It didn't kill Steve Jobs. Pancreatic Cancer is a death sentence. There is no treatment for it. You may prolong life for a short while but you are not surviving it unfortunately.
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How do you feel about "Alternate Medicine"?
- Thread starter Kinitari
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It didn't kill Steve Jobs. Pancreatic Cancer is a death sentence. There is no treatment for it. You may prolong life for a short while but you are not surviving it unfortunately.
Saargabath
Member
I've experienced several "alternative" medicine stuff among other things during the past few years.
What I can honestly say is some weird shit is going on out there and what matters is to deal with the right people. Some are downright crazy, some others have unexplained gifts. Most of it is utter bullshit, some is actually very intriguing. And I've tried Reiki. Can't tell if it works. All I can say for sure is that it makes me want to sleep. It is a good relaxation method.
What I can honestly say is some weird shit is going on out there and what matters is to deal with the right people. Some are downright crazy, some others have unexplained gifts. Most of it is utter bullshit, some is actually very intriguing. And I've tried Reiki. Can't tell if it works. All I can say for sure is that it makes me want to sleep. It is a good relaxation method.
Lol, no. I really can't explain it and they didn't use the term "negative energy". I think some of you have a comic book idea of what acupuncture is. They "prescribed" some herbal teas but they were so disgusting that I didn't drink any of them. I really wasn't a believer but I went in with an open mind. The worst case scenario for me was simply to continue taking the pills my doctor prescribed which came with side effects that I didn't like. Best case was not taking the pills, but having the same outcome. All I can say is it works for some things. When I asked them if they had any techniques for my cluster headaches they told me honestly that they didn't.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Who told her she was cured?
It sounds like she had limited disease that was "cured" when they excised the lymph nodes. She probably has microscopic disease remaining in her system and is probably at risk for relapse.
Herein lies the danger of alternative medicine. Without proper medical follow-up, there is no way to really know how she is doing now. Is she 100% in remission? What are her chances of relapsing? Could she already be relapsing but at a stage where it hasn't clinically manifested itself yet? Just believing in the treatment doesn't answer any of these questions.
CornBurrito
Member
Read up on spontaneous remission.
She had proper medical follow-up after she started feeling better.
They told her it was in remission.
Read my other responses.
Well since I was ignored I'll go into more detail.
I know something called Myofascial Release. It is also known as Trigger Point Therapy, rolfing, and a bunch of other things. They're all similar just little differences and different creators, but the concept is pretty much the same.
It's legit and it has tons of basing in science.
Here is the bible of it written by two doctors:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0683307711/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There is also an easier to read version called Trigger Point Therapy Workbook:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1572243759/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There's also: http://www.myofascialrelease.com/
That's only the tip of the iceberg.
Forget the chi and spiritual flow malarkey, you can sell it that way to the hippies if you want, but it works scientifically.
On myself, I use a foam roller, which TONS of gyms across the country have started to incorporate. And used correctly, it's a god send.
I sit a lot at work, so I'll cross one leg over the other and wiggle my tight as hell hamstrings on the foam roller and after 5 minutes on each leg, really holding it in the bad spots and putting my weight into it, it loosens up a lot. Then I do that with my glutes. And thighs and shin muscles.
Check Youtube for 100s of video on how to use a foam roller. I also use a Tiger Tail for my neck. And a racquet ball for my calves, and entire back and shoulder blade muscles.
Scientifically, overworked muscles create muscular adhesions and toxins which lead to stiffness and pain while preventing bloodflow and nutrients and they don't clear out on their own no matter how much time you give them. Squeezing and pushing and holding onto the trigger point/knots/myofascial tissue/adhesion (all the same shit), cleans it out and you notice it after one session. If you keep doing it over time, son of a gun, you get better.
But you don't have to take my word for it. Grab a ball or foam roller and try it for yourself.
I know something called Myofascial Release. It is also known as Trigger Point Therapy, rolfing, and a bunch of other things. They're all similar just little differences and different creators, but the concept is pretty much the same.
It's legit and it has tons of basing in science.
Here is the bible of it written by two doctors:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0683307711/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There is also an easier to read version called Trigger Point Therapy Workbook:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1572243759/?tag=neogaf0e-20
There's also: http://www.myofascialrelease.com/
That's only the tip of the iceberg.
Forget the chi and spiritual flow malarkey, you can sell it that way to the hippies if you want, but it works scientifically.
On myself, I use a foam roller, which TONS of gyms across the country have started to incorporate. And used correctly, it's a god send.
I sit a lot at work, so I'll cross one leg over the other and wiggle my tight as hell hamstrings on the foam roller and after 5 minutes on each leg, really holding it in the bad spots and putting my weight into it, it loosens up a lot. Then I do that with my glutes. And thighs and shin muscles.
Check Youtube for 100s of video on how to use a foam roller. I also use a Tiger Tail for my neck. And a racquet ball for my calves, and entire back and shoulder blade muscles.
Scientifically, overworked muscles create muscular adhesions and toxins which lead to stiffness and pain while preventing bloodflow and nutrients and they don't clear out on their own no matter how much time you give them. Squeezing and pushing and holding onto the trigger point/knots/myofascial tissue/adhesion (all the same shit), cleans it out and you notice it after one session. If you keep doing it over time, son of a gun, you get better.
But you don't have to take my word for it. Grab a ball or foam roller and try it for yourself.
CornBurrito
Member
Well from what I gather, you want us to believe it worked for your aunt and other people without explaining what type of alternative treatment it was. It could be anything from prayer therpay to magic crystals. Nothing we can even go on.
hockeypuck
Member
1. This 18 year old article is based on acute low back pain, for which we've argued earlier in this thread that for acute LBP chiropractic is no better than sham spinal manipulation, according to a 2012 meta-analysis.
2. It's a non-randomized observational study, so really, really weak; hypothesis-generating at best. I really wished the abstract included a negative control group. I'm still waiting on those meta-analyses that Emerson claimed to support chiropractic treatment for non-acute low back pain.
It just prob killed him sooner then.
Funny enough I just bought a foam roller. Also, my girlfriend is an RMT - so I can appreciate that messages and back work can give crazy relief for back aches.
I think massage therapy is interesting because some might label it as alternative (some might not anymore however), but many of its concepts have gotten quite a bit of scientific support, and generally it's scope of curative claims are "muscle aches".
I think things like "trigger points" need to be studied more rigorously, not because I think they're necessarily bunk, but only because a lot of what's understood about them is very general. The "why" and the nitty gritty still needs a lot of info.
Although honestly I haven't educated myself about it too much, I'd be curious as to what gaf-doctors think.
They've actually been studied A LOT. The first amazon link is written by medical doctors. And both books delve into the scientifics of Trigger Points quite a bit. Plus you can just Google it. There's a ton of legit information. Although, you're right, there should be a lot more.
Why it never gained the traction it should have MEDICALLY, I don't know. It certainly is easier to prescribe a few pills though and it keeps the doctors making money instead of people who can fix the human body, assuming they know what they're doing. Oh and myofascial release is not massage. Massage feels good. This shit hurts haha. But it hurts "good". Hard to explain. And by the way, by me saying that massage and myofascial release are not the same doesn't mean I'm discounting masseuses. In fact, a masseuse can learn myofascial release in a couple weeks EASILY, because they already have the most important knowledge, human anatomy and the musculoskeletal system.
EDIT: I just looked up RMT. What's that? Reiki Master Teacher? If so, what is that (I'm aware that I should probably know this, but I don't).
evil solrac v3.0
Member
is alternative medicine responsible for having Tigers and Rhinos killed for their body parts? if it is then it is a crock of shit.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
People should watch the 2 or 3 Penn and Teller bullshit episodes concerning different kinds of "alternate medicine". It's absolute shit and it's sad people get away with scamming people on it.
I'm currently reading this article about trigger points. It really speaks to the empiricist in me, and I might end up recommending it to my girlfriend, if only for the interesting conversation. if you have the time, read it and let me know what you think
http://saveyourself.ca/articles/trigger-point-doubts.php
edit:
I see you mentioned masseuses and stuff, but my girlfriend isn't a masseuse persay, she is an RMT (registered massage therapist - fancy masseuse who has to have some actual anatomical knowledge involving anatomy like the fascia) almost all of what she does is myofascial release and the like. She is versed in the gentle stuff as well, but when she massages me it's the 'hurts so good' sort of way, and that's basically what everyone who requests massages from her ask for.
I've read that in its entirety sometime last year. It's long lol. If there's a specific portion or portions you want me to comment on, just pick them out and I'll gladly do so. Responding to the whole thing is crazy though.
Off the bat I'd like to say a few things that I noticed. When you body is stiff, it's stiff (no duh). But there's another element. When your mind is stressed, as in longterm, your body also gets stiff. I remember when I stopped hanging out with some bad people a few years back, and as the days went on I could literally feel the stress leaving my body. I've felt this way leaving bad jobs as well.
I also noticed heavy drinking (dehydration) causes muscle pain. I never noticed that being hydrated fixes pain, but preventing dehydration prevents "added pain". I also noticed D-Magnesium-Calcium supplements actually alleviate pain.
I know that myofascial release, all things equal and not using any supplements and having a poor diet and posture, still frees up muscles and gets rid of the pain until sitting on my ass, not exercising, and having bad posture causes it to come back again. And I'm in a much better mood since I'm relaxed and not fighting stiffness or pain. If I do it wrong or pick the wrong area, I feel the same. If I hit the correct area(s), AND hit them properly, then I'm sitting pretty.
Doing it correctly involves an element of luck. Time spent, pressure, angle, etc. But the best part is once you have a ball or foam roller you don't have to take my word for it. It's free and you can do it whenever and wherever you want. And with practice, you'll understand how to hit the right muscles correctly more often.
Well reading through right now, I've gotten a very consistent theme from the article, and it's basically "trigger points might actually be something, but we don't really know what it is, and we don't have anything that empirically and consistently 'diagnoses' them" - basically he is taking a pretty sceptic view on what he originally learned as an RMT, not necessarily discounting the efficacy of massage therapy and fascial work, but more the explanations provided by his teachers and the literature that is available on the techniques out there.
He says other things as well, but I wanted to know what you thought about this general point he seems to be making repeatedly. I guess if I were to summarize it, it would be "we don't actually know all that much about trigger points, not nearly enough for it to be scientific".
Easy peasy. You can feel them. You can feel the little bitches. I am the perfect case for some reason I get them badly and repeatedly. My traps are rock hard but I'm weak. Get a ball in there, or in the traps case specifically, a fist and knuckles and do it right, those rocks are gone, and soft weak muscle is there for about a month until my bad habits cause rocks again.
I can pinpoint tons of shitty areas on my body fast. When I use these techniques to work them out of the area, its soft not rigid, easy to move, I can stretch better, I'm relaxed, I can sit straight, stand straight.
You can feel see stretch touch poke prod and notice the difference. What used to click no longer does, what used to ache doesn't, what felt stiff is soft. If a shoulder was higher, it no longer is.
Done average, it works for a bit. Done well, it works for a week at least with terrible terrible habits. Done well with good habits, and it lasts over a month to several months or much more. No exaggeration at all.
Freaky fun fact: Take a person who can only sleep in one weird position. It takes them forever to get to sleep and they sleep weird. Loosen up the right muscles, and that person can fall asleep faster, sleep in other positions, and wake up with less or no stiffness. No kidding around.
If I wasn't so damn lazy, id do it until I was "perfect" then get better habits, exercise and id be normal or awesome. Unfortunately I'm the laziest son of a gun known to mankind haha. Any other parts you want to know about, or if I wasn't clear enough by all means ask more. Been doing it for 9 years.
I can pinpoint tons of shitty areas on my body fast. When I use these techniques to work them out of the area, its soft not rigid, easy to move, I can stretch better, I'm relaxed, I can sit straight, stand straight.
You can feel see stretch touch poke prod and notice the difference. What used to click no longer does, what used to ache doesn't, what felt stiff is soft. If a shoulder was higher, it no longer is.
Done average, it works for a bit. Done well, it works for a week at least with terrible terrible habits. Done well with good habits, and it lasts over a month to several months or much more. No exaggeration at all.
Freaky fun fact: Take a person who can only sleep in one weird position. It takes them forever to get to sleep and they sleep weird. Loosen up the right muscles, and that person can fall asleep faster, sleep in other positions, and wake up with less or no stiffness. No kidding around.
If I wasn't so damn lazy, id do it until I was "perfect" then get better habits, exercise and id be normal or awesome. Unfortunately I'm the laziest son of a gun known to mankind haha. Any other parts you want to know about, or if I wasn't clear enough by all means ask more. Been doing it for 9 years.
That's a little too simplistic, I mean he goes on to talk about studies where two different therapists will find TPs in different places, or the study where it found TPs as 'soft' parts in the muscle, or the study that shows that 30% of TPs are completely misdiagnosed. He even goes on to discuss how Palpatory pareidolia lead to false positives very easily. His general point is that it isn't and shouldn't be as simple as "I feel it so it's there" if it wants to have more acceptance as real science.
That's impossible without me having better tools unfortunately. That's actually part of why I don't do this for a living my man. I have my license, I know my shit, but I don't practice (to clarify, I do but for friends and family because it's quite hard to market). Sad isn't it? Doctors need to be studying this but pills are easier to prescribe and if you look.. and I urge you to.. there is no medical doctor specifically for muscles. We need the medical realm behind us but many act like it doesn't exist or don't know nearly the extent of it. There's TONS of info out there, and it does work!! Does it have the AMOUNT, the sheer VOLUME it should backed by tons and tons of studies and medical degrees? Not nearly!
Well, there is, sort of I guess. Osteopathy is the closest thing we have:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy
One scientific thing I saw in several books, and definitely in the book by Dr Janet Travell and Dr. David Simons (the 2 books are over 1000 pages and very very verbose) book goes into I believe, is that you can see trigger points in fresh carcasses, and sometimes even in chicken in the supermarket. I'd have to dig that up.
Here's the book again: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0683307711/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I can definitely say there are false positives everywhere in many diagnoses by many doctors. Just because some bodyworkers incorrectly think they feel trigger points that are not knots, and rather are some other illness or issue, doesn't mean that trigger points aren't everywhere. As a silly example, if a lumpy spot is cancer, well then fine, it's cancer, but it doesn't mean it might not feel similar (they don't I'm just drawing a blank for a better example), get what I'm saying? And if you've gone to see someone for pain who fixes trigger points, they're going to look for trigger points, which might get a false positive, get me?
But the cool thing is, all you have to do is *correctly* roll on that foam roller or ball, and if you do it right, you'll see the difference and you won't need a microscope and fresh carcass to prove it. And there are so many videos and web sites that explain it, that it's worth a shot.
Hell just do a simple search like this and look at the incredible amount of various websites you'll see, everything from a regular dude doing it for relief, to heavy lifters, etc: https://www.google.com/search?q=foam+roller+hamstring
I know there's a lot of bunk out there sold as science, but you already have the tool, give it a shot after watching a few videos from different people about the same muscle group.
A disease with a notably low survival rate killed Steve Jobs.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
Most of the benefits one would feel from visiting a chiro could also be gained by seeing a physio. The difference is that the physio will understand their actions through a system that is actually applicable to the human body as it exists, and won't promise the sky.
As for the deficiencies of western/conventional medicine, I suggest reading this: Why Most Published Research Findings Are False and the related articles. Also this, if you can access it or find a copy. Clearly the peer review framework has issues and is susceptible to human error. But it's still a whole lot better for determining what's worthwhile than doing nothing, which is about par for the course when it comes to alternative medicines.
As for the deficiencies of western/conventional medicine, I suggest reading this: Why Most Published Research Findings Are False and the related articles. Also this, if you can access it or find a copy. Clearly the peer review framework has issues and is susceptible to human error. But it's still a whole lot better for determining what's worthwhile than doing nothing, which is about par for the course when it comes to alternative medicines.
blame space
Banned
what does everyone think of craniosacral therapy
Proof or retraction.
Nemesis_
Member
This is what I was trying to say originally, but you put it into better words. Thank you
Which he assisted by being stupid.
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