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[MadOdorMachine]

It would have to be on par with the first and second generation Xbox 360 titles. Since there's no 1080i support, it better make up for that with awesome graphics.

Couldn't have said it better. The lack of HD better be made up for with some pretty outrageous SD stuff. The controller only gets you so far. The graphics have to be great also.

 

[radioheadrule83]

ftp://mirrors.blueyonder.co.uk/sites/kikizo.com/games/e32005/kikizo_metroidprime3_hd.wmv

and if that doesn't work, right click the link from this page:

http://www.kikizo.com/viewer/vidview_games.asp?games/e32005/kikizo_metroidprime3_hd.wmv

 

[Frankfurter]

Realistically though, what sort of technology would you be able to squeeze into that tiny system case that could give high graphical horsepower while avoiding heat issues?

Nintendo was able to put technology into about 1/4th of the whole Gamecube (the rest is the disc drive, expansions etc.) that had real world performance quite near to Xbox. ATi and Nvidia are able to design graphic chips for notebooks that are quite near to their desktop counterparts. So why shouldn't Nintendo be able to put technology into Rev that will be about on par with Xbox 360 in real world performance in SDTV resolutions?

 

[littlewig]

Revolution will be more powerful than the Xbox360. Deal with it please.

 

[pestul]

480p with 4xAA/8xAniso.. make it happen Nintendo. In the end, for some reason I believe the graphics will be fantastic.. but at the same time not comparable to the other two systems. It will just be.. different.

 

[GoutPatrol]

If it makes me say "Wow!", then I will be happy.

I'm surprised to took that long for this response.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Doom 3 level graphics are already next generation. Quake 4 looks more like a next generation title than anything released on the XBOX360 so far, IMO.. And that looks unlikely to change until Gears of War.

I agree, and that's why I'm saying Rev had better be able to handle this. UE3 is greatly needed too.

 

[pestul]

Revolution will be more powerful than the Xbox360. Deal with it please.

This post was brought to you by the gut. Trust your gut.

 

[ziran]

if you bother reading what they say, they never said graphics don't matter, they keep stressing that graphics aren't what gaming is about.

this is an important point.

many have used iwata's comments about graphics to bash nintendo, but taking a sentence out of context is a cheap way to do it.

over the last 2-3 years nintendo has been saying the same thing:

the time improved graphics increased videogame sales is over

not that graphics aren't important. those who read the interviews and watched the speeches know this.

if you disagree, fine, but videogame sales over the last 5+ years, the world over, have proved this.

the idea people who aren't playing games (including those who've stopped playing) will look at a next gen soccer game, racing game, fps, rpg, action adventure, etc, and start playing because the graphics are better is nonsense.

 

[Spike]

There is no way that the Revolution will have subpar graphics. As Nintendo has said time and time again, graphics are only the entry point.

I really don't think that there is going to be much difference graphically between the three systems, no matter what the fanboys want to believe. I mean, they're all being created at the same time, where graphics cards are all going to offer the same basic features overall. The only thing is that Nintendo won't support resolutions higher than 480p, whereas the others do. But, it's not what resolution you support, but how you support it. Nintendo's never fallen behind graphically on the home front, so why should I start believing they will now?

 

[tahrikmili]

Thing is, most people will answer "gameplay is more important than graphics!" when asked.. unfortunately their purchasing decisions are usually more dependent on what they "see" and "read".. What they see is the graphics (the COOL FACTOR) and what they read are reviews (mostly gfx-centric) so while the Graphics are not everything argument has some merit in theory, in practice, poor looking games just don't sell well, while great looking lousy games sell shitloads. It just happens.

 

[imastalker co.]

ATi and Nvidia are able to design graphic chips for notebooks that are quite near to their desktop counterparts. So why shouldn't Nintendo be able to put technology into Rev that will be about on par with Xbox 360 in real world performance in SDTV resolutions?

carefull now. not everyone here has logic on their side.

this is an important point.

many have used iwata's comments about graphics to bash nintendo, but taking a sentence out of context is a cheap way to do it.

over the last 2-3 years nintendo has been saying the same thing:

the time improved graphics increased videogame sales is over

not that graphics aren't important. those who read the interviews and watched the speeches know this.

if you disagree, fine, but videogame sales over the last 5+ years, the world over, have proved this.

the idea people who aren't playing games (including those who've stopped playing) will look at a next gen soccer game, racing game, fps, rpg, action adventure, etc, and start playing because the graphics are better is nonsense.

people just need to watch Iwata's last GDC keynote, and stop trying to convince themselves otherwise.

There is no way that the Revolution will have subpar graphics. As Nintendo has said time and time again, graphics are only the entry point.

although that is how they feel, Reggie doesn't speak for all of Nintendo.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Revolution will be more powerful than the Xbox360. Deal with it please.

I'm advocating that it will do things Xbox 360 is currently doing (and maybe even better) at 480p, but I think you're gonna get shot down for that...

When Rev comes out, 360 will be getting its next set of titles, which would (I imagine) raise the bar past what we've seen at launch. And everything Nintendo have said about this subject runs counter to the idea of them concentrating on graphics that much to outdo them in that instance. At high resolutions anyway.

What we get at 480p, I have a feeling will surprise people.
Even HDTV owners...

I've always said, if you've been happy with watching progressive scan DVDs on your HD set, you'll be happy enough with Revolution.

 

[Ponn]

I don't think there will be any problems with Graphics on the Revolution. It will be able to compete enough and be equal in the eyes of casuals playing on SD TV's. Having HD output would have been nice and would have shown some forethought, and it's up in the air if that will come back to bite them in the ass or not.

On the other hand i'm still not getting a Revolution, but that's due to something else in particular....

 

[Raven.]

I want at least FFVII tech demo quality gphx. I'm not quite fond of the doom3/quake4/ue3 style gphx, which seem well suited for tightly armored foot soldiers, but not for characters with loose clothing.

 

[elostyle]

Realistically though, what sort of technology would you be able to squeeze into that tiny system case that could give high graphical horsepower while avoiding heat issues?

I have no real idea about current gpu design so I'd like to hear some thoughts.

It's going to be interesting because the heatsink on the 360 gpu is really not all that big. In fact it's pretty tiny. That huge water cooling brick thing sits on top of the cpu.

And I bet the rev will be able to output HD. The gpu will be able to do it of course. Take a look at the 360, the TVout stuff/scaler acutally appears to be the same that the x1000 cards have - which is embedded on the gpu. I don't think nintendo would add a special chip just to omit HD when the gpu already has everything on board.

EDIT: So uhm, what ever happened to the watercooling that the 360 was said to use?

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Another aspect of the graphics are the resources Nintendo are going to put into Rev. It seems to be an accepted truth that Rev and Xbox 360 are easier to develop for than PS3 but that can only go so far. A big part of the graphics looking good will be if Nintendo has the tools to help developers. One thing that's against them is two of their most graphically proficient affiliates (Rare and Factor 5) have left Nintendo. I'm interested to know if MGS4 and Killzone 2 are built from the ground up creating an original engine, or if it's liscenced from either Sony or a third party. I hope Nintendo has some type of solution for this because more and more developers are using UE3 now.

 

[elostyle]

Another aspect of the graphics are the resources Nintendo are going to put into Rev. It seems to be an accepted truth that Rev and Xbox 360 are easier to develop for than PS3 but that can only go so far. A big part of the graphics looking good will be if Nintendo has the tools to help developers. One thing that's against them is two of their most graphically proficient affiliates (Rare and Factor 5) have left Nintendo. I'm interested to know if MGS4 and Killzone 2 are built from the ground up creating an original engine, or if it's liscenced from either Sony or a third party. I hope Nintendo has some type of solution for this because more and more developers are using UE3 now.

It's likely their in house stuff ported.

 

[John Harker]

This post was brought to you by the gut. Trust your gut.

"Well, I've been listening to my gut since I was 14 years old, and frankly speaking, I've come to the conclusion that my guts have shit for brains. "

 

[Jiggy]

As good as the GC's "2.5D" output, and with no 3D capabilities whatsoever.
Honestly. I don't care about FPS, (realistic) racing, or sports games. Action is debatable either way, but I prefer the 2D stuff in that genre. Adventure and platforming games have only gone straight downhill since the advent of 3D, and arguably puzzles as well. RPGs and strategy games are fine either way.
So yeah, for my particular gaming tastes, I seriously wouldn't care if the only step we'd ever taken past SNES-level 2D was to add a zooming camera for SSBM. How happy I am with the Revolution rests entirely in the hands of the software.

With that out of the way, I expect the graphical difference between the Revolution and 360 to be no greater than between the GC and X-Box, with a chance to narrow the gap because of the later release date, and an off-chance to swing the other way for the same reason.

 

[Jive Turkey]

100 feet in the air and bored as hell. Looks like a labotomy patient.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Just for kicks and giggles, here are some screenshots:

Metroid Prime 2

Metroid Prime 3

Metroid Prime

No way would I settle for this if this is all the improvements we'll see.

 

[Xrenity]

Was playing Wind Waker today and it still looks awesome.

I expect Rev to be able to do stuff like PGR3, though.

 

[krypt0nian]

Revolution will be more powerful than the Xbox360. Deal with it please.

 

[PhoenixDark]

As long as the Revolution can perfectly handle the Unreal engine I'll be golden. I highly doubt the system will be as underpowered as some believe.

RE4, MP2, and Zelda TP look amazing, and if the Revolution does indeed wind up allowing graphics 3-4 times better than those, I'll be happy then too.

 

[Koshiro]

to be honest the ds has shown me graphics aren't important to play great games, even though i've seen amazing ps3 and xbox 360 graphics.

Yup, spot on. That's the reason I chose DS over PSP. The games are just great and there's a steady flow of them. It's already obvious Rev's controller will deliver new experiences, and that's what matters to me.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

As long as the Revolution can perfectly handle the Unreal engine I'll be golden. I highly doubt the system will be as underpowered as some believe.

RE4, MP2, and Zelda TP look amazing, and if the Revolution does indeed wind up allowing graphics 3-4 times better than those, I'll be happy then too.

Even if it can handle UE3 what are the chances it will make it? Could GC handle UE2? I'm just saying Nintendo haven't exactly been proactive in getting quality third party games on GC. Hopefully they change this aproach with Revolution, but it's too soon to tell.

As far as Rev being 2 - 3 times more powerful than GC, I think it depends on your perspective. If someone said GC and PS2 are 2 - 3 times as powerful as N64 and PlayStation I can see that point, just like SNES and Genesis were 2 - 3 times as powerful as NES & SMS. The lack of news on the graphical capabilities for Revolution is starting to have a negative effect toward Nintendo though. The controller alone will only get them so far. They need to announce something and they need to do it well before E3 unless they want to see the same thing that happened to GC happen to Rev.

 

[Grug]

Yup, spot on. That's the reason I chose DS over PSP. The games are just great and there's a steady flow of them. It's already obvious Rev's controller will deliver new experiences, and that's what matters to me.

Sorry what was that? I was hypnotised by your avatar!

 

[..pakbeka..]

5 times as good as RE4, Zelda: TP and the RS games would be enough for me

 

[xsarien]

I really, truly, couldn't care less about the graphics. So many developers get so damned caught up in making everything look so damned pretty that they forget to actually make the game fun.

 

[Ark-AMN]

I really, truly, couldn't care less about the graphics. So many developers get so damned caught up in making everything look pretty that they forget to actually make the game fun.

QFFT

 

[AndoCalrissian]

2-3x this?

I'm down.

 

[GaimeGuy]

2-3x this?

I'm down.

God I love how the RS games look.

 

[Luckett_X]

Hey cool, maybe Factor5 will really get to grips with the Rev's power then..........oh, no wait!

But hey, RE4 looked really good. I'm sure RE5 on Rev will.........oh....shit.

I'm down.

 

[Yamauchi]

To make me happy they'd have to be better than X360 launch games. The reality is, of course, that I probably won't be happy.

 

[polg]

as long as it looks better than Kameo...
(too plasticky)

 

[Diffense]

100 feet in the air and bored as hell. Looks like a labotomy patient.

My thoughts exactly!

I'd rather a simple sylized character than one which looks realistic but animates like a zombie. The animals are Animal Crossing impress me more than 'prettier' models I've seen in some other games.

 

[EternalDarko]

Hey cool, maybe Factor5 will really get to grips with the Rev's power then..........oh, no wait!

But hey, RE4 looked really good. I'm sure RE5 on Rev will.........oh....shit.

I'm down.

How fanatical of you. Never has anyone said that RE5 would not be coming to Rev.

 

[Sunski]

2-3x this?

I'm down.

What makes me laugh is that this (as a pure gameplay screenshot) looks as good as any of the next gen stuff we have been shown, and seeing as Rev is apparently 3 to 4x more powerful than GC...

I guess it all comes down to how many tricks a dev can pull out of the bag.

 

[xexex]

Revolution's graphics should be higher polygon and higher framerate than Xbox360. since Nintendo is not pushing HDTV 720p or 1080i, and only going with 480p which is fine, the extra GPU processing power saved should go into making the graphics more detailed and smoother.


I want Zelda Oracle television commercial CG level visuals in Revolution games.

lots of anti-aliasing and motionblur like real CG. Nintendo can make their games stand out, less emphesis on high-resolution and high-texture detail, more emphesis on complex models, environments, lighting, motion-blurr, etc.


another important point is, you dont need high-resolution to get CG graphics. you can watch a CG movie like Finding Nemo, Toy Story, etc on super LOW resolution VHS tape on your VCR, and the graphics of the movie blow away any highres videogame graphics on PC, Xbox or PS3 out of the water

oh and I think Revolution games should use 8x or 16x anti-aliasing. or whatever was used in the Spaceworld 2000 prerendered demos for Metroid and WaveRace.

 

[xexex]

Even if it can handle UE3 what are the chances it will make it? Could GC handle UE2? I'm just saying Nintendo haven't exactly been proactive in getting quality third party games on GC. Hopefully they change this aproach with Revolution, but it's too soon to tell.

As far as Rev being 2 - 3 times more powerful than GC, I think it depends on your perspective. If someone said GC and PS2 are 2 - 3 times as powerful as N64 and PlayStation I can see that point, just like SNES and Genesis were 2 - 3 times as powerful as NES & SMS. The lack of news on the graphical capabilities for Revolution is starting to have a negative effect toward Nintendo though. The controller alone will only get them so far. They need to announce something and they need to do it well before E3 unless they want to see the same thing that happened to GC happen to Rev.

Gamecube was several DOZEN times more powerful than Nintendo64.

 

[cvxfreak]

I'll take a realtime RE0/REmake as next gen - with even more detail too.

 

[xexex]

Just for kicks and giggles, here are some screenshots:

Metroid Prime 2

Metroid Prime 3

Metroid Prime

No way would I settle for this if this is all the improvements we'll see.

If Revolution was able to rival the quality of graphics in the Metroid CG from Spaceworld 2000

I'd be satisfied.

aAnd no, the Gamecube does not produce that quality in its games. that Metroid CG has a fairly high-polygon Samus, true motion blur, a high level of anti-aliasing and per-pixel lighting, amoung other things. hopefully ATI's Hollywood GPU for Revolution will be able to produce this stuff in-game.

 

[BobTheFork]

I need to see the same gap from Xbox to Rev that I saw from Ps2 to Xbox. I have only played xbox a few times, but playing Fight Night 2 on ps2 then on Xbox was such a nice suprise. If nintendo is really going to low-ball the competition, I dont need the Rev to look like the MGS4 trailer.

 

[xexex]

I want at least FFVII tech demo quality gphx. I'm not quite fond of the doom3/quake4/ue3 style gphx, which seem well suited for tightly armored foot soldiers, but not for characters with loose clothing.

agreed. I think Doom3 level graphics would be shit. (i hate the low polygon look) Doom3 is closer to current generation than next-gen. Doom3 was done on Xbox, although scaled down somewhat.

Doom3 was made for DX7/DX8 level hardware, although it runs better on current DX9 hardware but isnt using DX9 level shaders.

Revolution is supposed to have DX9 level shaders according to ATI.

circa 2003

ATI gave some infomation on video cards market pentration data, and had a quick gloat about being in both Microsoft's and Nintendo's next gen console, no real info on them (obviously) except for one tiny snippet, that we should expect at least Dx9 level shaders on both.

http://tinyurl.com/7foda

 

[xexex]

btw, on Nintendo's next-next generation system, Revolution's successor (and yes there will be one dispite what some idiot from Red Herring says) I expect the level of graphics in-game to be somewhat like....

 

[blackadde]

agreed. I think Doom3 level graphics would be shit. (i hate the low polygon look) Doom3 is closer to current generation than next-gen. Doom3 was done on Xbox, although scaled down somewhat.

Doom3 was made for DX7/DX8 level hardware, although it runs better on current DX9 hardware but isnt using DX9 level shaders.

Revolution is supposed to have DX9 level shaders according to ATI.

circa 2003



http://tinyurl.com/7foda

Uh .. D3 is OpenGL.

 

[tahrikmili]

agreed. I think Doom3 level graphics would be shit. (i hate the low polygon look) Doom3 is closer to current generation than next-gen. Doom3 was done on Xbox, although scaled down somewhat.

Doom3 was made for DX7/DX8 level hardware, although it runs better on current DX9 hardware but isnt using DX9 level shaders.

Revolution is supposed to have DX9 level shaders according to ATI.

circa 2003



http://tinyurl.com/7foda

It was scaled down "somewhat" ?? Somewhat meaning, it had shit for textures and blocks for models?

If you want to see what Doom 3 looks like, try it on the PC. It's every bit as good as any game the next gen has offered so far.

And of course Doom 3 isn't using DX9 shaders, it's not even a DX game. It does however use OpenGL effects that are comparable to DX9 class shaders.

 

[elostyle]

Doom 3 has the best global lighting still. Of course if by "next gen" you mean same old with higher res textures and some heat and water shaders, then have at it

 

[tahrikmili]

Here are some "shit" Doom 3 screenshots I haven't seen the "next gen" surpass in a game released so far..