Support NeoGAF

[Slavik81]

Again, I think people are missing the point I was getting at. People seem to think this thread is about why Wii Music and Wii Music alone didn't sell. I used it as an example because it came after the recent crisis to talk about how Nintendo's future casual-themed titles could also suffer if casual gamers, largely more effected by the global crisis than hardcore gamers, suddenly decided that games didn't fit into their budgets anymore. Wii Music I think should act as a warning to Nintendo that they should start to get a backup plan ready in case other casual-aimed titles drop like this too.

I think your case for that is also relatively weak, but I focused on Wii Music because it was more clear there.

Essentially, I think that because Nintendo already provides the lowest-cost goods in its category, that it will continue to do well. I wouldn't go so far as to label it an inferior good, but being relatively cheap while maintaining a good brand image will certainly help them through bad times.

 

[Classic_Gs]

Wii Music sold badly because it sucks.

Fact.

 

[Neomoto]

and by the time I finished reading the OP, Mario Kart Wii sold another million

No kidding, the software numbers from the latest Nintendo report suggest incredible sell-rate for their software titles. Also, the holiday season is about to begin. I doubt Nintendo will take a big hit compared to rivals, if at all, because of the crisis in relation to 'casuals'. Casuals basicly meaning just about everyone, they will go out and spend money on games in the holidays. If anything, they should spend more on Wii since it's cheaper, more selection (of games for everyone) and is clear marketleader with enormous momentum and is the thing everyone wants. And that's just talking about software, let alone the actual DS & Wii hardware and accessoires. It also helps that they are doing very well in every region and Microsoft and Sony do not (which means that MS and Sony won't get full potential out of some regions in a holiday season).

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

We're spinning Wii Music sales? Has it really come to this?

 

[Fewr]

I think I would have waited until after christmas to write something like this.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Case in point: Wii Music in Japan.

Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Wii Fit were all released in Japan before the collapse. All three were met well, and have current LTD sales of 2 million + each. Wii Music debuted one month after the collapse and has barely passed 200,000. I was just in Japan last week (I spent two weeks there from 10/19-11/2), and the game is just sitting on shelves despite seeing HUGE advertisements for it everywhere and several TV spots (as well as video adverts on the trains in Tokyo). As I sat on the trains, salary men all looked distraught. Business is not going well there either. The Nikkei is down like every other market, and I saw first hand just how hard it’s hitting this new audience of Nintendo’s.

Could it be the Japanese just don't want Wii Music, period? It could be affected by the market but I don't see how you could say it definitively one way or another without hard data.

In addition, there was virtually no excitement surrounding the new DSi. I woke up early on the 1st to get in line for a system, but I was able to just walk into a store in Den Den Town in the Osaka area and picked one up with no trouble. I’ve also seen sp0rk’s blog depicting a similar scene in the Tokyo area. Right now, the market just doesn’t want a new version of the DS that is more expense than the previous one, despite the additional features (admittedly, I wouldn’t have wanted a DSi if it weren’t for the fact that I was still using a DS Phat at the time).

As was said, lines were invisible due to preorders and the DSi sold out it's shipment of 170,000 units in two days due to this.

You may not have noticed any "excitement" because it was just announced less than a month before release, as well.

While Nintendo is still somehow holding onto the lead they’ve established, this seems largely due to the momentum they had built previously. Microsoft and Sony’s Japanese sales have gone down, but not nearly in the same proportion as Nintendo’s. While Sony’s PS3 was never doing particularly great to begin with, the PSP doesn’t seem to have taken as much of a hit from the market collapse as the DS/Wii has.

Stop. Hold right there- the DS sales have been going down even before the crisis as PSP sales have gone up. There's not many Japanese who don't have a DS that want one (in its then-current form) and thus the reason for the DSi.

This market is the previously mentioned “hardcore” demographic that isn’t nearly as invested in the market as their casual counterparts. As such, most of them still have disposable income to spend on games (well, more than the casuals at least).

This statement doesn't make sense... "hardcore gamers" is a very broad demographic.

Either way, Nintendo better do something, or it will be a rough road ahead for them going forward.

Nintendo will be fine. They still have great momentum and appeal to both core and casual, not to mention their absolutely huge warchest. Microsoft will be fine because of Windows and Office. It's Sony you have to worry about- there's not much they're first in nowadays.

 

[DCharlie]

It actually kinda supports my point that those would well better during this crisis.

but here's the other thing - I'm not seeing much in the way of a financial crisis in Japan right now. Video games sales are pretty much in line with what i'd expect and the only "weird" thing is that Wii Music didn't pull in massive numbers off the bat (it might still do - most Wii range games have extremely long legs).

Shops are still packed, restaurants are still heaving, 35k PS3s still shifting off shelves etc.
It's business as it was -before- the downturn.

 

[AtreyU]

Wii Music seems to be the gaming equivalent of painting yourself blue, sitting in a bath of beans, and strapping deeliboopers to your head.

People are always going to be intimidated by something that makes them look stupid, and i thought the various ads/promo material reinforced that you were indeed going to look like a complete tit playing the game.

I guess people playing guitar hero infront of people must look like gods. They look like fucking dorks with tiny baby guitars looking like they have cerebral palsy when they play.

DDR? Don't get me started on DDR. That is embarrassment city.

Karaoke? its not even a video game but drunk people trying to sing is pretty stupid looking if you ask me.

Only hardcore fuckwits who already have issues with their self esteem would be intimidated by looking stupid or a "tit" when playing a video game. Normal people without self esteem problems would have no problem doing this. people enjoy making themselves stupid as its funny and harmless oh and yeah its funny.

People so serious about video games that even looking stupid when playing it, is now a reason to not play something, should clearly relax and actually have some fun once in a while.

 

[Stumpokapow]

wii music flopped because it sucked and had no traction (alternative pro wii music point of view: nintendo did not adequately convey the awesomeness of freeform music game action)

the dsi had a bigger launch than the dslite by a factor of 2, so i guess the japanese market must have really not wanted the lite.

wii hardware sales are down year-over-year, but that's because nintendo massively dropped the ball in the first half of the year, before this "bust". the back half has been pretty much on par with 2007.

so those are your three pieces of evidence. do you think your conclusion is still true without any of your evidence being correct?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

In the middle of this crisis, that arose over the past 1.5 years, isn't Nintendo's profits going up? Or is the OP assuming the crisis started in September and October? But even then, they still profited 600 million or so. So, ITT thread, I'm confused.

 

[DCharlie]

Only hardcore fuckwits who already have issues with their self esteem would be intimidated by looking stupid or a "tit" when playing a video game. Normal people without self esteem problems would have no problem doing this. people enjoy making themselves stupid as its funny and harmless oh and yeah its funny.

i couldn't disagree an more with your analysis of this.

People so serious about video games that even looking stupid when playing it, is now a reason to not play something, should clearly relax and actually have some fun once in a while.

yes, i am clearly not having fun.

 

[justchris]

You understand that the only thing you have to base this theory on is Wii Music, right, nothing else follows.

In the US, Wii hardware and software continues to break records, month after month, with numbers that make the 360 & PS3 laughable. And the US was the first country to start experiencing economic issues.

In Europe, Wii hardware and software continues to break records, month after month, despite Europe getting shafted on prices in general.

In Japan, most DSi units sold out in preorders. It sold more in it's first week than the DSL did, and more than the PSP3000 did for that matter. Now, if it takes a precipitous drop next week, maybe you can make an argument there, but it'd have to drop more significantly than the PSP3000 did in its second week for your argument to work.
Meanwhile, up until this week, the Wii had dropped from ~60k a week to ~25k a week. Whereas the PS3 had dropped from ~20k a week to ~5k a week. I don't know if you do percentages, but the PS3 took a much harder drop than the Wii, and week on week, the Wii has actually been doing the same or better than it has last year.

Your hypothesis may prove true in a year or two, but there is absolutely nothing so far that supports it, except for the weak sales of Wii Music. When all other evidence is against you, a single instance of supporting evidence is more likely explained as an anomaly than a pattern. One event cannot form a pattern.

 

[Jonnyram]

:lol at blaming the economy for WiiMusic tanking.

 

[Aselith]

I'm sure Nintendo will muddle through what with their huge piles of money in the bank.

 

[charlequin]

Steering things away from a strict Wii Music discussion does anyone disagree with the overall premise, that new casual gamers will walk away from games faster than the traditional hardcore?

Yes.

Games aren't called a "recession-proof" industry because gamers are so "hardcore" or whatever similarly dumb shit people say; it's an industry that performs well in economic downturns because people generally cut their large entertainment expenses (vacations, expensive hardware investments, new fancy cars) but almost everyone still has the money to make occasional $20-$50 purchases.

Nothing about the Wii demographic makes them more likely to cut games out of their budgets.

I'm not sure about that. I would think that GTA and LBP would probably appeal more to a hardcore demographic than to casuals.

If you buy into the idiotic and useless GAF model where the 20 million people who bought San Andreas are all "hardcore gamers" then you're not going to be able to make heads or tails of this.

All games that sell 1 million or more copies are selling to a "casual" audience: people who do not define videogames as a specific hobby or life interest, but rather just play videogames occasionally the way most people watch movies (engaged while playing, but not interested in thinking or talking about games when the console is off.)

 

[DDayton]

Is Wii Music really a "flop" yet?

 

[Linkup]

Is Wii Music really a "flop" yet?

Yup, expectations have risen. The goal post is a million day one, not profits it's first two weeks of being out regardless if it hasn't even launch everywhere yet.

If we actually wanted to be reasonable about this I'm sure most of us could agree that financially wii music will be a success. Just because posters enjoy screaming bomba at games(let alone a game that is included in a line of games that typically has legs) the week after it's out doesn't mean the game flopped. It's done 140k in japan, even if it continues to drop it'll reach 200k. Include NA/EU sales and it gets harder and harder for the desperate on here to look sane trying to say the game failed. Hate the game all you want, but try not to look stupid painting a picture that doesn't exist. That's delusional.

Also I say NA/EU since titles like wii fit, brain training, wii play, and nintendogs have been bigger hits in NA/EU than Japan. Nothing to say it can't do larger legs in those two regions.

RurouniZel is crazy

 

[ghst]

But sp0rk loves it and he lives in Japan.

cause it's like jazz theory...man.

 

[Susurrus]

It’s a no brainer at this point that the disastrous financial crisis is affecting companies all across the globe, including all three major videogame console publishers Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony. But recently, despite the fact that Nintendo has still remained relatively on top of the charts against Microsoft and Sony, I’ve noticed a trend that ever since the crisis hit a couple months ago Nintendo’s sales have taken a harder hit proportionately than the other two. I decided to analyze why I think this is the case and have come to the following conclusions.

The Nintendo DS and Wii have enjoyed immense success over the last couple of years, largely due to Nintendo’s successful attempts to court a new audience and bring them into the fold. The so-called “casuals” as the GAF calls them. They showed up in the right place at the right time, and Nintendo has been reaping the rewards ever since.

But let’s consider the current circumstances for a moment. Unlike the commonly referred to “hardcore” gaming market of 13-35 year old males, this new audience has statistically been effected far more greatly by the current collapse of global stock markets. The new elderly demographic? They’ve just watched several thousand dollars worth of their retirements get flushed down the tubes. Younger kids who rely on their parents to buy them games? They are having more trouble convincing their parents to do so as they struggle to make ends meet and keep their houses (granted, housing issues are more of a US problem than worldwide, but it’s effecting countries like Japan as well…). In short, this new audience of people who had the money to spend on these games suddenly find themselves without disposable income to spend on gaming.

Case in point: Wii Music in Japan.

Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Wii Fit were all released in Japan before the collapse. All three were met well, and have current LTD sales of 2 million + each. Wii Music debuted one month after the collapse and has barely passed 200,000. I was just in Japan last week (I spent two weeks there from 10/19-11/2), and the game is just sitting on shelves despite seeing HUGE advertisements for it everywhere and several TV spots (as well as video adverts on the trains in Tokyo). As I sat on the trains, salary men all looked distraught. Business is not going well there either. The Nikkei is down like every other market, and I saw first hand just how hard it’s hitting this new audience of Nintendo’s.

In addition, there was virtually no excitement surrounding the new DSi. I woke up early on the 1st to get in line for a system, but I was able to just walk into a store in Den Den Town in the Osaka area and picked one up with no trouble. I’ve also seen sp0rk’s blog depicting a similar scene in the Tokyo area. Right now, the market just doesn’t want a new version of the DS that is more expense than the previous one, despite the additional features (admittedly, I wouldn’t have wanted a DSi if it weren’t for the fact that I was still using a DS Phat at the time).

While Nintendo is still somehow holding onto the lead they’ve established, this seems largely due to the momentum they had built previously. Microsoft and Sony’s Japanese sales have gone down, but not nearly in the same proportion as Nintendo’s. While Sony’s PS3 was never doing particularly great to begin with, the PSP doesn’t seem to have taken as much of a hit from the market collapse as the DS/Wii has. This market is the previously mentioned “hardcore” demographic that isn’t nearly as invested in the market as their casual counterparts. As such, most of them still have disposable income to spend on games (well, more than the casuals at least). I know I fit into this demographic, despite being more of a DS/Wii fan. I don’t have a family to support yet, nor am I invested in the market. I had the money to take a vacation to Japan and spend nearly $1200 in retro games and systems.

I don’t think most of Nintendo’s new audience could afford something like that at the moment even if they wanted to.

As such, Nintendo more than Microsoft and Sony seriously needs to rethink their overall strategy to accommodate their new audience. My first recommendation would be to reduce the overall prices of their software. Right now most Japanese people probably don’t want to spend 6,000 yen on Wii Music or other Wii software.

In addition, I would focus on the DS for casual software and more hardcore experiences for the Wii audience. DS software is cheaper to produce than Wii software, and with Wii software being more expensive than DS software they would be wise to cater to the people who have more money in this time of economic uncertainty.

Either way, Nintendo better do something, or it will be a rough road ahead for them going forward.

Bolded news channel's favorite words! You must watch a lot of news TV (or work for one?)

Everything is a CRISIS!!!ZOMG!!!!11!! or a COLLAPSE!!!OSHI!!!!!22!

 

[RurouniZel]

Bolded news channel's favorite words! You must watch a lot of news TV (or work for one?)

Everything is a CRISIS!!!ZOMG!!!!11!! or a COLLAPSE!!!OSHI!!!!!22!

Dude, anything where my parents see $85,000 of their retirement just disappear over the course of a week can be called a crisis in my book.

It is a fucking crisis and to belittle it is just delusional.

 

[DDayton]

Yup, expectations have risen. The goal post is a million day one, not profits it's first two weeks of being out regardless if it hasn't even launch everywhere yet.

How many companies would kill to have "flops" like Wii Music?

 

[cws]

So people aren`t buying WiiMusic in Japan because of the global financial crisis and not because they just aren`t interested in the "game" ?

 

[Laguna]

For people saying there were no lines for DSi

 

[apujanata]

Dude, anything where my parents see $85,000 of their retirement just disappear over the course of a week can be called a crisis in my book.

It is a fucking crisis and to belittle it is just delusional.

Are your parents old enough to witness Black Friday in 1987 ? Or the dot com crisis in 2001 ? I am pretty sure they do. There is a possibility that your grandparents was borned before 1939, so they could experience the great depression. After so many experience, putting big percentage of your retirement fund into stocks is a "high risk, high gain" mentatility. Be prepared to be burned when doing stocks.

If you ask your parents, there is high probability that :
- they still profit (current price is still higher than bought price, even after all the 50% price drop).
- IF they didn't retire in the next 5 years, their stock price should return back to the price before 2008 crisis. So no big actual losses (unless your parent goes into "borrow money to invest in stocks", which is not a good strategy, and caused many people to go chapter 11)

 

[dallow_bg]

I completely disagree with the OP.

It's not like Nintendo is a superhuge company with tons of employees to support.
This is a relatively small company making way more money than it should relative to it's size.

They'll be good, and always better than Sony and MS which are much larger businesses with hands in many other pies.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

And yet Wii Fit, which costs quite a bit more than Wii Music, continues to hover relatively close to the top of the sales charts around the globe.

 

[APZonerunner]

So for Nintendo it's Disaster: Day of Credit Crisis. Right? Right?

 

[poppabk]

The only reason Nintendo will be affected more is because of the currency exchange rates, which will erode some of the profit they were making in the US and Europe. There is no evidence to believe that "hardcore" will be more resilient to economic slowdown, and there is no reason to believe that, if this were true, that Nintendo would be more affected than others.
Wii Music is probably not selling well because it is not an easy idea to get across. I have no interest in it, Guitar Hero fulfills my fake music needs. It may also suck, but I haven't played it so I don't know.

 

[Ikael]

Drugs, alcohol and videogames. In times of crysis, the people consum more of the 3, since they are products with the same fuction: to evade people from the shitty reality they are living. Only that drugs are banned and alcohol is heavily taxed. So nope, I think that videogames is a sector which will do well during this economic crysis.

 

[Fuu]

Drugs, alcohol and videogames. In times of crysis, the people consum more of the 3, since they are products with the same fuction: to evade people from the shitty reality they are living. Only that drugs are banned and alcohol is heavily taxed. So nope, I think that videogames is a sector which will do well during this economic crysis.

There's sex too.

 

[domokunrox]

I've done a research on something similar to what you're talking about, but I concluded that the Video game industry and even all the entertainment industry in general has benefited from the recession.

People were not taking their annual summer vacation or buying a new car or whatever big purchases they commonly make and instead used that money for entertainment.

Box office sales rose ~10% from last year. Video game sales rose ~50% from last year. The only media that didn't do well is CD sales. Which dropped off quite a bit, I don't quite recall what percent. I think like ~40%. But anyway. Digital Music hasn't made up for all the revenue loss, but its making a ton of money for sure.

Back in the great depression, theaters made excellent money. People want to pay to help them relax and forget about the economic problems of america.

The only real financial crisis that concerns video game companies is the falling prices of currency on the market. Obviously, we're deflating. Look at other trades. Earlier this year, crude oil was like $130 at the least and now its like ~$60 in a matter of months? Its great, but its shows really how unstable and how much price gouging has been going on all these years.

Where's that gif of a train petrol container deflating? We also need a gif of constant american dollars being printed out.

Its just all become worthless. Anyone been selling things on craigslist the past year? If you sell like high profile things that retail more then $1400, you get someone from Europe wanting to buy it and even offering more. Even willing to bank wire it over to you freely. I asked whats their catch, and I was simply told that they save like 200 Euros this way even with expensive shipping costs that they pay for. We've become like the Taiwan of Europe except better.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

There's sex too.

Yeah but that's more expensive than all three put together.

Spoiler

needy girlfriend joke, not a hooker one. Hookers are dirt cheap (if you know where to look).

 

[Scenester]

wtf

"How the global financial crisis affect Nintendo much more than Microsoft or Sony"

a much more appropriate thread title would be

"I walked into a store; and looked at some sales figures; and noticed Wii Music wasnt selling"


I hope you did your part, OP, and bought 3 copies of Wii Music to help circumvent this disaster

 

[anonymousAversa]

I DOUBT IT!