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How does Aaron Greenberg(MS) say this with a straight face?

D3VI0US said:
65 nm means a drop is should be coming. MS tactics to ensure profitability can hurt them in the long run, the opportunity they have to take marketshare and maybe even win this gen are slipping away. Shoddy hardware, overpriced add on accessories, no next gen disc drive, charging for online, meager retro software downloads. Those are all big strikes against them and as time goes on it makes the 360 look less attractive. PS3 on the other hand is very open. You can use Blutooth accessories, off the shelf HDDs, USB thumbdrives, all sorts of other flash media, free online, web browsing, etc. However the biggest long term advantage Sony has is Blu Ray and it's an advantage MS can somewhat counter with Video Marketplace and IPTV but not really.
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holy shit, somebody give this guy an SDF badge!
 
WickedAngel said:
Fun Fact; Most people couldn't differentiate between a laptop HDD and a standard 3.5", let alone being able to order one from that while specifying the type of data transfer cable to be used in conjunction with the motherboard.

You're not being realistic here. You're applying your own knowledge to all. We are not the status quo.
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that's true, but it still doesn't justify the outrageous price of an HDD. They talk about MS hard drives running at specific specs (for quality??), but my 120GB Toshiba is doing just fine which I got for $120CAD six months ago. Wow, just checked the store I bought it from, 160GB Western Digital for $130CAD.


Let's assume a scenario where both consoles allowed you to install your own:

You buy a 360/PS3, READ THE MANUAL, and replace the hard drive. Now we're boiling it down to the fact that people can't read manuals for a $400 or $600 item?
 
DarienA said:
It's because you're getting that "a" functionality according to a back and forth modus and I had a bit back IIRC.... I'll refrain from commenting more than that this time on it.
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In the back of my mind, I always kind of assumed that was at least partially responsible for the inflated cost. But I'd argue that anyone needing 802.11a, presumably for the video streaming, wouldn't trust such an intensive process to wireless anyway.

(I know I wouldn't.)
 
the hard drive is not the main issue, the main probleme is microsoft telling you we give you the choice but you can only use a hd sold by microsoft...:lol
 
YYZ said:
that's true, but it still doesn't justify the outrageous price of an HDD. They talk about MS hard drives running at specific specs (for quality??), but my 120GB Toshiba is doing just fine which I got for $120CAD six months ago. Wow, just checked the store I bought it from, 160GB Western Digital for $130CAD.


Let's assume a scenario where both consoles allowed you to install your own:

You buy a 360/PS3, READ THE MANUAL, and replace the hard drive. Now we're boiling it down to the fact that people can't read manuals for a $400 or $600 item?
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, I don't advocate the price. I mentioned it earlier but I thought it would be wise to repeat it.

As far as manuals go...no, I don't believe many people actually take the time to read the manuals after facing some of the questions that I've faced over the years in regards to consumer electronics.
 
I would Love to see a choice with MS selling "premade" hard drives for the tech illiterate, and a empty carrier (add your own) for the rest of us.But I saw one of them disassembled and it's not really designed to be opened,although I'm sure they could do it. considering how last gen,(with the Xbox) a bad HD REQUIRED you to ship the whole damm system out for repair, I think having a user replaceable HD isn't a bad design choice, but I do think it's a tad overpriced.For large Households this way is FAR better than a PS3, say you have 2 systems(1 in the living room and one in a bedroom) buy 1 system with a HD and a core, basically you are getting 2 fully functional systems for 100-179 more than one PS3.Also if you have kids buy them a core and if they misbehave just take away the HD(and beat them with a brush):) .
 
Tobor said:
Read the link again. It's $89 to install a hard drive at the store.
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I did read the link. Why are you ignoring the "Geek Squad Precinct" column for pricing?

You can spin this any way you want, but expecting your customers to be smart enough to install hard drives is ludicrous.
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You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about expecting everyone to be smart enough to install a hard drive. Making the process idiot proof for people like that doesn't have to involve imposing a hefty convenience fee on everyone else.
 
kaching said:
I did read the link. Why are you ignoring the "Geek Squad Precinct" column for pricing?

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about expecting everyone to be smart enough to install a hard drive. Making the process idiot proof for people like that doesn't have to involve imposing a hefty convenience fee on everyone else.
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Ok. you are correct about the Geek Squad price. I figured "store" meant Best Buy, when in actuality, "precinct" does. So lets go with 39.99. This is the closest thing to the Xbox 120GB you can buy at Best Buy. A 100 GB notebook drive. It costs 129.99.

129.99 + 39.99 = $170. you save $10 and lose 20 GB. You have to give your system to Geek Squad, and this is assuming they will even do the repair in the first place. Or you can buy the new drive from MS, slap it on and go. Which sounds more appealing?

As for the "convenience fee", it's not being imposed on anyone. If it is not a good value to you, don't buy it.
 
I do wish the guy had asked a follow-up question. The 120 GB drive is overpriced, but not nearly to the same degree as the other 360 accessories. How about that 20 GB drive? The 512 memory card? The wireless adapter?

By comparison, the 120 GB drive is a steal, in terms of cost:value.
 
Tobor said:
Read the link again. It's $89 to install a hard drive at the store. Hard drive not included of course. (They also charge $129 to install an OS. How awesome is that?)

You can spin this any way you want, but expecting your customers to be smart enough to install hard drives is ludicrous. MS's solution might be more expensive, but it's elegant and idiot proof.
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This would be a valid excuse if the HDD carried, say, a $20 markup.


If people can figure out what kind of memory card they need to put in their PSPs and Wiis, they can figure out what kind of HDD they need in their console. All it takes is some clear labeling.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I do wish the guy had asked a follow-up question. The 120 GB drive is overpriced, but not nearly to the same degree as the other 360 accessories. How about that 20 GB drive? The 512 memory card? The wireless adapter?

By comparison, the 120 GB drive is a steal, in terms of cost:value.
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...
 
bishoptl said:
if I shtup you with lube instead of going in dry, you're still getting shtupped, my friend
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I agree with you - that's why I've been saying it's over-priced, repeatedly. My point was, he spent a lot of effort explaining the price (when these guys are dispatched to explain the price, you know it's too high). I'd love to hear him take a crack at explaining the 20 gig model pricing. You know, for kicks.
 
Me too. After a few years, I realized that Jim was never going to pay me.

:(

Let's get drunk together over the internets and commiserate.
 
GhaleonEB said:
I do wish the guy had asked a follow-up question. The 120 GB drive is overpriced, but not nearly to the same degree as the other 360 accessories. How about that 20 GB drive? The 512 memory card? The wireless adapter?

By comparison, the 120 GB drive is a steal, in terms of cost:value.
Click to expand...


Oh man, dont get me started on that bullshit. Main reason I'm not playing on Live right now is the price of that goddamned wireless adapter.
 
Kintaro said:
Oh man, dont get me started on that bullshit. Main reason I'm not playing on Live right now is the price of that goddamned wireless adapter.
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I'm sure there must some cheaper 3rd-party alternative somewhere.
 
Anyone who spends 180 dollars on a hard drive is foolish

Anyone who spends 480 dollars on a system that uses the same unreliable parts/chips/cooling solution as current systems is even more foolish.
 
D3VI0US said:
65 nm means a drop is should be coming. MS tactics to ensure profitability can hurt them in the long run, the opportunity they have to take marketshare and maybe even win this gen are slipping away. Shoddy hardware, overpriced add on accessories, no next gen disc drive, charging for online, meager retro software downloads. Those are all big strikes against them and as time goes on it makes the 360 look less attractive. PS3 on the other hand is very open. You can use Blutooth accessories, off the shelf HDDs, USB thumbdrives, all sorts of other flash media, free online, web browsing, etc. However the biggest long term advantage Sony has is Blu Ray and it's an advantage MS can somewhat counter with Video Marketplace and IPTV but not really.
Click to expand...


I am sorry but you are missing the fact that people may be satisfied with xbox live arcade releases, and may have no problem paying for live as long as it has some quality standards,
and most of all, what you say is the "biggest advantage" is actually no advantage.

its really old news, but you may want to read what bethesda said about bluray.. (not any different that ANYONE will say)
* much slower than dvd
* needs data to be doublicated across the disk to catchup bad seek times (so much for extra space usage)
* and oblivion still needs a good 4.6gb on the hard disk to play.

I really dont see any advantage on games console with bluray. you can talk about MOVIES if you like, but you should keep your head clean when you are talking about "console marketshare" and mistakes.
like for me, the bluray is the mistake here.
 
PR people are paid to spin things. I have no problem with that really - it's their job.

What I would like to say is a big "f*ck you" to the assholes in this thread trying to convince me why it's justified that I should pay $180 for this HDD.

Are you idiots getting paid? As a consumer the HDD price is a rip-off - end of story - don't give me some bullshit PR type answers - leave that to the guys who get paid for it.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Why the elipses? The 120 GB is $1.50/gig. The 20 GB is $5/gig. The 120 is over-priced, while the latter is lunacy.
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they purposely set up that propositon to make the 120gb look like a steal
 
m0dus said:
Hell, half the people in this thread have shown they're oblvious to the difference between 2.5' laptop, 3.5' desktop, IDE and SATA, to say nothing of the general consumer.
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That's one hell of a lesson; ordering a 2.5" 60GB SATA drive to replace the one in your laptop when you find out what you need is PATA (IDE).

m0dus said:
Another thought that gave me pause today--I realized, why have we not seen gamestop or EB stocking larger SATA harddrives for the PS3? It seems like it would be a no-brainer, as far as accessories go. I sure as hell would push it on someone, if I were behind the counter. It is possible that they don't see a profit potential, because of the work / skill involved in unscrewing the machine and replacing the HDD. Has anyone heard news of them offering something like this?
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They could just sell 60GB external HDDs... which work perfectly on the PS3. I already bought a 5400rpm 60GB drive for $45 and an enclosure for $14 (the same one that was to replace my laptop drive). The PS3 has so many options for memory (cheap ones at that), it's still surprising to see such a large price for this HDD Microsoft is offering. Still... it's expected seeing the cost of their other first party accesories.

I wonder if they will lower the price of the 20GB. That would be retarded if they left it at the price it's at...
 
m0dus said:
as far as your edit:

"“We know it is expensive and we have definitely heard that feedback but it is a little apples and oranges to compare it to internal PC hard drives because those are off the shelf drives that you have to install yourself. You have to format those and figure out how you are going to move your content over. There is a lot of work there for your average consumer it is not a plug in and play experience for them."

Is there any aspect of the bolded portion that is a boldfaced lie?
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Just curious, how do you move your content from the 20GB harddrive to the 120GB harddrive?
 
Gattsu25 said:
Just curious, how do you move your content from the 20GB harddrive to the 120GB harddrive?
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There is a cable that is included with the 120GB hard drive. MS is currently working on a solution for those who already have an X360 and choose to buy an Elite.
 
DenogginizerOS said:
There is a cable that is included with the 120GB hard drive. MS is currently working on a solution for those who already have an X360 and choose to buy an Elite.
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seems reasonable enough to me.

the 120GB harddrive is a good price considering it's a videogame accessory, IMO. Remember: we're used to paying $25 for 8MB of memory, $60 for a full Wii controller (remote+nunchuck), and $100 for a 20GB harddrive.
 
A friend of mine yesterday told me to just start another hobby and give up gaming if I am unhappy with the pricing of peripherals because he vehemently stated that this is the direction the industry is going. He is right in that this is the direction the industry is going. But I think that this move is bad for Microsoft because it essentially gives pause to those who may have been considering jumping in because now they are uncertain if the Premium is all they will need or if they should spring for the extra $80 and just get an Elite. Buying a Premium at $400 and then realizing in the short term that you need the 120GB hard drive will be a $100 oversight for the consumer.
 
DenogginizerOS said:
A friend of mine yesterday told me to just start another hobby and give up gaming if I am unhappy with the pricing of peripherals because he vehemently stated that this is the direction the industry is going. He is right in that this is the direction the industry is going. But I think that this move is bad for Microsoft because it essentially gives pause to those who may have been considering jumping in because now they are uncertain if the Premium is all they will need or if they should spring for the extra $80 and just get an Elite. Buying a Premium at $400 and then realizing in the short term that you need the 120GB hard drive will be a $100 oversight for the consumer.
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I wouldnt go so far as to 'find another hobby'... I'm definitely scaling back what I buy though. Most of this stuff simply isn't worth the money I'm putting into it. $60 games that last a weekend, $400 systems that break if you look at them wrong, $180 for a freakin 120 GB HDD, etc. Might as well go back to PC gaming... :lol
 
JB1981 said:
i thought the same thing, but then i wanted to download braveheart in HD last night and the frickin' file was over 7GB!

The "20GB hdd" is really only 14GB so if you want to download a movie such as Braveheart, you basically have to clear out your HDD beforehand. Retarded.
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Braveheart would be there temporarily anyways.

I got 13 gigs stored on mine and that mostly contains XBL Arcade games. Saves from games are small, so that isn't a big deal.
 
Gattsu25 said:
seems reasonable enough to me.

the 120GB harddrive is a good price considering it's a videogame accessory, IMO. Remember: we're used to paying $25 for 8MB of memory, $60 for a full Wii controller (remote+nunchuck), and $100 for a 20GB harddrive.
Click to expand...

But the thing is those things are overpriced, but they don't cost $180. It's nearly half the cost of the premium system. This drive will be about as popular as the ps2 HD, sega 32x, etc. I just hope this elite model and drive doesn't delay price drops and hardware revisions to improve reliability.
 
GhaleonEB said:
“We do hear consumers but we pay a premium for these drives. That’s just the nature of it. If you started with the core $299 SKU, everything we have done is based on adding storage. If you had the $100 hard drive that gets you to $399. If you added the $179 hard drive to the $299 SKU that gets you to $479 which is the Elite SKU so there is consistency in the way we think about this.”
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sweet!

$219 Core $319 Premium $399 elite confirmed! :D

first price drop


oh and comparing this self-contained pop-in/pop-out drive to a standard OEM part is beyond ridiculous.

It's MAYBE $15-$20 overpriced ATM.
 
Shamrock said:
Anyone who spends 180 dollars on a hard drive is foolish

Anyone who spends 480 dollars on a system that uses the same unreliable parts/chips/cooling solution as current systems is even more foolish.
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QFT.

And it's a shame that MS has a stranglehold on all their peripherals. Why not make it easier for other 3rd parties to jump in too?
 
KTallguy said:
QFT.

And it's a shame that MS has a stranglehold on all their peripherals. Why not make it easier for other 3rd parties to jump in too?
Click to expand...


for the same reason there's no third party wiimote or nunchuck? or no third party ps3 memory card reader or remote control? that's where the $$$$ is for these companies.
 
Klocker said:
sweet!

$219 Core $319 Premium $399 elite confirmed! :D

first price drop
Click to expand...


More likely Microsoft is looking at the iPod model: don't drop prices, add value.

The entertainment division in Microsoft took a big hit with the Zune. They're pushing the 360 forward to gain profitability over the next few quarters, so a real price drop is unlikely.
 
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