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[studyguy]

I'm simply disappointed at general democratic turnout. I don't blame anyone in particular more than people simply getting complacent with the Obama era progressivism.
At worst we'll have a supreme court that sides strongly conservative if Ginsburg or Kennedy kicks the bucket till we're all old and gray.

I have little faith in a rally by 2018 and the bench is thin for 2020. The generation as a whole for the Dems failed outright. At best we blunt the scotus if Ginsburg and Kennedy stick around and we pull something out of our ass in 2020, I'm not sure if that's long enough for Trump to cause serious issues that delegitimize the RNC enough to sway votes, but we'll see.

Midterm is gonna matter like crazy cause if we don't turn out, Dems walk into another bloodbath.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Unfortunate, a lot of women buy into the patriarchy. They likely saw Trump's behavior as strong and endearing, and much preferred that over 'her'.

Yeah, this is the underrated point of this election too. For all I've heard from white "feminists" about the importance of intersectionality and the patriarchy over the past several years, those words now ring hollow to me that 53% of white women voted in favour of Trump. Not only does it imply the whole internalize misogyny narrative, it also implies that there is a massive race issue in the feminism right now - something women of colour have been screaming about for years while white women spent time taking slut walks and fighting to ban "bossy".

 

[bob_arctor]

Lesson here, which I thought we learned in 2004, is that people don't vote against another candidate – they vote FOR a candidate. Hillary's entire campaign was effectively, "Isn't this Trump guy just the absolute worst?"

If this were actually true, Trump would not have gotten elected either.

 

[Audioboxer]

Well, what have we learned here?

People don't give a shit about platforms. Get a likable and charismatic candidate and they win this election.

Article doesn't mention that Dem turnout was down 20%. Cut that by a little, she wins comfortably.

Ignoring this stupidly done graph, this is sadly true

Her campaign and the Democrat campaign to come for 2020 have to find out why they bled so many votes and re-energize some of these people.

And Obama's smile makes me sad.

 

[guek]

Thanks. Okay so we can say for sure is that she got less votes from AA than Obama did. She did not do as well with Hispanics or Asians but she still could have gotten around the same number of votes as Obama because more Hispanic and Asian voters participated in this election. FWIW, the Hispanic vote statics are mind boggling but partisan voting is a real thing, I guess.

Sadly, no one cares about the Asian vote. We're the forgotten minority, though some of that may be because the community's most pressing concern isn't income inequality or police brutality but rather stuff like opposing affirmative action.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm not saying women and minorities favored Trump. I'm saying there was a higher percentage of them that did than was expected. It was largely made out that Trump would get almost no female or Latino vote, and that clearly didn't come to fruition.

You said strongly in large numbers....

Those are not large numbers nor an indication of voting strongly.

 

[SDCowboy]

You said strongly in large numbers....

Those are not large numbers nor an indication of voting strongly.

Sorry, I mean relative to predictions. I worded it poorly.

 

[BFIB]

Can't say I'm surprised at the women vote. A lot of baby boomers still have the attitude towards themselves that Trump expects them to be.

 

[Lyn]

Actually the exit polls weren't much of an issue this year - it was the "early vote" number assumptions that threw everyone off. Plus the outcome didn't jive with regular polling before the election.

Ah okay, guess that is where I was getting confused then. Thanks!

 

[Infinite]

It literally tells you in the first post?

Blacks



Hispanics



Asians, didn't mention previous years just this year



Whites are obviously the majority of the US.

And they overwhelmingly voted trump. Let that sink in

 

[Audioboxer]

And they overwhelmingly voted trump. Let that sink in

I know this. Statistically though those who have voted republican stayed voting republican. Last 3 elections has the figures above, 59m, 60m, 59m. If anyone expected a mass swing from the kinds of people that can be cool with the things the republican party stand for, and have for many years, your expectations were out of line.

Hence why Clinton trying to use Trump to get hardcore republicans to change side utterly failed. The obsession with basing her campaign around this did nothing to red votes, but arguably caused blue voters to siphon off from supporting her.

More white people voted Romney than Obama

White 72%

39%
vs
59%

http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/how-groups-voted-2012/

People need to start seeing this as white voting republican rather than white voting Trump. Sadly that angle as I said above may have cost Clinton votes, or at least made her campaign too much about "look how shit Trump is".

 

[Dre3001]

Really surprising that so many women supported trump even after his comments.


Seems like the patriarchy system is still as prevalent as ever despite what people say.

 

[kswiston]

Does the "68% of voters were white" only include non-hispanic whites or is it all whites?

 

[sazzy]

Hillary's campaign staff completely fucked up.

There's a story each on WaPo NYT and Politico today with anecdotes of incompetence by Mook et al.

How they fucking missed WI MI PA is beyond me.

I don't know what world Hillary and her staff were living in but it was clearly not rooted in reality.

 

[JustenP88]

If you winning hinges on netting 90+% of a single demographic, you're probably going to get rolled over.

I'm not blaming minorities/African Americans. 88% is a damn good number.

 

[Soulscribe]

It's hard for me to see this as primarily her failure so much as ours. People should have known better than to stay home, that's it.

 

[Chococat]

The women vote still makes me smh.

I guess a lot of women would prefer to support a misogynist than a woman for presidency.

Drive by post like this are insulting and ignore the deep culture issue that exist.

Considering how being a feminist is an insult in American society, sadly I am not surprised.

Some women honestly believe in the patriarchy model that God intended.

Fighting against misogyny maybe a value a woman has, but just rank lower compared to say jobs or taxes.

I would love for misogyny to end, but honestly, people only care about misogynist when it was used against Trump. In their everyday life, most ignore its effects because it benefits them.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Does the "68% of voters were white" only include non-hispanic whites or is it all whites?

It's excluding hispanic.

I even made a mistake, it's actually 69%.

 

[Lonely1]

As a Mexican (living is Mexico) it always puzzled me how Latino is always treated like a single block on this type of analysis. Cuban exiles have a very different history and world view than the Michoacanos in Chicago, and (many) Guatemalans hate our guts. I would think that a sizeable group didn't make the connection that Mexican was Trumpism for everything south the border. And i'm not talking about the divisions within singular countries.

 

[Audioboxer]

It's hard for me to see this as primarily her failure so much as ours. People should have known better than to stay home, that's it.

True, but humans are diverse individuals and get "turned on" in different ways (had to put that in " as I don't mean sexually...). I too lambaste people who don't bother to vote, but a political campaign that spends unholy millions of $ has to work to energize these people, and obviously it failed pretty spectacularly.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Did anyone genuinely believe Hillary would pull more voters of any demographic than Obama? Maybe I am naive cause I dont find this surpriing. Minorities still came out and voted in large percentages for the Dems. I guess they gotta come out in even more force though since it clearly wasnt enough.

 

[E92 M3]

Obama's campaign had a message and so did Trump's. What was Hillary's message? Hillary's ads were always attacking Trump - everything focused on being anti-trump instead of what she wanted to do for the people.

Her staff did a horrible job, unfortunately.

 

[Audioboxer]

Did anyone genuinely believe Hillary would pull more voters of any demographic than Obama? Maybe I am naive cause I dont find this surpriing. Minorities still came out and voted in large percentages for the Dems. I guess they gotta come out in even more force though since it clearly wasnt enough.

No, but this time around there was a lot of people saying "first woman", like Obama being "first black". Unfortunately Clinton was nowhere near as liked as Obama, and arguably ran a worse campaign. I'm with her vs Hope. Heck even Make America Great Again was begrudgingly better than Clinton's effort. Campaigns shouldn't be won on fucking slogans, but as I said above different voters get turned on in different ways. It's up to political campaigns to get this.

People on GAF screaming their heads off at anyone who liked Bernie because "this was Americas first time to have a woman" ultimately seemed to bite off more than they could chew.

 

[sazzy]

My opinion that Hillary's campaign screwed up royally is only strengthened:

Last year, a prominent group of supporters asked Hillary Clinton to address a prestigious St. Patrick’s Day gathering at the University of Notre Dame, an invitation that previous presidential candidates had jumped on.

Barack Obama and Joseph R. Biden Jr. had each addressed the group, and former President Bill Clinton was eager for his wife to attend. But Mrs. Clinton’s campaign refused, explaining to the organizers that white Catholics were not the audience she needed to spend time reaching out to.

And she ceded the white working-class voters who backed Mr. Clinton in 1992. Though she would never have won this demographic, her husband insisted that her campaign aides do more to try to cut into Mr. Trump’s support with these voters. They declined, reasoning that she was better off targeting college-educated suburban voters by hitting Mr. Trump on his temperament.

Mrs. Clinton’s campaign tested out 84 slogans. There was “She’s Got Your Back,” “Strength You Can Count On” and “Real Fairness, Real Solutions.”

“Do we have any sense from her what she believes or wants her core message to be?” Joel Benenson, the campaign’s chief strategist and pollster, asked the chairman of her campaign, John D. Podesta, ahead of a New Hampshire speech, according to a hacked email that was among the thousands released by WikiLeaks.

Early on, Mr. Clinton had pleaded with Robby Mook, Mrs. Clinton’s campaign manager, to do more outreach with working-class white and rural voters. But his advice fell on deaf ears.

Former Gov. Edward G. Rendell of Pennsylvania also said he had encouraged campaign aides at Mrs. Clinton’s Brooklyn headquarters to spread their vast resources outside Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and focus on rural white pockets of the state. “We had the resources to do both,” Mr. Rendell said Wednesday. “The campaign — and this was coming from Brooklyn — didn’t want to do it.” (Mr. Trump won Pennsylvania by one percentage point.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/u...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

That list of slogans btw:


They paid $3 million for this.

There was policy complacency: Clinton never developed the kind of central animating idea or program that wins elections and can be communicated in a heartbeat. “Stronger Together’’ is a slogan, but not a call to arms. Nor did she heed the signs. Last spring, the Bernie Sanders insurgency delivered a powerful piece of intelligence to Clinton world, that the status quo was not cutting it with the Democratic base, and that she was far from universally liked even in her own party. She made some concessions to the Sanders-nistas in the Democratic platform over the summer, then largely reverted to form.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-loses-2016-complacency-214445

 

[Chris R]

We also need to look at voter suppression as a factor.

Voter suppression is a real thing, but voter apathy was the bigger issue this election. If 2012 Dems voted, this would have been a landslide.

 

[kswiston]

It's excluding hispanic.

I even made a mistake, it's actually 69%.

So white people are over represented in the vote vs general populace. Is that due to turnout or fewer black/hispanic americans being qualified to vote?

 

[shintoki]

I'll be blunt, the DNC, Clinton, and her feverish fanbase blew a 3 to 1 lead. That is who we should be angry at. Not breakdowns like this. Why? Everyone across the board is lower. The DNC refused to listen to any of the signs, ignored every group and took their votes for granted(Black, White, Hispanic, etc), and basically propped up a Candidate who people just did not like.

The party failed us or better to say, we allowed the party fail us. Basically, we as Democratics settled while the Republicans did not.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

No, but this time around there was a lot of people saying "first woman", like Obama being "first black". Unfortunately Clinton was nowhere near as liked as Obama, and arguably ran a worse campaign. I'm with her vs Hope. Heck even Make America Great Again was begrudgingly better than Clinton's effort. Campaigns shouldn't be won on fucking slogans, but as I said above different voters get turned on in different ways. It's up to political campaigns to get this.

People on GAF screaming their heads off at anyone who liked Bernie because "this was Americas first time to have a woman" ultimately seemed to bite off more than they could chew.

I woulda loved Bernie but that isnt really the discussion is it? Is the basis of this information more Hillary didnt resonate with voters or minorities didnt turn up.

Cause Obama is imo a very tough act to follow for minority voter percentage.

 

[FLAguy954]

Every single demographic gave Hilary less support than Obama. Hispanics, African-Americans, Asians, White people. Yet it is somehow not Hilary's fault that she lost.

It's not, that fault lies squarely on the absentee voters who that their vote didn't matter.

 

[Croatoan]

I was 100% sure Clinton was going to win and win big due to the grab em by the P comments that was leaked 2 weeks earlier. I just couldn't imagine many woman voting for Trump after that, and all the women in my life told me that Trump was a disgusting pig and no sane women would vote for him.

So to me its completely shocking that 42% of women still voted for him. I thought 10-15% tops, maybe, and that would lose him the election.

When you live in an echo chamber it can be hard to understand the real world.

MSM, and Idendity Politics cost Hillary Obama's white vote. Apathy for her among minorities cost her the election.

 

[kswiston]

As a Mexican (living is Mexico) it always puzzled me how Latino is always treated like a single block on this type of analysis. Cuban exiles have a very different history and world view than the Michoacanos in Chicago, and (many) Guatemalans hate our guts. I would think that a sizeable group didn't make the connection that Mexican was Trumpism for everything south the border. And i'm not talking about the divisions within singular countries.

Asians are all lumped together and they range from current racial punching bags to a step away from honorary white-hood.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

So white people are over represented in the vote vs general populace. Is that due to turnout or fewer black/hispanic americans being qualified to vote?

Voter suppression is my guess, especially when you consider how strong the older white demographic is, and how that is also the minority group that has for decades had numerous difficulties placed on them in the way of getting suffrage

 

[ExVicis]

This is what Hillary diehards said would happen if Bernie was the nom >_<

It's the very definition of irony. She was picked to get all these votes and be a sure-win and instead she ended up being the risky one instead.

 

[Kreed]

Ignoring this stupidly done graph, this is sadly true

http://i.imgur.com/TOGIbcP.jpg[IMG]

Her campaign and the Democrat campaign to come for 2020 have to find out why they bled so many votes and re-energize some of these people.

And Obama's smile makes me sad.[/QUOTE]

This should probably be in the OP since the lower Democratic turn out is also affecting the percentages in the OP.

 

[ReAxion]

splitting it down like this doesn't matter when likely democrat voters didn't even show, en masse. it wasn't the right time for Hillary and the DNC didn't listen.

 

[captive]

Voter surpression first off.


Secondly, it is not up to minorities to save this party. And we tried anyway, despite reservations.

Nah, shift the blame where it is earned. The party, and the people who voted for Trump.

its not any one voting blocks fault. Its crazy to me that Trump won with less votes than Romney got. That really tells me democrats and independents didnt turn out for Clinton, cause, she was a bad candidate, despite my change in opinion, my initial opinion was that she was not a good candidate, along with many others here and elsewhere.

The women vote still makes me smh.

I guess a lot of women would prefer to support a misogynist than a woman for presidency.

thats really crazy

 

[Audioboxer]

I woulda loved Bernie but that isnt really the discussion is it? Is the basis of this information more Hillary didnt resonate with voters or minorities didnt turn up.

Cause Obama is imo a very tough act to follow for minority voter percentage.

It was more so a prod at how feverish internal fighting got by supporters of the Democratic party that they were turning on their own in ways that weren't just a difference of opinion, but outright annexing off people and telling them to STFU.

 

[Neoweee]

This is what Hillary diehards said would happen if Bernie was the nom >_<

What evidence was there at all that Bernie could turn out minorities in his favor?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

As I said, anytime Democrats lose, it's because the block didn't turn out to vote. There are (I believe) more democratic voters than republican voters (volume). Whether they get up and vote is another matter.

Then again, she did win the popular vote.

Maybe as voting technology advances and becomes easier (people not having to stand in lines for hours, for example), we'll see a higher % of the general population voting.

What evidence was there at all that Bernie could turn out minorities in his favor?

Absolutely none.

But I will also continue to say: this wouldn't have happened to Diamond Joe Biden. Even if he only managed to get the same portion of minority voters, he would have gotten far more white men and women to vote for him than HIllary did. I don't even think that's a debate. It is just too bad that Joe didn't want the crown; it was his to take.

 

[autoduelist]

The women vote still makes me smh.

I guess a lot of women would prefer to support a misogynist than a woman for presidency.

Not everybody votes the same issues as you do. Not everyone has the same concerns, or the same dreams for our country. For example, if someone has a family, and they personally think the economy is more important than [insert your beliefs], and they think Trump/Republicans are better for the economy, they might hold their nose and vote for Trump.

This reductionism to race/gender is not how most people vote. Sure, some people voted for HRC because they wanted the first women president, or because they didn't want Trump, or xyz. Others voted the issues. It's the same on the other side.

A pretty good article on the related subject, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/opinion/absorbing-the-impossible.html

 

[Principate]

It's not, that fault lies squarely on the absentee voters who that their vote didn't matter.

Nah it lies squarely on Clinton, if run in a elected position any elected position whether it be class president or actual president blaming your loss on fact people didn't vote for you is an admission in itself of your inadequacies people don't have to vote and she does have to be president. This is a democracy and it her and her campaigns job to get people to vote for her success and failure is dependent entirely on that and clearly Clinton failed in getting the people in positions that matter to go out and vote for her.

Not everybody votes the same issues as you do. Not everyone has the same concerns, or the same dreams for our country. For example, if someone has a family, and they personally think the economy is more important than [insert your beliefs], and they think Trump/Republicans are better for the economy, they might hold their nose and vote for Trump.

This reductionism to race/gender is not how most people vote. Sure, some people voted for HRC because they wanted the first women president, or because they didn't want Trump, or xyz. Others voted the issues. It's the same on the other side.

A pretty good article on the related subject, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/09/opinion/absorbing-the-impossible.html

For a woman a vote for Trump is an implicit endorsement or at least being perfectly ok with sexual harassment and assault. This is a guy that brags about sexually assaulting women. It's fucked up regardless of the other aspects of his campaign you agree with. it's like a Black or a Mexican being ok with his shit despite how much vile racism he's spewed and encourages.

 

[KingBroly]

Voter suppression is a real thing, but voter apathy was the bigger issue this election. If 2012 Dems voted, this would have been a landslide.

2 hated candidates = low voter turnout

Been saying it for months, people kept telling me RECORD VOTING NUMBERS so much that I just shut up about it until it happened and I could point back to it.

It's Political Campaigns 101

 

[Goodstyle]

What evidence was there at all that Bernie could turn out minorities in his favor?

This. Minorities were less enthusiastic about Bernie than they were of Hillary by a large margin. Bernie's only advantage was with white voters, but I doubt that would have held given his troubling ties to communism and his idiotic breadline comment.

 

[shintoki]

This. Minorities were less enthusiastic about Bernie than they were of Hillary by a large margin. Bernie's only advantage was with white voters, but I doubt that would have held given his troubling ties to communism and his idiotic breadline comment.

Bernie did better in states Hillary lost like MI and WI.

Hillary did better in states she lost, like the entire south.

I think the argument is completely useless if he would have done better or not, but it's more the fact Clinton did not do anything during her campaign for those states she lost during the Primary. Which ended up costing her the election here.

 

[illmatic22]

I'll be blunt, the DNC, Clinton, and her feverish fanbase blew a 3 to 1 lead. That is who we should be angry at. Not breakdowns like this. Why? Everyone across the board is lower. The DNC refused to listen to any of the signs, ignored every group and took their votes for granted(Black, White, Hispanic, etc), and basically propped up a Candidate who people just did not like.

The party failed us or better to say, we allowed the party fail us. Basically, we as Democratics settled while the Republicans did not.

.

Give the poc a better candidate in 4 years.

 

[Elandyll]

There's enough blame for everybody to go around, with evidence:

-Clinton campaign for ignoring the rust belt and betting everything on high turnout for Latinos, Blacks and Women. All three were down compared to Obama afaik, but also the White vote (particularly in Rust Belt area).
-Hillary Clinton herself for her chronic need for secrecy, and some stupid choices (email server being one, but also a few others)
-Bill Clinton for stupid shaddy appearances Trump could latch on (e.g. meeting with AG on tarmac), also saying stupid stuff about the ACA.
- Bernie Sanders for whipping his crowd into a frenzy about Wall Street and Corruption, some of them becoming never Hillary's
- Minorities, Youth and Women voters for not turning out more in spite of facing probably the worst candidate in the history of this country with Trump
- Comey/ FBI for intervening in a crucial election for no good reason, trashing the FBI's reputation in the process
- Wikileaks for being puppets of Russia and interfering in the US election, selectively releasing hacked emails targeting one campaign
- DNC for picking a side in a supposedly democratic process. They didn't even have to do that, they set the rules and then were all shaddy about it, reinforcing Clinton's appearance of corruption in the process
- Third parties, obviously serving as a "principled escape hatch" for ex-Bernie's, Stein in particular.
- The News TV Media for giving Trump, being so entertaining and good for ratings, a free platform he could run on. Himself or his surrogates constantly lying with impunity, rarely challenged with facts, including with the debates. Also latching on emails like rabid dogs, in spite of being no there-there.
- The more liberal media (press in particular) for ignoring / dismissing Trump from the get go, treating him as a joke, and often dismissing his electorate or not trying to analyze why they would vote for him too (besides a racist/ xenophobic core existing which I estimate at about 20%).
- Pollsters for having totally failed at accurately represent the real white anger wave that was growing in the more rural areas, and just how much that would play in Mi/ Wi/ Pa and even Oh to some extent (they did predict that last one, just not how big).
- Latinos. 30% for Trump? Un-believable.


But on top of that, as much as I hate the Orange Terrible, I'm going to have to admit that he ran a very smart campaign, and whoever decided to target the Rust Belt was a genius.
He lost all 3 debates by most measures, insulted and demeaned a large swath of people based on gender, race, disability or simply having slighted him.
He is on record with extremely racist actions and words, boasting of sexually assaulting women, cheating on his wife, has been accused of multiple counts of alleged rape, is sued for fraud, and the list goes on ... and he wins the office.

So... "Respect" for playing the system (and the people).. if nothing else?

 

[Astral Dog]

I dont see much difference tbh, the only number that shocked me was the people that didnt vote

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

The AA vote is not th issue here. Clinton's campaign knew they wouldn't get Obama's numbers, that was taken into account. But she got real close. Between that and voter suppression, she did perfectly well with African-Americans. They came out for her as much as they could.

Trump doing as well or better than Romney with Latinos is the real story here. Latino pollster Latino Decisions was polling very frequently and regularly had him in the teens. Huge, huge miss.

 

[Eidan]

It's never a good idea to allineate 40% of your potential (majority) ethnic electorate though

How were whites alienated? They always vote Republican.

 

[Goodstyle]

Bernie did better in states Hillary lost like MI and WI.

Hillary did better in states she lost, like the entire south....

I'm not saying Bernie would have been better or worse against Trump. Who knows, he may have won. I just don't think he would have survived the Breadline tape, the USSR honeymoon, the "women fantasize about being raped" college paper, the "white people don't know what poverty is like" debate gaffe, and the "no one should have 1 million" dollars comment he made. Those seem like poison to white voters, but who knows. I was wrong about this election, so I could be wrong about this hypothetical Bernie election.