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How long do you think a vigilante could be active in real life?

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NotTheGuyYouKill

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Before dying or incarceration?

We all know there are different types of vigilantes. Just off the top of my head:

- Rich guys with an unbreakable sense of will and a shit ton of gadgets (Batman, Green Arrow, Moon Knight)

- Underdogs with an unbreakable sense of will and weapons that bludgeon (Daredevil)

- Violent sociopaths that kill a lot of people (Punisher, Dexter)

- Cyber vigilantes that use information to take on criminals (Hacktivists, Person of Interest crosses this other types)

- Thieves that take on corrupt individuals through shady dealings and trickery (Leverage)

How long could someone nutty enough to be a vigilante but still be reasonably intelligent last? How could they survive? What locations?

Real world hypothetical. A friend and I were debating this a while back, and he said they only way someone like Dexter could remain active that long in real life (cause Dexter is actually an exercise in stupidity) is to not engage like he does, but to silently break in and just be like any other run of the mill serial killer, not constantly worm his way into everyone's lives and only by the grace of police incompetence survive.
 
Given that Neogaf detectives can discover a person's identity from an off-handed comment 5 years in the past, I would allow a vigilante no more than three public acts before they are discovered, and four until they are killed/incarcerated.

There was a similar thread on this in the past I believe.
 
You'd have to be the Punisher on steroids and leave no one alive/not traces of yourself AND zero reason for ANYONE in real life to suspect who you are.
 
Would it make a difference if the vigilante's targets survived or died?

Like, let's say you injured them or ruined them or in some way made their life worse, but you did NOT kill them.

Or, you pull a Lizard Squad/North Korea style stunt and you fuck up a corporation or some individual (motives are obviously different) cause you think they deserve it for doing something awful
 
Vigilante like someone with a life but with a fetish to stick things into bad guys? Probably not long.

Hitmans who lives for the job? Probably long enough to be very experienced.

DON'T GET ANY IDEAS NTGYK
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Would it make a difference if the vigilante's targets survived or died?

Like, let's say you injured them or ruined them or in some way made their life worse, but you did NOT kill them.

Or, you pull a Lizard Squad/North Korea style stunt and you fuck up a corporation or some individual (motives are obviously different) cause you think they deserve it for doing something awful
Click to expand...

Letting them live is absolutely not an option.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You'd have to be the Punisher on steroids and leave no one alive/not traces of yourself AND zero reason for ANYONE in real life to suspect who you are.
Click to expand...

Basically this. You'd have to become a mass murderer yourself. If you leave your victims/the criminals alive they will be able to pinpoint who you are eventually.

Also, the extremely rich celebrity vigilantes like Green Arrow and Batman wouldn't last more than a week because people will actually notice when they go missing.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Letting them live is absolutely not an option.
Click to expand...

What if you wear a mask (assuming your vision isn't fucked)?

shadyspace said:
Well, for one, we actually have evidence regarding the former.
Click to expand...

Africanus said:
Hitmen would not be split between two lives and thus is less likely to slip up or be detected.
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Richard Kuklinski was a serial killer/hitman for like thirty years before being caught, and he managed to live a double life, no?

I'm just wondering if someone else was also capable of that, but they had... "noble" motives.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Well, why would a hitman survive longer than a vigilante?
Click to expand...

Less emotional strings to drive the hits, probably a bigger interest in doing the best job possible so as to ensure commercial viability, more parties interested in ensuring your professional continuity so they can keep being your client, more time to dedicate to the assassinations, and perhaps the chance to design all of your living in benefit of your job, whereas vigilantes may have more footprints around than they can find and clean.

NotTheGuyYouKill said:
What if you wear a mask (assuming your vision isn't fucked)?
Click to expand...

Not enough. You have to be very fast and efficient, so the victim is disoriented and unable to remember even the smallest of details. Height is very hard to fake. Hand shape, body mass, how strong/weak you look and act, a lot of stuff has to be completely imperceptible.
 
John Kowalski said:
Less emotional strings to drive the hits, probably a bigger interest in doing the best job possible so as to ensure commercial viability, more parties interested in ensuring your professional continuity so they can keep being your client, more time to dedicate to the assassinations, and perhaps the chance to design all of your living in benefit of your job, whereas vigilantes may have more footprints around than they can find and clean.
Click to expand...

Good points.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Would it make a difference if the vigilante's targets survived or died?

Like, let's say you injured them or ruined them or in some way made their life worse, but you did NOT kill them.

Or, you pull a Lizard Squad/North Korea style stunt and you fuck up a corporation or some individual (motives are obviously different) cause you think they deserve it for doing something awful
Click to expand...
Dead people can't identify you. Seriously, masks do not hide faces as well as movies/comics make you believe. If a criminal you're out to get sees you (or hears you), your days as a vigilante are over. And if you're going to be a cyber-vigilante, you will get caught pretty quickly too. In the real world, everything is traceable. There's no such thing as bouncing a signal of a thousand sattelites or hanging up the phone before cops can pinpoint your location (modern equipment can do that instantly).
 
I do kind of wonder how long a Dexter-esque vigilante could operate for as there's real life instances of serial killers being active for 20 years or never being caught at all
 
CloudWolf said:
Dead people can't identify you. Seriously, masks do not hide faces as well as movies/comics make you believe. If a criminal you're out to get sees you (or hears you), your days as a vigilante are over. And if you're going to be a cyber-vigilante, you will get caught pretty quickly too. In the real world, everything is traceable. There's no such thing as bouncing a signal of a thousand sattelites or hanging up the phone before cops can pinpoint your location (modern equipment can do that instantly).
Click to expand...

I guess stealth and enormous amounts of planning are the only way to pull it off, and even then, crazy amounts of risk.

SwiftDeath said:
I do kind of wonder how long a Dexter-esque vigilante could operate for as there's real life instances of serial killers being active for 20 years or never being caught at all
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Yeah, this is the idea that to me and my friend seems most plausible.

What's problematic is that if you kill someone high profile enough, people WILL come looking. But if you're killing small fish in a crime ridden area, there's better chance that the cops are just too overworked to care.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
What if you wear a mask (assuming your vision isn't fucked)?
Click to expand...

Reals (people that dress up as superheroes and fight actual crime) get arrested all the time.

They also are not that great at keeping their exploits private.

This is perhaps my favorite quote: " I was born to be a RLSH. My mission is to save the world."
These people need mental help and they need it now.

Phoenix Jones probably is the most high profile Real, as he has a lovely quote about his other, more docile Real brothers (who work homeless shelters and do birthday parties): "Helping the homeless is great, but it's not what a superhero does". Dude is ex-MMA and wear a bulletproof suit. Bound to be killed one day.
 
A good vigilante is only as good at evading the law as his/her accomplices are at enabling them.

To fight crime you need a good support team. This idea of doing these things solo is almost fantasy. It would take some very specific conditions like an underfunded police force, or you avoiding everyone figuring out you are investigating a crime to pull off a solo act.

564431941001568256
 
Fictional vigilantes have the advantage that the villains they go after are 100% guilty and evil. In the real world, you never have that certainty.

All it takes is a skewed press report, an overlooked clue, some planted misinformation or even a mistaken identity and you hit the wrong target. And when that happens, the full weight of law enforcement drops on you like a hammer because you're just as much of a threat as the people you fight, and most likely a high profile one at that, meaning there will be intense pressure on the police, from the public and policy makers, to stop you.

Contrary to popular belief, most major crimes get solved - the sheer amount of the resources the police can throw on a priority case is staggering and given enough time the most plausible solution will be hased out (in many high profile cases, like kidnappings, time is the killer bottleneck.)

Sadly, a solved case doesn't always lead to an arrest (the suspect may stay at large for a long time) or conviction (some parts of the file may not hold up legally) but a main suspect will be identified given enough time and attention.

When you come under that kind of scrutiny, it's very hard to continue acting as vigilante even if they can't arrest you right away.

Also, taking out major figures of organised crime just because you had the opportunity, leads to surprising side-effects as crime networks fracture, paranoia runs rampant and rivals move into the power vacuum. Law enforcement is very careful with these types of arrests because they need to be orchestrated carefully, taking blowback into account.

If Batman existed, he could probably turn any tranquil city into Gotham just by running roughshod all over the underworld.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Flashbangs do exist.
Click to expand...

They make noise, alert potential surrounding bystanders, are more stuff to carry, unpredictable, and all around not a good way to start things unless you're very sure of what to do and where the victim will be. If you don't want to kill then you need to be damn sure you can intimidate the victim so much they'll pee themselves when thinking of you, and/or have a strong interest in not telling the cops about it.

I don't speak from experience btw.
 
John Kowalski said:
They make noise, alert potential surrounding bystanders, are more stuff to carry, unpredictable, and all around not a good way to start things unless you're very sure of what to do and where the victim will be. If you don't want to kill then you need to be damn sure you can intimidate the victim so much they'll pee themselves when thinking of you, and/or have a strong interest in not telling the cops about it.

I don't speak from experience btw.
Click to expand...
dont_lie_to_me_harry_potter.gif
 
BrassDragon said:
Fictional vigilantes have the advantage that the villains they go after are 100% guilty and evil. In the real world, you never have that certainty.
Click to expand...

I loved the two episodes where Dexter actually killed innocent people. They played it off as no big deal. I especially love how the showrunners practically whacked off at a panel once to the idea of Dexter killing an innocent.

Such a disgraceful show.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Reals (people that dress up as superheroes and fight actual crime) get arrested all the time.

They also are not that great at keeping their exploits private.

This is perhaps my favorite quote: " I was born to be a RLSH. My mission is to save the world."
These people need mental help and they need it now.

Phoenix Jones probably is the most high profile Real, as he has a lovely quote about his other, more docile Real brothers (who work homeless shelters and do birthday parties): "Helping the homeless is great, but it's not what a superhero does". Dude is ex-MMA and wear a bulletproof suit. Bound to be killed one day.
Click to expand...

I was going to post this, Phoenix Jones is pretty much as close as we'll get.
 
CloudWolf said:
And if you're going to be a cyber-vigilante, you will get caught pretty quickly too. In the real world, everything is traceable. There's no such thing as bouncing a signal of a thousand sattelites or hanging up the phone before cops can pinpoint your location (modern equipment can do that instantly).
Click to expand...
\baph\ is still ruining people's lives on the regular. Apparently its not that simple in a world where relatively low-level cyber-terrorism isn't a priority.
 
I was thinking about this. I have a recurved bow. I have the leather hoodie, boots and pants. I've been training for 3 months. I think I could fight crime in the projects for a while
 
I can shoot it on the rooftops. I train in a forest. I have the quiver. I can do this I can become the arrow
 
brazil201 said:
I can shoot it on the rooftops. I train in a forest. I have the quiver. I can do this I can become the arrow
Click to expand...

What would you do with the arrow? Leave it behind? Easily traceable, unless you literally make your own bow and arrows, and even then you'd be artificially reducing the number of potential suspects because who the hell does that kind of stuff nowadays? Very few i imagine, and they all probably leave behind evidence of their crafting. What would you do with a bow inside a building?
 
well lets say I did this in the most dangerous city in america? Would the cops care I doubt it. I would do this at night.
 
I think so. I'm surprised there hasn't been one already actually, just some pretenders who dress up, talk to people, and call the police.

Someone like Punisher I think wouldn't last long, but I'm not sure about a Batman. Batman has a lot of resources to his advantage.
 
brazil201 said:
well lets say I did this in the most dangerous city in america? Would the cops care I doubt it. I would do this at night.
Click to expand...

Homicide police works very long term, which also means that anything linking murders (modus operandi, unique weaponry, unique circumstances, similar victims, etc.) can be used to increase the chance of finding out who you are exponentially over time. Anything that could indicate you being an expert and viable to continue your killing more successfully than a random, say, gang related homicide, will put further emphasis your investigation. No can do. The best in those places is to make people literally disappear into thin air, and not leaving any trace of their leaving and death. It only takes one smart detective to reverse engineer proper hitman ethics.
 
Someone with large wealth who was also skilled and long range killing could do a really good job and hiding their tracks and going unfound.

They could also pay people to take the fall for them.

Basically Batman+Punisher
 
Lets be real. Lets say I am in the most dangerous city in america. The cops obviously don't do their job. I can easily be around rooftops at night with my bow and start shooting at who ever is robbing someone or whatever. I obviously would need a good hacker who can hack into traffic cameras and stuff but I think its possible. Maybe it wont work in america but what about a 3rd world country?
 
brazil201 said:
Lets be real. Lets say I am in the most dangerous city in america. The cops obviously don't do their job. I can easily be around rooftops at night with my bow and start shooting at who ever is robbing someone or whatever. I obviously would need a good hacker who can hack into traffic cameras and stuff but I think its possible. Maybe it wont work in america but what about a 3rd world country?
Click to expand...

You wouldn't need a fucking bow in a third world country. You could go ape shit with an AK if you wanted to:

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/t...un-for-president/story-fnh81fz8-1226973937374

http://eyeforaneye.vice.com/editorial/the-punisher

Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte, who has been dubbed the real-life Punisher, has received local adoration and international condemnation for using vigilante methods to tackle crime.

For the uninitiated, The Punisher is a comic book and movie character who wages a one-man war against the mob, using murder, kidnapping, extortion and torture to crush criminal elements.

Mr Duterte, who was elected for his seventh term last year, earnt the “Punisher” reputation by encouraging the killing of criminals without first finding them guilty in court.
Click to expand...

PEOPLE ACTUALLY CALL HIM THE PUNISHER IN REAL LIFE BECAUSE HE PRETTY MUCH IS THE ACTUAL PUNISHER

duterte121.jpg
 
Lets say I fight crime in like Mexico.
 
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