn't really useful advice.

It's not just useless it's entirely patronizing to the people who were raped by fathers, uncles, coworkers, boyfriends, stalkers, husbands which is the vast majority of victims.

Also rape happens at all kinds of hours, again we're talking of a rape of opportunity that has less to do with what she's wearing or that she's out but how he can capitalize on the situation. The easiest way to capitalize is to befriend women and rape them at your place or theirs.

 

[The Technomancer]

The origin of the euphemism is obvious, but even then, of course guys want to acquire sex. Sex is fucking awesome. It has the same implications of "I want to have sex." And really, the only reason people still say "scoring" is because Beavis and Butthead said it, and those characters were supposed to be awful human beings.

I and many others would argue that it really really doesn't. There's a dehumanizing element to treating sex as something to be "acquired" as opposed to something between two people.

 

[JesseEwiak]

It's not just useless it's entirely patronizing to the people who were raped by fathers, uncles, coworkers, boyfriends, stalkers, husbands which is the vast majority of victims.

Yup. The girl who I'm closest too who has admitted to being raped openly was wearing a sweater and jeans, the harlot, at a party with close friends and friends of friends.

 

[Mumei]

Rape is a crime of opportunity. That's why it tends to happen between acquaintances more often than not. In order to absolve themselves of the act, the people in power, men deflected the reasons for rape onto women. You can blame patriarchy and Abrahamic religions for a real double down on this one too.

When you're "property" rather than a "person" crimes against your person aren't so much a person raping another person with rights but a citizen vandalizing another citizen's property. In order to maintain the status quo of treating women like shit, various methods of focusing the blame on them rather than citizens (men) came about. You rape my wife, I get to rape yours. Only whores get raped because they're out on the street. Men just can't help themselves, so what you're wearing, your previous sexual history and what you've been imbibing obviously negates any self-control on behalf of the rapist. With all this energy and shame imposed on women the people in power, again men, let's not white wash this, could easily and often avoid consequences for such a fucked up behavior.

If those damn vile feminists hadn't come about rape would still be some affront a man does to another man, rather than a crime against a person, a woman. Hell rape between spouses wasn't even considered "a thing" until the latter half of the 20th century. That meant up until very recently wives were merely sex receptacles for quite some time whether they wanted to be that night or not.

Our culture is still dealing with these skeletons in the closet. Women are still blamed but it's getting better. Yes Steubenville was awful but the amount of push back was progress. The idea that women are inviting this act onto their person is getting the middle finger more and more but here are things that don't help: the persistent idea that if I tell women how to live their lives, it will make them safer. It won't, please stop. Instead of patronizing us about how we can minimize the risk of assault why don't you do something instead? If you're in college be more aware of what's going on around you. Don't just let a guy throw a incapacitated girl over his shoulder up to the bedrooms at a house party. If you think a friend, colleague, whatever has toxic ideas about sex/consent call them out on it. If you're raising a child make sure they are educated, make sure they know that women and vulnerable people are not objects to merely get them off. There are so many ways to handle this problem other than "well maybe women should be more careful."

Great post.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The way the people arguing for educating women on how to be safe keep talking about dark alleys shows just how much we should listen to those people about anything, ever. You're just making up scenarios in your head and arguing against them instead of paying attention to actual statistics or listening to actual victims.

 

[APF]

If that's the case, then are you saying there's no advice I can tell her to reduce the chance?

Sure: tell her to never have any relationship or acquaintance with a man, including yourself. That will reduce the chances of most assaults.

 

[Shinta]

If that's the case, then are you saying there's no advice I can tell her to reduce the chance? What can I say to her if anything at all? Because right now it sounds like people are going to rape, and there's nothing you can do to help yourself and telling my girl anything starts to imply to her that she may be at fault if it ever happens.

In reality, you should absolutely teach her to be very cautious of her surroundings, to not go to unfamiliar places by herself, to not lose control at parties or when experimenting with drugs and alcohol because the consequences can be much more severe than when teenage boys do it, to surround herself with reliable friends.

You could also enroll her in a self-defense class at a very young age and encourage her to stick with it, for good. Encouraging physical fitness definitely helps. You might also consider getting her a tazer or some other kind of weapon, and actually training her to use it.

As far as rape from people that she knows, the advice of not being alone is good advice.

I would teach all aspects of how to minimize assault along with other things you teach like how to minimize exposure to STDs, or birth control, or anything else. It's your job to teach her.

Of course, none of this is 100% fool proof, and its not her fault if she's ever attacked.

 

[Mononoke]

I'm surprised that the majority of rape is committed by people the victims know. From my understanding, it's often a crime of opportunity (so not pre-planned). When people rape, do they not like, see it as a problem after they've committed it? I just find it strange, because most crimes for instance, criminals want to put distance between the crime and themselves (or the person they are victimizing). I find it insane that rape seems to be the opposite, especially when it's such a horrific crime.

These people must not have any conscious or guilty whatsoever. Truly terrible.

EDIT: Nevermind, I had someone answer this for me in a PM. Basically rapist view their victim as objects. So it's not really rationale to try to apply logic to their crime. So disgusting.

 

[Jarate]

I and many others would argue that it really really doesn't. There's a dehumanizing element to treating sex as something to be "acquired" as opposed to something between two people.

And ive talked to plenty of women who treated sex in the same exact way. Ive heard women talk about scoring. Obviously, a woman is not nearly as dangerous, but it just shows how meaningless the word is.

And, yes, there may be a dehumanizing element, but if you're going to have a one night stand with someone, whether you're a male or a female, the other party is generally merely there to have sex with you. And the other party is most likely thinking the same thing.

Sex is not some sacred flower between 2 parties, it can be that, and that's at its best form, but sometimes it's just two people who want to fuck.

 

[Devolution]

I'm surprised that the majority of rape is committed by people the victims know. From my understanding, it's often a crime of opportunity (so not pre-planned). When people rape, do they not like, see it as a problem after they've committed it? I just find it strange, because most crimes for instance, criminals want to put distance between the crime and themselves (or the person they are victimizing). I find it insane that rape seems to be the opposite.

This again, is a problem of cultural expectations on both genders, a bad reading of "no" and the idea that women are "ripe for the taking." That's why feminism is so concerned with why and how women are represented. It's not because "prudes", it's because objectification is part of the problem. Now this isn't to say all objectification is bad, censor censor censor it. It's to make people aware of how consistently awful portrayals of women as things doesn't help the idea that we are people with our own needs and wants that should be respected. The other word is "entitlement" when you make young boys and men feel "entitled" to women/sex then you run into more problems of how they go about that.

 

[rokkerkory]

It shouldn't plain and simple

 

[Dark Octave]

The fact that "don't wear a short skirt" is seen as common sense shows that our culture has a huge fucking problem with its treatment of rape.

It's disgusting that women are supposed to be responsible for their own sexual safety. The only way to prevent rape is to breed less rapists.

This isn't 1492. Everyone knows it's wrong. Everyone knows that your freedom can be taken if you are convicted of it. Everyone knows that it hurts people. Same with stealing, killing and other physical violence. It's something in the world that people do like everything else and just like those other things, it will never stop. Bad people will die and more will be born in their place. And then the fact that most rape is done by people who are trusted means it will never be abolished or even slowed down from the rate at which it is today. It's a personal crime when it's someone who was trusted. No after school awareness program is going to stomp it out.

All I can tell my daughters is "don't put yourself in a bad situation" and hope they have sane, decent friends and people in their lives.

 

[kinggroin]

The way the people arguing for educating women on how to be safe keep talking about dark alleys shows just how much we should listen to those people about anything, ever. You're just making up scenarios in your head and arguing against them instead of paying attention to actual statistics or listening to actual victims.

And more posts like devolution's and less like yours would go a long way towards educating misguided individuals, like myself.

you have to understand that people with arguments like mine are coming into this believing every word they say. Even worse, they believe it helps the situation. simply pointing how moronic these opinions are only goes to validate what we believe are unrealistic defeatist attitudes ("at least we are doing something to help prevent it, right?"), Better to counter with statistics we were probably unaware of.

 

[Trey]

I and many others would argue that it really really doesn't. There's a dehumanizing element to treating sex as something to be "acquired" as opposed to something between two people.

Some people just want good conversation, some people just want good company, some people just want to get a nut off.

 

[Devolution]

The problem isn't acquisition of sex. Casual sex is great. It's the idea that women owe it to men that needs to be tackled.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Awesome.

More awesome.

These two posts are incredible. I feel like I'm going to live a bit longer from reading them. Like reverse cancer or something.

I'd really like to see someone try and pull the "I'm just giving common sense advice," card now and not look like an idiot.

 

[Mononoke]

This again, is a problem of cultural expectations on both genders, a bad reading of "no" and the idea that women are "ripe for the taking." That's why feminism is so concerned with why and how women are represented. It's not because "prudes", it's because objectification is part of the problem. Now this isn't to say all objectification is bad, censor censor censor it. It's to make people aware of how consistently awful portrayals of women as things doesn't help the idea that we are people with our own needs and wants that should be respected. The other word is "entitlement" when you make young boys and men feel "entitled" to women/sex then you run into more problems of how they go about that.

Basically, we need to change the culture/attitude that teaches young males that they are entitled to sex. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around it. That someone can feel entitled to it, and not see what they did as a crime. I guess that is also why I initially thought rape was more like other crimes where it's not always by someone the victim knows.

Then again, I guess violence/murder is also typically done by those the victim knows and trusts.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

And more posts like devolution's and less like yours would go a long way towards educating misguided individuals, like myself.

you have to understand that people with arguments like mine are coming into this believing every word they say. Even worse, they believe it helps the situation. simply pointing how moronic these opinions are only goes to validate what we believe are unrealistic defeatist attitudes ("at least we are doing something to help prevent it, right?"), Better to counter with statistics we were probably unaware of.

I'm not saying these people deserved to be insulted, but there are things they could have said differently to prevent me from saying it.

People like Azula are rare in these threads. It's actually almost always the exact same people on both sides. I understand what you're trying to say, but at the same time, it's hard to have sympathy and tact for people who are making up things in order to shift the blame on rape.

 

[Valhelm]

Higher. For serious sexual offences, approximately 90 percent knew the perpetrator[1]. The same report estimates there are roughly 25,000 rapes each year in the United Kingdom, of which 5,000 are reported to the police, of which 1,300 have a suspect identified, of which 1,000 are taken to court, of which 300 are successfully convicted. This is comparable with most Western countries.

Why is it so hard to convict a rapist? Is it because judges and juries tend to be male?

 

[The Technomancer]

The problem isn't acquisition of sex. Casual sex is great. It's the idea that women owe it to men that needs to be tackled.

I think we're getting at the same idea. I'm not talking about it being between two people in love, or even with significant emotional attachment. I'm talking about it being between two people as opposed to something that you try and acquire from women

 

[ABC]

Why is it so hard to convict a rapist?

Because it's hard to prove.

 

[Jarate]

Why is it so hard to convict a rapist? Is it because judges and juries tend to be male?

Evidence generally. Most females following the rape will clean themselves off repeatedly, and help remove evidence that could be used.

EEvidence is tough to get on cases like that, there's a possibility of male bias, and that it's most likely part of it, but the evidence needs to be there to convict

 

[Raydeen]

 

[MHWilliams]

If that's the case, then are you saying there's no advice I can tell her to reduce the chance? What can I say to her if anything at all? Because right now it sounds like people are going to rape, and there's nothing you can do to help yourself and telling my girl anything starts to imply to her that she may be at fault if it ever happens.

You can tell her many things if you want to mitigate the risk. She's your daughter. Many of those things have already been stated. But also be cognizant of the fact that many of those may not do a damn bit of good if someone decides to assault your daughter or another family member. Because the reality is it can happen anywhere and come from people you and her may trust. It's a scary reality, but there you go.

Risk mitigation is a personal discussion. that's something that happens between individuals. When the conversation begins to take on broader, wider implications, then risk mitigation is a useless talking point.

 

[Prax]

I'm surprised that the majority of rape is committed by people the victims know. From my understanding, it's often a crime of opportunity (so not pre-planned). When people rape, do they not like, see it as a problem after they've committed it? I just find it strange, because most crimes for instance, criminals want to put distance between the crime and themselves (or the person they are victimizing). I find it insane that rape seems to be the opposite, especially when it's such a horrific crime.

These people must not have any conscious or guilty whatsoever. Truly terrible.

It's probably because they don't actually feel it's a crime that they committed.
They scored and "won" the sex fair and square (in their minds).
Girl "led them on" or was "asking for it" or "it wasn't RAPE rape c'mon~" or "she owed him sex because.." or "it's okay because she's slutty" or "she's lucky anyone wanted to even have sex with her let alone risk jail for it lol"
And "oh yeah, rape is horrible but HE'S not a horrible person so it couldn't have possibly been rape, the temptress ruining his good name! -- And football scholarship!"

That's the kind of poison attitude in this world that allows for it to happen and protects perpetrators, and it's very prevalent, and it's NOT because the world is full of sociopaths that don't know right from wrong either. It's that this kind of behavior is implicitly condoned. The stats kind of speak for themselves. And the fact that many women buy into victim-blaming too is just another sad aspect of the whole thing.

 

[User 100115]

Because it's hard to prove.

Considering how often things like the victim's previous sexual history are brought as 'evidence' at a rape trial, how often rape kits are not even processed, etc, it's not hard to understand the low conviction rates.

 

[Valhelm]

All I can tell my daughters is "don't put yourself in a bad situation" and hope they have sane, decent friends and people in their lives.

That isn't bad advice, but women should never feel that their clothing or appearance has any effect on their personal safety. The cause of rape is rapists, people who have a desire to hurt others and think or know that they can get away with it.

 

[Jarate]

I think we're getting at the same idea. I'm not talking about it being between two people in love, or even with significant emotional attachment. I'm talking about it being between two people as opposed to something that you try and acquire from women

Like I said, women have talked about "scoring" with men, and such, and i've talked to plenty of women who treated multiple men like sex objects.

Obviously women aren't as dangerous as men, but both sexes want to fuck. That's why those euphemisms appear, and sometimes it can be challenging to fuck. So that's why they complain and say those euphemisms. If having sex was easy it would lose all the good parts attached to it.

 

[kinggroin]

I'm not saying these people deserved to be insulted, but there are things they could have said differently to prevent me from saying it.

People like Azula are rare in these threads. It's actually almost always the exact same people on both sides. I understand what you're trying to say, but at the same time, it's hard to have sympathy and tact for people who are making up things in order to shift the blame on rape.

Bro, I know being barraged by samey posts from ignorant individuals and seeing so many refuse to change their minds is absolutely exhausting, but isn't one Azula or Kinggroin worth it? Why even enter the debate on a topic as serious as this, from the angle you're coming from, if not to make things just THAT much better?

 

[InsaneZero]

I don't think the way a woman dresses has much effect on her likelihood of being raped. I would image a would-be rapist would be of a mindset to attack regardless of clothing. I don't know this for a fact, but it makes sense to me.

I would imagine, however, that the time and place where a woman is would have a significant effect on her likelihood of being raped. A rapist would be much less likely to act at noon in broad daylight than they would in the middle of the night in a relatively secluded area. Avoiding such areas at such times would probably significantly decrease the chance of a rape happening.

Of course a rape is never the woman's fault, but being cautious and aware of your surroundings is never a bad thing.

This post and similar posts made in this thread makes me think of advice from gamblers about how to win the lottery. A lot of "chances", "improving the likelihood", and the like but no sure way of making sure it doesn't happen. There's no reliable method to preventing rape because the greatest factor of rape is the rapist who is by definition out of the victim's control.

A rather simple analogy to point out the absurdity of this logic: If a bank decides to take the entirety of a client's balance to make a risky investment that fails, I doubt that people would be rushing to tell that the victim should've known better than to use that bank. We'd be calling for the head of the guy that wanted to get rich with someone else's money.

To me, it's irrelevant whether or not the victim was naked or looked like she just stepped off Mt. Everest. The event occurred because the rapist decided to make that choice, not the victim.

 

[Platy]

Look how HOT is that clevage !

This isn't 1492. Everyone knows it's wrong. Everyone knows that your freedom can be taken if you are convicted of it. Everyone knows that it hurts people. Same with stealing, killing and other physical violence. It's something in the world that people do like everything else and just like those other things, it will never stop. Bad people will die and more will be born in their place. And then the fact that most rape is done by people who are trusted means it will never be abolished or even slowed down from the rate at which it is today. It's a personal crime when it's someone who was trusted. No after school awareness program is going to stomp it out.

ACTUALY

Mumei probably has 5 better links than me, but there are studies showing that there are HUGE diferences between what people perceive as rape and "forcing someone to have sex"

 

[Devolution]

Basically, we need to change the culture/attitude that teaches young males that they are entitled to sex. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around it. That someone can feel entitled to it, and not see what they did as a crime. I guess that is also why I initially thought rape was more like other crimes where it's not always by someone the victim knows.

Then again, I guess violence/murder is also typically done by those the victim knows and trusts.

A lot of people define rape as a stranger from the bushes jumping a virgin dressed modestly and using incredible violence to get his way. When you have such narrow views of the act + this idea of entitlement you get the most common type: a friend, coworker, boyfriend doing it against her will because it's easy and there. It's not rape though, rape is more violent, rape is her screaming and beating him off of her. That's why terms like "forcible rape" are so toxic.

 

[Valhelm]

Men too. Not just women. At least get the argument right.

Yes, of course. Men obviously can also be victims of rape, and these male victims are basically invisible in our society, but when a man is raped he will not be told that his clothes had anything to with it.

 

[Dark Octave]

That isn't bad advice, but women should never feel that their clothing or appearance has any effect on their personal safety. The cause of rape is rapists, people who have a desire to hurt others and think or know that they can get away with it.

I agree.

 

[.GqueB.]

If that's the case, then are you saying there's no advice I can tell her to reduce the chance? What can I say to her if anything at all? Because right now it sounds like people are going to rape, and there's nothing you can do to help yourself and telling my girl anything starts to imply to her that she may be at fault if it ever happens.

I don't know. With the way people are talking, it sounds like you should tell her that at some point she's going to be raped and there isn't much she can do about it but she'll cross that bridge when she get's there.

Both arguments are flawed in my eyes. Yes, no amount of preparation will prevent rape so the advice can be considered "useless" but not saying anything at all is just as irresponsible. Even Batman had shark repellent. How often do you think he assumed he would be attacked by sharks? You gotta prepare for SOME thing.

You can't prepare for all things all of the time but you can prepare for some things some of the time which I think is kind of the point people are trying to make.

I mean you just had a father ask a VERY genuine question about what he should say to his daughter and not many people (who have been very active otherwise) haven't even bothered to answer it. I'm just finding it hard to grasp why giving advice is a "useless" thing. It's so defeatist and bizarre to me. You can give someone advice about anything and it won't help them in everything single scenario they come across but it's not going to NOT help either.

 

[Devolution]

I'm a daughter. The best thing you can tell her is that whatever happens it's not her fault and you will be there for her. I know of so many daughters who wouldn't dream of telling their dad what happened to them and that saddens me.

 

[Valhelm]

ACTUALY

Mumei probably has 5 better links than me, but there are studies showing that there are HUGE diferences between what people perceive as rape and "forcing someone to have sex"

This might be the biggest issue concerning rape. Most rapists don't know they're rapists. If a man has sex with his wife as she says "no", or if a frat boy sleeps with a young woman who's passed out, that is rape. But because there's no tears or physical violence involved, they don't see anything wrong with it.

There needs to be a major nation-wide movement to educate boys not to be rapists. I doubt most rapists would be rapists if they understood how deplorable their actions were.

 

[Shinta]

I'm a daughter. The best thing you can tell her is that whatever happens it's not her fault and you will be there for her. I know of so many daughters who wouldn't dream of telling their dad what happened to them and that saddens me.

An MMA class and a tazer couldn't hurt either. I don't know why this is taboo. My parents enrolled me in a Tae Kwon Do class when I was 6 so I could fight off bullies if I had to.

Would I be able to fight off anyone? No. But it was better than nothing, and it was good exercise and fun. At no point did I think that enrolling me in Tae Kwon Do was blaming me for potentially getting bullied, even at 6 years old.

 

[Brian Griffin]

A lot of people define rape as a stranger from the bushes jumping a virgin dressed modestly and using incredible violence to get his way. When you have such narrow views of the act + this idea of entitlement you get the most common type: a friend, coworker, boyfriend doing it against her will because it's easy and there. It's not rape though, rape is more violent, rape is her screaming and beating him off of her. That's why terms like "forcible rape" are so toxic.

Indeed. The sooner we as a society are as disgusted with a man not stopping after being told "no" as we are with a man savagely beating a woman and then having sex with her the better. Both of these scenarios are rape and both of them are extremely terrible violations of the woman's basic human rights.

 

[Wazzy]

If that's the case, then are you saying there's no advice I can tell her to reduce the chance? What can I say to her if anything at all? Because right now it sounds like people are going to rape, and there's nothing you can do to help yourself and telling my girl anything starts to imply to her that she may be at fault if it ever happens.

You just need to show her that you'll be there for her. You won't judge, blame or critcize her.

I don't have problems with raising your child with knowledge like "don't talk to strangers" but I think you need to be able to show that they can always come to you for anything.

The biggest focus on preventing rape should be education, not victim blaming.

 

[MHWilliams]

I mean you just had a father ask a VERY genuine question about what he should say to his daughter and not many people (who have been very active otherwise) have even bothered to answer it. I'm just finding it hard to grasp why giving advice is a "useless" thing. It's so defeatist and bizarre to me. You can give someone advice about anything and it won't help them in everything single scenario they come across but it's not going to NOT help either.

Again, giving advice on a personal level with someone you love is great. Rock out. You should probably also let your loved one know that you're available if something does happen and it's not their fault, despite the advice you gave them. That the ultimate act is on the rapist involved and you'll always love and support them. That you'll back them emotionally and legally with everything you have. Risk mitigation on a personal level is only one part of the discussion, open support is the other. Because only talking about risk mitigation makes people think it's their fault if they get assaulted. And that leads victims to not report rapes.

But when you step out into the world and the larger discussion and say these things, you are not being useful or helpful. Simple as that.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

An MMA class and a tazer couldn't hurt either. I don't know why this is taboo. My parents enrolled me in a Tae Kwon Do class when I was 6 so I could fight off bullies if I had to.

Would I be able to fight off anyone? No. But it was better than nothing, and it was good exercise and fun. At no point did I think that enrolling me in Tae Kwon Do was blaming me for potentially getting bullied, even at 6 years old.

The problem with this sort of thinking (as well as "dress less provocatively and avoid bad areas") is that we're just saying "rape that other person, not me." It does nothing for the actual problem.

 

[Devolution]

The problem with this sort of thinking (as well as "dress less provocatively and avoid bad areas") is that we're just saying "rape that other person, not me." It does nothing for the actual problem.

I'll say it here and now, because this is the easiest way to.

If Timedog wanted to rape me, he'd have no problem what so ever. He's 6'6 240, I'm 5'4 103 lbs. When you have this much disparity in size and he's your boyfriend, friend, coworker, you won't be able to do jack shit. And that's something I always have to contend with. I won't be able to fight my assailant off, I could give it a good effort but please. Not to mention my weapon or whatever isn't going to be in reach if I trust the person anyway.

 

[Shinta]

The problem with this sort of thinking (as well as "dress less provocatively and avoid bad areas") is that we're just saying "rape that other person, not me." It does nothing for the actual problem.

Are you really implying that teaching someone to defend themselves is setting someone else up to be victimized? I hope that's not what you're actually saying.

And as I said to faceless on the last page, no one is running from any broader discussions so raise any points that you want.