-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
How is the Blue Shell anything but terrible game design?
- Thread starter Nazgul_Hunter
- Start date
Choppasmith
Member
I LOVE it when that happens, that or taking down other racers with me that are close by.
People say Mario Kart is a serious racer, but for me it is just too 'arcadey'. It is time to get serious to be a contender; just get rid of the blue shell. You don't have to go full on kart sim mode, either, but I am tired of no skill blue shells.
Riposte
Member
This one time I was mushroom'ing through a patch of rough grass and on my last boost, while in the middle of the patch, I get hit by lightning. Ruined my race, ruined my night. Mario Kart is not good for my heart.
EDIT: Ricochet green shells piss me off more than blue shells. That's more random.
Not sure about this, these items can't stop Blue Shells.
The only item that stops Blue Shells is scarce, and I think it's that way for a reason.
If you make one turn too slow, you'll probably get in second.
If you bump into a corner by accident, you'll probably get passed.
If you miss an opportunity to boost, you might get passed.
If you aren't always getting shells or bananas, you're vulnerable.
EDIT: Keeping first place is easy if you race flawlessly, or if your competition sucks.
Revolutionary
Member
It's the worst. It has an unlimited range, right?
Because the Quake in WipEout fizzles out eventually, so a person in last place firing it off most likely won't hit the person in first unless they're fairly close (which is unlikely).
Because the Quake in WipEout fizzles out eventually, so a person in last place firing it off most likely won't hit the person in first unless they're fairly close (which is unlikely).
HypnoDarkrai
Member
It can hit other racers along the way.
I think triple red shells in 2nd is worse.
Punishes fire hoppers.
I think triple red shells in 2nd is worse.
Play in frantic mode. Get mushrooms in first place. Dodge the blue shell like a pro. It's actually very easy to do. There are actually lots of ways to mitigate the problems caused by the blue shell. Super Horn, Mushrom dodging, Star Power (if you're lucky enough to get into first while carrying a star), slowing down so that it takes out second place as well, or just being so far ahead that others can't catch up to you before you recover (not as hard as it sounds, at least offline).
And it's a little more balanced in that it takes out any player it hits on the way to 1st place. And it's pretty rare. Especially getting more than 1 per race. The only instance where it is a significant game changer is when it shows up very late into the race and you don't have time to recover, which is pretty rare.
Lightning is the real enemy. It gets rid of your items so people can pelt you with red and green shells. Lightning, red shells, and green shells have caused me way more problems than the blue shell.
And it's a little more balanced in that it takes out any player it hits on the way to 1st place. And it's pretty rare. Especially getting more than 1 per race. The only instance where it is a significant game changer is when it shows up very late into the race and you don't have time to recover, which is pretty rare.
Lightning is the real enemy. It gets rid of your items so people can pelt you with red and green shells. Lightning, red shells, and green shells have caused me way more problems than the blue shell.
snoopeasystreet
Member
The blue shell is reasonably fine, it keeps the pack together and competitive.
The problem with Mario Kart's balance is the weighting on items base on what position you're in.
The problem with Mario Kart's balance is the weighting on items base on what position you're in.
You really need something to hit the 1stplace. I can tell you many times in MK7 local plays I've been so close to taking out the 1st place just to be hit with a red shell from the 3rd, I'm either forced to use my item on self defense, or get hit before I can even take out that defensive bannana off the 1st place. You either hope a blue shell comes or talk with the 3rd place to stop hitting you until you get a clean shoot on the 1st guy
bigDdestruction
Member
I managed to dodge the blue shell by using my red mushroom at just the right time just before the impact of the shell. I also learned that driving off the edge as the blue shell is about to hit you is the best option since lakitu is much faster at placing you back on track in this game and it completely cancels out the blue shell.
Yes it is. The best position to be in MK8 is in 1st while everyone behind them battles and lets first place get even further ahead. The items that can hurt the first player like the boomerang or triple red shells are seldom obtained in second place. The only way to stop someone in first without a blue shell against someone in a kart with high speed is to hope they get a coin as an item. It's the reason why heavy classes dominate in the game.
Even with this blue shells are usually seen once a game in 8, occasionally twice and occasionally never(latter being more frequent of these two). On top of that there is also the super horn that is incredibly rare but also hugely beneficial.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Did anyone actually read the hop's gripe with the blue shell?
Japanmanx3
Member
lol never thought I'd be quoting you, in a Nintendo thread of all things lol. But I understand that Penn and Teller reference lol.
As far as the blue shell however it keeps things spicy. It never bothered me badly except maybe on MKWii. But otherwise the rubber banding on other Kart Games pisses me off way more than anything on Mario Kart.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
I haven't really played MK in years, but it seems that on a comoetitive level it's terrible, but on a party level it's just for fun. I guess it depends on what you want out of MK. I personal don't like the idea of it.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Blue shells are very rare in MK8 though. You might not even see them in a match. And if you've been using bananas/green shells properly, you haven't been hit by red shells, so you're so far in front of everyone else that the blue shell doesn't even matter.
Obviously this is assuming you're not terrible enough to mess up a turn or forget to do a trick lol, and once you get a shell or banana you just hold onto it.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If you get it in 12th, I don't think it's actually about helping you, but about making you not feel so bad.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Another instance where Mario Kart should have taken a page out CTR's item balance. CTR's "blue shell" (the time warp) would hit everyone in front of you if it was juiced up. You can still get hit by the blue shell in MK8 if you're not in 1st, but you can just as easily dodge it. It's actually easier to dodge than a green/red shell/fire/boomarang. So the problem remains largely the same. The small tweak of having everyone ahead of you automatically be targeted would do wonders in making the blue shell a fair item that actually gives the user a chance to catch up.
Trigonometrize.
Member
commentary on capitalism
The first line is exactly why I feel blue shell is needed. The other stuff is a "not really". In MK8 if you get out in front and get hold of a banana or shell, you more often than not just keep extending your lead because 2nd-12th are spamming each other with shells. So even a mistake taking a corner or missing a boost isn't going to lose you a position because you're so far out in front. It's like if I look at the minimap and I see someone out in front with a banana I can tell that 90% of the time they're going to win. Sometimes even a blue shell isn't enough. A blue shell isn't even that common, I'd estimate I see one like once every 2-3 races?
InsaneZero
Member
The only other thing that bypasses a shell or banana is lightning, and that hits everyone. That fact alone makes it incredibly easy to stay ahead.
In short, if the player doesn't have the actual skill to stay in first they won't be in first? What a crazy idea.
If every player had the same level of ability, first place would have an insurmountable advantage without the blue shell.
The fact that it doesnt help the guy who gets it? I thought that was the point? "So you are 10th, well too bad, have this item that doesnt help you because you are already way behind to even come back.
At least in MK7 (and I assume MK8) the Blue shell travels close to the ground so it can hit other cars
Altered Juice
Member
punished for being first? lol
It's a decelerator for the person in first. It balances out the natural accelerator the first place guy has. Once someone gets a lead in Mario Kart, they escape from the clusterfuck of shells and items behind them, causing their lead to get bigger and bigger even if they're not outplaying their opponents. The blue shell counteracts that.
Where they fuck up with it is in not being selective enough. Blue shells would be fair if they only targeted people with significant leads, but the way they're implemented, they'll fuck you up even if it's neck-and-neck and you're barely in first.
Where they fuck up with it is in not being selective enough. Blue shells would be fair if they only targeted people with significant leads, but the way they're implemented, they'll fuck you up even if it's neck-and-neck and you're barely in first.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
I bet you never complain when it benefits you. Like others have said if you manage to build a lead you're untouchable because everyone else is scrapping among themselves. It's an attempt to remedy that. I find that if I'm that much quicker than everyone else a blue shell won't even be enough for others to catch up.
Oops, looks like I was guilty of this. It does carve through everyone on it's way so it does benefit the user.
Oops, looks like I was guilty of this. It does carve through everyone on it's way so it does benefit the user.
When you're talking about "serious" competitive play like the OP apparently wants it to be, it's not there for balance. It's there just to add fun and stop things from becoming overly lopsided if that happens.. but what if it's a close race? The person marginally in first place might become 5th in a split second.
It's meant to be a party game, not a balanced competitive game.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Also why are people automatically equating a preference for rewarding skill rather than luck with wanting a super serious/realistic racer?
Super Mario Kart didn't have a blue shell and it was still a kart racer.
Super Mario Kart didn't have a blue shell and it was still a kart racer.
If you don't take the game too seriously it makes it even more fun when playing locally. Online it's more about real competition so I can understand not liking it, but playing Mario Kart with a group of friends in person is all about those WTF moments where everyone is yelling cause some bullshit thing happened.
That's right. So you're agreeing that, keeping first place is easy only if you're good.
Exactly.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Without the blue shell, you'd be rewarding luck more than anything else. If you're lucky enough to get in first and get good defensive items, you'll stay in first forever if you're a skillful racer. If you're good at racing as well, you'll be far enough in first that the blue shell won't hurt you. If you're not that good and prone to mistake, the blue shell will send you back a few places.
Yes, but in a room full of good people, the person who gets to first place first has a huge advantage over everyone else.
Well if you are neck to neck it will hit both 1st and 2nd (either by accident, or on purpose by the 1st place, I've done this a couple of times). The worst is when you are ahead but not by much, nothing you can do there.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
It exists or moments like this:
Ooccoo
Member
I still don't understand how Nintendo could not give us:
Trust me I like Mario Kart 8 but it's not a $69.99 game to me. The tracks look great and some are genuinely fun, but there are not enough features. Also I'm pretty pissed off they removed cool items like the Fake Item Box or Boo. They also removed the possibility to have an extra power-up, which kinda sucks.
And knowing Nintendo they won't ever release DLC (free or paid) even though there's a lot of potential for extra maps, items, characters, etc.
- Stats
- Some kind of career mode (or Arcade)
- A proper Battle mode
Trust me I like Mario Kart 8 but it's not a $69.99 game to me. The tracks look great and some are genuinely fun, but there are not enough features. Also I'm pretty pissed off they removed cool items like the Fake Item Box or Boo. They also removed the possibility to have an extra power-up, which kinda sucks.
And knowing Nintendo they won't ever release DLC (free or paid) even though there's a lot of potential for extra maps, items, characters, etc.
Amazeballs
Member
It makes staying 1st place more risky, making 2nd and 3rd place appealing positions until the last leg of each race. The megaphone item encourages players to use their shells/bananas in hopes of getting a megaphone. You were already supposed to do this in the previous MK, but no system actively encouraged 1st place to use items as anything but one-time shields at lower levels of play.
High level players will game the system by leveraging 2nd or 3rd place and using known item appearance rates to use items more strategically. It becomes sort of like poker in that it's a game of risk/reward and probability.
High level players will game the system by leveraging 2nd or 3rd place and using known item appearance rates to use items more strategically. It becomes sort of like poker in that it's a game of risk/reward and probability.
dragonfart28
Banned
I think it's important to note that the most tragic circumstances after a blue shell hits are extremely rare.
And the new MK does enough to balance the probability of that happening.
It has become a really fun mechanic of the game - and this is coming from someone who's taken their fair share.
And the new MK does enough to balance the probability of that happening.
It has become a really fun mechanic of the game - and this is coming from someone who's taken their fair share.
What if people in the back got mostly non-offensive boosting items and people in the front usually got weapons and shields? Seems like that would fix the issue with front place getting too far ahead.
The main thing I don't like about the Blue Shell is that it rarely helps the people in the back who get it.
The main thing I don't like about the Blue Shell is that it rarely helps the people in the back who get it.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Mario Kart 8 has stats lol. And it's not $69.99 either. What are you talking about? Theres even DLC for the game. Ahhhh
Holy Order Sol
Member
wtf where do they sell it at that price
I like this idea.
InsaneZero
Member
Because taking out the blue shell makes it far more unbalanced in favor of luck. If you're not in first place, you've got threats coming in every direction that sometimes cannot be mitigated. First place doesn't have to worry about this.
It widens the error bars on your chances of winning for being a better player. That would be a bad thing in a game that's otherwise fair, highly competitive, and emphasizes technical play, but Mario Kart isn't really any of those. Its heart and soul is wacky split screen multiplayer with friends, which is reflected in the way the items work.
But hey, you can still set up a hardcore online tournament if you really want.
But hey, you can still set up a hardcore online tournament if you really want.
So, lightning instead of blue shell