• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

How did the WWF/WWE become so successful?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vince is so good.

Its a shame Triple H never grasped the idea of making himself look bad to make the product better. Dude will be burying up and comers and ruining pushes until he retires.
 
vince-mcmahon-gif.gif
 
m3k said:
When did Vince reveal that he had been working out and he started fighting a few times in the ring? It was in the late 90s with Austin and co.

when he started doing that I thought that made a pretty good addition to the story lines... And liked his dedication

he gives no fucks
Click to expand...


It was in 1998, but when you look back at stuff even in the 80s, he's clearly SWOLL as fuck under those pastel blazers. He's been a weight lifting freak for decades.


tumblr_maaxzgXh6w1rqoq0po1_500.jpg


That's him second from the left in 1987, clearly SWOLL.

I guess because Jesse and King always said he was scrawny, I believed it, even though he was probably bigger and in better shape than Jesse Ventura was while they working together. Then he came out in 1998 with a sleeveless shirt and was HUGE and kept getting bigger and bigger until the past few years when he finally started to age and shrink a bit. There is a pretty awesome video of him training for a match with Bret Hart a few years ago where he has this great custom made weight belt that he's had since the mid 80s.
 
strobogo said:
Then he came out in 1998 with a sleeveless shirt and was HUGE and kept getting bigger and bigger until the past few years when he finally started to age and shrink a bit. There is a pretty awesome video of him training for a match with Bret Hart a few years ago where he has this great custom made weight belt that he's had since the mid 80s.
Click to expand...

Back in the day on rec.sport.pro-wrestling, there were always people fighting over "who would win a real fight between Bischoff and McMahon?" with all the WCW fans saying that Bischoff would win because he's a 3rd degree blackbelt or whatever. All that stuff pretty much ended after McMahon showed himself to be wrestler-level swoll
 
thefro said:
Back in the day on rec.sport.pro-wrestling, there were always people fighting over "who would win a real fight between Bischoff and McMahon?" with all the WCW fans saying that Bischoff would win because he's a 3rd degree blackbelt or whatever. All that stuff pretty much ended after McMahon showed himself to be wrestler-level swoll
Click to expand...

No shit. Vince would have snapped Bischoff in half with ease. Vince was bigger than pretty much all of his wrestlers that weren't dudes close to 7 feet. Especially in the the last few years. His match with Punk was hilarious, because despite being a nearly 70 year old man, he's still significantly bigger than Punk, who was the longest reigning champion in 25 years. He was as big or bigger than Hogan when they had their match. Vince is a monster for sure.
 
I will be fair and say the one thing the WWE hasn't dropped the ball on (recently) is the tag division. The Shield is a fantastic tag team/faction, The Wyatt family is good, Cody Rhodes and Goldust are good, and even the Usos are handled decently now.
 
man they hated on the usos for so long.... that pissed me off cause i know its because they don't have six packs.
 
m3k said:
When did Vince reveal that he had been working out and he started fighting a few times in the ring? It was in the late 90s with Austin and co.

when he started doing that I thought that made a pretty good addition to the story lines... And liked his dedication

he gives no fucks
Click to expand...

Vince was taking steroids & lifting weights from early '80s. He just couldn't show if off till the late '90s.
 
Stone Cold
The Rock

and to a lesser extent

Undertaker
Triple H

These 4 guys are who contributed to the WWE getting bigger than ever.

Wrestling used to be real. They used to teach guys catch wrestling. They don't really teach them that anymore though outside of Japanese style.
 
serenewarfare said:
As far as its' cultural standing, I think if the WWE Network ever gets off the ground, that'll be one of the biggest accomplishments in the product's history. WWE is pro wrestling in NA for all intents and purposes, and them launching a 24-hour network devoted to themselves, their past, and their future would pretty much immortalize them.
Click to expand...

WWE has a MASSIVE tape library stretching back decades and across promotions. I have to hope that their bigger accomplishment would be reintroducing the world to forgotten great wrestlers, feuds, and matches.
 
Pro Wrestling used to be regional depending on the federation/association
WWWF was a North-East operation back when Vince Sr was running things.

then it changed when Vince Jr took over, renaming it to WWF and expanding it to other markets to eventually become nationwide. Then he built up more on better personas and characters and then made Hulk Hogan a face and the rest is history.
 
Anth0ny said:
They had their chance. That promo from 2011 and the MITB that followed is why I'm following wrestling again.

Punk could have been the new Austin. That promo could have been the new Austin 3:16 promo and Austin stunnering McMahon wrapped in one. In 2011, the world wasn't quite as crazy at the late 90s. Obviously you can't just beat up your boss. That's not even remotely believable anymore.

What's the next best thing? Going up to your boss and saying "FUCK YOU, FUCK THIS COMPANY, FUCK YOUR FAMILY AND I HOPE YOU DIE". That was basically the Punk promo in a nutshell.

They followed it up with a 5 star match and what was probably the most interesting angle since the Attitude Era. But then...

hhhuzs0x.gif
Click to expand...

Punk doesn't have it in him to do what Austin did and I'm a fan of punk. Austin just has more charisma. Even as a kid when I watch WCW at late nights the Hollywood Blondes was a team I wanted to watch even though as a kid I didn't understand why. Then I watched him in ECW and even and Austin was angrier there and this made him even better. Then he finally heads to WWE and had the dolla man managing him even though he doesn't need it and this builds more anger in Austin. Stone Cold is just Austin exaggerated and based on what he has gone through in his career up until that KotR promo. The Rock, Bad ass Taker, and the Game version of Triple H, and Foley were all similar exaggerated versions of the guys type of characters.

The closest thing the WWE had to a modern day Austin was Ryder who campaigned like crazy and connected with the fans on his own terms. Of course the WWE squashed him for it.
 
charsace said:
Punk doesn't have it in him to do what Austin did and I'm a fan of punk. Austin just has more charisma. Even as a kid when I watch WCW at late nights the Hollywood Blondes was a team I wanted to watch even though as a kid I didn't understand why. Then I watched him in ECW and even and Austin was angrier there and this made him even better. Then he finally heads to WWE and had the dolla man managing him even though he doesn't need it and this builds more anger in Austin. Stone Cold is just Austin exaggerated and based on what he has gone through in his career up until that KotR promo. The Rock, Bad ass Taker, and the Game version of Triple H, and Foley were all similar exaggerated versions of the guys type of characters.

The closest thing the WWE had to a modern day Austin was Ryder who campaigned like crazy and connected with the fans on his own terms. Of course the WWE squashed him for it.
Click to expand...

Punk could have carved out his own niche, though. He was never going to be "the new Austin", both because he wasn't as effortlessly badass and because he simply wasn't big in a similarly large market, but he could have been big, in his own way, and he DOES have plenty of charisma, when allowed to do his own thing. He's the most consistently over guy in the company.
 
Vince was/is brilliant.

He put over 90,000 people into the Silverdome for Wrestlemania 3. He launched countless careers. He even turned the WWE into a publicly traded company.
 
gutter_trash said:
Pro Wrestling used to be regional depending on the federation/association
WWWF was a North-East operation back when Vince Sr was running things.

then it changed when Vince Jr took over, renaming it to WWF and expanding it to other markets to eventually become nationwide. Then he built up more on better personas and characters and then made Hulk Hogan a face and the rest is history.
Click to expand...

Er, well, that would be their first big success. But by the early 90's people were getting pretty tired of Hulkamania, the business was way down in '94 / '95, and WCW almost put them out of business for a while there in '96 / '97. I'm still under the belief that the Attitude Era was heavily influenced by ECW's overall style and types of storylines (don't hurt me). Russo was also pushing for the business to go more into a TV-centric format, or he was just throwing shit at the wall and it all worked out. Either way, WWF/E's success is not purely built on the shoulders of Hulk Hogan.
 
because sometimes scripted events are better than real ones.

I love MMA, but that shit is pretty boring to watch these days. In the past year maybe the only fight I like was Gustafson vs Jones
 
strobogo said:
No shit. Vince would have snapped Bischoff in half with ease. Vince was bigger than pretty much all of his wrestlers that weren't dudes close to 7 feet. Especially in the the last few years. His match with Punk was hilarious, because despite being a nearly 70 year old man, he's still significantly bigger than Punk, who was the longest reigning champion in 25 years. He was as big or bigger than Hogan when they had their match. Vince is a monster for sure.
Click to expand...

Didn't he admit to taking roids in the 80s when he was on trial for pushing them onto wrestlers?
 
knkng said:
Er, well, that would be their first big success. But by the early 90's people were getting pretty tired of Hulkamania, the business was way down in '94 / '95, and WCW almost put them out of business for a while there in '96 / '97. I'm still under the belief that the Attitude Era was heavily influenced by ECW's overall style and types of storylines (don't hurt me). Russo was also pushing for the business to go more into a TV-centric format, or he was just throwing shit at the wall and it all worked out. Either way, WWF/E's success is not purely built on the shoulders of Hulk Hogan.
Click to expand...

Hogan is what made the WWF big enough for there to BE a WCW-style competitor, and thus for the subsequent Attitude Era to occur. Of course Hogan is not purely responsible, but he is the foundation on which the company after that was built.

But the whole thing really is McMahon, who was the one with the initial vision to see that there was a market for a nationally-syndicated wrestling program, the one who saw that the old territorial system was nothing but a limitation to large profits and a larger share of the public's awareness.
 
is it just nostalgia or are todays stars not on the same level as those of the 90's?

wcw era sting
wcw ray mysterio
wcw billy kidman
austin
rock
etc etc

so much legendary shit back then
now i look at the entire wwe roster and its pretty meh....

either its nostalgia or they were better back then
maybe a little bit of both
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Hogan is what made the WWF big enough for there to BE a WCW-style competitor, and thus for the subsequent Attitude Era to occur. Of course Hogan is not purely responsible, but he is the foundation on which the company after that was built.

But the whole thing really is McMahon, who was the one with the initial vision to see that there was a market for a nationally-syndicated wrestling program, the one who saw that the old territorial system was nothing but a limitation to large profits and a larger share of the public's awareness.
Click to expand...

I agree that McMahon deserves all the credit for the successes of WWE, and I know that it was essentially with Hogan (+ national TV and Pay Per View) that he brought wrestling to the mainstream audience. I just don't agree with saying "he made Hogan, end of story." I think Austin and other wrestlers of that era are equally as important to the survival and overall mainstream popularity and success of the company. Not to mention, if certain changes weren't made in 1997, then the company very well may have died. Essentially, I see the company as basically being re-built from scratch starting with the New Generation and RAW in 1993, through to about 1998 when they captured an entirely new audience with mostly brand new talent. Hogan was the foundation, but the foundation crumbled, and I see the renaissance as being equally as important.
 
knkng said:
I agree that McMahon deserves all the credit for the successes of WWE, and I know that it was essentially with Hogan (+ national TV and Pay Per View) that he brought wrestling to the mainstream audience. I just don't agree with saying "he made Hogan, end of story." I think Austin and other wrestlers of that era are equally as important to the survival and overall mainstream popularity and success of the company. Not to mention, if certain changes weren't made in 1997, then the company very well may have died. Essentially, I see the company as basically being re-built from scratch starting with the New Generation and RAW in 1993, through to about 1998 when they captured an entirely new audience with mostly brand new talent. Hogan was the foundation, but the foundation crumbled, and I see the renaissance as being equally as important.
Click to expand...

That's all fair. And since Hogan was decently known prior to entering WWF, he didn't even necessarily "make" Hogan so much as he gave him his niche.
 
It's been said before, but Vince McMahon Jr. pushed WWF from a regional promotion to a national one, and then to a worldwide one.

With Hulk Hogan, McMahon had an incredibly charismatic champion who could capture any audience put before him. He made Hogan a household name by tying him to stars such as Cyndi Lauper and Mr. T.

It really was a combination of marketing genius, remarkable bravery, and business acumen at work for McMahon.
 
Vince should be an icon in the business world for taking a niche, regional product into a global brand that EVERYONE knows. People who never watched wrestling know WWE/WWF. It's everywhere. You can go to just about any chain store and you will find WWE logos in that building.

Toys: Big display
Electronics: Big display when games are released, dedicated space for DVDs.
Clothing: Usually a dedicated spot

Those are the big ones, but you'll also find WWE wrapping paper, posters, school supplies, arts and crafts, pillows/blankets, bandages, shower curtains. Just about anything you could think of.

What's even more impressive is that he's continued to grow and expand his company in the past decade even with the terrible economy. The brand awareness is pretty crazy.
 
knkng said:
Essentially, I see the company as basically being re-built from scratch starting with the New Generation and RAW in 1993, through to about 1998 when they captured an entirely new audience with mostly brand new talent. Hogan was the foundation, but the foundation crumbled, and I see the renaissance as being equally as important.
Click to expand...
It had to be because the WWF/Vince were screwed up by the steroid allegations. Add on top of that, they were losing top main eventers like Hogan, Warrior, and Flair in that same time frame. Savage, Dibiase and Perfect had injuries of their own, and guys like Roberts and Rude left for WCW. So they really had no other choice but to rebuild. It took a while but Bret Hart became a huge star and helped sell the shows. It only took until mid 1996 to really start kick in the engine again, and guys like Hart, Michaels, and Taker were leading the way with new (albeit proven) talent from WCW/ECW coming over in Foley, Austin, Goldust, Pillman, and Vader.
 
Alchemy said:
Didn't he admit to taking roids in the 80s when he was on trial for pushing them onto wrestlers?
Click to expand...

You should read the interview he did with the government during the investigation after the whole Chris Benoit incident. They ask him multiple times if he ever took steroids and if he had to adhere to the same wellness policy that he enforced on his wrestlers and he dodges the question like a pro. :lol
 
Seraphis Cain said:
You should read the interview he did with the government during the investigation after the whole Chris Benoit incident. They ask him multiple times if he ever took steroids and if he had to adhere to the same wellness policy that he enforced on his wrestlers and he dodges the question like a pro. :lol
Click to expand...

Any link? Vince's business acumen is fun to study.
 
charsace said:
Punk doesn't have it in him to do what Austin did and I'm a fan of punk. Austin just has more charisma. Even as a kid when I watch WCW at late nights the Hollywood Blondes was a team I wanted to watch even though as a kid I didn't understand why. Then I watched him in ECW and even and Austin was angrier there and this made him even better. Then he finally heads to WWE and had the dolla man managing him even though he doesn't need it and this builds more anger in Austin. Stone Cold is just Austin exaggerated and based on what he has gone through in his career up until that KotR promo. The Rock, Bad ass Taker, and the Game version of Triple H, and Foley were all similar exaggerated versions of the guys type of characters.

The closest thing the WWE had to a modern day Austin was Ryder who campaigned like crazy and connected with the fans on his own terms. Of course the WWE squashed him for it.
Click to expand...

I think one of the big Roadblocks to Punk becoming Massive like Hogan/Austin/Rock is his size. He doesn't pass the eye test.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
I think one of the big Roadblocks to Punk becoming Massive like Hogan/Austin/Rock is his size. He doesn't pass the eye test.
Click to expand...

But then one can argue with the popularity that Shawn Michaels has. Even before the whole DX scene.

Sure Punk doesn't match the typical buff or body they used to have, but honestly, I think WWE has been more progressive about that. Look at the last few years and it is evident that WWE has been pushing better performers regardless of their look appeal, at least when compared to before.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Successful (so far) Robbery of Armored Truck in Philadelphia 1.8 mil
2
55
461
Queso de Grande replied
How long did you first relationship last?
2
64
1K
John Marston replied
So for all that "AI crisis killing memory prices" - did anyone run the numbers?
6
439
Soodanim replied
Comments on the modern WWE
9
497
Beretta replied
YouTube ads will become unskippable
News  2 3 4
166
2K
Giallo Corsa replied
Top Bottom