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[Imp the Dimp]

Bashing Diablo 3 has gotten a bit old, I know. I only ever played the release version for like a month or two (160h, so it wasn't all bad) but as a huge D2 fan the game lacked primarily one thing: depth. It lacked a ton of mechanics from D2 and was just surprisingly shallow overall in 2012. Me along with all my friends stopped playing and never looked back despite the year long anticipation.

Anyway, I heard D3 is in a good spot lately which is nice. Path of Exile received a big update a few weeks ago which caught my attention so I gave it at try and frankly, I'm blown away by how good it is. It is exactly what I expected D3 to be with ridiculous depth to its mechanics. Just about every mechanic in the game has multiple layers and the amount of viable builds, items and so forth is amazing from what I can tell one playthrough in.

Vanilla D3 didn't even have rune sockets and runes if I remember correctly. It was a PC game that felt like having been developed with the CoD dudebro crowd in mind which was insanely disappointing back then. So how's it today?

 

[MGrant]

Its combat mechanics are fairly deep for a game of its type, and its loot mechanics have gotten both more forgiving and more complex, but I turned away from the game when I realized the difficulty just wasn't there beyond throwing higher hp, higher damage monsters at you as you run on a treadmill to the best loot. Last time I played was around the beginning of season 2.

Even Hardcore mode couldn't hold me for more than 20 hours or so. They nerfed the monster affixes to the point that they were seldom a threat, which made survivability a distant concern. Character builds were mostly limited to set or legendary item builds, with your stat and paragon point allocation decisions being negligible. I miss runewords and skill trees and charms and very rare respecs and all the other choices you could make in Diablo 2 that made your character feel more like something you had created, rather than simply obtained through loot drops.

 

[Gothos]

Diablo 3 - puddle. Path of Exile - ocean.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I know you're asking about Diablo 3 and Path of Exile, but have you looked into Grim Dawn at all? Same genre of game.

 

[BashNasty]

Diablo 3 - puddle. Path of Exile - ocean.

Diablo III core gameplay - deeply satisfying. Path of Exile core gameplay - deeply lacking.

 

[Shari]

Diablo 3 - puddle. Path of Exile - ocean.

Diablo III core gameplay - deeply satisfying. Path of Exile core gameplay - deeply lacking.

I agree with both of those statements.

I know you're asking about Diablo 3 and Path of Exile, but have you looked into Grim Dawn at all? Same genre of game.

This falls under the same category as Path of Exile, very large depth in terms of numbers but shallow gameplay.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

This falls under the same category as Path of Exile, very large depth in terms of numbers but shallow gameplay.

I haven't played Diablo 3, but what makes its gameplay deep in comparison? Seems like the run-of-the-mill ARPG-hack-n-slash-dungeon-craler game like most Diablo and Diablo-clones.

 

[MekaDragon]

Path of Exile is really deep, and with every (free) expansion it goes deeper and better.

I don't think comparing both games makes any sense, Diablo III is "my first ARPG" compared to PoE.

PoE was made by fans for fans. Diablo III didn't.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I'll have to go back to Path of Exile post update, but as a fan of the genre, I found it dull. The combat felt so underwhelming I couldn't maintain interest beyond the opening section.

Diablo 3 on the other hand is a blast to play. Love it. But I think Grim Dawn Eclipses it. Most importantly, the combat feels great. And if you like loot...this games got loads of it.

 

[Shari]

I haven't played Diablo 3, but what makes its gameplay deep in comparison? Seems like the run-of-the-mill ARPG-hack-n-slash-dungeon-craler game like most Diablo and Diablo-clones.

Maybe shallow is not the correct terms as the opposite would be deep, indeed. It's more like Diablo 3 gameplay feels way more satisfying or impactful than the other two. Hard to describe.

 

[Durante]

Diablo III core gameplay - deeply satisfying. Path of Exile core gameplay - deeply lacking.

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

(Edit: I should also mention that I haven't played D3 since the months following its launch)

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Maybe shallow is not the correct terms as the opposite would be deep, indeed. It's more like Diablo 3 gameplay feels way more satisfying or impactful than the other two. Hard to describe.

Oh. In that case that's praise I hear frequently about D3. That the impact feels more responsive visually and aurally and nothing else has really matched that satisfaction.

I favor making and testing different character builds. Basically what Durante mentioned above. I think both PoE and Grim Dawn offer a large breath of character customization. Though I favor GD overall because its classes are more defined whereas PoE just lets you branch wherever you want (or at least it did the last time I played it 2 years ago). Again, haven't played D3 yet, so can't say how it compares.

 

[Firemind]

I haven't played Diablo 3, but what makes its gameplay deep in comparison? Seems like the run-of-the-mill ARPG-hack-n-slash-dungeon-craler game like most Diablo and Diablo-clones.

Diablo 3 is not a dungeon crawler.

 

[Laieon]

It's significantly more enjoyable, just like it's always been.

Never been able to get into PoE.

Grim Dawn is fun though.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Oh. In that case that's praise I hear frequently about D3. That the impact feels more responsive visually and aurally and nothing else has really matched that satisfaction.

I know what D3's combat feels like. I'm asking about the depth of the game.

 

[Nere]

Depth has improved a lot since launch with many new additions like rifts, upgraded legendary gems, the cube and other things. Path of Exile still has a lot more depth though but that is all it has going for it compared to Diablo 3.

Recently on summer I tried getting started into Path of Exile and I really didn't liked it. The areas were a bit too random for my taste, they were just huge mazes with doors that led to nowhere most of the times, the gameplay felt boring since I had only 1 spell which I kept buffing through passives, the difficulty was the worst which was all over the place, the first 3 acts were so easy that I didn't died a single time neither did I came close to dying but the final act was extremely hard especially the bosses which had shit flying all over the screen making them impossible to dodge anything.

Personally I would suggest trying Grim dawn it is a really good game.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Diablo 3 is not a dungeon crawler.

As far as wiki defines Dungeon crawl, it is (well if it's anything like D1/2 anyway). Not going to really debate that though since I didn't even exclusively call it that (It's an ARPG first, with hack-n-slash combat where you traverse dungeons in search of loot).

I know what D3's combat feels like. I'm asking about the depth of the game.

I was mostly responding to the clarification Shari gave me, signaling that I understood better what they were referring to and acknowledging I've heard the praise before.

 

[zackmorris]

Does the Path of Exile FTP elements ruin the game though? Ive never played it for that reason.

 

[Big_Al]

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

I'd say it's a combination of the actual character development and how the combat itself actually feels. For example Diablo 3 is one of my favourite ARPGs ever simply because destroying enemies feels so damn satisfyingly good. There's no doubt the character development isn't as deep but on a pure gameplay level I don't find, say Path Of Exile, as satisfying to play. So the character development doesn't mean so much to me because regardless of how I upgrade my character I don't really care for the combat.

I will however add that I'm a very casual kinda player of these games despite loving the genre so that probably plays into it as well.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

The core gameplay is what you spend most of the time doing: killing monsters and moving around the world. Both of those things feel (IMO) flawless in Diablo 3, and are the best the genre has to offer as far as I'm concerned, and both (again, IMO) feel pretty fucking amateur in Path of Exile.

 

[MekaDragon]

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

Man, you should try Path of Exile. Theorycrafting takes hours, it's amazing.

Agreed with you about Diablo III. Utterly dissapointing...

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Does the Path of Exile FTP elements ruin the game though? Ive never played it for that reason.

When I played it (again, a looong time ago) the F2P element didn't ruin it for me. What did ruin it though was that it felt more like I was playing an economics and gambling game where you had to constantly haggle different types of currency with other players in order to throw quarters into a slot machine for a chance of 5/6 socket/linked equipment. That's what ultimately killed it for me. With that said, I've heard it's much improved in that respect.

Edit: That and the inability to easily respec your character. Basically forcing you to invest time into an entirely new one if you took a bad path.

 

[Gothos]

Diablo III core gameplay - deeply satisfying. Path of Exile core gameplay - deeply lacking.

At the beggining yea, it can be lacking, especially with older skills, I agree. But it's done on purpose so you actually see and feel your character progression. On higher levels PoE combat is amazing and deeply satisying.

Does the Path of Exile FTP elements ruin the game though? Ive never played it for that reason.

PoE has easly the best free-to-play model on the market (basically all paid stuff is only cosmetic, zero impact on the game and gameplay). If that was stopping you from playing - play it, now!

 

[MekaDragon]

Does the Path of Exile FTP elements ruin the game though? Ive never played it for that reason.

Nope. It's not P2W and community is awesome. And I think like you, I often avoid games just because F2P.

 

[spindoctor]

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

(Edit: I should also mention that I haven't played D3 since the months following its launch)

The core gameplay of an Action RPG is combat. It's what you spend 95% of your time doing, and it's what adds the A in ARPG. And Diablo 3 eclipses PoE in that department. The character building is the RPG part of the equation and it's done better in several other RPGs whose systems are designed to take advantage of the variety in builds. The character building in an ARPG is entirely in service of it's combat.

 

[RankoSD]

As a huge D2 fan I couldn't digest the D3 cartoony look, the decision to go with WoW-like presentation was a disgrace to the Diablo name. Never played it.

Luckily, there is a developer out there that's also a huge D2 fan, and they've made their own game. Played PoE since closed beta and, to me, it's the only real Diablo sequel.
PoE finally feels like a complete game, desync is long gone, and with the latest Atlas expansion there is plenty of end-game content.
The only gripe I have about the game right now is that you need to grind 3 times through the main game to get to the end-game content, it can get a bit tiring because you always come up with new character builds.

 

[BashNasty]

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

To me, "core gameplay" is the simple act of hitting a monster with an attack. In an ARPG that is the thing you're going to be doing the most so how good it feels to do is of utmost importance to me. In Diablo III, attacks have weight. This is accomplished through a myriad of means: screen shake, hit flash on enemies, appropriate force applied to ragdolls and so on. These elements combine to make the simple act of killing enemies a visceral and enjoyable experience.

You say that to you the development and planning of your character is the most important thing in the game, and that's a completely valid perspective, but for me those elements have no value and no meaning if the act of killing monsters (what all that character development should lead into) isn't fun and satasfying. Diablo III nailed that feel from the start and it's why I loved the game even at release. Most people think of Diablo III as a bad game that eventually became good, I've always thought of it as a great game that eventually became an all time classic and that all hangs on the fact that it feels so good to play.

In contrast, I've never been able to muster up enthusiasm for Path of Exile because the core act of hitting a monster just doesnt feel all that good (I'll admit, I've never played Grim Dawn). I actually think that's a big division point between different types of gamers. Some value depth over feel, and others value feel over depth. Obviously it's best when a game has both, but different people are going to gravitate towards different elements.

 

[Sky87]

The economy is what kills my experience in Path of Exile every time. I might get an awesome item drop that isn't for my class (which is also a negative, gear should drop for your class) but i have no idea what it's worth unless i read up on the forums, other websites, or ask random people in trade. In which case i might get lucky and get a semi-decent answer, or more often than not, someone trying to pay way less than what it's worth.

The vendor recipes are annoying too, you'll need a mental list of what to pick up so you can create certain currency items. Of course, there are loot filters you can use, but there's still an overwhelming amount of things to learn and keep track of as you play.

D3 on the other hand is a bit too easy when it comes to gearing. You can play for a week after a Season start and pretty much be 90% top-geared. It's still the best of its class when it comes to the actual gameplay/combat/animations though.

 

[RK9039]

The only game that has similar depth to Path of Exile is Grim Dawn I believe.

People that say the combat in PoE is lacking don't really have a clue about the game. Sure early game you are weak but once you get some decent items and some good skill synergy it opens up.

 

[johancruijff]

If you're a fan of D2, keep playing PoE

And I have more than 3000 hours clocked in D3

 

[Cerity]

Microtransactions are pretty well done, there's some people that would argue that you need to buy premium stash tabs to start trading but you can still advertise through the forums. IMO by the time you'd get to that point where you'd really need >10 tabs or want to get into trading you'd have probably put in enough time already to drop that $20 odd for a stash tab pack.

Depth has improved a lot since launch with many new additions like rifts, upgraded legendary gems, the cube and other things. Path of Exile still has a lot more depth though but that is all it has going for it compared to Diablo 3.

Recently on summer I tried getting started into Path of Exile and I really didn't liked it. The areas were a bit too random for my taste, they were just huge mazes with doors that led to nowhere most of the times, the gameplay felt boring since I had only 1 spell which I kept buffing through passives, the difficulty was the worst which was all over the place, the first 3 acts were so easy that I didn't died a single time neither did I came close to dying but the final act was extremely hard especially the bosses which had shit flying all over the screen making them impossible to dodge anything.

Personally I would suggest trying Grim dawn it is a really good game.

This is probably one of the biggest issues for new players trying to get into PoE. There's no explanation of any of the mechanics in game and you have no idea if what you're investing in is good - it makes it feel even worse that can't really easily respec.

The difficulty being all over the place is something that happens if you don't clue into how the certain skills scale, again which is something that isn't really explained at all. eg. One of the really popular levelling methods right now is roll +1 gems on a wand but dudes starting the game aren't going to realise that even just an extra level on a skill will make levelling that much easier. Or even that the +1 mod even exists.

 

[Lanrutcon]

If Diablo 3 is around here then Grim Dawn and PoE are about



here.

Mechanically, D3 is pretty shallow compared to Grim Dawn and PoE. D3 was designed for consoles from day 1, and is meant to be a "pick up and play" experience. Building and understanding your character comes down to 5 minutes on youtube, pretty much.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

This is probably one of the biggest issues for new players trying to get into PoE. There's no explanation of any of the mechanics in game and you have no idea if what you're investing in is good - it makes it feel even worse that can't really easily respec.

The economy is what kills my experience in Path of Exile every time. I might get an awesome item drop that isn't for my class (which is also a negative, gear should drop for your class) but i have no idea what it's worth unless i read up on the forums, other websites, or ask random people in trade. In which case i might get lucky and get a semi-decent answer, or more often than not, someone trying to pay way less than what it's worth.

The vendor recipes are annoying too, you'll need a mental list of what to pick up so you can create certain currency items. Of course, there are loot filters you can use, but there's still an overwhelming amount of things to learn and keep track of as you play.

D3 on the other hand is a bit too easy when it comes to gearing. You can play for a week after a Season start and pretty much be 90% top-geared. It's still the best of its class when it comes to the actual gameplay/combat/animations though.

What did ruin it though was that it felt more like I was playing an economics and gambling game where you had to constantly haggle different types of currency with other players in order to throw quarters into a slot machine for a chance of 5/6 socket/linked equipment. That's what ultimately killed it for me. With that said, I've heard it's much improved in that respect.

Edit: That and the inability to easily respec your character. Basically forcing you to invest time into an entirely new one if you took a bad path.

Ha this is what I love about the game. Fuck handholding honestly.

 

[Ceadeus]

Diablo is fun but easy.

There is more grinding in poe

 

[martino]

This falls under the same category as Path of Exile, very large depth in terms of numbers but shallow gameplay.

this and gameplay is 99% of the time you spend on thoses games.

 

[Laieon]

Ha this is what I love about the game. Fuck handholding honestly.

Complete opposite here. I'm way too busy these days to do homework for games, I just want to immediately hop in and not have to wait too long before it's fun to kill hordes of demons.

 

[martino]

understanding your character

Spoiler

comes down to 5 minutes on youtube, pretty much.

it's true for every game if you allow it

 

[Conkerkid11]

Diablo III core gameplay - deeply satisfying. Path of Exile core gameplay - deeply lacking.

Yeah, this.

If Path of Exile's combat or visuals were decent, it would easily be the best in its genre.

 

[Gormenghast]

Just have some patience and wait for Lost Ark

Otherwise, the debate can be summed up as: Diablo 3 ha much higher production value, Path of Exile has depth, but far less sleek and shiny.

 

[The Hermit]

Sometimes I think Diablo III is made for people who didnt enjoy Diablo 2.

 

[Zushin]

I actually find once you complete your build in PoE and are running maps, the combat becomes more satisfying than D3 imo. Each patch they add new stuff also significantly increases the interactivity between each of the systems which in turn makes it more in depth each time.

 

[martino]

The only game that has similar depth to Path of Exile is Grim Dawn I believe.

People that say the combat in PoE is lacking don't really have a clue about the game. Sure early game you are weak but once you get some decent items and some good skill synergy it opens up.

what i know is 70 hour is not enough for me to find pleasure in what i spend most time to do in this game.
Imo diablo 3 or torchligth 2 are far more satisfying to play.
I tried another time after the first extension (maybe 10 hours) but no...
My brother is a lot more into thoses games than me (and only thoses and wow).I watched him play Grim dawn last time i've seen him. It also seems more statisfaying to play than poe but haven't tried it

 

[firehawk12]

PoE seems completely intimidating when you look at that skill tree (or wheel or whatever), and it's compounded by the fact that you can't easily respec.

 

[Fallout-NL]

What's the "core gameplay" in a game of this style?

To me, the mechanical character development and planning is the most important part of their gameplay, and on that level I found Diablo 3 incredibly unsatisfactory.

I haven't actually played Path of Exile, but e.g. Grim Dawn does pretty much everything I value in the genre far better than Diablo 3.

(Edit: I should also mention that I haven't played D3 since the months following its launch)

I suppose it's fair though to make a distinction between the mechanical development and planning and the game's actual combat where the former is definitely lacking in Diablo 3 and the latter is pretty much best in class.

 

[KKRT00]

the gameplay felt boring since I had only 1 spell which I kept buffing through passives, the difficulty was the worst which was all over the place, the first 3 acts were so easy

I finished first act and have like 6 skills. You basically get a skill every second quest.
And you can buy more skills, if you want, from vendors at any time.

The areas were a bit too random for my taste, they were just huge mazes with doors that led to nowhere most of the times.

There are lot of clues in environments where to go. Watch some racing videos.

----

I like D3 combat, but it still doesnt have as good and rewarding skill as Spectral Throw from PoE.

 

[toastyToast]

D3 is basically is a game of class sets at this point. They introduced the legacy of nightmare stuff recently so that lets you get comparable results mixing up legendaries which is cool. Quite painful to gear for though with the need for ancient items.

PoE improved significantly once they fixed desync. Melee combat is really visceral and feels a lot more 'chunky' than D3. Not all the skills are that satisfying to use but GGG made some strides in the last couple years. If you can forgive a few things it's a much better game imo

 

[ReallyNeat]

PoE seems completely intimidating when you look at that skill tree (or wheel or whatever), and it's compounded by the fact that you can't easily respec.

They give you the opportunity to respec after every major update/expansion as well as plenty of respec points as you progress through the difficulties.

I know what you mean though, often you are committed to a build from the very beginning with little chance to change it if you decide later on that it's no good.

 

[False Witness]

I think I enjoyed watching Kripparian play Path of Exile (the races were exciting as hell to watch) way more than actually playing it for myself. In Diablo 3, I actually had fun going through and leveling up each of the classes at least one time.

Of course, I'm not the type of person who cares about endgame stuff ever.

 

[Mister Zimbu]

Diablo 3 isn't nearly as deep as PoE, but PoE isn't nearly as fun as Diablo 3.

 

[firehawk12]

They give you the opportunity to respec after every major update/expansion as well as plenty of respec points as you progress through the difficulties.

I know what you mean though, often you are committed to a build from the very beginning with little chance to change it if you decide later on that it's no good.

Yeah, it just feels like a game where I have to read a build guide and follow it exactly because making a mistake may be detrimental. I sort of loved how D3 just let you change skills whenever you wanted... you were just free to fuck around and not worry about screwing yourself over.