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How is the Blue Shell anything but terrible game design?
- Thread starter Nazgul_Hunter
- Start date
ViewtifulJC
Banned
People say "oh the horn makes it fair!"
In my 100+ hours of playing this game, I only JUST got the chance to use the horn to destroy the blue shell. Every other time I just had to hold dat L and watch dudes fly past me.
In my 100+ hours of playing this game, I only JUST got the chance to use the horn to destroy the blue shell. Every other time I just had to hold dat L and watch dudes fly past me.
And how do you get a massive lead in the first place? Because the 2nd guy gets destroyed by 3rd, and then the new 2nd guy gets shelled, etc. So in other words your massive lead wasn't based on racing skills, but pure luck, therefore it's fair that you can get blue shelled as well because you didn't earn the gap.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
You are right. Although the shell existed in the Mario Kart series before any blue spinies were actually in games.
1st place is the second easiest position in the game to hold, right behind 12th. I would say 80% of the games that I've won in first place were matches in which I was in first place by lap two.
Why does it even matter if lesser skilled players are thrown a bone once in a while? Luck exists, shit happens.
Why does it even matter if lesser skilled players are thrown a bone once in a while? Luck exists, shit happens.
SliceSabre
Banned
Its not terrible game design, its game design based on fun and chaos with a little bit of fairness as well.
If the game designed intended Mario Kart to be just another racing game items wouldn't even be a part of the equation or hell they would have been optional. It operates like this because there's just as much a chance of you winning as your 7 year old sister. Yes I've lost many times to my significantly younger siblings because of the way this game is designed and I don't consider that a bad thing.
If the game designed intended Mario Kart to be just another racing game items wouldn't even be a part of the equation or hell they would have been optional. It operates like this because there's just as much a chance of you winning as your 7 year old sister. Yes I've lost many times to my significantly younger siblings because of the way this game is designed and I don't consider that a bad thing.
Honestly, I find the Blue Shell to be the great equalizer. Not everyone is great at Mario Kart, so a Blue Shell can be the difference maker in placing a rank or two higher for less skilled players, especially if you get it and use it on the last lap towards the end.
I know as a good racer, the Blue Shell is a pain in the ass for me in a lot of ways, because it kills my great runs on the regular. However, I have to remember that the Blue Shell was not made for people like me. It was made for those unlike me.
All in all, I think the balance in MK8 has been pretty solid when it comes to item distribution. Still, when those Blue Shells hit me in 150cc or Mirror Mode and it prevents me from getting that 3-star rating... ooh... you better believe I want to punch someone in the throat afterward. haha.
I know as a good racer, the Blue Shell is a pain in the ass for me in a lot of ways, because it kills my great runs on the regular. However, I have to remember that the Blue Shell was not made for people like me. It was made for those unlike me.
All in all, I think the balance in MK8 has been pretty solid when it comes to item distribution. Still, when those Blue Shells hit me in 150cc or Mirror Mode and it prevents me from getting that 3-star rating... ooh... you better believe I want to punch someone in the throat afterward. haha.
I hate that the items you get depends on the place you are, first place is either worrying about losing it or too boring. There should be more items and be truly random, getting blue shells even in first place.
Where is the Ghost item to steal those stars? 3 Bananas, not enough, give me the 5 banana trail.
Where is the Ghost item to steal those stars? 3 Bananas, not enough, give me the 5 banana trail.
Lynd7
Member
I'd like it if all items had a high level skill based counter. In some of the past games it was possible to dodge reds, and even blues if you were good/lucky. I also think the distribution is annoying in 8, 1st and 2nd hardly even get items that block, I get the coins more than anything.
shaowebb
Member
Then just turn it off. There are custom item lists in 8.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
Sadly you can't just disable the blue shell, right?
I'm seeing the point of it a lot more specifically in 8, since the lead can get pretty big. I still have issues with it in the times where you just barely pass someone and THEN it decides to come and fuck you over.
Atleast it's the proper version that slides on the ground and then aeriel hits first place, I find myself hit by it a lot in the middle of the pack. The one that would just fly over everyone was fucking dumb and was not helpful to whoever threw it at all.
Atleast it's the proper version that slides on the ground and then aeriel hits first place, I find myself hit by it a lot in the middle of the pack. The one that would just fly over everyone was fucking dumb and was not helpful to whoever threw it at all.
Blue Shell deal area damage, so you can share your pain with 2nd or even 3rd if you skilled enough when you've seen the blue shell on the screen. My friend do that a lot in MK DS day, and just as you guess it, he mostly won the match no matter how much blue shell hit him in a race.
SimpleGamer
Member
If you guys have ever played Jak X before, the dark peace maker weapon hits everyone in front of you. Nintendo should add something similar to Mario kart.
Blue Shell and Squid does that in Mario Kart 8
SimpleGamer
Member
I know the squid does but the blue shell hits everyone in front of you now?
Squid randomly obscures your vision, it's barley ever even hindered my driving. I've never seen a Blue Shell hit anybody but the person it locked onto.
Either way, Blue shell has never been less of a problem in MK8. Green Shell is actually worse given how larger and easy to aim they are and how common they are.
biggersmaller
Banned
It exists or moments like this:
Excellent GIF. Fuck the Blue Shell. It may stop people from repeatedly getting 1st place, but it is just L-A-Z-Y game design. Design a better game.
Lazy.
Bought a Wii U to play this with my son. We are loving it.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Have there ever been koopas wearing blue shells in a Mario game?
The electric cloud in Mariokart Wii is a good example of poor game design in mariokart. It basically punishes you for playing the game. It should have allowed you to use the item on someone else, not be placed on you.
Blue shell as poor game design I can see an argument there. I never really had a problem with it in mariokart 64, but its gotten worse with each iteration.
Blue shell as poor game design I can see an argument there. I never really had a problem with it in mariokart 64, but its gotten worse with each iteration.
Blue Shells was pretty good in MK7, and it's quite nice now in MK8, since you've got the super horn and it feels easier to dodge with a mushroom. Only negative now is that 1st Place doesn't have a good area map so they can slow down in order for the explosion to hit other drivers nearby.
If anything, Green Shells are more terrifying than anything now since they're huge and there's no good sound or visual indicator of their placement. Couple MK8 Green Shells with the Coin Item and you've got a friendlier Blue Shell.
If anything, Green Shells are more terrifying than anything now since they're huge and there's no good sound or visual indicator of their placement. Couple MK8 Green Shells with the Coin Item and you've got a friendlier Blue Shell.
The Xtortionist
Member
Removing coin items from the game would encourage the player in first to fish for horns. At it stands, there's no reason to drop a dragged banana or shell right before an item box since you could easily end up with a coin instead. I've played a fair amount of pub races and it always baffles me when I see someone in first drop a defensive item to pick up something else. There was actually one race where the guy ahead of me did that, got a coin, while I got a red shell and hit him to take first.
:l
:l
Red shells are a lot worse. If 2nd place gets three of them and 1st is way ahead, he's pretty much fucked. Loses all their coins and their massive lead.
I think the way getting hit by items completely puts you to a halt is horrible design. You lose all your speed, 3 coins and risk being pushed off road (and losing another 3 coins). There's just way too much penalty for a single hit on tracks with 5 item pickup points.
I think the way getting hit by items completely puts you to a halt is horrible design. You lose all your speed, 3 coins and risk being pushed off road (and losing another 3 coins). There's just way too much penalty for a single hit on tracks with 5 item pickup points.
HypnoDarkrai
Member
The ones that give Yoshi wings in Super Mario World.
Freezie KO
Banned
That's the risk/reward. If you want the blue shell immunity, you have to drop your guard for red shells.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Those didn't have spikes on them though, right? I want to see what a koopa does with the MK shell
The Xtortionist
Member
I would be fine with it if the horn is a common item, but it isn't. The risk/reward balance is completely out of whack. Fishing for the incredibly rare horn, when blue shells aren't 100% guaranteed anyway, when coins are as common as they are, when the second place player has such a high chance of getting something to hit you, eliminates any sort of choice. There's really no choice at all imo. The odds are too stacked against the player getting a horn.
Yeah, you can easily get nothing but coins for an entire race. It is NEVER worth the risk in first to drop a defense item for the chance of blue shell immunity. Even if you get it, you have to use it on a red shell if it comes first anyway...or they get triple red shells and you're screwed regardless, since that has no defense at all. But you're ultra screwed if they get triple when you have a coin.
MvmntInGrn
Member
It keeps the game exciting. Keeping any place is fragile in Mario Kart because of how hard hitting the items can be. It means that the best player may not always win but the race is tense and exciting for everyone playing and first place is never definitively unattainable or maintainable.
FormerShirts
Member
What about a matchmaking option to disable blue shell? Pretty much for hardcore mario karters/pros.
Freezie KO
Banned
True. The horns should come up a bit more. I agree with that.
basically a handicap for people who suck.
And people hate games like cod for killstreaks which make them 'unbalanced'
Glittering Crux
Banned
I'd rather be in first and get hit by a blue shell than be in another position and get hit by 2-3 items in the span of 5 seconds. Not rare for that to put you in the second pack which can be a death sentence for first. Blue shell can screw you over, yeah, but so can any other item. It's a non-issue and only bad players complain about it.
WrenchNinja
Member
It is nothing but bad design.
Imperfected
Member
Most highly competitive games have some form of come-back mechanism. Street Fighter 4 has the Ultra Combo Meter, which you only fill by taking damage. MOBAs generally award more experience for killing higher level heroes, meaning that if you're falling behind (and thus lower level), every kill in a team fight is likely to be more valuable for your team than the opposing team. Civilization 5 allows players behind on technology to steal it from more advanced players.
As a general rule, if you have a competitive game, one of the major problems facing you is that if players fall behind early they are likely to view the entire match as pointless and will not enjoy themselves and may even outright quit. The existence of these sorts of mechanisms keeps players invested in the match, maintain tension in what would otherwise become very boring matches, and in some cases cause players to think laterally about strategy rather than linearly. (ie, "I'm on the last lap and I have a Blue Shell, I can let this guy pass me to bait other peoples' spinies for a bit and just pop him near the finish, but I'd be risking him getting a horn or falling too far behind due to some other hazard...")
They do serve a purpose, and while it's perfectly understandable that people do not like the mechanics or feel they could be implemented better, when talking about game design it's important to look at this sort of thing logically to deduce what beneficial effects it has on gameplay, regardless of what your knee-jerk reaction to it is.
I fucking despise the Blue Shell, too, but I recognize that it's actually good design for the sort of mid-tier competitive family fun Nintendo wants with Mario Kart.
This plus it makes the guy at the back feel like they're having an effect on the race. The item is clever and necessary, balance is the only issue with it.
SystemUser
Member
Mario Kart is a party game not a hardcore competitive game.
Mario kart wouldn't be the same without the blue shell. It adds to the frantic excitement and even if the person in 12th isn't gaining a lot in terms of actually moving up in the race. They do get a sick satisfaction when the person next shouts "noooooooooo". Plus it's an item that basically helps everyone who's not in first. Plus it's not that serious, getting your hopes dashed in the blink of an eye is what mario kart is about.
That's what it does in MK8. It can hit everyone on the way to hitting 1st place.