Yep, that type of extreme arrogance is what made the PS3 into such a failure in the eyes of the PS2. Sony has learned their lesson but for some reason Microsoft believed it couldn't happen to them or something.
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How could they eff it up this much?
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Yep, that type of extreme arrogance is what made the PS3 into such a failure in the eyes of the PS2. Sony has learned their lesson but for some reason Microsoft believed it couldn't happen to them or something.
MightyHedgehog
Member
It's surprising, impressive, and nearly unprecedented how bungled their communication has been since debut, and how poorly vetted their initial plans were, but I'm not convinced that the perceived sentiment of internet forums and gaming press is enough to believe it's going to sink the ship. Certainly, they have seemingly done everything possible to evaporate their gains made against Sony, in terms of mindshare of the hardcore. MS will go hard to stay in the race as close to their direct competitor because they're not about to give up on the multi-billion dollar investment they have yet to officially launch. Early days just like every launch, so it naturally looks worse or better, depending on which side of the line you're perceived to be on, before people have final stuff to actually play and experience for themselves and then the hype and marketing spell will recede and we'll back to mundane reality again where we all wait for upcoming games. I hope for a serious level of competition between the consoles once they've found their stride, and I cannot see how it won't turn out much more evenly over time.
over 80% of current console owners/consumers don't care about any of the stuff that GAF goes nuts over.
TRUTHFACT
It will come down to what is fun for people, and lines of resolution have never equaled fun.
But hey, it's the internet, people over react, and every one is an expect.
TRUTHFACT
It will come down to what is fun for people, and lines of resolution have never equaled fun.
But hey, it's the internet, people over react, and every one is an expect.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
The exact same thing applies to Sony. Look at the PS3. I hope the One is at least a decent competitor for Sony if for no other reason than to keep Sony on their toes. All the great stuff about PS Plus is there because of the competition. I don't want to go back to totally one-sided market again because history shows it makes the leader complacent and gamers lose.
Runaway corporate culture fucked it up, Ive outlined my idea before. But overall the battle between the two of them is always reactive. If they are doing badly, and they have the cash available, they will spend it to close the gap. It is expensive, this sort of endemic fuckuppery, it's just adding to the bill they will have to eventually pay - in terms of exclusives and advertising - to try to catch up with their main competitor. But it will happen for a while, I think. Long term though, the XBox division is toast.
dragonbane
Member
I still believe!Sabotage.
They had a vision and good leadership for the 360...before it was all tossed away to chase the casuals that didn't give two fucks.
Impeccable
Member
If social media has shown us anything in the past couple of years is that casuals will find out about these "issues only GAF cares about" and word travels at the speed of light.
Cheaper, better looking AND everyone is talking about it. Sorry, it isn't limited to hardcore circles anymore. You also can't manipulate like companies have done in the past. Sony is embracing that fact and Microsoft is stuck in 1999 with their PR.
Cheaper, better looking AND everyone is talking about it. Sorry, it isn't limited to hardcore circles anymore. You also can't manipulate like companies have done in the past. Sony is embracing that fact and Microsoft is stuck in 1999 with their PR.
Quixz
Member
Could still have delivered a good system!
Lé Blade Runner
Member
The tables have turned. As simple as that. Xbox 360 was the major player for some years after the PS3 launched, Sony learned from their mistakes ( slowly but surely ), and returned to form nearing the end of this generation. Now Sony is the stronger player by far - PS+, for example, is a service I deem as a love-letter to gamers. Very good value and it just makes you happy to own a PlayStation 3.
PS4 is cheaper, no-bullshit machine with better specs. PS+ continues to thrive. UI is still clean and nice, unlike what the Xbox Metro-freakshow has become.
PS4 is cheaper, no-bullshit machine with better specs. PS+ continues to thrive. UI is still clean and nice, unlike what the Xbox Metro-freakshow has become.
TheRealTalker
Banned
Lol why didn't I put the two together
KennyLinder
Member
Saturn too (forgetting the Mk 1.)
MS aren't really *that* good a company when it comes to products. They're a very aggressive company in terms of marketing & pushing for market share/dominance (and have the court judgements and fines over NetScape to prove it) but they've rarely if ever innovated and been successful at it, and really until XP and then later W7 they were getting away with pretty shoddy products on the desktop (which is where the real money is) that everyone buys, mainly because switching to Linux isn't on the horizon for most home users and, for front end at least, corporate IT product purchasers.
Think about the nightmare of migrating off Windows and into Linux/OpenOffice and other open source stuff would be for a corp with 10,000 users? Ghastly.
What they've run into here is a market where they don't have that product inertia and that doesn't respond in the same way - although consoles aren't quite FMCG it is a market where you can majorly fuck it up moving between generations of product.
Think about the nightmare of migrating off Windows and into Linux/OpenOffice and other open source stuff would be for a corp with 10,000 users? Ghastly.
What they've run into here is a market where they don't have that product inertia and that doesn't respond in the same way - although consoles aren't quite FMCG it is a market where you can majorly fuck it up moving between generations of product.
My favorite daytime hobby is pulling statistics out of my ass and marginalizing other people's thoughts.
TRUTHFACT: People will pay $100 less and still have fun...and here's the kicker - with more lines of resolution!
staup
This is not, and has never been, true
That's not how publicly traded companies work
it is arguably the reverse. Xbox division may have been under pressure from the overall company to start making decent revenue, which pushed them prematurely into a big living room play which they weren't ready for.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Atari ran into the problem with the 5200, but the 7600 was pretty damn good.
The difference with the One is, is that it comes in a time where gaming is at an all time high and social media/forums/internet always finds the info, critiques it and so on.
When both platforms are <= $300 then sure, it may not matter, but I think you are forgetting that people that buy consoles in the first year are mostly enthusiasts. They know about this stuff, or have heard it from a friend that's a GAFer. When you throw in the PS4 is $100 cheaper that's mighty tempting.
Can't wait to see sales for both platforms at any rate.
Short-sightedness 101
The enthusiast crowd sets the course, they decide what the broader narrative will be. "Soft-core" consumers eventually did care when the PS3 was generally deemed the weaker console for multiplatform games. The same will likely happen again, only with MS in the losing position.
What I don't understand is where all this unearned arrogance came from? It's not like the 360 completely dominated the competition this Gen. The Wii sold the most. and the PS3, while having a rocky start, matched the 360 in terms of consoles sold. Why did MS think they had the clout to try to pull the stuff they tried to pull with the XB1?
At least with the PS3 you can see where Sony's arrogance came from. The PS2 was by far the dominate console, and Sony was truly King of the Mountain at the time. Sony earned the right to be as arrogance as they were back then. MS, not so much.
At least with the PS3 you can see where Sony's arrogance came from. The PS2 was by far the dominate console, and Sony was truly King of the Mountain at the time. Sony earned the right to be as arrogance as they were back then. MS, not so much.
This is it for me. The Xbox One was always, from the beginning, MS ultimate objective.
A multimedia platform to control the living room. Games were never their real focus. It's just how they got into the living room.
MS had some great videogame people that understood the market and what gamers wanted. But most if not all of those people are gone.
BlastProcessing
Member
And like the mighty Zeus, he fucks anything he can get his hands on.
wapplew
Member
Ya, never underestimate the power of modern age social network
Gucci Messiah
Banned
Because Microsoft dominated the American market..
Regardless of the wants of the original design team, MS corporate has always wanted this. That why it was green-lit to begin with.
If they aren't ready for a 'big living room play', that says more about incompetence then any sort of rushed initiative. That's been the point of brand since the beginning. MS just doesn't know what the fuck they're doing apparently (assuming they screw it up). Simply look at their handling of WebTV, Media Center, etc to get all the answers you need.
'Joe Gamer' sure as hell cares about saving $100 as well.
EatinOlives
Member
I love this justification. Gets thrown around by every fanbase as soon as their console of choice gets shortchanged in power.
Happened with Sony fans with the PS2, happened with Nintendo fans with the Wii and WiiU (not so much the latter, now they all love the very HD they dismissed just a few years ago), and now it's MS fans with the XB1.
The Wii was the only console in recent memory that wasn't almost exclusively driven in sales by gaming enthusiasts when it released. If you think the "average" consumer only looking to get their CoD fix is going to pay $500 for a new console on Day 1 enough to override the the backlash of the enthusiasts who do push early adoption in consoles you have another thing coming.
Hyperactivity
Banned
.Sabotage.
They really should have kept their online policies. Many people disagreed with them but at least they had a more unique direction. They should have gone with that and kept evolving the console space to more Steam-ish.
I still remember what a joke Steam was when it first launched. Everybody hated it. It's because Valve kept making it better is why it's what it is today.
I still remember what a joke Steam was when it first launched. Everybody hated it. It's because Valve kept making it better is why it's what it is today.
ANYTHING...and I mean ANYTHING is such a failure in the eye of the mighty PlayStation 2.
That 80% doesn't buy a console at launch.
Caayn
Member
I still hope that we see a similar option become available later on in this console cycle. Although I would've preferred it if they stayed true to their original policies.
njean777
Member
They made it better with competition something MS wouldn't have had to deal with if they kept it all digital. Also limiting where you could trade in games when the PS4 seemed to be just like it is now wouldn't have helped their cause. That would have been a huge selling point of the PS4 as well. We saw how the reaction was at E3.
The entire Xbox division and the entire Xbox project was a means to an end. This has been so since the beginning. Nothing has changed. Xbox was a litmus test, Xbox 360 was the foundation. Xbox One is meant to be real deal. They really dont give a shit about us. All of this is to get as much of their presence in the living room. It's not about the consoles, the games or the gamers. It's about beating Sony and Apple. It's about getting people hooked up and connected into paid services and eventually back into the Windows ecosystem. It's really that simple.
Xbox One is the transition into what MS has always wanted to do along. But they've gotten too ahead of themselves and way too greedy. The market doesn't want or simply isn't ready for their agenda to be implemented. People fought back. The recent lackluster PR is result of them trying to recover, alter messaging and hopefully make their plan a little more appealing.
Xbox One is the transition into what MS has always wanted to do along. But they've gotten too ahead of themselves and way too greedy. The market doesn't want or simply isn't ready for their agenda to be implemented. People fought back. The recent lackluster PR is result of them trying to recover, alter messaging and hopefully make their plan a little more appealing.
travisbickle
Member
It's not that bad, it's just a lowered specced games machine.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Yeah, i'm not to happy with this recurring talking point that fans are stupid, don't do any research, and will buy it just because that's what they bought last gen.
It's fairly insulting all around, and no time in console history can I think of that actually being true.
I mean hell, go back and look at early ps3 coverage, people were quite loud all around on game performance issues, price issues, dev issues, etc. Ditto for the ps2 back in the day as well.
businesssensegamer
Banned
70-100bn market cap? are you on drugs or dont know what or how to find the market cap.
COD resolution has not been confirmed, even sony president didnt confirm for ps4, he said wait for the dev to reveal it.
The generation has not even started yet and you are making assumptions...not based on facts, but based on personal opinion.
Get some facts, get some knowledge before you rant...or sound like a typical gamer with a non educated rant based on assumptions.
COD resolution has not been confirmed, even sony president didnt confirm for ps4, he said wait for the dev to reveal it.
The generation has not even started yet and you are making assumptions...not based on facts, but based on personal opinion.
Get some facts, get some knowledge before you rant...or sound like a typical gamer with a non educated rant based on assumptions.
Ol No Bones
Banned
The sad thing is that they have a lot of great things going for them. They should have simply had a gpu at parity or above the competition and I would have no doubt bought their console first but now I have serious doubt about the future graphical fidelity of the console even though most aspects of the console are more appealing to me personally. It's a damn shame to watch so many loyal fans question the vision even though they have loved the brand. I can't believe they bet so much on TV interactivity when people are all looking to lose the cable. A 350 dollar box without kinect is an instant buy.
Sad that they fail to realize that the gaming crowd is what will set the word of mouth out.
They thought they led the market, and that their competitors couldn't catch up.
Any time you believe you can do what you want and you are not in:
A. Banking
B Healthcare
C Government
You need to take a step back because you're probably about to step knee-deep in shit. Economics and public relations are unfair like that.
Any time you believe you can do what you want and you are not in:
A. Banking
B Healthcare
C Government
You need to take a step back because you're probably about to step knee-deep in shit. Economics and public relations are unfair like that.
EatinOlives
Member
Willful ignorance I suppose.
Like I said in the previous giant thread, I don't even know what their argument is supposed to prove. Let's assume they're completely correct and we're in the extreme minority. So, uh, hooray that Microsoft is catering to the uninformed-mass market? Why would they actively try to push this narrative? It looks worse on Microsoft.
IMO their vision changed since the Kinect. Prior to Kinect the XB360 seemed to be the ideal gaming system of this gen. At least in the states and the UK.
After Kinect they ditched their core audience and wanted to get that Wii money with their new accessory.
Because of Kinect I got a PS3 for my console gaming needs since MS basically gave up on new exclusives for their "hard core" audience.
Mix that with a bit of arrogance and stupid calls from the higher ups and boom...we have the Xbone.
After Kinect they ditched their core audience and wanted to get that Wii money with their new accessory.
Because of Kinect I got a PS3 for my console gaming needs since MS basically gave up on new exclusives for their "hard core" audience.
Mix that with a bit of arrogance and stupid calls from the higher ups and boom...we have the Xbone.
DragonGirl
Banned
It's worth noting that all of the online and various restrictions MS announced for the XB1, Sony wanted to do with the PS4. MS and most developers fully expected Sony to push the exact same scheme which is why MS ran with it out the gate. The big surprise was when Sony didn't. They were smart enough to wait and see what kind of reception MS would get, and when it turned into a shit storm, they were able to scrap their own plans and do an end run around MS. Sony is every bit the bastard that MS is, they just weren't the first ones to look like bastards this time around.
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