• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

How did League of Legends became so Popular.

antitrop said:
I think it's honestly just age. DOTA players tend to be older, because they've been with or around it since War3 came out 11 years ago. League of Legends just skews really young, all over the place, but really, really young. The vast majority is teenagers, skewing towards pre-teens, even. DOTA 2 tends to feel more around 20-somethings or even younger 30's, just an older and more mature community all around. I'm purely making this shit up based on personal experience, I don't have any sort of demographic numbers for LoL or DOTA 2, as if such a thing existed.

I think it's a pretty fair hypothesis, though.

You can just "feel" the way that teenagers talk when you're playing LoL, as it's the most social exposure I have to that group pretty much at any time. It just feels like high school, or sometimes even middle school. I'm so past that shit, it's embarrassing.
Click to expand...
You make some fair points but DOTA 2's community isn't full of saints. I agree that LoL's players might skew younger and DOTA's will skew older but the same bile will come from both communities. I can't tell you the number of friends I have that have been turned off by both communities attitudes towards new players. I'm just at a loss as to how either game continue to expand despite the attitude of communities.

I'm just basing this off personal experience as well. I prefer to play LoL with my friends over DOTA because I just don't want to go through the hassle of learning new champs/builds/lanes again.
 
Emitan said:
Denying is just Last Hitting your own creeps. Are you against Last Hits as well?

I'm totally new to this genre so maybe I'm missing something
Click to expand...
Nope, you're the one who gets it. He's the one that's missing something.

_Ph03n1x_ said:
You make some fair points but DOTA 2's community isn't full of saints. I agree that LoL's players might skew younger and DOTA's will skew older but the same bile will come from both communities. I can't tell you the number of friends I have that have been turned off by both communities attitudes towards new players. I'm just at a loss as to how either game continue to expand despite the attitude of communities.

I'm just basing this off personal experience as well. I prefer to play LoL with my friends over DOTA because I just don't want to go through the hassle of learning new champs/builds/lanes again.
Click to expand...
I didn't speak as much to DOTA because I haven't played much DOTA, 10 hours at most. Hundreds in LoL.
 
Emitan said:
Denying is just Last Hitting your own creeps. Are you against Last Hits as well?

I'm totally new to this genre so maybe I'm missing something
Click to expand...

Denying is an extra thing to do during the laning phase. Can be used to gain more control of the lane by holding back the creep line and denying the enemy XP. It's an extra layer of depth that some people might not want to be bothered with.
 
demidar said:
Denying is an extra thing to do during the laning phase. Can be used to gain more control of the lane by holding back the creep line and denying the enemy XP. It's an extra layer of depth that some people might not want to be bothered with.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the introduction of creep denial in the very first incarnation of DOTA in War3 a matter of the way the map editor works, that it wasn't possible to make "allied creeps", as per the limitations of the game engine? It worked, why fix what isn't broken. I don't know, I feel like I remember hearing something about that.
 
antitrop said:
I didn't speak as much to DOTA because I haven't played much DOTA, 10 hours at most. Hundreds in LoL.
Click to expand...

Same with me. LoL's community does get a little better the higher up in rank you go (which is why I continue to pour hours into it). When you get a decent team either by luck or by playing with friends, the game is a ton of fun.
 
antitrop said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the introduction of creep denial in the very first incarnation of DOTA in War3 a matter of the way the map editor works, that it wasn't possible to make "allied creeps", as per the limitations of the game engine? It worked, why fix what isn't broken. I don't know, I feel like I remember hearing something about that.
Click to expand...

Not attacking your allies isn't hard coded into that game. You can force your units to attack any unit regardless of alliance if you use the force attack command in basic WC3. Not to mention you can't attack your creeps in DOTA unless they are below 50% health, which leads me to believe it was coded to be that way in DOTA. Same thing with towers below 130 health.
 
demidar said:
Not attacking your allies isn't hard coded into that game. You can force your units to attack any unit regardless of alliance if you use the force attack command in basic WC3. Not to mention you can't attack your creeps in DOTA unless they are below 50% health, which leads me to believe it was coded to be that way in DOTA. Same thing with towers below 130 health.
Click to expand...
Ah, fair enough. Just some BS I heard then.
 
Used to play Dota at university - almost to the detriment of my degree - and got into LoL maybe a year ago. LoL's attraction isnt just the lack of a barrier to entry and the ease of learning to play many characters. It's not even the character progression as that hits a wall once you get all the runes and masteries you need. Those wouldn't have kept me playing otherwise i'd still be playing planetside 2 day and night right now.

One of the things that keeps me coming back are the new characters (even though many are clones with slight nuances) and finding odd yet still successful ways to play old ones. Suppose the turning point came when i was playing a standard AD character and got annihilated by a teemo who decided mid game to go jungling and build an anti-AD AP tank specifically to counter me - he was a pure AP teemo before that point. Till then both teams were basically trading the blows with no one gaining any specific advantage. Sure stuff like this have little chance of working in a highly competitive ranked match however the mere fact that it could be done had me thinking and now i play these weird hybrid builds often for fun and to catch players off guard.

Another thing that keeps players coming back is actually the progression wall. You hit it quite early on and from then forward you can focus not on the progression but the actual builds, tactics and customizations of characters. As opposed to, and i'll use PS2 as an example again since i've played it recently, where it would take you forever to build up the basic requirements, stats and customization for just one class even if you decide to pay. LoL have really hit that sweet spot in avoiding a "pay 2 win/be stronger" and more importantly a "pay to gain something purely because it takes a frustratingly long time earning it in game" scenario.

The reasons above are some, IMO, that really keep players coming back since it's what has kept me coming back. I want to play the game, preferably all of it or as much as possible on equal footing with everybody - and for free. With LoL i actually got that after just a month or 2

In essence LoL is not looking to pull in players from other moba's but rather players from other genres who wouldn't necessarily be interested in moba's normally. That's what i've seen happen at least
 
Toasters can play LOL at 60fps. Unemployment gives you lots of free time and anger. Massive recession so lots of unemployed people.

The fact that MOBAs play like ten people hanging off a speeding freight train helps too.
 
_Ph03n1x_ said:
You make some fair points but DOTA 2's community isn't full of saints. I agree that LoL's players might skew younger and DOTA's will skew older but the same bile will come from both communities. I can't tell you the number of friends I have that have been turned off by both communities attitudes towards new players. I'm just at a loss as to how either game continue to expand despite the attitude of communities.

I'm just basing this off personal experience as well. I prefer to play LoL with my friends over DOTA because I just don't want to go through the hassle of learning new champs/builds/lanes again.
Click to expand...

LoL has over 70 million players. Just through sheer weight of numbers there is going to be more dickheads in that community than any other.
 
antitrop said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the introduction of creep denial in the very first incarnation of DOTA in War3 a matter of the way the map editor works, that it wasn't possible to make "allied creeps", as per the limitations of the game engine? It worked, why fix what isn't broken. I don't know, I feel like I remember hearing something about that.
Click to expand...

Lots of stuff in Dota is as it is just because of the WC3 engine. When I started playing Dota (5.84 or so) your enemy got no experience at all when you denied a creep. Likewise, they got no gold at all when you denied a tower. This was changed for obvious reasons; a less skilled enemy, or an enemy with a hero that is worse at lasthitting could still be level 1 when the other laner is level 4+.
Other things are the Strength/Agility/Int system, the orb effects, the lack of skill scaling (except a select few, like the Obsidian destroyer) and lack of cooldown reduction (Refresher orb is a cooldown reset, which was possible) really showed some problems with keeping Dota on the WC3 engine.
I like that LoL actually moves beyond the limitations of the WC3 engine. Essentially all skills scale with AD or AP, there are way more active skills, more skillshots rather than targeted skills, you can reduce the cooldown of your skills by itemizing, and you don't have to deal with what orb effects stack and do not stack.
 
thestopsign said:
That was actually one of the mechanic changes I enjoy the most changing over from DOTA into League. I played a lot of intelligence heroes in DOTA, and really they fall of late game pretty hard compared to the carries. Having late game scaling for intelligence (AP) champs in League just makes sense to me.

As far as item diversity goes, League stepped up its game a bit with the pre-season 3 patch, but it has a ways to go before it reaches DOTA in that aspect.



Sure, to some extent. I just didn't get that same sense of community when I tried out Heroes of Newarth and DOTA 2 (though I'm sure this one is developing fast in comparison) for a few months.
Click to expand...

You are looking at intelligence heroes wrong. They remain useful cause they scale up in utility. They build utility items, like auras or disables. A carry usually doesnt get these cause their inventory needs to be filled with damage or tanking items.
 
JesseZao said:
Which is one of my gripes with the game. Shake off the vestiges and make a fresh game. They/icefrog took the safe route.
Click to expand...

They took the safe route by continually updating and changing a game that is always in flux? No way!
 
Don't know why people say DOTA 2 is hard to get into. I started playing a week ago, as my first MOBA, and I think I do pretty well now.

I watched one of TotalBiscuits videos that got me interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSyJo7_BKC0

Then watched a couple more videos that clarified most things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbcmMFsmrqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akUNmFAzS98

demidar said:
Denying is an extra thing to do during the laning phase. Can be used to gain more control of the lane by holding back the creep line and denying the enemy XP. It's an extra layer of depth that some people might not want to be bothered with.
Click to expand...

The majority of players I've met don't bother.
 
antitrop said:
Who doesn't love Amumu, the sad mummy?

The colorful cast of likeable champs is one of the primary appeals of the game.
Click to expand...

Amumu is my favorite hero.

I liked LoL's aesthetic more when it had sad mummies, evil scarecrows and robots instead of Generic Anime Girls and Burly Manly Men all day erryday.
 
Archie said:
I liked LoL's aesthetic more when it had sad mummies, evil scarecrows and robots instead of Generic Anime Girls and Burly Manly Men all day erryday.
Click to expand...
Uh, what?
4kCwm.jpg
 
NBtoaster said:
Don't know why people say DOTA 2 is hard to get into. I started playing a week ago, as my first MOBA, and I think I do pretty well now.

I watched one of TotalBiscuits videos that got me interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSyJo7_BKC0

Then watched a couple more videos that clarified most things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbcmMFsmrqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akUNmFAzS98



The majority of players I've met don't bother.
Click to expand...

You're still in the lower brackets, everyone does it in my games.
 
People are really overstating denying. Lane pulling and jungle stacking are far more important. There is just more things to do in the laning stage, not to mention dota doesnt have all the things LoL has to discourage ganking and diving.
 
Woo-Fu said:
I don't understand why people think LoL is so much simpler than DOTA2. The only major difference is denial---something a lot of people in this thread seem really good at so not really sure why they have a problem with it in a game.

I'd rather watch DOTA2 than play LoL for some reason. When I do play I play DOTA2, as I prefer the art direction, gameplay, and business model of DOTA2 to that of LoL.

LoL is huge because for awhile it was the only free game of a genre that is popular worldwide. It is also a decent game on top of that.
Click to expand...

Not only is denial far from the only difference its far from the most important.
 
dimb said:
Uh, what?
4kCwm.jpg
Click to expand...

Generic Anime Girl
Generic Anime Girl
Burly Manly Man
Generic Anime Girl (that turns into a spider!)
Bug...thing (Thumbs up)
Generic Anime Girl
Burly Manly (Wolf) Man

The early days of League had a more whimsical aesthetic even if the splash art and in game models were sub par. Nowadays it seems like they're going after the 'boobs and badass' market.
 
Archie said:
The early days of League had a more whimsical aesthetic even if the splash art and in game models were sub par. Nowadays it seems like they're going after the 'boobs and badass' market.
Click to expand...
I don't really see the design of the newer stuff as being "generic" except for Zed, but I wouldn't consider him "burly" in any sense as an assassin.

I think you are applying a rose-tinted view to early League stuff. Most of it is just a rip off of other stuff, or incredibly plain. Garen? Sivir? Tryndamere? Evelynn? Mordekaiser? Ugh.
 
because of bw

simple match

bw made e sports

lol is esports
 
I think it's great that the champions being released are more and more creative. Just a guess, but I'd say it was in response to Dota 2's existence that spurred on this extra effort.
 
Yoshichan said:
because of bw

simple match

bw made e sports

lol is esports
Click to expand...
Only a tiny fraction of the player base follows esports at all. The viewer numbers on stream are merely the fallout of the incredibly huge player number.

So sure, LoL streams pull at least 5x the numbers of viewers against SC2 but from what relative player base?
 
dimb said:
I don't really see the design of the newer stuff as being "generic" except for Zed, but I wouldn't consider him "burly" in any sense as an assassin.

I think you are applying a rose-tinted view to early League stuff. Most of it is just a rip off of other stuff, or incredibly plain. Garen? Sivir? Tryndamere? Evelynn? Mordekaiser? Ugh.
Click to expand...

I disagree, but I respect your opinion.
 
LoL is succesful because the people in charge at Riot seem to be quite competent.

They created an accessible game, made it free to play, made it deep, scrapped shitty mechanics and paying to play does not give a player an advantage over those who choose to not pay.

Saying it was there at the right time is bullshit. What about HoN or that other PC MOBA that nobody plays? Riot were smart about their approach and thats why they succeeded.

The opportunity was there for everyone, Riot was the only one who put in the effort.
 
HK-47 said:
Not only is denial far from the only difference its far from the most important.
Click to expand...

Yeah denial is honestly not that relevant in the majority of games, check denial stats for most pub games and I doubt more than one player will have 10+.

The main difference between games is that combat in Dota is high stakes, high risk/high reward. "Poking" pretty much doesnt exist, and all abilities have high impact. In LoL there's a lot more atrition and looking for openings and it's almost always better to just farm your lane and look for opportunity kills than to roam and gank.
 
You guys are downplaying denying. When I was playing Dota1, I laned against this pro who was able to last hit and deny every single creep. Shit was ridiculous. He was easily up in gold, items, and exp.
 
It's hard not to consider LoL as slightly pay to win. A non paying player has to choose between expanding his roster or improving his stats. A paying player doesn't
 
Fivefold said:
Yeah denial is honestly not that relevant in the majority of games, check denial stats for most pub games and I doubt more than one player will have 10+.

The main difference between games is that combat in Dota is high stakes, high risk/high reward. "Poking" pretty much doesnt exist, and all abilities have high impact. In LoL there's a lot more atrition and looking for openings and it's almost always better to just farm your lane and look for opportunity kills than to roam and gank.
Click to expand...

poking is what makes lol so damn fun. the metas are layered so deep i get a boner thinking about them.
 
y2dvd said:
You guys are downplaying denying. When I was playing Dota1, I laned against this pro who was able to last hit and deny every single creep. Shit was ridiculous. He was easily up in gold, items, and exp.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Denying is a tool in Dota. The argument that it may not be used frequently in pubs is a week one. The tool is there for those that use it, and it shows the difference between those that play casually and those that dedicate time to master the game.

I presume that there's meta game in LoL and for those that use those tools it must be fantastic. But, saying that LoL doesn't have denying because is useless is ridiculous. It was a design decision and I believe that it has nothing to do with the value of denying.
 
I've only played around 60 games of Dota 2 but most players attempt to last hit. Most (including myself) are terrible at it but people understand the importance.
 
HK-47 said:
Not only is denial far from the only difference its far from the most important.
Click to expand...

It is the only major gameplay difference. The onus is upon you to list other ones and explain why you feel they are major.

I played both games the same way, just in one I attempted to deny when possible.

Procarbine said:
Denial is a minor difference, I agree with Artanisix. For me the huge difference is the impotence of spells early in the game and the lack of teleport scrolls, meaning you need to walk everywhere unless you burn a summoner spell on teleport and still have a massive CD on it. ICK. That and the hero pool being paid/ground, fuck that.
Click to expand...

Spell power and teleport scrolls are just balance issues, I don't see either system adding or removing significant complexity. I don't like Riot's business model either but I don't think the business model has any bearing on a comparison of the mechanics of gameplay. In Riot's defense they weren't sitting on top of the mountain of money Valve has so they needed to monetize pretty much from day one. They also didn't have Valve's proof via TF2 that they could make all they needed solely off of cosmetics.

I've played both, dota2 is the better game, but that said whatever increased complexity---and I'm tired of quibbling about how much/little there is---there is in dota2 can almost entirely be ignored at low levels of play. People who don't want to worry about denial don't have to until they get much, much better at the game, or they can pick roles where denial is less of a factor. No need for lol players to be intimidated by dota2.

LoL fans need to stop acting like dota2 is painfully complex(in comparison) and dota fans need to stop acting like LoL is a piece of shit. The exaggerations aren't getting anybody anywhere. As far as community goes you'll find plenty of assholes who should be permanently muted in any community with more than ~50 people, be it halo, lol, dota, or any other online game.
 
Woo-Fu said:
It is the only major gameplay difference. The onus is upon you to list other ones and explain why you feel they are major.

I played both games the same way, just in one I attempted to deny when possible.
Click to expand...
Higher Skill Damage + Higher Costs: Punishes mistakes/carelessness/wastefulness, resource management early game is paramount
Multiple Unit Control: Increased design space, high APM necessary for certain heroes, courier micro necessary for everyone
Destructible Trees: Fluid battlefield which requires more spacial awareness
Gold Loss Upon Death: Ganking becomes far more viable and powerful when you can actually reverse the farm of a target
Items with Significant Actives: Creates distinct phases in the game, where a team's available strategies must change depending on the item progression of both teams
Dust: Tool for breaking passive turtle strategies
Teleporation Scroll: Requires greater communication and coordination between players because every lane is more accessible
Creep Stacking: Allows supports to create a repository of farm for their carries, singlehandedly responsible for the viability of cleave carries like Sven and Luna
Lane Fluidity: 2-1-2, 3-1-1, 1-2-2, 1-1-2-Jungle, are all viable lane compositions, each of which are better in some situations than others
 
LoL is literally marijuana, casual drug that people usually start using in their teen years and outgrow it eventually. It's a good, harmless high that worst case scenario will just make you fatter. Can be a gateway drug into hard MOBAs

Dota is heroin, the highs are extremely high and the lows are soul crushing. It can make you feel like a god and just hours later make you want to kill yourself. You won't outgrow it because you're an addict and will die from an OD.
 
The majority of my friends admit that LoL is easier to play DOTA2 which is why they stick to LoL.

That, and the rest of the world is playing it.

I think skill spamming makes new players feel like they're actually doing something in the game. Last hitting and denying is way less flashy and takes timing and practice to do.

Also, since you don't really have resources that you expend (no town portal items and skills cost so little), you don't really have to think about that and you can just focus on the gameplay. The exception is the summoner spells which have a massive cooldown.

My point is, in DOTA if you spend your resources poorly (ie. waste your stuns on creeps, which many beginners do) you get ganked and die guaranteed. In LoL you still get ganked but you have your skills to use so you don't feel completely helpless.

It's kind of like Yugioh and Magic. One game you just spam shit and play all the cards in your hand (yugioh) and the other takes resource management (magic) and as a result of that, is a more complex game.
 
Riot is a really great company, too. For example, if they change a price on an item, they will refund the difference in cost to anyone who bought that item within the last two weeks. That's just one example of the cool stuff they do.
 
narcosis219 said:
It's kind of like Yugioh and Magic. One game you just spam shit and play all the cards in your hand (yugioh) and the other takes resource management (magic) and as a result of that, is a more complex game.
Click to expand...
Surprisingly apt comparison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

When did backtracking became a bad thing?
32
388
L*][*N*K replied
What’s you opinion on League of Legends
9
243
Fbh replied
Riot is working on a refreshed version of League of Legends (codenamed League Next) slated for release in 2027
News 
5
273
HRK69 replied
How is Streets of Rage 4 so good GAF?
2
74
583
Hudo replied
How Capcom Did The IMPOSSIBLE
Opinion Trailer Game Dev  2
74
273
NeverYouMind replied
Top Bottom