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How does Wonderswan compare graphically to Neo Geo Pocket?

Celine

Member
So recently I got a Swan Crystal.
A friend of mine while we were speaking said that for him NGP graphics are easily superior to WS.
That seemed an odd opinion to me after witnessing One Piece Swan Colosseum on the real thing.
So for those that own/played both what are your thoughts on the subject?

Also I've heard the Swan Crystal screen is vastly improved over the WSC one but overall I've found the screen just a bit better than the one in the NGPC (first version) I own.
Was wondering which got the better screen between their top model (NGPC second version/ SwanCrystal) since I don't own the former.

*In before no one cares*
 
I think Wonderswan crystal looks a little better , it can do mode 7 at least from what i've seen of its port of Final Fantasy 4.
 
I think the Wonderswan Color supported higher resolution and more colors, but it was really held back by the super slow refresh rate - they improved that drastically with the SwanCrystal, but they still had to make their games playable on the older device. The NGPC didn't have that problem, so it had lots of fast-action and large, fast moving sprites. Thus the WonderSwan was known for its RPG's while the NGPC was known for its fighting games and side scrollers.

This was one of the few examples of where the screen technology makes a bigger difference than the capabilities of the internal graphics hardware.
 
Tue screen on a Swancrystal godly compared to a regular wonderswan or neo geo pocket.

As far as graphics go, they seem similar. I don't know the raw specs differences.


Edit: buy Klonoa Moonlight Museam.
 
Hmm... well, that's hard to say. In terms of hardware power, the two have different strengths.

First though, the NGP released in Nov. '98 in Japan. The NGPC and first WS both launched in March '99. The WSC came much later, in Dec. '00. So there's a big gap between the releases of the two -- for the most part, the NGPC was competing with the original WonderSwan, not the color one.

As for the tech specs, just see these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderswan#Technical_specifications
Note that there are a couple of issues with these specs. First, it doesn't actually list the amount of RAM the B&W system has, and I can't find it; that stuff in the "ram" box for the first WS is the save-data stuff, not system ram. Also, I'm not sure if that 512"kB" is actually kilobytes or not -- IGN said 512KB in their summary of hardware information, but Giantbomb says that it's actually 64KB: http://www.giantbomb.com/wonderswan-color/60-54/ (so is that actually 512 kilobits? I don't know).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_Geo_Pocket_Color#Technical_specifications
Comparing these specs, the NGPC has less ram than the WSC (can't compare to the first WS for the above reasons), but has a CPU that's twice as fast. For the original NGP, it's pretty similar to the color one, with the same CPU speed and such, just without color, and with less RAM as you'd expect. Of course though, the WSC doesn't increase the CPU speed either, it also just adds more RAM.

However, despite the NGPC's faster CPU, the WSC definitely can do some things the NGPC couldn't, or at least never tried. All NGPC games are either topdown or side-view -- none attempt a fake-scaling racing game like those Final Lap games on the WS/WSC, and none attempt Mode 7 like in FF4 for WSC, either. In flat-on 2d games the NGPC probably has the advantage, but the WS/WSC seems to have support for some graphical stuff the NGPC either couldn't do, or no one tried to attempt. So which one is better depends on which kind of game you're trying to make, probably.

Oh, and the WS/WSC run at a higher resolution, too -- the NGP/NGPC are 160x152, while the WS/WSC are 226x144. Both systems have 4096 colors, but the WSC can display 241 at once, while the NGPC can display 146. For the B&W systems, both have 8 shades of grey (twice as many as the original GB).


Ironically, even though its graphics are worse, the Game Boy Color actually has a faster CPU than any of the above systems -- in GBC mode it's 8Mhz (though it also has a 4Mhz mode that matches the original GB's speed). Basically, the NGP/C and WS/C, in terms of raw system power (ignoring the major advances in screens, system size, and battery life, that is), aren't better than the handhelds of eight to ten years before, like the GB, GG, and Lynx. The Lynx's 16Mhz graphics chip isn't matched by any of them, in particular... while the GB and WS/C have a handful of 3d-ish games each, none come even close to what the Lynx could do. I think it shows how by the late '90s, handheld designers had finally started actually designing systems based on what was reasonable within the limitations of battery life and screen technology, instead of ignoring that and making powerful systems that are extremely impractical as actual portables, like the Lynx and GG. The result was that graphics didn't really improve, but the systems got smaller, battery lives longer (the original GB had good battery life, but nothing else from that era did; in comparison, all late '90s handhelds have decent to good battery life), etc. But I'd say graphics didn't really see a big step forward until the GBA. That is, unless you count the Virtual Boy as a handheld. :)
 
It should be noted that most ngpc games operate at a lower framerate (30 fps) which is slower than even the OG Gameboy. Nearly all WS games run at 60 fps.
 
I always found NGPC's graphics too simplistic and lacking in color and detail. Game Boy sprites tended to look better IMO. The FF games on WSC looked great though, very colorful and organic.
 
I always found NGPC's graphics too simplistic and lacking in color and detail. Game Boy sprites tended to look better IMO. The FF games on WSC looked great though, very colorful and organic.

NGPC backgrounds can look great, but the 3-color limit for sprites does hurt.
 
Also, the WSC's CPU was a 16-bit NEC V30MZ clone running at 3.072 MHz. Does the GBC's 8MHz Z80-like processor really outperform that?
 
Wonderswan Color was definitely better looking. I had one myself because I got it fairly cheaper. It wasn't a bad handheld aside from the fact it was hard to see stuff on it without proper lighting. A backlight would've helped a lot back then but it was still uncommon so.
 

Not for the kinds of games SNK was best at it doesn't... I don't think the WS/C has fighting games anywhere near as good as Last Blade Pocket or SNK vs Capcom. Of course, nor does the GBC, but still, it is true. Guilty Gear Petit is no competition for those.

And does the WS/C it have any platform/action games equal to the Metal Slug 1st/2nd Mission games? I know Klonoa on the original WS is good, but the WS Rockman & Forte game has a quite poor reputation; otherwise, most of the WS platformers really aren't too well known so I don't know much about them. The WSC Rockman EXE WS platformer does have nice graphics though...

The WS/C can do some scaling/rotation stuff, can put more colors on screen, can do sprites with more than 3 colors in the WSC, and runs in a higher resolution, but still, for the kinds of games the NGPC is best at, it beats the WSC. And I think the hardware designs are part of why.

Also, the WSC's CPU was a 16-bit NEC V30MZ clone running at 3.072 MHz. Does the GBC's 8MHz Z80-like processor really outperform that?
Good question, it is tough to compare stuff like that, that is true. The same would go for the NGPC's CPUs, a 6.144 Mhz (and 16-bit) Toshiba TLCS900H, and a (8-bit) 3.072Mhz Z80 for sound. The fact that the WS/C and NGP/C CPUs are both 16-bit, while the GBC one is only 8-bit, surely does give them advantages that their lower clock speeds don't suggest. (Well, the NGP/C's clock speed is higher than the base GB CPU, but otherwise they're lower.)
 
Not for the kinds of games SNK was best at it doesn't... I don't think the WS/C has fighting games anywhere near as good as Last Blade Pocket or SNK vs Capcom. Of course, nor does the GBC, but still, it is true. Guilty Gear Petit is no competition for those.
Pocket Fighter on WS runs at double the framerate and features more frames of animation. Also, Digimon Battle Spirit features really smooth animation and great backgrounds. There simply aren't many games to compare, though, as the WS library was kind of shit. :\

And does the WS/C it have any platform/action games equal to the Metal Slug 1st/2nd Mission games? I know Klonoa on the original WS is good, but the WS Rockman & Forte game has a quite poor reputation; otherwise, most of the WS platformers really aren't too well known so I don't know much about them. The WSC Rockman EXE WS platformer does have nice graphics though...
I own all of those. Klonoa is fantastic, runs smoothly, and features great animation. Looks and runs better than any platformer on NGPC even though it's just black and white. The Rockman games are kind of poor, though, no doubt.

The WS/C can do some scaling/rotation stuff, can put more colors on screen, can do sprites with more than 3 colors in the WSC, and runs in a higher resolution, but still, for the kinds of games the NGPC is best at, it beats the WSC. And I think the hardware designs are part of why.
The WSC could have done all of those games better, no doubt. It does everything you mention at double the framerate. The NGPC is a better system from a library standpoint but the hardware is inferior.
 
I've only played space invaders on the wonderswan so I'm pretty sure the neo geo pocket color games look way better
but in all seriousness no question wonderswan was more capable than the neo geo pocket clock tower is way more detailed than anything on the ngpc, shame it was only in B&W
 
Pocket Fighter on WS runs at double the framerate and features more frames of animation. Also, Digimon Battle Spirit features really smooth animation and great backgrounds. There simply aren't many games to compare, though, as the WS library was kind of shit. :\
That does make comparisons difficult, sure... but even with a better developer, do you really think that the WS could have pulled off something the equal of those two games? I don't know...

I own all of those. Klonoa is fantastic, runs smoothly, and features great animation. Looks and runs better than any platformer on NGPC even though it's just black and white. The Rockman games are kind of poor, though, no doubt.
Well, there only ARE three platformers on the NGPC, so it's a pretty thin field for comparison -- there are the two Metal Slug games, Sonic Pocket Adventure, and that's it. I think the Metal Slugs look better than Sonic, but they all look good enough and play well. You're right that Klonoa for WS does look and play well too, but better than any of the NGPC ones? I'm not sure offhand.

The WSC could have done all of those games better, no doubt. It does everything you mention at double the framerate. The NGPC is a better system from a library standpoint but the hardware is inferior.
For the most part yes, not in all respects it isn't. The NGPC is at least running at twice the clock speed, and both are 16-bit CPUs.
 
I know you're not too concerned with framerate but the fact that WonderSwan delivers its games at 60 fps while ngpc typically only delivers 30 fps with less detailed backgrounds definitely favors the WS as the more powerful machine b
 
Not for the kinds of games SNK was best at it doesn't... I don't think the WS/C has fighting games anywhere near as good as Last Blade Pocket or SNK vs Capcom. Of course, nor does the GBC, but still, it is true. Guilty Gear Petit is no competition for those.
As good as a game surely not.
But I think that One Piece Swan Colosseum while being a different kind of fighting game (and a pretty good one to boot too) has gorgeous character animations, colorful graphics and well done and animated backgrounds.
It could easily be confused for a good looking 2D GBA game.

Dimps is what I consider one of the top developer on both systems.
They did Sonic PA and SvC:MotM that are the best NGP graphical showcase with Neo Pokekun.
They also did some of WS most impressive games as OP SC and Digimon Frontier (the others would be Silversword Judgment, Riviera, a couple anime game and a bunch of Square titles).
Just a comparison between between their game on both:

Sonic Pocket Adventure
2198777-tumblr_lmqyq5sAdO1qdtw9eo1_500.png


One Piece Swan Colosseum
From%20TV%20Animation%20One%20Piece%20%20Grand%20Battle%20Swan%20Colosseum_Apr25%2016_50_34.png
From%20TV%20Animation%20One%20Piece%20%20Grand%20Battle%20Swan%20Colosseum_Mar25%2016_05_39.png
WONDERSWAN--From%20TV%20Animation%20One%20Piece%20%20Grand%20Battle%20Swan%20Colosseum_Sep13%2016_39_20.png

gfs_23118_2_1.jpg
gfs_23118_2_8.jpg
gfs_23118_1_1.jpg


Ah ah you crazy Pokekun
 
As good as a game surely not.
But I think that One Piece Swan Colosseum while being a different kind of fighting game (and a pretty good one to boot too) has gorgeous character animations, colorful graphics and well done and animated backgrounds.
It could easily be confused for a good looking 2D GBA game.

Dimps is what I consider one of the top developer on both systems.
They did Sonic PA and SvC:MotM that are the best NGP graphical showcase with Neo Pokekun.
They also did some of WS most impressive games as OP SC and Digimon Frontier (the others would be Silversword Judgment, Riviera, a couple anime game and a bunch of Square titles).
Just a comparison between between their game on both:

Sonic Pocket Adventure
2198777-tumblr_lmqyq5sAdO1qdtw9eo1_500.png
Pocket Adventure is a great game, but man, the lack of parallax backgrounds and the low framerate definitely hurt. :\
 
So does anybody own a NGPC "slim"?
How is the screen quality compared to the previous version or WS/C/SC?

MiColeccion_Neogeo_pocket_Slim_Cristal_Yellow_Ngpc_Stone_Blue_comparadas_dimensiones.jpg
I've got one in my collection. To be honest, I never noticed any difference in the screen quality between the NGPCv1 and v2 - certainly nothing like the huge difference between the Wonderswan Color and Swan Crystal. I could take a closer look tonight.
 
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