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[Bearjewpiter]

He invented masturbation. How bad can he be?

Something something idle hands.

And that is without including the flood.

God is love, man

 

[mattiewheels]

I appreciate the Satanic religion, because it embraces everything that's great and just about the concept of Satan (empowerment of the self but not at the expense of others or the law, etc), and they're just so much more relatable to me than Christian fundies.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I leave this quote from The Call of Cthulhu by HP Lovecraft(which by the way, he was a devout Christian):

He was also racist af...

Love his stories though.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I liked his portrayal in Sandman. He was so very Satan while still being sympathetic. I like that he wasn't portrayed like how a lot of media where he's misunderstood and is actually a nice guy, etc. No, this guy was ruthless and would spin around you mentally but he was still rarely unfair and despised people who both blamed him for everything in the world or praised him for being a rebel. He wanted people to just be themselves and worship no one.
It was pretty sad how you feel Yahweh put him in a catch-22 in this version. He always wanted him to rebel and it was always something that haunted him in the series how it made him feel his rebellion was cheapened because it was part of god's plan but at the same time the only way to avoid it was to stay loyal and obedient like his brother, something he couldn't stand. Also, he always denied being the snake.

It's really good, more people should read it.

 

[Sblargh]

People often say "why God won't physically show himself and prove once and for all that he exists" and use it as a proof that God doesn't exist, because surely he as a maximally great being could, should and would do that.

But I think that what you wrote demonstrates at least one reason that's not going to happen. It would be very likely that when suddenly encountered by God, lots of people probably wouldn't be happy at all with it. That's why our walk with God should be based on faith. The trust in God should come from a very deep place from within. Otherwise the first thing we would do is to accuse God of being a dick to us, to who we love and to the rest of the people. Like for example I could imagine myself claiming him to be petty if he's not ok with me lusting over women. I would say it's not hurting anyone and it feels good to me. Then I would probably say he's responsible for my lust anyway since he made me the way I am, and as I've been overly sexual at least from when I was only six years old, then how I'm supposed to suppress a thing I've lived with ever since I was a little boy. And in the end all I'm doing is trying to create my own rules and telling excuses.

And if it turns out that he has rejected someone who I've thought had been a wonderful person for their whole life, I might say God is wrong because I knew that person better. Why would he be a dick to someone who I liked? Who I liked! Plus, he's a genocidal tyrant anyways, so I'm right. Right?

I'm in love with my ego so much that a sudden encounter with God might not be good to me at all. It may be that being able to come in terms with God through more philosophic angle is better for me. And even then, encountering God could be an awkward situation because even when I might think God is now ok with me, it might turn out he'll point out all the hypocrisy and stubborness there still is within me and I might get angry because of it. The only thing I really can count in is that even though God might be very pleased with some aspects of my life (like I'm generally trying to be kind towards people), he probably still has plenty of or at least some issues with me. Because who am I to say "yeah you are right in that I'm a kind person but you are wrong in where you think I'm not good?" As if the ultimate reality beyond our physical lives is based on what we think is the most comfortable thing right at this moment. There needs to be this certain type of humbleness and acceptance of an authority (which I admit always seems to sting my ego a bit) which I think is hard to come by in any other way than through a faith-based understanding of God.

It's easy to call out God for things we think are not fair, but what if we'd have the power of God? Things would go astray the day this new God-person would have his first day of feeling extreme sense of anger, sadness, lust, hate etc. Sure we are all nice people when we are nice, but I'm sure there are not one person who hasn't had a day when he's done something that he's regretted a ton later. Or not even regretted but just done something very bad. And in the context of being a God without the need to physically go and physically do those things, but where a mere thought is enough to cause your will to happen, how many times we have thought bad things? At the very least we'd have restricted the free will of people during the days we feel good, as we'd probably stop someone doing something we think is bad. How far would we go in restricting the free will?




I think that if we expect God to show himself for us to believe in him, we should expect us to throw a tantrum at him and reject him because we generally seem to believe we are better than him. So, it's better for God to reveal himself in a different way. Or, to say it better, it's better for us to have God revealing himself in a different way. Otherwise we would more likely follow our egos and make ourselves be detached from God forever.

And to be on topic, I think that is what Satan is. Satan is our ego thinking he's too big and shiny to stay in his place, not understanding it is a logical impossibility to take the place of God and not understanding what separation from God really means.

Every argument of this kind can be countered by "god could have created the world in such a way that...". Like, he could have created the world in such a way that we could comprehend him, but he didn't, because he either isn't all-powerful or isn't all-benevolent.
He could have created the world in such a way that we would all believe and obey him of our own free will and thus not go to hell.
He could have created the devil in such a way that he would never betray him.
He could have created our ego in such a way that it just function different and he could do it without robbing us of free will. He could have made us all more like you, who knows your place, instead of more like me, who will burn in hell.

It's literally impossible, given god's powers, for this responsibility not fall on him, and yet, evil is the fault of the devil, who he could have created in such a way to not be the devil. How can a being that is fundamentally flawed, even without picking examples from his own book, be a role model foram anything other than that power is arbitrary and inherently unfair? How such a being has the gall of accusing his own creatures of being what he created them to be?

If god exists, everything is permited. God makes sin impossible and evil meaningless. It is the death of morality.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

As a Christian, I feel like he's the enemy of mankind etc. etc.

But I feel like his most interesting aspect is his relationship with St. Michael. They were supposedly friends before his fall and Michael looked in his eyes and saw only pity before he was cast out of heaven. A truly tragic story.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

As a Christian, I feel like he's the enemy of mankind etc. etc.

But I feel like his most interesting aspect is his relationship with St. Michael. They were supposedly friends before his fall and Michael looked in his eyes and saw only pity before he was cast out of heaven. A truly tragic story.

Where does this show up in? I certainly don't remember it in Revelations, though I haven't read that in many years now.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Ridiculous claims need proof

How do you know science can't explain what you think you saw?

Just because you don't seem to understand what you saw doesn't mean it's demons, ghosts etc..

EDIT; For RoyaleDuke

I messed up the quote.

I'm sorry but as it is, you guys are skeptics. I have no way of convincing you until you, yourself have experienced something supernatural.

That said, there is plenty of evidence out there, but again most people are quick to dismiss actual unaltered video and audio recordings. I myself have captured EVP phenomena, while I don't possess the recordings anymore I can tell you it was very interesting. I captured an intelligent entity that said my full name, and asked me to leave. As for why I don't have the recordings, well my mother is somewhat Pious, and having had supernatural experiences of her own(my father has as well), she doesn't like having stuff like that around. Then again, neither do I, the supernatural and the unknown are quite terrifying.

I have experienced full bodied apparitions and seeing a demon, it's hard to explain what they actually look like, somewhere between something from silent hill and many classical depictions in paintings and scripture except blacker than a pitch dark night in the country. I know one thing, I never wish to feel or see such a terrifying presence ever again. If I go the rest of my days never encountering the supernatural again, I will be very, very happy.

The worst thing was that I could feel it, the hatred, eons of antiquity. The smell of sulfur and brimstone. Being sick to your stomach, and pain like a knife were stabbing you in the gut.

Evil exists. This much I know.

He was also racist af...

Love his stories though.

Yes he was, and towards the end of his life he radically changed his views. In fact, Lovecraft changed his opinions quite often going back and forth on them.

That said I am not defending it, The Horror At Red Hook is probably his weakest story and is a blatant anti-Semitic story. The Rats in The Walls contains a cat named N-word man, named after Lovecraft's real life cat of the same name. So yeah, he was a blatant racist most of his life.

That said, it does not discredit or discount the contribution to science fiction and literature as a whole. And, to an extent much of Lovecraft's world view and fear of the unknown comes from his sheltered life in Providence, Rhode Island and wouldn't be the same without it.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

That said, it does not discredit or discount the contribution to science fiction and literature as a whole. And, to an extent much of Lovecraft's world view and fear of the unknown comes from his sheltered life in Providence, Rhode Island and wouldn't be the same without it.

No it doesn't. I'm just saying it has little bearing on his fiction as does the fact that he was a Christian. Most people were at that time period.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Where does this show up in? I certainly don't remember it in Revelations, though I haven't read that in many years now.

I can't recall in particular. If someone more well versed in theology would like to back me up I'd be grateful, but I remember hearing this from multiple sources years ago and it's stuck with me since.

 

[Robofish]

I'm sorry but as it is, you guys are skeptics. I have no way of convincing you until you, yourself have experienced something supernatural.

That said, there is plenty of evidence out there, but again most people are quick to dismiss actual unaltered video and audio recordings. I myself have captured EVP phenomena, while I don't possess the recordings anymore I can tell you it was very interesting. I captured an intelligent entity that said my full name, and asked me to leave. As for why I don't have the recordings, well my mother is somewhat Pious, and having had supernatural experiences of her own(my father has as well), she doesn't like having stuff like that around. Then again, neither do I, the supernatural and the unknown are quite terrifying.

I have experienced full bodied apparitions and seeing a demon, it's hard to explain what they actually look like, somewhere between something from silent hill and many classical depictions in paintings and scripture except blacker than a pitch dark night in the country. I know one thing, I never wish to feel or see such a terrifying presence ever again. If I go the rest of my days never encountering the supernatural again, I will be very, very happy.

The worst thing was that I could feel it, the hatred, eons of antiquity. The smell of sulfur and brimstone. Being sick to your stomach, and pain like a knife were stabbing you in the gut.

Evil exists. This much I know.

Yes he was, and towards the end of his life he radically changed his views. In fact, Lovecraft changed his opinions quite often going back and forth on them.

That said I am not defending it, The Horror At Red Hook is probably his weakest story and is a blatant anti-Semitic story. The Rats in The Walls contains a cat named N-word man, named after Lovecraft's real life cat of the same name. So yeah, he was a blatant racist most of his life.

That said, it does not discredit or discount the contribution to science fiction and literature as a whole. And, to an extent much of Lovecraft's world view and fear of the unknown comes from his sheltered life in Providence, Rhode Island and wouldn't be the same without it.

http://www.skeptic.com/downloads/why-people-see-ghosts.pdf

It can always be explained.

You are one of many believers who say they had evidence of the paranormal but they threw this so called irrefutable evidence away for some reason.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

http://www.skeptic.com/downloads/why-people-see-ghosts.pdf

It can always be explained.

You are one of many believers who say they had evidence of the paranormal but they threw this so called evidence away for some reason.

The problem is, as a skeptic you are firmly grounded in that there is an impossibility of anything paranormal ever.

Yes, I should have kept the recording, and I should have uploaded it somewhere.

I was once like a lot of you, but, things change. I can't convince you and I won't try too hard, I find it is best for people to come around to these things themselves.

No it doesn't. I'm just saying it has little bearing on his fiction as does the fact that he was a Christian. Most people were at that time period.

I was merely just stating that he was, in case people didn't know.

One misconception I've encountered is that people say Lovecraft was Athiest(I'd say he was more Agnostic than anything, coming from his numerous letters to fellow authors), and sometimes all Science Fiction writers get generalized into this thing where, because they write science fiction, they obviously don't believe in any kind of religion.

Then again, maybe it's just the people I've talked too. Part of why I know and love so much about Lovecraft is because I had to do huge research project on him in high school. I had to do a 10 minute presentation, and a 2500 word or more essay, along with research materials and citing sources.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

I regret voting for him

Spoiler

huehue

On topic, some very sly dude who don't give a fuck

 

[Matty77]

I can't recall in particular. If someone more well versed in theology would like to back me up I'd be grateful, but I remember hearing this from multiple sources years ago and it's stuck with me since.

Don't know where it came from but I can tell you this much, it's not, just like most things in this thread from the actual bible.

 

[ColonialHawk]

I can't recall in particular. If someone more well versed in theology would like to back me up I'd be grateful, but I remember hearing this from multiple sources years ago and it's stuck with me since.

It may be something that came out of Catholicism but there is several mentions of Micheal in the bible. (Jude 1: 8-9)"Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones. 9 But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

Which happens in the OT at the end of exodus i think. Gimme a minute
Edit: Nope sorry I got that wrong. Thats the only mention of that dispute

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I'm sorry but as it is, you guys are skeptics. I have no way of convincing you until you, yourself have experienced something supernatural.

Ah the old "well you will know when you see it" defense. Common among people who claim this nonsense and can't back it up

That said, there is plenty of evidence out there, but again most people are quick to dismiss actual unaltered video and audio recordings.

How do you know they are unaltered, did you test them with the means of detection yourself? or are you just taking baseless claims as proof. Show me a SINGLE video or audio recording of this that you can prove is unaltered.

I myself have captured EVP phenomena,

Oh great, I'll have a copy of that please

while I don't possess the recordings anymore I can tell you it was very interesting. I captured an intelligent entity that said my full name, and asked me to leave. As for why I don't have the recordings, well my mother is somewhat Pious, and having had supernatural experiences of her own(my father has as well), she doesn't like having stuff like that around.

Oh that's convinient, really strange how that happens to be the way all the time.

Then again, neither do I, the supernatural and the unknown are quite terrifying.

Why? Why does the unknown and supernatural have to be terrifying, Why do we never get good ghosts?

I have experienced full bodied apparitions and seeing a demon, it's hard to explain what they actually look like, somewhere between something from silent hill and many classical depictions in paintings and scripture except blacker than a pitch dark night in the country.

Strange that they look like depictions you have seen in other places isn't it? I'm sure those concept artists at konami used the spirit world as reference

I know one thing, I never wish to feel or see such a terrifying presence ever again. If I go the rest of my days never encountering the supernatural again, I will be very, very happy.

Don't worry, I can gaurentee you won't

The worst thing was that I could feel it, the hatred, eons of antiquity.

What did it feel like? I've never felt antiquity.

The smell of sulfur and brimstone.

Strange that is smells like something we associate with hell and not something awesome like since we know hell isn't real since the first mention is in a manuscript from the 4th century lated adapated with MANY changes into the bible which changes based on lanaguage and variant. We would be stupid to take that book as our frame of reference right ?

Evil exists. This much I know.

Spock exists. This much I know

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Can you share the evidence you have against the Adam and Eve story? I'm open to hearing your side.

Like hell you are. xD

I mean are you serious, you're really asking about evidence that the Biblical myth isn't true? How old do you think the Earth is?

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Ah the old "well you will know when you see it" defense. Common among people who claim this nonsense and can't back it up



How do you know they are unaltered, did you test them with the means of detection yourself? or are you just taking baseless claims as proof. Show me a SINGLE video or audio recording of this that you can prove is unaltered.


Oh great, I'll have a copy of that please



Oh that's convinient, really strange how that happens to be the way all the time.


Why? Why does the unknown and supernatural have to be terrifying, Why do we never get good ghosts?



Strange that they look like depictions you have seen in other places isn't it? I'm sure those concept artists at konami used the spirit world as reference



Don't worry, I can gaurentee you won't


What did it feel like? I've never felt antiquity.

Strange that is smells like something we associate with hell and not something awesome manuscript from the 4th century lated adapated with MANY changes into the bible which changes based on lanaguage and variant. We would be stupid to take that book as our frame of reference right ?


Spock exists. This much I know

And all you have are snarky remarks, and your refusal to believe in anything out of the ordinary. I can't convince a skeptic, there are plenty of good sources for stuff like this, in fact the show Ghost Adventures(Which yes, they can't put 20 hours of footage into a show, where largely nothing happens outside of a few voice recordings, and some other odd occurrences) because that is what happens with these things, they have a mind of their own, rules that they play by that we don't really understand.

I am aware that the effects of Electromagnetic Interference can cause hallucinations, anything from exposed wiring or being too close to an electrical box or conduit can do some crazy stuff to your brain. But when there is a regular amount of interference, and suddenly you get spikes in EMI that seemingly move around the room, and wax and wain in strength, and then suddenly disappearing. How in the fuck do you explain that? Especially once you go through and try to debunk it, and you can't find anything that would explain that.

Another thing that is common in haunted places, is unexplained cold spots that move and are anywhere from 20-15 degrees lower than the normal ambient temp in the rest of the room. I've seen this phenomenon measured through a FLIR device as well as a temperature gun.

God is basically quantum mechanics.

Like I said, I can't prove anything to you. And if you read the rest of my post you would know that I don't have the recordings anymore. Then again, I strongly doubt you would believe them even if I had them still.

You are already a 100% confirmed to your beliefs. I can't change you, I could have irrefutable proof, and you would probably sing and dance your way around it.

As to the depiction I wrote as to what I saw, that is as close as I can come to it. They appear as strange and terrifying black humanoid shapes, mist like and almost blurry as if it was constantly moving like smoke. They can mark you, with claw marks in sets of 3 because it is a bastardization of the Holy Trinity. These marks can vary in severity, sometimes appearing as though they were burned in. But I've also seen scratches where they were hardly noticeable, but definitely odd.

At the end of the day, if I'm wrong I lose nothing, if you're wrong you probably lose nothing too.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Oops, new page. Let's see..

Satan + Drugs

I dig him.

Yes \m/

I will say though, you know what Satan's greatest feat is? Convincing the world he doesn't exist.

What a lame as fuck cliché. Comple cop-out too.

I leave this quote from The Call of Cthulhu by HP Lovecraft(which by the way, he was a devout Christian):

Absolutely false. HP Lovecraft was an atheist and a skeptic.

Not that it matters whatsoever but get your facts straight.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft#Religion

Lovecraft himself adopted the stance of atheism early in his life. In 1932 he wrote in a letter to Robert E. Howard: "All I say is that I think it is damned unlikely that anything like a central cosmic will, a spirit world, or an eternal survival of personality exist. They are the most preposterous and unjustified of all the guesses which can be made about the universe, and I am not enough of a hairsplitter to pretend that I don't regard them as arrant and negligible moonshine. In theory I am an agnostic, but pending the appearance of radical evidence I must be classed, practically and provisionally, as an atheist."[63]

No it doesn't. I'm just saying it has little bearing on his fiction as does the fact that he was a Christian. Most people were at that time period.

But he wasn't even a believer at all... not even a deist!

The problem is, as a skeptic you are firmly grounded in that there is an impossibility of anything paranormal ever.

False. Skeptics do not believe in the supernatural because there is no evidence for it. Skeptics are willing to change their mind based on the presence of evidence.

So far, there simply has been no convincing evidence of supernatural phenomena. Moreover, even whenever there are things that "cannot be explained by science", it doesn't mean "God did it". It simply means that we don't know yet, and to assume that "God/Satan did it" and stop researching the answers is a cop-out for the intellectually lazy.

One misconception I've encountered is that people say Lovecraft was Athiest(I'd say he was more Agnostic than anything,[/quot]
WTF? Not only is this not true as the quote above shows, but earlier you stated that he was a "devour Christian" and now you're saying he's agnostic? Wouldn't be the first time a believer blatantly contracdicted himself but geez!

Like I said, I can't prove anything to you. And if you read the rest of my post you would know that I don't have the recordings anymore. Then again, I strongly doubt you would believe them even if I had them still.

You are already a 100% confirmed to your beliefs. I can't change you, I could have irrefutable proof, and you would probably sing and dance your way around it.

You've got it backwards. You are the one who is set in your ways, convinced of supernatural phenomena without concrete evidence, and refuse to admit you could be wrong or that the phenomenon you experienced could be explained through other means.

Skeptics are not "100% confirmed in their beliefs", they are just skeptical of things until they see the evidence.

 

[Trojita]

Royale, mind telling me when you saw the demon and what led up to you seeing it, time of day / what you were doing?

I'm not judging, I'm mildly curious.

 

[Airola]

He could have created the world in such a way that we would all believe and obey him of our own free will and thus not go to hell.
He could have created the devil in such a way that he would never betray him.
He could have created our ego in such a way that it just function different and he could do it without robbing us of free will. He could have made us all more like you, who knows your place, instead of more like me, who will burn in hell.

There are lots of things he could have done. Maybe some things he would have done. But are those things something he absolutely should have done?

Besides, I certainly haven't "known my place" for the most of my life, and I still might not know my place. It's not a matter of what type of persons we've been created as. We all have opportunities to change the way we deal with things. I'm sure there have been people who have had even bigger resentment towards God than what you have, but who still have changed their thinking about God. Using "I was created this way so it's God's fault what I will become" as an argument against God is not good because there are lots of examples of people with all kinds of struggles and problems starting to believe in God - even if that "problem" would just be about scientific thinking making it "impossible" to believe in God.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

False. Skeptics do not believe in the supernatural because there is no evidence for it. Skeptics are willing to change their mind based on the presence of evidence.

So far, there simply has been no convincing evidence of supernatural phenomena. Moreover, even whenever there are things that "cannot be explained by science", it doesn't mean "God did it". It simply means that we don't know yet, and to assume that "God/Satan did it" and stop researching the answers is a cop-out for the intellectually lazy.

One misconception I've encountered is that people say Lovecraft was Athiest(I'd say he was more Agnostic than anything,

WTF? Not only is this not true as the quote above shows, but earlier you stated that he was a "devour Christian" and now you're saying he's agnostic? Wouldn't be the first time a believer blatantly contracdicted himself but geez!

Have you read any of his letters? He talks about religion a lot, he believes to an extent, but as anyone with a scientific mind, has trouble reconciling with the idea of something more. The Lovecraft scholar ST Joshi himself, if I remember correctly has stated in fact that he did believe in God to some degree.

Also, I don't automatically think "God/Satan" did it, I'm merely saying I believe in the supernatural and not that I don't think we should do any research into it, in fact I think there should be more.

Also, I don't understand how what I said is a cop out, just look at this thread. Think for a moment, if all of that stuff exists(God/Satan), and if Satan is the deceiver of all, and hardly anyone believes he's real, I'd say he's succeeded in quite a feat.

EDIT2: Also, I forgot to add that most hauntings can be scientifically explained away, since real hauntings are a very rare thing. I just think it ignorant to never consider that there is something else out there, something intangible. I don't see how I'm close minded, if anything the first thought in my head when something strange happens is "let's use science".

 

[szaromir]

I'm sure there have been people who have had even bigger resentment towards God than what you have, but who still have changed their thinking about God.

I don't think he has resentment towards God, he seems to consider it a man-made concept that he refutes, probably the same way you'd refute the existence of a thunders-throwing Zeus if someone presented it to you.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Have you read any of his letters?

Yes. Have you read the quote I just pasted?

You know, the one where he explicitly says he's an atheist and thinks it foolish to assume there is a divine creator?

He talks about religion a lot,

Different than believing in it.

he believes to an extent, but as anyone with a scientific mind, has trouble reconciling with the idea of something more. The Lovecraft scholar ST Joshi himself, if I remember correctly has stated in fact that he did believe in God to some degree.

Incorrect.

Also, I don't automatically think "God/Satan" did it, I'm merely saying I believe in the supernatural and not that I don't think we should do any research into it, in fact I think there should be more.

It's funny how there's always "more research needed", despite every controlled trial trying to see evidence of supernatural has failed miserably.

Also, I don't understand how what I said is a cop out, just look at this thread. Think for a moment, if all of that stuff exists(God/Satan), and if Satan is the deceiver of all, and hardly anyone believes he's real, I'd say he's succeeded in quite a feat.

It's a meaningless, cliché phrase that means nothing and could be applied to anything you believe in that doesn't exist. It's nothing more than a convenient excuse for Christians to feel smug. "Heh heh you don't believe in him because you were foolishly deceived by Satan himself!". LOL sure whatever y'all say

 

[Starfield]

I can feel him inside me

 

[Astral Dog]

I appreciate the Satanic religion, because it embraces everything that's great and just about the concept of Satan (empowerment of the self but not at the expense of others or the law, etc), and they're just so much more relatable to me than Christian fundies.

how this is Satan though

 

[Sblargh]

There are lots of things he could have done. Maybe some things he would have done. But are those things something he absolutely should have done?

Besides, I certainly haven't "known my place" for the most of my life, and I still might not know my place. It's not a matter of what type of persons we've been created as. We all have opportunities to change the way we deal with things. I'm sure there have been people who have had even bigger resentment towards God than what you have, but who still have changed their thinking about God. Using "I was created this way so it's God's fault what I will become" as an argument against God is not good because there are lots of examples of people with all kinds of struggles and problems starting to believe in God - even if that "problem" would just be about scientific thinking making it "impossible" to believe in God.

If one has the power to create a better world, then yes, he should have done it. My argument is not against god, but against its existence. If god existed the way people who believe in him say he does, then I would be impossible for the reasons I mentioned.
Since I exist, then god is impossible. Since right and wrong exists, then god is impossible because if he existed, all concept of right and wrong would default back to him and not to the actions of his creatures.

 

[Robofish]

And all you have are snarky remarks, and your refusal to believe in anything out of the ordinary. I can't convince a skeptic, there are plenty of good sources for stuff like this, in fact the show Ghost Adventures(Which yes, they can't put 20 hours of footage into a show, where largely nothing happens outside of a few voice recordings, and some other odd occurrences) because that is what happens with these things, they have a mind of their own, rules that they play by that we don't really understand.

I am aware that the effects of Electromagnetic Interference can cause hallucinations, anything from exposed wiring or being too close to an electrical box or conduit can do some crazy stuff to your brain. But when there is a regular amount of interference, and suddenly you get spikes in EMI that seemingly move around the room, and wax and wain in strength, and then suddenly disappearing. How in the fuck do you explain that? Especially once you go through and try to debunk it, and you can't find anything that would explain that.

Another thing that is common in haunted places, is unexplained cold spots that move and are anywhere from 20-15 degrees lower than the normal ambient temp in the rest of the room. I've seen this phenomenon measured through a FLIR device as well as a temperature gun.

God is basically quantum mechanics.

Like I said, I can't prove anything to you. And if you read the rest of my post you would know that I don't have the recordings anymore. Then again, I strongly doubt you would believe them even if I had them still.

You are already a 100% confirmed to your beliefs. I can't change you, I could have irrefutable proof, and you would probably sing and dance your way around it.

As to the depiction I wrote as to what I saw, that is as close as I can come to it. They appear as strange and terrifying black humanoid shapes, mist like and almost blurry as if it was constantly moving like smoke. They can mark you, with claw marks in sets of 3 because it is a bastardization of the Holy Trinity. These marks can vary in severity, sometimes appearing as though they were burned in. But I've also seen scratches where they were hardly noticeable, but definitely odd.

At the end of the day, if I'm wrong I lose nothing, if you're wrong you probably lose nothing too.

This make me think you WANT to hear something so bad you hear something and the rest of us just hears noise and a whole lotta nothing.

Science and logical thinking dances around that.

I'm not picking a fight here it's just i hear you and you are like any other believer out there.

 

[Reckheim]

Yes. Have you read the quote I just pasted?

You know, the one where he explicitly says he's an atheist and thinks it foolish to assume there is a divine creator?


Different than believing in it.

Incorrect.


It's funny how there's always "more research needed", despite every controlled trial trying to see evidence of supernatural has failed miserably.


It's a meaningless, cliché phrase that means nothing and could be applied to anything you believe in that doesn't exist. It's nothing more than a convenient excuse for Christians to feel smug. "Heh heh you don't believe in him because you were foolishly deceived by Satan himself!". LOL sure whatever y'all say

It comes down to this, if the super natural really did exist why hasn't there been a proper scientific study done on it?

I mean there have been billions of money spend on trying to prove that a molecule can exist in two spots at the same time; yet no one is trying to duplicate a scenario where people see the super natural.

If anything multiple dimensional explanation is more credible explanation to seeing things that look supernatural, as opposed to it being credit it to god/satan.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

It comes down to this, if the super natural really did exist why hasn't there been a proper scientific study done on it?

There have been plenty such studies.

They just overwhelmingly have "negative" results. That's not science's fault.

 

[HardRojo]

He befriended Fat Buu and got people to raise their arms for the Genki Dama, he's cool in my book.

 

[Imperfected]

As a hipster, I prefer Ha-Satan, the Adversary, for actually seeming to make sense and be consistent with the ideology he's a part of.

"Lucifer" is a cool concept in isolation but doesn't actually work as a functional component of the theology. Though, he certainly gets mad bonus points for being so thoroughly rad that he had to be retconned in to meet public demand, anyway.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

And all you have are snarky remarks,

Nope, On top of my snarky remakes I've got a recorded history of documented charlatens being shamed and rebuked. I've got evidence that explains and debunks people who claimthe "unexplainable". I've got the fact that montary prizes exist for the proof of ghosts, and the paranormal and not a single one has ever been claimed.

and your refusal to believe in anything out of the ordinary

You mean refusal without a shred of evidence?

I can't convince a skeptic, there are plenty of good sources for stuff like this, in fact the show Ghost Adventures(Which yes, they can't put 20 hours of footage into a show, where largely nothing happens outside of a few voice recordings, and some other odd occurrences) because that is what happens with these things, they have a mind of their own, rules that they play by that we don't really understand.

I don't even know what to tell you at this point. I mean you are using a show wildly debunked and mocked because it's bullshit as a "good source". You have hundreds of youtube videos picking the show apart.

I am aware that the effects of Electromagnetic Interference can cause hallucinations, anything from exposed wiring or being too close to an electrical box or conduit can do some crazy stuff to your brain. But when there is a regular amount of interference, and suddenly you get spikes in EMI that seemingly move around the room, and wax and wain in strength, and then suddenly disappearing. How in the fuck do you explain that? Especially once you go through and try to debunk it, and you can't find anything that would explain that.

Lets say I believed this happened. Firstly how are you certain you accounted for everything that could spike an EMI reading. Secondly why do you believe ghosts or demons are somehow able to alter EMI. Do we have spooky electic ghosts just roaming around for a laugh? Here is a link that serves to debunk EMI readings and sites sources.

Another thing that is common in haunted places, is unexplained cold spots that move and are anywhere from 20-15 degrees lower than the normal ambient temp in the rest of the room. I've seen this phenomenon measured through a FLIR device as well as a temperature gun.

Again let's say I believe this. I can't believe you account for everything including yourself, drafts and convection.

God is basically quantum mechanics.

Id love to know what this means

Like I said, I can't prove anything to you. And if you read the rest of my post you would know that I don't have the recordings anymore. Then again, I strongly doubt you would believe them even if I had them still.

Not being able to prove anything puts you ina weak position. It's funny how NONE of these ghostly events have ever been proven.

You are already a 100% confirmed to your beliefs. I can't change you, I could have irrefutable proof, and you would probably sing and dance your way around it.

You don't know me, I'm not 100% confirmed in any belief. However I value facts over claims without evidence. You can't show a shred of proof, If you could it's very likely we would be having a different discussion.

As to the depiction I wrote as to what I saw, that is as close as I can come to it. They appear as strange and terrifying black humanoid shapes, mist like and almost blurry as if it was constantly moving like smoke

So nothing like anything from silent hill or scriptures?

They can mark you, with claw marks in sets of 3 because it is a bastardization of the Holy Trinity.

Could just be big fans of wolverine.

These marks can vary in severity, sometimes appearing as though they were burned in. But I've also seen scratches where they were hardly noticeable, but definitely odd.

Any evidence or proof of these marks?

At the end of the day, if I'm wrong I lose nothing, if you're wrong you probably lose nothing too.

Actually if we are going to be really pedantic we have lots to lose here. You have your respectability and worth to lose and I have my theories and beliefs of the known world to lose.

 

[AmyS]

I dunno.

 

[_Ryo_]

Speaking of Supernatural shenanigans, me, my mother and my sister experienced an apparition in the window of our old home years ago, it was actually an embodiment of an angelic creature bht you know what? I don't actually believe it was anything supernatural, it was a group hallucination, exacerbated by an extremely superstitious upbringing on the part of my mother, caused by a great deal of stress, created by a death in the family and having to soon move out of the home we'd lived in for years, I can't even remember who died now, dont think it was either my grandfathers as they both died before I was born and my grandmothers died years later.


I was religious back then so of course I went with it being an angel or whatever but with an increased understanding of psychology I realize now that going around labeling things you cant immediately think of a rational explanation for as supernatural is weird.

Mom still believes it though but she also believes she saw a bear walking in the air and I was right beside her and looking in the same direction, there was no air bear. Though to be fair,there are a fuck ton of bears around here for real and are always breaking into garages and stores... Last year I saw more than 5 bears, one was at my sister's house even.

 

[fester]

This make me think you WANT to hear something so bad you hear something and the rest of us just hears noise and a whole lotta nothing.

It's confirmation bias in action, something that runs deep in most Christian circles. I grew up heavily influenced by this kind of thinking. When I finally had it pointed out, it was as if the weight of superstition was lifted and I could live freely, taking life at face value instead of always trying to force situations to match one particular religious view.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Royale, mind telling me when you saw the demon and what led up to you seeing it, time of day / what you were doing?

I'm not judging, I'm mildly curious.

Sure, I've actually typed the story a couple times on here in various paranormal threads that pop up. In my life I've had two overt strange occurrences, both unsettling, both in the same place. For reference this is the place:

Pillar of Fire Church and Westminster College

And just for fun, a local paranormal groups findings, my anecdotal experiences can confirm their experiences minus the demon of course. I can also confirm that I couldn't find any historical records relating to a possible murder at the place, and most people who might've known anything are dead now.

The Story

First of all, this happened when I was younger, around 12 years of age and as to how I actually am familiar with this place(quite intimately really), it is because since I was about seven or eight we had been going there for Cub Scout Day Camp, which they would hold for several weeks in the summer months. I distinctly remember this year, being it was 2002 in the months of great Hayman Fire, the air was so smokey and clogged with the smell of burning refuse and forestland. The distance was like something out of a story from the trenches, the news reels filled with visions of dark smoke and impressive destruction at ground zero.

The summer had been arid and hot beyond belief, the occasional severe storm which would cause us to take shelter in the Church/Castle. This day in particular was quite bad, in fact the maelstrom turned into a funnel cloud and we were ushered through the main halls and into the Fallout Shelter below, this wasn't really a shelter as much as a large storage space for theatrical equipment and apparel, brightly lit. The hallways were a stark white, the floor a grey expanse, around 150ft maybe a little less, maybe a little more. I was with my mother, as she was also my troupe leader and we went about halfway down the hall lining up, and sitting down and getting our arts and crafts all together. We were sat in front of a set of french doors that let into the main storage area. There was all kinds of stuff in there that you could see through the glass panes in the door. Dressing mirrors, clothes on mannequins, there were a group of three naked mannequins in front of the clothed ones, well mostly naked the one on the left had a purple feather boa. I thought was kind of funny at the time, I mean why just the boa? lol.

Anyway, I loose interest in staring at the other room and go back to my arts and crafts(pinewood derby cars! I won second place that year). After awhile, I don't know what possessed me to look up, but I did, I just felt this terrible need. It was right around then that I started to smell those odd aromas, and then I saw it. The figure was tall, taller than the mannequin and it seemed to engulf it, possess it, Pitch Black and humanoid, it seemed like it was almost made of smoke, impossibly thick smoke that seemed to whirl chaotically as the figure seemed to shift ever so slightly as though to appear blurry. It must have been 10 seconds, but it felt like an eternity, and in that eternity I could feel the malice, the hatred, a being of terrible antiquity, it was like every single atom of my being telling me to run, to leave and never come back. I felt sick to my stomach, and there was a terrible burning pain like I've never experienced. Not even Diverticulitis can compare, and that felt like napalm going through my intestines.

I panicked and grabbed and yelled at my mom to look, to look and see if what I was seeing was true. What was it? I didn't think demon. I didn't know what it was, only that it hated me with every fiber of its being. That something deep inside was telling me something was terribly wrong, and to flee.

Of course, when she looked and I looked back, it was gone.

I managed to calm myself down, after my mother asked me to explain what happened. After a long silence, and a strange look on her face that I had not seen since she would tell me about paranormal experiences that she experienced with her friends growing up in Southern California when I was a younger lad.

So, another ten minutes passes, and suddenly down the hall there was screaming and commotion, my mother and I looked up to see what the commotion was. Several of the camp supervisors were trying to calm an absolutely terrified and screaming child. I am fairly hard at hearing but my hearing was a lot better back then, but even then I had to ask my mom what was going on, because the only part I picked up was the kid saying that there was "a monster" somewhere. This kid was pretty young, maybe 6 or 7, my mother got up to go assist them, and I followed being curious, as I walked past the other kids, they were all murmuring about what the other child had screamed. Apparently, he had gone to the bathroom on the second floor and something appeared in the mirror as he was trying to wash his hands. I found out from my mother later that evening, that one of the camp supervisors was actually right outside when it happened and saw the kid screaming and crying and running away at the top of his lungs and at mach speed.

That is the first occurrence, strangely enough I did not encounter this entity, be it devil or manthing, physical manifestation but on several other occasions the smell of sulfur and brimstone, as well as phantom footsteps that sounded like the hulk was bounding down the fucking hallways.

The Second Occurrence

This one I've yet to come up with anything to disprove it scientifically, just like with my previous one.

This happened maybe a year later following another minor encounter that I experienced with an entire room full of people. An Auditorium in fact, located underneath the swimming pool on the top floor. Yes, there is a swimming pool in the building...on the top floor. Crazy I know. I've seen it though. It's neat, very old much like the rest of the building(which is awesome on the inside...if it didn't feel like you were constantly being watched and or followed).

At the end of the day camp season, several troupe leaders and a couple scouts are chosen to help pack things up and put everything into storage. My troupe was selected and since none of the other kids bothered to show up I ended up helping my mom(I was going to help her anyway lol), put stuff away into the large furnace room that also happens to be on the other side of the grand staircase, they have like, two or three, one in the back that leads to the fallout shelter and the furnace room, one in the main hallway....and the third I can't even remember.

The one thing that struck me about this furnace room, and it kind of stuck with me, when you entered the room it was like the life was just sucked out of you, the room was an unsettling pallor of grey, almost unnaturally so... something just felt off. It incredibly unnerving.

What is even more interesting to me, is the main organizer behind the whole day camp was afraid to be alone in the furnace room. She even said to try and get this done as quickly as possible, and she said and I quote "I hate this place," and I always thought that was odd to say so candidly. To date, she'd never said anything about the place, in fact several times on closing days in the years past she would exclaim how nice it is to have this place for Cub Scout Day Camp. There was never a rush to put things away, working at a steady pace. That changed, as did my perceptions of the supernatural that year.

After putting most of what I could lift in the furnace room, my mom told me to take a break, so I sat on the stairs in the central area, inbetween the two staircases leading to the fallout shelter and the furnace. That's when I started hearing slow, loud stomping on the second floor, slowly moving down the hall, into a room and back out. I remember saying "Hello? Is there someone there? Nobody is supposed to be here!", I got to the landing and called out again, creeped a bit up the staircase to the second floor. I remember saying repeating Hello really quietly one last time, and then something came stomping down the hallway, full tilt, stopped right at the corner, and then two legs materialized out of thin air from behind the corner, and stopped at the top of the stairs. It was like it was real, tangible, not ghostly at all; I felt a surge of adrenaline as I began to back away, and then they began to RUN down the stairs towards me.

I ran. I ran like a bloody fucking coward, I ran so fast I could have tapped into the fucking speedforce. My mother and the camp organizer were right on my heels, I collapsed in the parking lot, heaving, an anxiety and fear ridden mess.

There were a couple very minor occurrences(shadow people and a particularly memorable disembodied voice) in the following years, right up until I almost made Eagle Scout.


Anecdotal Evidence

Many years later, probably around 18 I asked my mom about the place, asked her if she remembered the times I freaked out at the place. She asked me to tell her everything, and I did, and then she told me how a lot of times she would hear footsteps, voices whispering in her ear, scratches on her skin, and a genuine feeling of unease and being watched.

I've talked to a few local paranormal groups about this place, and they have amassed some evidence but not anything groundbreaking. A few investigators experienced "attachment", that is when an entity from a haunted place attaches to you, and follows you home, what they said was pretty chilling but not uncommon when investigating sites where something bad happened, or where pagan or satanic rituals or prayer is held in buildings or on property. Magic doesn't exist, at least not in the way we think of it, but if one were to put stock into things like this, it is conceivable that things like that can leave a strong impact.



I didn't just one day knee-jerk reaction "G-G-G-HOSTS SCOOB", I mean really. I came to this shit pretty sensibly and it took me a long time to come to terms with.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

You're 100% correct in saying that someone who claims to be patient, but then shoots someone impatiently for stopping a red light (I'll assume lol) is a liar and is wrong about themselves but I don't see how that has anything to do with how long God has ever waited for people to repent. I haven't actually done the calculations, but from Adam to the flood there was (I want to say) maybe a couple thousand years worth of a gap before everyone was wiped out (Adam alone lived 932 years). Lets say there was a car in front of you at a stoplight and they had the green but weren't moving. Would you wait thousands of years for them? Doubtful. If you can't match God's patience, I don't see how you can judge him for a perceived lack of patient on his part.

Answers are in bold, Correctomundo.



As far as evidence goes, there is some evidence:

1. Manuscripts of the bible that have been found
2. The prophecy that Isreal would return to it's land (that happened it 1948)
3. Romans 2:15 and it's mention of the conscience being from God.
4. Book of Daniel and it's prediction of the four kingdoms (Babylon etc.)
5. 2 Timothy 3:16

There's more but I would need more time to get that to you if you're interested.

You're actually not doomed to hell without a chance of salvation, you just don't find God and his terms appealing.

The bible isn't evidence.

 

[The Boat]

Where does this show up in? I certainly don't remember it in Revelations, though I haven't read that in many years now.

Supernatural, duh!

 

[Robofish]

Sure, I've actually typed the story a couple times on here in various paranormal threads that pop up. In my life I've had two overt strange occurrences, both unsettling, both in the same place. For reference this is the place:

Pillar of Fire Church and Westminster College

And just for fun, a local paranormal groups findings, my anecdotal experiences can confirm their experiences minus the demon of course. I can also confirm that I couldn't find any historical records relating to a possible murder at the place, and most people who might've known anything are dead now.

The Story

First of all, this happened when I was younger, around 12 years of age and as to how I actually am familiar with this place(quite intimately really), it is because since I was about seven or eight we had been going there for Cub Scout Day Camp, which they would hold for several weeks in the summer months. I distinctly remember this year, being it was 2002 in the months of great Hayman Fire, the air was so smokey and clogged with the smell of burning refuse and forestland. The distance was like something out of a story from the trenches, the news reels filled with visions of dark smoke and impressive destruction at ground zero.

The summer had been arid and hot beyond belief, the occasional severe storm which would cause us to take shelter in the Church/Castle. This day in particular was quite bad, in fact the maelstrom turned into a funnel cloud and we were ushered through the main halls and into the Fallout Shelter below, this wasn't really a shelter as much as a large storage space for theatrical equipment and apparel, brightly lit. The hallways were a stark white, the floor a grey expanse, around 150ft maybe a little less, maybe a little more. I was with my mother, as she was also my troupe leader and we went about halfway down the hall lining up, and sitting down and getting our arts and crafts all together. We were sat in front of a set of french doors that let into the main storage area. There was all kinds of stuff in there that you could see through the glass panes in the door. Dressing mirrors, clothes on mannequins, there were a group of three naked mannequins in front of the clothed ones, well mostly naked the one on the left had a purple feather boa. I thought was kind of funny at the time, I mean why just the boa? lol.

Anyway, I loose interest in staring at the other room and go back to my arts and crafts(pinewood derby cars! I won second place that year). After awhile, I don't know what possessed me to look up, but I did, I just felt this terrible need. It was right around then that I started to smell those odd aromas, and then I saw it. The figure was tall, taller than the mannequin and it seemed to engulf it, possess it, Pitch Black and humanoid, it seemed like it was almost made of smoke, impossibly thick smoke that seemed to whirl chaotically as the figure seemed to shift ever so slightly as though to appear blurry. It must have been 10 seconds, but it felt like an eternity, and in that eternity I could feel the malice, the hatred, a being of terrible antiquity, it was like every single atom of my being telling me to run, to leave and never come back. I felt sick to my stomach, and there was a terrible burning pain like I've never experienced. Not even Diverticulitis can compare, and that felt like napalm going through my intestines.

I panicked and grabbed and yelled at my mom to look, to look and see if what I was seeing was true. What was it? I didn't think demon. I didn't know what it was, only that it hated me with every fiber of its being. That something deep inside was telling me something was terribly wrong, and to flee.

Of course, when she looked and I looked back, it was gone.

I managed to calm myself down, after my mother asked me to explain what happened. After a long silence, and a strange look on her face that I had not seen since she would tell me about paranormal experiences that she experienced with her friends growing up in Southern California when I was a younger lad.

So, another ten minutes passes, and suddenly down the hall there was screaming and commotion, my mother and I looked up to see what the commotion was. Several of the camp supervisors were trying to calm an absolutely terrified and screaming child. I am fairly hard at hearing but my hearing was a lot better back then, but even then I had to ask my mom what was going on, because the only part I picked up was the kid saying that there was "a monster" somewhere. This kid was pretty young, maybe 6 or 7, my mother got up to go assist them, and I followed being curious, as I walked past the other kids, they were all murmuring about what the other child had screamed. Apparently, he had gone to the bathroom on the second floor and something appeared in the mirror as he was trying to wash his hands. I found out from my mother later that evening, that one of the camp supervisors was actually right outside when it happened and saw the kid screaming and crying and running away at the top of his lungs and at mach speed.

That is the first occurrence, strangely enough I did not encounter this entity, be it devil or manthing, physical manifestation but on several other occasions the smell of sulfur and brimstone, as well as phantom footsteps that sounded like the hulk was bounding down the fucking hallways.

The Second Occurrence

This one I've yet to come up with anything to disprove it scientifically, just like with my previous one.

This happened maybe a year later following another minor encounter that I experienced with an entire room full of people. An Auditorium in fact, located underneath the swimming pool on the top floor. Yes, there is a swimming pool in the building...on the top floor. Crazy I know. I've seen it though. It's neat, very old much like the rest of the building(which is awesome on the inside...if it didn't feel like you were constantly being watched and or followed).

At the end of the day camp season, several troupe leaders and a couple scouts are chosen to help pack things up and put everything into storage. My troupe was selected and since none of the other kids bothered to show up I ended up helping my mom(I was going to help her anyway lol), put stuff away into the large furnace room that also happens to be on the other side of the grand staircase, they have like, two or three, one in the back that leads to the fallout shelter and the furnace room, one in the main hallway....and the third I can't even remember.

The one thing that struck me about this furnace room, and it kind of stuck with me, when you entered the room it was like the life was just sucked out of you, the room was an unsettling pallor of grey, almost unnaturally so... something just felt off. It incredibly unnerving.

What is even more interesting to me, is the main organizer behind the whole day camp was afraid to be alone in the furnace room. She even said to try and get this done as quickly as possible, and she said and I quote "I hate this place," and I always thought that was odd to say so candidly. To date, she'd never said anything about the place, in fact several times on closing days in the years past she would exclaim how nice it is to have this place for Cub Scout Day Camp. There was never a rush to put things away, working at a steady pace. That changed, as did my perceptions of the supernatural that year.

After putting most of what I could lift in the furnace room, my mom told me to take a break, so I sat on the stairs in the central area, inbetween the two staircases leading to the fallout shelter and the furnace. That's when I started hearing slow, loud stomping on the second floor, slowly moving down the hall, into a room and back out. I remember saying "Hello? Is there someone there? Nobody is supposed to be here!", I got to the landing and called out again, creeped a bit up the staircase to the second floor. I remember saying repeating Hello really quietly one last time, and then something came stomping down the hallway, full tilt, stopped right at the corner, and then two legs materialized out of thin air from behind the corner, and stopped at the top of the stairs. It was like it was real, tangible, not ghostly at all; I felt a surge of adrenaline as I began to back away, and then they began to RUN down the stairs towards me.

I ran. I ran like a bloody fucking coward, I ran so fast I could have tapped into the fucking speedforce. My mother and the camp organizer were right on my heels, I collapsed in the parking lot, heaving, an anxiety and fear ridden mess.

There were a couple very minor occurrences(shadow people and a particularly memorable disembodied voice) in the following years, right up until I almost made Eagle Scout.


Anecdotal Evidence

Many years later, probably around 18 I asked my mom about the place, asked her if she remembered the times I freaked out at the place. She asked me to tell her everything, and I did, and then she told me how a lot of times she would hear footsteps, voices whispering in her ear, scratches on her skin, and a genuine feeling of unease and being watched.

I've talked to a few local paranormal groups about this place, and they have amassed some evidence but not anything groundbreaking. A few investigators experienced "attachment", that is when an entity from a haunted place attaches to you, and follows you home, what they said was pretty chilling but not uncommon when investigating sites where something bad happened, or where pagan or satanic rituals or prayer is held in buildings or on property. Magic doesn't exist, at least not in the way we think of it, but if one were to put stock into things like this, it is conceivable that things like that can leave a strong impact.



I didn't just one day knee-jerk reaction "G-G-G-HOSTS SCOOB", I mean really. I came to this shit pretty sensibly and it took me a long time to come to terms with.

On your first story: a kid, 12 years old, seeing something he can't explain... Must be paranormal then

Second story: Hearing a older person as a 13 year old saying she is scared to go into a room, the kid already convinced of evil.. Yeah, the 13 year old kid's mind is going apeshit...

 

[Reversed]

Looks alright. Titty Satan needed to vacate.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

On your first story: a kid, 12 years old, seeing something he can't explain... Must be paranormal then

Second story: Hearing a older person as a 13 year old saying she is scared to go into a room, the kid already convinced of evil.. Yeah, the 13 year old kid's mind is going apeshit...

Hey man, whatever if you want to find every little thing to try to discredit my belief that's fine. I don't care, I posted the story because someone asked me to.

Just because I was twelve and thirteen, does not discredit me in the least. Up to that point in time, and even after it I wasn't a believer.

That changed right around when I turned 18, started doing research, talking to people.

I tend to be someone that is very open minded about things, I mean I know it seems like I care about this a lot(I don't really), it is a topic I do enjoy discussing however.

I mean I get where you guys are coming from, I really do, I used to think like you, and you know sometimes I still question it. There is always that doubt, that disbelief.

My faith in God is resolute, but in my day to day life I try to be open and sensible, loving and accepting to all. In fact, one of my best friends is a Satanist, I don't really care he is working for or rooting for the other team, I wish him well and value him as a friend. I also don't believe in converting people, as I feel that faith and God are something that people should choose and come around to in their own way.

Out of curiosity, who are the most fraudulent paranormal researchers? Surely, not the Warrens. Although, that has been a contested hot topic for many years. I will admit, some of their stories seem a bit unbelievable, and who knows, they might very well be.

Tell me, are you familiar with Bobby Mackey's Music World? Quite an interesting case.

 

[Namikaze]

The bible isn't evidence.

According to God, it is. Check out 2 Timothy 3:16. Scripture is the way that God has chosen to reveal himself during this age. Also, there's an interesting story in the NT about a rich man who lived for himself and ate/drank to his hearts content while avoiding the poor (specifically, a man named Lazarus). By the end of the story, he was in torment asking for a drop of water to cool his tounge and he was rejected. He then asked Abraham in heaven to send a dead prophet to warn his brothers.

Luke 16:30-31;"'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

God has given people everything they need to believe. At some point it takes faith to believe any of the bible is possible.

Like hell you are. xD

I mean are you serious, you're really asking about evidence that the Biblical myth isn't true? How old do you think the Earth is?

I'm not 100% sure to be honest. I honestly think it takes faith to believe that the earth is either old or young; how do we know that the dating methods we use today weren't disrupted by the flood for example? But I wasn't lying when I said I want to hear the other side of the story. If you have any links to share or any opinion to share w/ me, I'll read it and check it out for myself.

 

[The Boat]

According to God, it is. Check out 2 Timothy 3:16. Scripture is the way that God has chosen to reveal himself during this age. Also, there's an interesting story in the NT about a rich man who lived for himself and ate/drank to his hearts content while avoiding the poor (specifically, a man named Lazarus). By the end of the story, he was in torment asking for a drop of water and asking God to send a dead prophet to warn his brothers

This logic is so circular I'm getting dizzy. Not surprising of course, it always boils down to this.

I'm not 100% sure to be honest. I honestly think it takes faith to believe that the earth is either old or young; how do we know that the dating methods we use today weren't disrupted by the flood for example? But I wasn't lying when I said I want to hear the other side of the story. If you have any links to share or any opinion to share w/ me, I'll read it and check it out for myself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
You really, really need to read up on this, because you are severely misinformed.

 

[Gnome Scat]

Eh cool I guess.

 

[Zero²]

My image of the devil is more of the darkness within us. It always take the form of what we have less pride of and uses against us.
Then again I don't know if it really exists, just a feeling I have sometimes.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

According to God, it is. Check out 2 Timothy 3:16. Scripture is the way that God has chosen to reveal himself during this age. Also, there's an interesting story in the NT about a rich man who lived for himself and ate/drank to his hearts content while avoiding the poor (specifically, a man named Lazarus). By the end of the story, he was in torment asking for a drop of water and asking God to send a dead prophet to warn his brothers

The only evidence of God is the Bible you cant use God to prove the Bible and the Bible to prove God.

It's like this


I believe that unicorns are real here I have this book that unicorns give to us that says unicorns are real and if it's in the book it must be true. How do I know the book is true. The unicorns said it was. How do I know unicorns are real well the book says so.

 

[Robofish]

Hey man, whatever if you want to find every little thing to try to discredit my belief that's fine. I don't care, I posted the story because someone asked me to.

Just because I was twelve and thirteen, does not discredit me in the least. Up to that point in time, and even after it I wasn't a believer.

That changed right around when I turned 18, started doing research, talking to people.

I tend to be someone that is very open minded about things, I mean I know it seems like I care about this a lot(I don't really), it is a topic I do enjoy discussing however.

I mean I get where you guys are coming from, I really do, I used to think like you, and you know sometimes I still question it. There is always that doubt, that disbelief.

My faith in God is resolute, but in my day to day life I try to be open and sensible, loving and accepting to all. In fact, one of my best friends is a Satanist, I don't really care he is working for or rooting for the other team, I wish him well and value him as a friend. I also don't believe in converting people, as I feel that faith and God are something that people should choose and come around to in their own way.

Out of curiosity, who are the most fraudulent paranormal researchers? Surely, not the Warrens. Although, that has been a contested hot topic for many years. I will admit, some of their stories seem a bit unbelievable, and who knows, they might very well be.

Tell me, are you familiar with Bobby Mackey's Music World? Quite an interesting case.

I'm sorry to say that the warrens are beeing seen as a fraud by everyone including the paranormal community.

Here for starters is an interview by the skeptics guide:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/hunting-the-ghost-hunters/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ4uBqdLaXI

http://doubtfulnews.com/2015/04/hau...ys-music-world-fails-to-stand-up-to-scrutiny/

There are so many debunking video's of paranormal researchers. Just check youtube and pick one.

But please don't pick a ghostbusting show as a source of evidence of the paranormal like you did before.

Remember that i don't want to attack you nor do i want to convert you. You have made up your mind and i know that.

 

[szaromir]

I'm not 100% sure to be honest. I honestly think it takes faith to believe that the earth is either old or young; how do we know that the dating methods we use today weren't disrupted by the flood for example?

Do you know what radioactivity and half-life of a radioactive element are? If yes, wikipedia has an excellent article that would inform you how we've arrived at the estimations of the age of the Earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
Global flood (which never occurred since there's not enough water on Earth to cover the entire surface of the planet and there's no evidence thereof) could not have possibly affected those measurements even if it had happened.

 

[Namikaze]

This logic is so circular I'm getting dizzy. Not surprising of course, it always boils down to this.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_Earth
You really, really need to read up on this, because you are severely misinformed.

It pretty much does boil down to that. The Holy Spirit brings conviction of sin so that mankind will repent and trust in Christ, it's not a matter of having the information outside of the bible that you think you need to believe. You either find yourself guilty before God according to the way he's chosen to reveal himself, or you reject him and think he's too restrictive/evil.

I will definitely read that link and look into it some more, thanks.