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How Do You Define an "Indie Game"
- Thread starter Zukkoyaki
- Start date
justjustin
Member
The term is so entrenched I don't use it when describing how a game plays or when recommending one. Different developers are capable of different things in different situations with different amounts of money and people like art for different reasons; so all that being unknown, I treat all games equally. But here's some ways I've seen it used.
It's an indie, self-published game. (being literal)
It's an indie game, so I'd totally pay 5 bucks for it. (cheap/throwaway)
I'll buy it because it's an indie game. (patronage)
It's an indie game so adjust your expectations. (it's special/different)
It's and indie game as opposed to AAA corporate schlock. (the all talk artist definition)
It's an indie, self-published game. (being literal)
It's an indie game, so I'd totally pay 5 bucks for it. (cheap/throwaway)
I'll buy it because it's an indie game. (patronage)
It's an indie game so adjust your expectations. (it's special/different)
It's and indie game as opposed to AAA corporate schlock. (the all talk artist definition)
Hot Coldman
Banned
please tell me you're joking
I am.
However this will probably end up like the last JRPG/WRPG definitions thread with heated semantical discussions and no conclusion.
Hot Coldman
Banned
OK good. I lost faith in the human race for a second there
I think the most lenient definition would be anything where the studio isn't owned or fulfilling a series contract to a publisher.
In the middle ground you have some games made by small to medium sized teams where a publisher like Devolver or Adult Swim is mostly just helping with the paperwork and distribution, not funding the project.
If you want to get stricter, then it only describes just self-published games.
In the middle ground you have some games made by small to medium sized teams where a publisher like Devolver or Adult Swim is mostly just helping with the paperwork and distribution, not funding the project.
If you want to get stricter, then it only describes just self-published games.
Personally define it with the literal game that is independently funded and published.
Since enough other people have just reduced it down to mean small priced game with small budget, I tend to just do the same thing when informing or recommending a small game to people. I'd love if people were more literal about it like they should, but it gets me nowhere having that discussion, and if anything has made me look bad when I've tried to correct someone.
Like so many terms in the video game space, it's basically going to get used a bunch of different ways, and not have much meaning until a new term comes along. Steam has listed indie as an actual genre on their storefront, so not much hope there.
Since enough other people have just reduced it down to mean small priced game with small budget, I tend to just do the same thing when informing or recommending a small game to people. I'd love if people were more literal about it like they should, but it gets me nowhere having that discussion, and if anything has made me look bad when I've tried to correct someone.
Like so many terms in the video game space, it's basically going to get used a bunch of different ways, and not have much meaning until a new term comes along. Steam has listed indie as an actual genre on their storefront, so not much hope there.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I think Devolver and Adult Swim absolutely do fund games, but just not entirely - in the case of games like STRAFE or Luftrausers, they came in after the project had (publicly) began to supply additional funding. The indie publishers seem to take way more of a "OK, you know what you're doing, we don't need to fuck with your game but we're definitely in for a cut of the profits" approach to things. Which lets the projects retain indie status.
Its probably easier to turn the question on its head and wonder which games blur 'what is an indie game' label and see if they are acceptable exception or require adaption of whatever is the current accepted notion of an 'indie game'.
Stuff like NMS, Unravel, Grow Home and even Minecraft/Witcher 3 seem to blur that definition.
ps3ud0 8)
Stuff like NMS, Unravel, Grow Home and even Minecraft/Witcher 3 seem to blur that definition.
ps3ud0 8)
SomedayTheFire
Member
An independently funded and developed game.
Wishmaster92
Member
When I think of indie I think 2-d games 80% of the time for some reason.
In film isn't indie just used to describe what's made outside the big Hollywood system? If I'm not mistaken the Star Wars films (or some of them) are considered indie. There are "indie labels" in film that aren't connected to Hollywood or the major film industries of other countries, you would consider Devolver an equivalent to those probably. The closest thing to Fox Searchlight was probably EA Partners. By that definition Crysis is technically an indie game. The Witcher 3 is probably the equivalent to how Fox Searchlight might handle US distribution of a British movie. Sony is distributing the physical version of No Man's Sky, but the development of the actual game is still entirely self-funded.
FriedConsole
Banned
Anything that is pretentious or with a force fed social/political message is indie.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Something produced, financed and/or distributed independently of more established, traditional channels.
what did Undertale do to u man
If that counts, then so do all Ubisoft Montreal's games and various other games made in-house by big publishers. CD Projekt Red is the developer, CD Projekt the publisher. Bamco merely handles the distribution outside of Poland.
at that point, whether or not it would be received as "indie" would depend on its theme, lol
Alienous said:
you aren't alone, and I think it's pretty unfortunate that so many see all games today as being one of these two things.
Kayo Police
Member
Just a small self published team working on a game while surviving on nothing but ramen.
yurinka
Member
Indie = Independently published, outside the group of the major publishers. Major publisher are the ones who publish AAA games, doesn't matter if they have 1 studio or 30.
Journey, Flower, Child of Light, Grow Home, Unravel, Fez, Ori were published by major publishers, so they aren't indie.
Valve and CD Project are major publishers who release big selling AAA games, so aren't indie. If they are indie, EA or Ubisoft should be considered indie too. It doesn't make sense.
Regarding creative freedom and publishers, games need to be greenlighted and approved by whoever funds them. Sometimes the games are self-published by the developer, but has an external inverstor or shareholders so sometimes they may require certain changes or reject ideas.
A game can be small, can be artsy, can be made with total creative freedom without being indie. And a non-indie can be small, artsy and made with total creative freedom.
Journey, Flower, Child of Light, Grow Home, Unravel, Fez, Ori were published by major publishers, so they aren't indie.
Valve and CD Project are major publishers who release big selling AAA games, so aren't indie. If they are indie, EA or Ubisoft should be considered indie too. It doesn't make sense.
Regarding creative freedom and publishers, games need to be greenlighted and approved by whoever funds them. Sometimes the games are self-published by the developer, but has an external inverstor or shareholders so sometimes they may require certain changes or reject ideas.
A game can be small, can be artsy, can be made with total creative freedom without being indie. And a non-indie can be small, artsy and made with total creative freedom.
No, it isn't. If The Witcher 3 is indie, Uncharted 4, Call of Duty, FIFA and The Division are indie too.
timetokill
Banned
Disagree, big time. There's no way I'd call those games indie. Especially something like Flower where it's getting millions of dollars from a platform holder as well as assistance from major developers like Sony Santa Monica, and has a credits screen that's like 100s of names long.
CDPR is a subsidiary of CDP as mentioned above. They also own and operate GOG, which is a fairly major distribution platform in the PC space. They aren't indie just because they aren't an old name mega studio like Ubisoft.
These aren't all categorically similar however. I don't know the details if all of them received supportive development funding, but I'm under the impression Fez and Original were made at significant personal risk. Grow Home and Child of Light are small funded Ubisoft house projects. They might resemble a lot of indie games in scope and quality, but they definitely should not count.
Yes. It's like how Mel Gibson funded The Passion out of his own pocket.
More_Badass
Member
Yes. Budget isn't a variable that makes something an indie game or not. Yes, most indie games are smaller budget, but that's due to the nature of who's making the game, not a concrete part of the formula. Star Citizen is a good example
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
Did No Man's Sky cease to be an indie game when Sony picked it up and started funding it?
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
These.
More_Badass
Member
I think the big problem is people have this concrete idea of what an indie game is and must be, while the entire indie scene has evolved and moved past that original idea years ago. It's like saying email isn't really mail because it isn't written messages in a mail box or Netflix series aren't shows because they're not weekly episodes on a network channel.
I can't fathom how someone could say because Ghost Song or Rain World got picked up Adult Swim after they were Kickstarted, they suddenly cease to be indie games, especially if you know about their development
I can't fathom how someone could say because Ghost Song or Rain World got picked up Adult Swim after they were Kickstarted, they suddenly cease to be indie games, especially if you know about their development
First off the words indie and independent are two different beasts. There are plenty of independent developers, like Insomniac, but they don't make indie games. To me indie games embody a mindset, a spirit.
They favor a couple traits:
1. Usually the developer is small. Maybe it's just one guy. Maybe it's 20-30. I don't think anything from a studio with hundreds of workers could ever be considered indie.
2. Projects are often also riskier in terms of gameplay mechanics, structure, or art direction. They look to innovate and deviate instead of iterate on trends like the AAA industry traditionally does. This is the main reason why I've shifted to prefer indies. They're fresh and unique.
3. Projects are often smaller in scale and scope. Some like 140 and Proteus may take less than an hour to beat. This doesn't necessarily mean games can't be long, as some use methods like procedural generation to boost playtime significantly.
4. Games are either self-published or assisted by small publishers who allow creative freedom. A large publisher can even publish from time to time, providing they trust in the developer and allow complete control.
5. Games are developed under a smaller budget. This also allows them to launch at a small price.
6. Games are often labeled 'artistic.' This is often a direct result of the trait listed in point 2.
Granted, an indie game doesn't have to follow all of these rules, just a fair amount of them. Unravel is a good example. It was published by EA, one of the least innovative companies in gaming. Yet, Unravel was a unique, artistic experience crafted around an interesting yarn mechanic, with a ton of love. Nothing about that game makes you think it's akin to this year's Battlefield, Need for Speed, or Sports Game 20XX.
Ultimately the indie moniker is a lot like the 'artisanal' moniker. It's a spirit that embodies uniqueness, artistry, and an overall passion for it's craft. And it doesn't mind if you don't understand it or call it pretentious.
By maybe that's just me...
They favor a couple traits:
1. Usually the developer is small. Maybe it's just one guy. Maybe it's 20-30. I don't think anything from a studio with hundreds of workers could ever be considered indie.
2. Projects are often also riskier in terms of gameplay mechanics, structure, or art direction. They look to innovate and deviate instead of iterate on trends like the AAA industry traditionally does. This is the main reason why I've shifted to prefer indies. They're fresh and unique.
3. Projects are often smaller in scale and scope. Some like 140 and Proteus may take less than an hour to beat. This doesn't necessarily mean games can't be long, as some use methods like procedural generation to boost playtime significantly.
4. Games are either self-published or assisted by small publishers who allow creative freedom. A large publisher can even publish from time to time, providing they trust in the developer and allow complete control.
5. Games are developed under a smaller budget. This also allows them to launch at a small price.
6. Games are often labeled 'artistic.' This is often a direct result of the trait listed in point 2.
Granted, an indie game doesn't have to follow all of these rules, just a fair amount of them. Unravel is a good example. It was published by EA, one of the least innovative companies in gaming. Yet, Unravel was a unique, artistic experience crafted around an interesting yarn mechanic, with a ton of love. Nothing about that game makes you think it's akin to this year's Battlefield, Need for Speed, or Sports Game 20XX.
Ultimately the indie moniker is a lot like the 'artisanal' moniker. It's a spirit that embodies uniqueness, artistry, and an overall passion for it's craft. And it doesn't mind if you don't understand it or call it pretentious.
By maybe that's just me...
The definition of indie film seems to be just as nebulous as indie game if you look at Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_film Notice it doesn't mean the total lack of a production company, just something made outside the major film studio system, or something that got a very high degree of creative freedom compared to the blockbusters.
Everyone's view of indie games still seems to be defined by what was on Xbox Live Arcade between 2006 and 2009, or by the walking simulators coming out on the PS4 now. DOOM was initially released as a free indie game.
Everyone's view of indie games still seems to be defined by what was on Xbox Live Arcade between 2006 and 2009, or by the walking simulators coming out on the PS4 now. DOOM was initially released as a free indie game.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
WaterAstro
Member
So Stardew Valley isn't indie.
In everyday language the term indie game refers to games that are small scale in some fashion. I would describe Nintendo's Pushmo as an indie-style game made by a major publisher, for example.
I used to say indie games are games that only release on DD platforms, but nowadays many popular indie titles are available in physical form so it's an outdated defnition.
I used to say indie games are games that only release on DD platforms, but nowadays many popular indie titles are available in physical form so it's an outdated defnition.
storafötter
Member
It is almost true what you said. The same applies for the music industry. Indie is more about a specific style or being different than the norm. It lost its meaning as independent product long time ago.
In the beginning like with all mediums they used to be more independent but nowadays the idea of an indie product is more based on its conception or style. Being small or different. Even if it has become mainstream we still apply such definition. Most films and music defined as indie are not even independent anymore.
imyouroph3liac
Banned
For me, indie games are games which has been independently funded, with no association with any triple-A or other such video game developers.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
The Witcher 3 then.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
By it's very definition, an independently developed and published game.
Most of them tend to be small in scale though, so I think anything like an XBLA style game etc can be grouped in as a general catch all term. (Although it's not always technically accurate).
Most of them tend to be small in scale though, so I think anything like an XBLA style game etc can be grouped in as a general catch all term. (Although it's not always technically accurate).
If it's made in an office rather than a house, it's not indie.
If it's made on a computer that only contains legally downloaded software, it's not indie.
If the creation of it doesn't utterly destroy the developers on a physical, emotional, and social level without guarantee of any sort of payment whatsoever, it's not indie.
If it's made on a computer that only contains legally downloaded software, it's not indie.
If the creation of it doesn't utterly destroy the developers on a physical, emotional, and social level without guarantee of any sort of payment whatsoever, it's not indie.