-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
How does World of Warcraft do it?
- Thread starter Measley
- Start date
scoobs
Member
the problem for new MMOs is that people have been conditioned to expect the countless features that WoW already has (raid finder, dungeon finder, tons of pvp battlegrounds, arenas, monthly events, etc etc etc.)
WoW has twice as many features as SWTOR, probably more than that actually
WoW has twice as many features as SWTOR, probably more than that actually
WoW was amazing in every way possible and did so many things right. What I, however, liked most about it was the progression from level 1. This accounts for vanilla WoW experiences. You'd start out and was already impressed by its style, then the fantastic music hit you and the scope of the zones, my jaw was on the floor. You progressed a bit, get some gear and completed some quests and got a taste of the 'mmo progression'. Everything is smooth, combat and questing and then you suddenly want to explorer high-end zones despite being 20-30 levels too low. Everything was just an awe-inspiring experience and as days turned to weeks you constantly tried a new thing that left you impressed ( dungeons, combat versus another player etc. )
MMOs following just seem to play on the "Oh well, players don't want an experience any more, let's just give them everything they need" and they just pour in PvP, battlegrounds, dungeons and all that shit while nothing is impressive, drab style, janky animations, music composed by a dying walrus, game completely void of any atmosphere and everything else is something we've played before in a cut down state. Give us back that "first jaw dropping experience" sensation, which requires a lot of work but it's worth it. Once you hook people there, people are so much more forgiving at everything around it and slow addition of features - In my opinion.
I'm actually concerned that no MMO will ever live up the WoW first experience because everything released after WoW wasn't even in the stratosphere of achieving it. I constantly hope and dream that I'm wrong.
MMOs following just seem to play on the "Oh well, players don't want an experience any more, let's just give them everything they need" and they just pour in PvP, battlegrounds, dungeons and all that shit while nothing is impressive, drab style, janky animations, music composed by a dying walrus, game completely void of any atmosphere and everything else is something we've played before in a cut down state. Give us back that "first jaw dropping experience" sensation, which requires a lot of work but it's worth it. Once you hook people there, people are so much more forgiving at everything around it and slow addition of features - In my opinion.
I'm actually concerned that no MMO will ever live up the WoW first experience because everything released after WoW wasn't even in the stratosphere of achieving it. I constantly hope and dream that I'm wrong.
surely with the number playing it, its more like a gaming social network than a pure game?
Many people will already have exhausted the pure game aspects of it, but meeting friends and questing together seems a big focus of the game, so maybe they come for the game, stay for the camaraderie?
Many people will already have exhausted the pure game aspects of it, but meeting friends and questing together seems a big focus of the game, so maybe they come for the game, stay for the camaraderie?
Well, Blizzard themselves effectively managed to do that to Everquest. Although isn't that in part because while the core gameplay is basically the same as Everquest, they streamlined it significantly and jettisonned ideas which had been clung onto for a bit too long?
(Haven't played Everquest, but that's the impression I got)
The thing about WoW is that it's not *afraid* to jettison such ideas when they do an expansion release. We lost a ton of stats in 4.0, we're going to lose a few more basic concepts in 5.0 (no dead zone for hunters, for instance). As a paladin, Pandaria looks to he be the first expansion where I *haven't* been massively changed since the previous one. They're a bit more mobile and adaptable. A competitor has to hit an agile target, not a lethargic one.
Ugh. The thought alone saddens me. Literally everything I've tried after vanilla WoW hasn't even come close. We gotta hold out hope, though!
Like I said earlier, I'm really eager to see what Project Titan is all about. Hell, if they did it once, maybe they can do it again.
StoppedInTracks
Member
This a thousand times this.
1) Do not make a WoW clone cause you will never out do Blizzard in any genre they are in (action RPG, RTS, MMOs). Blizzard is the Nintendo of PC world. Only AAAA+ quality.
2) Do your own thing. Find what WoW and every WoW-clone lacks. Try to build something around WoW's weaknesses (no game is perfect). Then you will succeed.
On top of what people have already said, WoW (and all Blizzard games) has had native Mac support from day one with the same disc being used. That's a pretty big market that most other MMO's don't bother with, Mac people will play WoW as they have far less choice.
I played for 5 years but now see that they are really taking the piss, the sub used to be for "content throughout the year" but now all the content is in the paid for xpacs for the most part, so they are using the GW2 model but WITH a sub for the lulz. It won't get dropped as people pay it and I don't see them dropping below even 5m subs which is enough.
I played for 5 years but now see that they are really taking the piss, the sub used to be for "content throughout the year" but now all the content is in the paid for xpacs for the most part, so they are using the GW2 model but WITH a sub for the lulz. It won't get dropped as people pay it and I don't see them dropping below even 5m subs which is enough.
Sure I can agree with that, however I think WoW, for what it did, how it affected the entire online gaming industry, and became this one-time behemoth is a rare occurrence that we won't likely ever see on the same scale again. Especially when speaking about profitability.
I don't think they'll manage to pull of with Titan what they managed with WoW. Will they get closer than any other competitor has? Definitely.
Wow just nailed it in a few key areas. The gameplay 'feels' good. The setting is fantastic. And they handled endgame perfectly.
Sure Wow is boring by now and Blizzard is hard at work to make a lot of things that sucked people in worse, easier and dumber. But the first 2 years Wow was just a fantastic game.
Sure Wow is boring by now and Blizzard is hard at work to make a lot of things that sucked people in worse, easier and dumber. But the first 2 years Wow was just a fantastic game.
i like PVP
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
it was a blizzard game all the millions playing starcraft,warcraft 3 and diablo 2 all went into it dosent hurt it was a good game ontop of that so that drew in new people and word of mouth went from there
Ditto on the nostalgia hearing that Elwynn Forest music, beautiful stuff. My first character was way back just a few months after launch, a human Paladin.
I love MMO stories for reasons like that, it's always something so different for everyone. The size and scope just blew me away.
It's not that I miss WoW, I miss the experiences that I had playing it for the first time. It was, and still is in many ways, and incredible game that changed everything.
Joke post? That's maybe like barely a handful of servers that really that have that (if at all). Most servers aren't like that in general unless you're on a highly populated server.
If anything, I'd argue it has too many servers. A good number are pretty low on population at the moment anyhow due to a whole number of issues (end of expansion, no more content updates, etc.).
Yeah, that really has changed a lot over time. I remember when you'd have to actually hunt down instances and get somebody to go with you and summon people. Not to mention all the attunements and whatnot you had to do for dungeons and raids...you don't even have to do the majority of those anymore.
And quests have been pretty much simplified since the map shows you where you need to go and whatnot. Then again, it does eliminate the need to have to look up the damn quests if you're kinda stuck, so I guess it works out.
ElectricBlue187
Member
WoW is super high quality stuff. Ground breaking for its size and scope and for the fact it came out nearly 10 goddamn years ago
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Old WoW meme.
It is not opinion, it is fact. The "veggies and whole grains" of an MMO reside there.
If you like that. Granted, that's for one character, and it's the same for raiding and PvP.
I'm not sure how big of an impact it will have. Will every servers merge together or just a couple of them? Because, at best, on one server, there could be between 0 to 1 player in...say Desolace. You merge 10 servers and you get 6 people now in Desolace. That's nothing really game changing.
Very true. Asherons Call was my first MMO as well, and I'm not even sure how long I kept paying it after I "stopped playing".
JetBlackPanda
Member
ummmm..
Ultima and EverQuest say hello.
(there were others but these two really started the MMO market that we see today.)
eudaemonic
Member
Sometimes I log on just to talk to guildies and see how they're doing. And given the huge variety of things you can do, you can find something brainless *coughArchaeologycough* and be social or raid and be social. It's nice to have options.
we.are.the.armada
Member
WoW is fun and has Blizzard level polish. It made changes that redefined accessibility in the genre and continues to adapt. Players typically come back after taking a long break to find a different experience than before.
nephilimdj
Member
Still raising the bar also, removing heroic dungeons for 10man looking for raid, "challenge" raids in panda.
Going to be massive on content for end game, which games like star wars lacked
Going to be massive on content for end game, which games like star wars lacked
What? Removing heroics? When did they say that? I've been skipping WoW news for the last 2 months.
Leveling from 1-70 with a group of friends just before the TBC came out then carrying on through to 70, was and still is my most fondest gaming memories that i'll never forget nor regret. I don't think i'll ever get that same feeling of sheer awe and excitement that i got when i first created my human mage back in 2005 and logged in for the first time ever, oh boy.. I'm glad i quit when i did though, a few months before Lich King.. but i'll never forget the enjoyment i got out of the game at the time. Really looking forward to GW2 though, hopefully it can match what i got out of WoW, but those are some pretty big boots to fill..
Max Knight
Member
The level 90 dungeons are still going to be called "heroics," but they're going to be easier than the ones seen in Cataclysm. And the dungeons that are already level 90 are not going to have separate heroic versions. Think of it kind of like how they handled the remakes of Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman: "heroic," even though there isn't a normal version.
They are adding "challenge modes" though, which are optional hard modes for those dungeons that provide cosmetic gear for transmogrification. They said the difficulty of the challenge modes will range from something along the lines of original heroic Shadow Labyrinth all the way up to ZA bear runs in Burning Crusade. They said one of the features of the challenge modes is temporary gear-scaling, which will scale your gear down to an item level appropriate for that dungeon, so you can't overgear the challenges.
For all the hate it gets, WoW was and is still the best MMO out there. As an opponent, you can't get very far by hedging your bets on a few innovations (LotR, WAR, AoC, TOR, etc.) when your game is playing catch-up to the iteration of WoW that was present at the time you began development.
Easier? I hope that by "easier", you dont mean easier than something like Hour of Twilight. You can't make something easier than that without being as stupid easy as a lvl 20 dungeon.
Hari Seldon
Member
I think the fundamental problem is that in order to de-thrown WoW you need something truly revolutionary AND a ton of money. No one is going to fund a hugely expensive MMO with revolutionary ideas as it is too much of a risk, so instead we get WoW-clone after WoW-clone.
But yeah, I don't know anyone who plays Warcraft anymore out of all of my friends who used to play it. I'd be curious on the population breakdown by region.
But yeah, I don't know anyone who plays Warcraft anymore out of all of my friends who used to play it. I'd be curious on the population breakdown by region.
Max Knight
Member
I don't really know. Probably. I think a lot of people overgeared Hour of Twilight before it even came out, and then complained it was too easy. If you have a group of minimum iLevel folks, it is kind of challenging. The reason they add the new five-mans in each content patch is just so that people can get gear to enter the newest raid without having to go through all the previous raids that nobody does anymore.
I could see myself becoming a challenge mode junkie, if they end up as difficult as Blizzard claims they will be. It's the first real effort they've made towards making five-mans stay relevant throughout endgame. It should prove to be interesting.
You know, I hadn't played for a few months. Just last night, I saw this thread, and figured I'd boot it up.
Still fun
.
I think I'm going to play more this weekend; 4 levels to go and I can get my flying mount. All that skinning and mining money will pay off then.
Still fun
after updating, of course
I think I'm going to play more this weekend; 4 levels to go and I can get my flying mount. All that skinning and mining money will pay off then.
Doubt it. Not cause I don't think guild wars 2 isn't good, but that it doesn't require a sub. Arenanet is smart, they know people will usually only go with one subscribed game at a time. And if they had to choose between WoW and Guildwars 2, it'd be a tough battle for GW. So people will still be able to keep their sub to WoW, but still dabble in Guildwars (and purchase microtransactions... which weigh less heavily on people's conscience).
GoofsterStud
Member
1.) People invested into there character - people don't like to admit when they have a lemon. These same people invest way to much money into a junker.
2.) Highest player base - MMO's require people, if you want one with a lot of players online you go with the one with the most subscriptions.
3.) Initial launch and expansion were great. Cataclysm is considered the first let down, MOP has the chance to show it was a fluke. It also could send the game down the tube.
WOW needs competition. The developers are to complacent. Rift has 5x as much content, and more polished released during the same time since Cata has been out. Granted I prefer the base WOW has to work with over Rift, so everything is still in WOW's favor. We can only hope that some game creates competition that pushes Blizzard to put out the polished product we expect.
I will buy any decent looking MMO with the hope that it helps give competition, in an otherwise stale genre.
2.) Highest player base - MMO's require people, if you want one with a lot of players online you go with the one with the most subscriptions.
3.) Initial launch and expansion were great. Cataclysm is considered the first let down, MOP has the chance to show it was a fluke. It also could send the game down the tube.
WOW needs competition. The developers are to complacent. Rift has 5x as much content, and more polished released during the same time since Cata has been out. Granted I prefer the base WOW has to work with over Rift, so everything is still in WOW's favor. We can only hope that some game creates competition that pushes Blizzard to put out the polished product we expect.
I will buy any decent looking MMO with the hope that it helps give competition, in an otherwise stale genre.
As has been mentioned, WoW got where it is through a combination of perfect storm, perfect philosophy to coincide with that storm, and the fact that it is brilliantly playable. With WoW, it was like we'd skipped a
couple of generations of MMOs, so much so that even its alleged
'killers' feel dated next to it even while releasing a half decade later.
GW2 is the only MMO that seems to play right. Everything else has felt like a step backwards in everything but graphics - and sometimes not even there.
FWIW: Blizzard's next MMO is going to be huge. Don't doubt that for a second. It will be F2P and people will pay for everything it offers like it's crack cocaine.
couple of generations of MMOs, so much so that even its alleged
'killers' feel dated next to it even while releasing a half decade later.
GW2 is the only MMO that seems to play right. Everything else has felt like a step backwards in everything but graphics - and sometimes not even there.
FWIW: Blizzard's next MMO is going to be huge. Don't doubt that for a second. It will be F2P and people will pay for everything it offers like it's crack cocaine.
GoofsterStud
Member
You mean the FPS mmo? I honestly think it'll be Blizzards first failure. Out of all the WOW players I know, I'd say less then 1 out of 10 like FPS. Most FPS fans I know, hate MMO's like wow... So I see it bombing.
It won't even get that high. For each failed MMO, the MMO playerbase
- which appears to be fairly fixed in total number - will grow more and more cautious about those they try out. SWTOR was the most likely potential real competitor for WoW.
whalenapp81
Member
Honestly for me. The first six months of WOW back when it first launched was one of the best video game experiences I have had. Ever since then, I feel like I have been "chasing the dragon" as it were to get the experience with other MMO's and I haven't been able to.
Um... Where was it revealed that Titan would be an FPS?
GoofsterStud
Member
It's been confirmed by blizzard for a long time.
Maybe I should say it's been slipped out by GM's and a deleted blue post. If you search MMO-champion you can go through it all and find it. Other evidence further supports the slip up.
1.) Different type of gameplay confirmed
2.) Broader appeal, like FPS have.
3.) Working with Bungie staff, who is rumored to be working on an MMOFPS to boot.
4.) Blizzard invests and acquires some of the Blink team to work on the Titan project
So even of the GM slip ups, are exaggerated. Everything else basically confirms things.
Link to the confirmation? All I see are rumors.
GoofsterStud
Member
It's only rumor because blizzard deleted the post, but you can find screen shots. I'm not going to spend hours looking for old news.
Think alot of WoW's initial success came from the community, there was great interaction between people on the server. I remember logging on server forums and just going back and forth with many of the other players. Once the pvp system came out really able to distinguish some great players and discuss on forums. I remember have a 100 page thread about who the best rogue on the server was pretty entertaining.
Fair enough. That said, if that's true? It will dwarf WoW. The FPS population is much larger than the MMO population, and Blizzard could potentially get many onboard. Smart move really and it would allow them to not compete with WoW.
Similar threads
- Poll