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[Striker]

I wonder how some attitude era angles would go down today?

I mean take the higher power angle no doubt it would have been spoiled on the Internet and we would all complain how predictable it was

Anyway I still love it it's still real to me

I have said before and I still maintain this view, that the internet has ruined pro wrestling. All the pre-taped shows, the rumored angles, the rumors of who is getting a push, who is in the doghouse (though truthfully you can see who's in that now just by watching one show), or the rumors of who's jumping ship (but that's basically gone with ECW and WCW going under).

There's things like GAF where you can share a discussion over angles and everything, but you can see results of PPV's are they're happening, or you can watch the shows on a webstream at no charge. It's definitely hurt it more than it has helped.

WWF was made by the Attitude Era. Austin, Rock, Triple H, Taker, Angle, Foley, HBK....It was the golden age.

Now it's gone, and WWE is junk.

WWE now doesn't have the abundance of charisma many did in the AE or in the Hogan era. A lot of stories would flop because of that, but they might not even make it that far anyways, because the writing is so predictable and stagnant.

 

[Lunchbox]

hogan -> rock -> Cena -> miz

he was in mtv

 

[Anth0ny]

Shoot character. CM Punk is that guy. WWe is trying to create that star by use of social media, but so far Cena and Punk are the only guys with any traction.

They had their chance. That promo from 2011 and the MITB that followed is why I'm following wrestling again.

Punk could have been the new Austin. That promo could have been the new Austin 3:16 promo and Austin stunnering McMahon wrapped in one. In 2011, the world wasn't quite as crazy at the late 90s. Obviously you can't just beat up your boss. That's not even remotely believable anymore.

What's the next best thing? Going up to your boss and saying "FUCK YOU, FUCK THIS COMPANY, FUCK YOUR FAMILY AND I HOPE YOU DIE". That was basically the Punk promo in a nutshell.

They followed it up with a 5 star match and what was probably the most interesting angle since the Attitude Era. But then...

 

[jred2k]

I have said before and I still maintain this view, that the internet has ruined pro wrestling. All the pre-taped shows, the rumored angles, the rumors of who is getting a push, who is in the doghouse (though truthfully you can see who's in that now just by watching one show), or the rumors of who's jumping ship (but that's basically gone with ECW and WCW going under).

The "meta-heat", for lack of a better term, is damaging too, I think. Wrestlers don't really get booed or cheered based on their allegiance as much as for the quality of their performance. Maybe its just cause I'm older, but I'd never boo a guy for being an asshole, but I can't stand to see them if they're boring.

Looking at the current main storyline, I don't dislike Triple H because he pedigreed Daniel Bryan, I dislike him because I know he was responsible for decisions that kept the belt far away from Daniel Bryan. Compare that to the Attitude Era where I disliked Vince because he was a prick on camera and was in the way of Stone Cold. A lot of this probably has to do with booking and Vince actually letting himself look weak, too.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

There were but there was tons of misinformation as well.

Yes, those modern dirtsheets and their quality facts, LOL.

 

[jmdajr]

The "meta-heat", for lack of a better term, is damaging too, I think. Wrestlers don't really get booed or cheered based on their allegiance as much as for the quality of their performance. Maybe its just cause I'm older, but I'd never boo a guy for being an asshole, but I can't stand to see them if they're boring.

Looking at the current main storyline, I don't dislike Triple H because he pedigreed Daniel Bryan, I dislike him because I know he was responsible for decisions that kept the belt far away from Daniel Bryan. Compare that to the Attitude Era where I disliked Vince because he was a prick on camera and was in the way of Stone Cold. A lot of this probably has to do with booking and Vince actually letting himself look weak, too.

Yup not of fan of spoilers. I also like to be in the dark. I don't really like to know when so and so actor is being a dick in real life and what not, but hell..almost impossible in today's age.

 

[Lunchbox]

Yes, those modern dirtsheets and their quality facts, LOL.

shut up

Meltzer is always in the know

 

[Mengetsu]

They had their chance. That promo from 2011 and the MITB that followed is why I'm following wrestling again.

Punk could have been the new Austin. That promo could have been the new Austin 3:16 promo and Austin stunnering McMahon wrapped in one. In 2011, the world wasn't quite as crazy at the late 90s. Obviously you can't just beat up your boss. That's not even remotely believable anymore.

What's the next best thing? Going up to your boss and saying "FUCK YOU, FUCK THIS COMPANY, FUCK YOUR FAMILY AND I HOPE YOU DIE". That was basically the Punk promo in a nutshell.

They followed it up with a 5 star match and what was probably the most interesting angle since the Attitude Era. But then...

This is how I got back into WWE as well. Punks shoot was all over ESPN and different outlets. Made me want to watch again because it wasn't Cena. Granted the only thing I miss since I started watching again is my crimson (Blood) in matches that I feel that would give the story and the rivalry between the characters fighting that extra meaning. Also I hate that creative in the company is well...

 

[Shadowlink]

shut up

Meltzer is always in the know

What are the differences between Meltzer the poster, and Meltzer the podcaster?

 

[FallingEdge]

What are the differences between Meltzer the poster, and Meltzer the podcaster?

ones a troll

 

[Perspicacity]

The other one posted on Neogaf

 

[Shadowlink]

ones a troll

And the poster?

Edit: Damn it Perspicacity!

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Wrestling's appeal has always been archetypal. We know from boxing and UFC just how unrealistic pro wrestling actually IS, but I maintain that, when done well, it's a billion times more entertaining than ultimate fighting because it cuts closer to how fights and battles live in the imagination. That's one of the reasons McMahon is so high on muscular guys - they can bring that nigh-mythological air, almost like you're watching Greek gods going toe-to-toe.

Bruno Sammartino was the American Dream made real, a good-looking, burly Italian man who could appeal to a blue collar audience of first- and second-generation immigrants. Hulk Hogan was the Moral Majority's Ubermensch, a guy who never lost because he "took his vitamins and said his prayers" and who fought for American supremacy against its "enemies". Ric Flair was the personification of narcissism, a bad guy who cheated his way to the top and hedonistically lived it up. Dusty Rhodes was kind of like a more universal Sammartino - a burly guy with working-class appeal. Steve Austin had that 90s "fuck everything" nihilism down pat and really captured that universal desire to punch a bad boss in the face. The Rock was a catchphrase-spouting, fast-talking action hero with movie star good looks.

John Cena has appeal to kids - a guy who never gives up against bullies and always overcomes "the odds" while still having enough of that TeeNick style self-aware smirking-and-winking poopy-pants humor to be "entertaining". But while he'll always have appeal to the merchandise-desiring young kids, his gimmick has been played out SO many times that I have to wonder how much longer he can reliably draw.

 

[DominoKid]

Stone Cold and The Rock. they've coasted since.

 

[knkng]

Holy shit, this legitimately got me laughing hard.

I don't know why wrestling is successful, but I love it because it's the purest form of entertainment. It's simple and straightforward, but damned if I don't have fun watching it.

 

[Perspicacity]

Holy shit, this legitimately got me laughing hard.

You missed an "and" after laughing.

 

[sleepykyo]

Showing Miley how it is done.

It is an entretaining soap opera for males. And Vince has always been fairly progressive. eg. Taking advantage of tv/emerging tech, adjusting from PG to R back to PG as the public changes, capitalizing on changing demographics (the increasing numbers of female audience).

 

[ZeroRay]

Posted yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSe1maLmLUI

Also, wrestling's been very popular since the 1920's. It's gone through various booms and recessions. The two most memorable booms being the 80's with Hulkamania and the Attitude Era - both those eras basically encapsulated the zeitgeist of those times.

 

[knkng]

You missed an "and" after laughing.

I figured that was a given

 

[Black Door]

Vince is a shrewd, underhanded son of a bitch, and it helps that all other rival promoters are either fucking idiots or running programs too small to put a chink in his armor

 

[Rentahamster]

XFL was not a joke!

He hate me!

 

[Damaniel]

Idk, WWE is popular all over, not just Red States.

Having grown up in a family with a wrestling-obsessed dad (he actually ran his own wrestling promotion for a year, and continues to participate and announce in local pro wrestling promotions to this day), I've met a lot of wrestling fans. I've actually met a lot of wrestlers, including WWE superstars (though mostly from the WWF era).

I may live in a blue state, but the wrestling fans I've met largely have the red state mentality. Heavily conservative with a dislike of government, and especially big fans of the pro-'Murica storylines. I don't think I've ever met a wrestling fan who's anywhere left of center politically (though I'm sure they exist).

As for why the WWE is successful? It's a soap opera for men. People can try to justify it as an exhibition of raw talent (and yes, wrestling, even as a 'fake' sport, still requires lots of talent and skill), but they're watching it for the outlandish storylines and the characters - the same reason that daytime soaps were so popular with women.

 

[Black Door]

I may live in a blue state, but the wrestling fans I've met largely have the red state mentality. Heavily conservative with a dislike of government, and especially big fans of the pro-'Murica storylines. I don't think I've ever met a wrestling fan who's anywhere left of center politically (though I'm sure they exist).

A lot of that may have to do with wrestling blowing up during the 80s then becoming a bit of a joke in the attitude era/2000s...going from Hulk Hogan and Sgt. Slaughter beating up swarthy brown guys and telling people we should nuke Mongolia with a shit eating grin to guys breaking fabe on camera and losing belts 10 minutes after they get them, promotion hopping 10 times a year, etc. has an effect on viewers minds which eras they consider acceptable to say they like in public

 

[SporeCrawler]

For me it was the high skilled grapplers like chris jericho, chris benoit (i know), eddie guerrero or kurt angle. Loved watching those guys.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

I only just recently got into wrestling after having my family forbid me from watching it in my childhood, and honestly I don't even know why I like it, I just enjoy seeing stuff happen and I like the moves. The stories are dumb, but occasionally well written. The dialog is funny and kinda hype at times. Overall the whole thing is just plain fun.

Also, Naomi Knight is hot, so seeing attractive women slam and jam around on each other is alright.

 

[strobogo]

Having grown up in a family with a wrestling-obsessed dad (he actually ran his own wrestling promotion for a year, and continues to participate and announce in local pro wrestling promotions to this day), I've met a lot of wrestling fans. I've actually met a lot of wrestlers, including WWE superstars (though mostly from the WWF era).

I may live in a blue state, but the wrestling fans I've met largely have the red state mentality. Heavily conservative with a dislike of government, and especially big fans of the pro-'Murica storylines. I don't think I've ever met a wrestling fan who's anywhere left of center politically (though I'm sure they exist).

As for why the WWE is successful? It's a soap opera for men. People can try to justify it as an exhibition of raw talent (and yes, wrestling, even as a 'fake' sport, still requires lots of talent and skill), but they're watching it for the outlandish storylines and the characters - the same reason that daytime soaps were so popular with women.

If you were to go through Wrasslegaf threads, you'd see the vast, vast majority are blue state mentaility types. Especially our foreign dignitaries that make American liberals look like hardcore conservatives. I think what you were really getting at is that wrestling appeals to rednecks. It does, but it also appeals to people who can afford to drop $3K for Wrestlemania weekend.

 

[Htown]

They had their chance. That promo from 2011 and the MITB that followed is why I'm following wrestling again.

Punk could have been the new Austin. That promo could have been the new Austin 3:16 promo and Austin stunnering McMahon wrapped in one. In 2011, the world wasn't quite as crazy at the late 90s. Obviously you can't just beat up your boss. That's not even remotely believable anymore.

What's the next best thing? Going up to your boss and saying "FUCK YOU, FUCK THIS COMPANY, FUCK YOUR FAMILY AND I HOPE YOU DIE". That was basically the Punk promo in a nutshell.

They followed it up with a 5 star match and what was probably the most interesting angle since the Attitude Era. But then...

God HHH really ruins everything.

Did the same thing with Daniel Bryan.

Bryan was, a couple months ago, probably the most popular wrestler in the company, a good guy who was actually liked both by the casual fan and kids, as well as the internet.

So what happened? Naturally, the story shifted to be not about Daniel Bryan attempting to succeed despite not being the biggest, strongest, most muscular guy, but about Daniel Bryan vs HHH over what's "best for business", and now it's not even about THAT, but about Big Show vs HHH over what's "best for business".

The whole story was supposedly about how Bryan wasn't the stereotypical WWE champ, but instead of having him work hard and succeed anyway, they gave him the title for literally two minutes before it went to somebody else, then had him win it for one night and taken away because he "cheated", and now he's not even INVOLVED in the storyline he was the CENTER of?

 

[SporeCrawler]

I only just recently got into wrestling after having my family forbid me from watching it in my childhood, and honestly I don't even know why I like it, I just enjoy seeing stuff happen and I like the moves. The stories are dumb, but occasionally well written. The dialog is funny and kinda hype at times. Overall the whole thing is just plain fun.

Also, Naomi Knight is hot, so seeing attractive women slam and jam around on each other is alright.

Most of the times the stories are dumb as hell but there is that pccasional moment that is incredible (the end of wrestlemania XX...)

 

[Pavaloo]

They have bigger plans for Bryan

edit: about "red states" and wrestling fans: I live in Canada, which has a pretty large wrestling following. Don't think many of them have that "red state mentality" lol

 

[jmdajr]

I don't know any so-called rednecks in my circle of wrestling fans.

These days I think it's mostly nerds. It's not too far from liking videogames, comics and what not.

I forgot who Stone Cold interviewed, maybe Colt Cabana.

He said today wrestlers are yesterdays marks/nerd wrestling fans. We just want to see/put on a good show.

 

[strobogo]

Most of the times the stories are dumb as hell but there is that pccasional moment that is incredible (the end of wrestlemania XX...)

Those occasional moments are really what people who have been watching for 20 years watch for. There is usually at least one really cool thing to happen on any given show, and a few super awesome moments on the big PPVs. Or every now and then you'll get a crazy match that sucks you in like it did when you were a kid and get you all hyped for a few weeks.


Like this year. It had Dolph Ziggler's cash in, Daniel Bryan being a MONSTER from WM to Summerslamish, Bryan vs Cena, Brock vs Punk, Cesaro vs Bryan, Cesaro vs Sami Zayn on NXT

 

[Striker]

God HHH really ruins everything.

The whole story was supposedly about how Bryan wasn't the stereotypical WWE champ, but instead of having him work hard and succeed anyway, they gave him the title for literally two minutes before it went to somebody else, then had him win it for one night and taken away because he "cheated", and now he's not even INVOLVED in the storyline he was the CENTER of?

Now you have Daniel Bryan already being a 2x WWE champion and he didn't even hold it over 24 hours combined. Title reigns today are so awful.

And yeah, instead of 2011 Triple H vs Kevin Nash, it's now 2013 Triple H and Big Show.

vvv Just link to Shane vs. Kurt Angle matches

 

[Dark Ninja]

Vince Mcmahon Jr should get the credit he's willing to get dirty to get the product over even today

Shane Mcmahon was pretty nuts too. He should have taken the company over

 

[JesseEwiak]

Having grown up in a family with a wrestling-obsessed dad (he actually ran his own wrestling promotion for a year, and continues to participate and announce in local pro wrestling promotions to this day), I've met a lot of wrestling fans. I've actually met a lot of wrestlers, including WWE superstars (though mostly from the WWF era).

I may live in a blue state, but the wrestling fans I've met largely have the red state mentality. Heavily conservative with a dislike of government, and especially big fans of the pro-'Murica storylines. I don't think I've ever met a wrestling fan who's anywhere left of center politically (though I'm sure they exist).

As for why the WWE is successful? It's a soap opera for men. People can try to justify it as an exhibition of raw talent (and yes, wrestling, even as a 'fake' sport, still requires lots of talent and skill), but they're watching it for the outlandish storylines and the characters - the same reason that daytime soaps were so popular with women.

Actually, polling has shown that the WWE fans are actually to the left of the average American. Now, this is mostly due to the fact there are more African-American and Hispanic fans proportionally than there are A-A's and Hispanics in the nation, but there ya' go.

Shane was pretty nuts too. He should have taken the company over

According to everything I've read from Meltzer et al, Shane's creative ideas make Stephanie look like Sam Mushnick booking St. Louis in the 70's.

 

[Perspicacity]

Now you have Daniel Bryan already being a 2x WWE champion and he didn't even hold it over 24 hours combined. Title reigns today are so awful.

We're also still sort of coming off of 434 day reign from Punk...

That title was a hot potato through large portions of the Attitude Era.

 

[Razorskin]

Vince Mcmahon Jr should get the credit he's willing to get dirty to get the product over even today.

When did this happen?

 

[Rebel Leader]

I was WWF fan all the way to the Attitude Era, where I just stopped. But for being a ''fake'' sport, what McMahon has done to market and grow his product is outstanding. Yeah, the XFL was a joke, but the fact that they continue to sell out events, get new talent that succeeds to break into new mediums, and make tons of money via TV deals and PPV is a testament to his business savvy.

What's his secret sauce?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Vince Mcmahon Jr should get the credit he's willing to get dirty to get the product over even today

http://24.media.tumblr.com/d8d056cd65bc8be5cf9243b1bf8de18a/tumblr_mhejfo4eGR1r6ybcpo1_400.gif[/IM G]

[IMG]http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q260/co13r4/1349755980237.gif[/IM G]

Shane was pretty nuts too. He should have taken the company over

[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m67kalHCBF1r324lio1_400.gif[/IMG ]

[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img38/966/shanemisseselbowdrop.gif[/IMG ][/QUOTE]

He doesn't get enough credit
[url]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81zig_kurt-angle-suplexes-shane-mcmahon-i_sport[/url]

 

[SlipperySlope]

Not to derail, but I think the UFC's rise is far more out of this world. It went in and swept over the ruling overlord of fighting, Boxing. A previously unthinkable event.

 

[m3k]

When did Vince reveal that he had been working out and he started fighting a few times in the ring? It was in the late 90s with Austin and co.

when he started doing that I thought that made a pretty good addition to the story lines... And liked his dedication

he gives no fucks

 

[Deleted member 47027]

When did Vince reveal that he had been working out and he started fighting a few times in the ring? It was in the late 90s with Austin and co.

when he started doing that I thought that made a pretty good addition to the story lines... And liked his dedication

he gives no fucks

He works hard, plays hard

 

[Dark Ninja]

When did this happen?

It was last year. Condensed version of the match https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HApwS_f6tiU

He doesn't get enough credit
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81zig_kurt-angle-suplexes-shane-mcmahon-i_sport

He is slowly morphing into Vince

 

[Striker]

We're also still sort of coming off of 434 day reign from Punk...

That title was a hot potato through large portions of the Attitude Era.

That long reign was something far different than the rest. You know that. The difference is mainly the MitB briefcases. Look at some wrestlers, for instance:

Edge: 11 time WWE/WHC champion
Cena: 14 time WWE/WHC champion
Orton: 11 time WWE/WHC champion (he's only 33)
Punk: 5 time WWE/WHC champion
ADR: 4 time WWE/WHC champion

Four of those guys will have many more to come. Then you get into the IC/US titles, and you see Kofi Kingston is a 7-time champion. If somebody tells me on the broadcast that "x is a 7-time former champion" I'm thinking damn, dude must be good. Then you get... that.

The title was thrown a bit in the AE, I agree and that's silly also. But I see it as there's more titles so they are casted more as props and carry little importance or prestige anymore.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I watched wrestling as a kid, was a huge Hogan fan. I also liked the Stone Cold/Rock era, but I can't imagine watching wrestling today.

Do people actually like Cena, or is it a case of him being popular with kids? He's insufferable.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

He said today wrestlers are yesterdays marks/nerd wrestling fans. We just want to see/put on a good show.

As if people in the 70s got told by their guidance counselor that they should be a pro wrestler and then went and watched their first wrestling show, shrugging their shoulders and saying to themselves "I don't get it, but I guess so"

 

[m3k]

I watched wrestling as a kid, was a huge Hogan fan. I also liked the Stone Cold/Rock era, but I can't imagine watching wrestling today.

Do people actually like Cena, or is it a case of him being popular with kids? He's insufferable.

I dunno if they have turned him into a bad guy in a story line but kids like him

 

[Perspicacity]

That long reign was something far different than the rest. You know that. The difference is mainly the MitB briefcases. Look at some wrestlers, for instance:

Edge: 11 time WWE/WHC champion
Cena: 14 time WWE/WHC champion
Orton: 11 time WWE/WHC champion (he's only 33)
Punk: 5 time WWE/WHC champion
ADR: 4 time WWE/WHC champion

Four of those guys will have many more to come. Then you get into the IC/US titles, and you see Kofi Kingston is a 7-time champion. If somebody tells me on the broadcast that "x is a 7-time former champion" I'm thinking damn, dude must be good. Then you get... that.

The title was thrown a bit in the AE, I agree and that's silly also. But I see it as there's more titles so they are casted more as props and carry little importance or prestige anymore.

You're absolutely right about the belts losing prestige, but I think the big issue is WHC. It is a midcard title held by midcarders but referred to on the same level as the WWE strap. Axing it would also minimize the MITB issue as we wouldn't have multiple briefcases floating around at the same time and would beef up the IC/US titles by letting current WHC guys fight for them.

Also, just for reference - The Rock had 9 WWE/World title runs in the span of 4 years, so I don't think we're that far off nowadays considering Cena has been winning them for twice as long.

 

[JesseEwiak]

As if people in the 70s got told by their guidance counselor that they should be a pro wrestler and then went and watched their first wrestling show, shrugging their shoulders and saying to themselves "I don't get it, but I guess so"

Actually, it was closer too that a promoter would go to the local college and say, "you can make as much wrestling as you can playing football/other sports, so come on over." Much like comic book fans became writers in the 70's and 80's, the Rock 'n' Wrestling Boom led to lots of fans becoming wrestlers in the 90's.

Do people actually like Cena, or is it a case of him being popular with kids? He's insufferable.

Look back with adult eyes, Hulk Hogan was pretty insufferable too.

 

[serenewarfare]

As far as its' cultural standing, I think if the WWE Network ever gets off the ground, that'll be one of the biggest accomplishments in the product's history. WWE is pro wrestling in NA for all intents and purposes, and them launching a 24-hour network devoted to themselves, their past, and their future would pretty much immortalize them.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Actually, it was closer too that a promoter would go to the local college and say, "you can make as much wrestling as you can playing football/other sports, so come on over."

People still get recruited from football and because they're tall and olympic gold medalists and whatnot, but:

Hulk Hogan: Fan since high school
Randy Savage: Wrestled during the off season of his pro baseball career
Roddy Piper: Wrestled his first match at 14 against Mr. Perfect's dad.
Bobby Heenan: Lifelong fan
Shawn Michaels: Decided to pursue pro wrestling at the age of 12.