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[Shpeshal Nick]

Wasn't there a thread on this earlier?

 

[matty2Dfraud]

As for other games, yes the devs have to axe Kinect incorporation (voice commands, etc) in order to tap into those extra resources/processing cycles/w.e.

That's not true at all. Voice commands will still work in every game. It's facial recognition and gesture commands will be turned off during gameplay for these titles. That's it.

 

[CoG]

Also, 10% sure sounds like a lot, but a 11,1% bump (from 90%->100% is +11%) would boost 792p, which seems to be the current xbone sweet spot to ...

792*1408 = 1.115.136px
+11,1% = 1.239.039px, which rounds to about 834p.

900p could be bumped to 948p, accordingly.
So even if these 10% are accurate, it's no kind of magical secret sauce to automatically reach 1080p.

That's assuming a linear increase in resolution, which may not be the case.

I also found this to be possibly misleading:

How games use the extra horsepower will be up to developers, Lobb added. One, Bungie, has already been able to increase the resolution and frame-rate of its game, Destiny, on Xbox One, to hit 1080p30 - matching the PlayStation 4 version.

We don't know how they got to resolution/framerate parity with the PS4 version. I want to see how overall fidelity adds up (AA, AF, textures) before believing that GPU allocation alone is to thank.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

* you can. It will not work, but that shouldn't stop you from saying that whenever you want. Here, i'll say that right now even if i'm at work and i don't even have an xbox one.

Seriously, this is not clear. I guess they are implying it will work AFTER minimizing the game, otherwise this doesn't make much sense to me.

So some games might ship with stuff like 'xbox , record that' disabled ?

Nah. I made a thread about this yesterday from a Kotaku article explaining it a little more clearly:

If a developer uses the Kinect-free option, their game is flagged as a non-gesture game. Not only will the game not be able to support gestures, but system gestures—such as reaching out with both hands and bringing them together to minimize a game and return to the dashboard—will not work. Visual recognition features won't work, either, so, as Spencer told me, "If I sat down next to you, Kinect isn't going to realize I'm now there until I quit the game."

On the other hand, voice commands will still work. You can still say "Xbox, record that" and grab clips even in non-gesture games, Spencer said, noting that the system's verbal user interface will keep running. Since those voice commands are going through the Kinect, then the Kinect is doing something, just not anything visually intensive.

And once you press the Xbox button on the controller to minimize the game? "All of the Kinect stuff comes back, because we've put the game in a suspend mode."

 

[Fliesen]

What about "snap"?

you can customize snap by using the controller.

you can't (easily) use game-dvr without the voice command, currently, ... i think. (i think you can snap the game-dvr itself as an app and use it when something cool happens. Sounds a bit clunky, though.

 

[sangreal]

Isn't it Kinect that made the voice work? Or is sound input independent from it on middleware level?

Yes, it uses the Kinect -- but only the "gesture controls and visual recognition features are suspended" to regain this power according to the article. That is what I meant by "camera", I just didn't want to type it out since I was on my phone

 

[lifeexpectancy]

That's not true at all. Voice commands will still work in every game. It's facial recognition and gesture commands will be turned off during gameplay for these titles. That's it.

I already replied on page 1 that I read that wrong. Damn you people jumped all over that like a fat kid on a twinkie.

 

[mrklaw]

so voice still stays - good.

But can games still add their own voice commands, or does that require some of the extra reserve?

 

[Slay]

I almost think the guy is that deluded that he makes the conversations up himself!

isn't that obvious? there is no "insider"

as for the voice commands, i think it would be insane not to support them anymore, ps4 does that and it doesn't even need the camera for that.

 

[Fliesen]

That's assuming a linear increase in resolution, which may not be the case.

yeah, i just thought i needed to put things in perspective, because to some people 10% sounds like a lot, when it actually isn't.

 

[Chobel]

you can customize snap by using the controller.

you can't (easily) use game-dvr without the voice command, currently, ... i think. (i think you can snap the game-dvr itself as an app and use it when something cool happens. Sounds a bit clunky, though.

No, I'm taking about whether "snap" will work or not for the games using the 10% GPU reserve. IIRC that GPU reserve was for kinect camera + snap.

 

[nynt9]

i just read the OP, not the article itself, but did we learn anything new?

if devs want more power (dat 10%), their game can't use complex Kinect functions ingame. ... that was kind of a no-brainer, wasn't it?

the only new info i got from this was the fact that as soon as you hit the home-button, gesture control should work again. cool.

Also, 10% sure sounds like a lot, but a 11,1% bump (from 90%->100% is +11%) would boost 792p, which seems to be the current xbone sweet spot to ...

792*1408 = 1.115.136px
+11,1% = 1.239.039px, which rounds to about 834p.

900p could be bumped to 948p, accordingly.
So even if these 10% are accurate, it's no kind of magical secret sauce to automatically reach 1080p.

This is assuming X% hardware power increase translates to X% performance increase, which is never the case in real life as increasing hardware power introduces overhead so the performance will surely increase by <X%

 

[NinjaMouse]

why not from the start microsoft?

Because the people making decisions now aren't necessarily the ones who were making decisions then.

 

[Biochet]

I don't get this, would that mean for the developers to use that extra 10% on a game, the downside would be that all Kinect features such as snap, "xbox record that" would not work in that game?

 

[matty2Dfraud]

What about "snap"?

Snap still works. The snap feature has absolutely nothing to do with the kinect resources. It's an os level feature. All voice commands still work while in-game.


Jesus, this thread is almost as bad as all the earlier threads where people thought they had to unplug their kinect to get the extra 10% lol

 

[Hip Hop]

If this is true then why is Sunset Overdrive running at 900p also Fable Legends may not hit 1080p.

I would not be surprised if Destiny runs at 1080p on Xbox but the textures are lower quality.

Lobb said. "It's more GPU plus more bandwidth to the GPU, so they both matter. So for some games it might be resolution, it might be frame-rate, or it might be, let's throw in more enemies."

.

 

[twobear]

Is the reason for games not hitting 1080p an issue of bandwidth or an issue of framebuffer storage, though? I would have thought the latter.

 

[Chobel]

Snap still works. The snap feature has absolutely nothing to do with connect.

Source? Because the 10% reserve was for kinect camera and snap functionality.

 

[A.D. Skinner]

I would be extremely dissapointed if voice commands stopped working. It's only a mic, and snapped apps are surely irrelevant.

Far as I understand, it's very clear that voice will always work, and it better do.

Good stuff though! Wonder when it'll actually hit and what the first thing to take advantage of it would be, wither a new release or a patch.

Technically though, once that update is out and about, everything should run better right? Games that may stutter and have frame drops shouldn't need a patch to run better?

 

[Fliesen]

Because the people making decisions now aren't necessarily the ones who were making decisions then.

much rather because this was one of the rare occurrences where people actually voted with their wallets.

whenever there's a dispute over EA or CoD games, people say "vote with your wallet, don't buy the game" - which is unlikely because there's no alternative to Battlefield and CoD if you're into these kinds of shooters.

With Xbox one there WAS an alternative. An alternative which people purchased. An alternative that Microsoft tries to adapt to because their bet on "more value by including Kinect" (which isn't entirely wrong, per se) was a failure in the market.

even Mattrick would have taken these necessary steps by now.

 

[Jburton]

The 3D camera that once was the future of gaming is now, literally, a dancing peripheral.

Revisionist history while also making a big deal about giving 10% of resources back to the GPU.

And some said kinect and a weaker spec where not the big issues with the X1, it was only price.

MS's PR campaign of late to diminish kinect and focus on "power" tells where the biggest perception issues lie with the console, apart from price.

 

[Slay]

Is the reason for games not hitting 1080p an issue of bandwidth or an issue of framebuffer storage, though? I would have thought the latter.

it could be both, plus the 16 ROP's

 

[Jburton]

I would be extremely dissapointed if voice commands stopped working. It's only a mic, and snapped apps are surely irrelevant.

Far as I understand, it's very clear that voice will always work, and it better do.

Good stuff though! Wonder when it'll actually hit and what the first thing to take advantage of it would be, wither a new release or a patch.

Technically though, once that update is out and about, everything should run better right? Games that may stutter and have frame drops shouldn't need a patch to run better?

Good point on the snapped apps, how much of a percentage does that take from GPU resources?

 

[Sorc3r3r]

This power difference between the two boxes seems a serious business.
From the start and till now there has been a lot of talk from MS about how the differences would be minimal and now we are back again on matching the ps4 on performance, when it is in reality physically impossible.

I wonder how much they think this (obvious) power difference is hurting their sales or if some kind poll has shown that it is a major issue between early adopters.

The right thing to do in my opinion would be to just shut up and focus on things that the xbox one does better instead of insist on a clear weakness of the system.

 

[Feindflug]

That's assuming a linear increase in resolution, which may not be the case.

I also found this to be possibly misleading:



We don't know how they got to resolution/framerate parity with the PS4 version. I want to see how overall fidelity adds up (AA, AF, textures) before believing that GPU allocation alone is to thank.

I don't get what the quality of the PS4 version has to do with the Xbone version improvements after the 10% bump...also the only way that this may be misleading is if Bungie lies about this and the Xbone version was 1080p/30fps from the start.

 

[twobear]

This power difference between the two boxes seems a serious business.
From the start and till now there has been a lot of talk from MS about how the differences would be minimal and now we are back again on matching the ps4 on performance, when it is in reality physically impossible.

I wonder how much they think this (obvious) power difference is hurting their sales or if some kind poll has shown that it is a major issue between early adopters.

The right thing to do in my opinion would be to just shut up and focus on things that the xbox one does better instead of insist on a clear weakness of the system.

I think that's kind of MS's problem now that they've ditched Kinect.

 

[Rainy Dog]

This is really is a bit of a confusing farce now.

Thankfully the main competitor designed and conceived their console with the right intentions from the outset.

 

[Lionheart]

Source? Because the 10% reserve was for kinect camera and snap functionality.

The 10 % might have been for both, but they never said they'd actually give ALL of the 10 % back IIRC.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

If this is true then why is Sunset Overdrive running at 900p also Fable Legends may not hit 1080p.

I would not be surprised if Destiny runs at 1080p on Xbox but the textures are lower quality.

Unless they are over the top colossal, the size of the textures isn't significant to the framerate at 1080p or lower resolutions.

 

[Fliesen]

Good point on the snapped apps, how much of a percentage does that take from GPU resources?

if they took away snap, which is the only Xbone OS feature that i find intriguing - especially the achievement tracker - for 10 measly percent of GPU power, that'd suck.

i mean, i just prop up my iPad on the couch table to track achievements / watch youtube guides, and switch the TV to PaP for "snap TV". - still, it's a cool feature to have

 

[Majanew]

Since MS have been trying to improve Xbox One's graphical shortcomings vs PS4, I have high apple pie in the sky hopes for next-gen Xbox. Better be a graphical beast, MS. Don't screw up again.

 

[Impeccable]

Since MS have been trying to improve Xbox One's graphical shortcomings vs PS4, I have high apple pie in the sky hopes for next-gen Xbox. Better be a graphical beast, MS. Don't screw up again.

Until then, we have eight years of this stuff!

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Ah interesting I was wondering how this was going to work between a Kinect and non Kinect system.

Glad to have the insight.

 

[Majanew]

Until then, we have eight years of this stuff!

I'm hoping it's only a 5 year cycle for both. Six at the most.

 

[twobear]

Since MS have been trying to improve Xbox One's graphical shortcomings vs PS4, I have high apple pie in the sky hopes for next-gen Xbox. Better be a graphical beast, MS. Don't screw up again.

Next generation they'll release a $599 beast and everyone will complain about the price.

 

[NextGen]

"You have more GPU, so go ahead and use it how you want," Lobb said. "It's more GPU plus more bandwidth to the GPU, so they both matter. So for some games it might be resolution, it might be frame-rate, or it might be, let's throw in more enemies."

Slight change of tune or me misunderstanding the quote? All I hear from my Xbox mates is that resolution and framerates dont matter cos MS said so.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

I'm hoping it's only a 5 year cycle for both. Six at the most.

Yuck yuck yuck, to heck with that 5-year lifecycle nonsense. They're still making cross-gen games FFS. It's like almost every game is 360/PS3/XB1/PS4/PC now.

Until we have 3 or 4 years of ONLY XB1/PS4/PC games, I do NOT want to see this gen end prematurely. PC gamers can change out their graphics card every 2-3 years if they want short lifecycles. Let consoles have 6 to 8 years please. Yuck.

 

[Rising_Hei]

PR bullshit imo, everything he says is pretty obvious... and their direct competence also improves their SDKs as time passes, so...

much rather because this was one of the rare occurrences where people actually voted with their wallets.

whenever there's a dispute over EA or CoD games, people say "vote with your wallet, don't buy the game" - which is unlikely because there's no alternative to Battlefield and CoD if you're into these kinds of shooters.

With Xbox one there WAS an alternative. An alternative which people purchased. An alternative that Microsoft tries to adapt to because their bet on "more value by including Kinect" (which isn't entirely wrong, per se) was a failure in the market.

even Mattrick would have taken these necessary steps by now.

It would have been "more value" if the ONE with kinect costed 400 $, too.

 

[R3TRO]

Source? Because the 10% reserve was for kinect camera and snap functionality.

Penello said this.

 

[Majanew]

Yuck yuck yuck, to heck with that 5-year lifecycle nonsense. They're still making cross-gen games FFS. It's like almost every game is 360/PS3/XB1/PS4/PC now.

Until we have 3 or 4 years of ONLY XB1/PS4/PC games, I do NOT want to see this gen end prematurely. PC gamers can change out their graphics card every 2-3 years if they want short lifecycles. Let consoles have 6 to 8 years please. Yuck.

Ending after a 5-6 years cycle is not premature. So you want another 8 year cycle that devs and publishers cried about being too long? I really don't want to be playing sub 1080p games in 2020. The frame-rates will be taking a hit, too, as devs continue to push the graphics far beyond what these consoles can handle. PS5/XB2 in 2019 would be great and would be healthy for the industry imo.

Just saw the edit. I said 5-6 years. Beyond that is too long.

 

[pswii60]

why not from the start microsoft?

All platforms firmwares and OSes will evolve throughout the lifecycle.

 

[Anion]

So they're basically back tracking and removing every feature that they advertised heavily last E3.

Well, the most important features are still there bro.
Voice and snap. It just doesn't process gestures

 

[Fliesen]

PR bullshit imo, everything he says is pretty obvious... and their direct competence also improves their SDKs as time passes, so...



It would have been "more value" if the ONE with kinect costed 400 $, too.

i think the Kinect has great potential value. it's almost entirely untapped, though, sadly.

if the OS was a little less clunky and natural language recognition was better. If you sat down on your couch and said:
"Xbox, invite Kyle to a Call of Duty party" and it'd recognize your profile, launch Call of Duty, invite xXxBlazeIt420xXx (you had added the phonetic name: "Kyle" in your friends list) to an ingame party while also connecting to him via voice chat, that'd be a great thing, both useful as well as way beyond what the PS4 can currently do with voice commands. The hardware (Xbox One + Kinect 2.0) should be perfectly capable.
"Xbox, record that and put it on Facebook". Kinect could detect that you went to the kitchen / bathroom and give you an <AFK> tag while maybe dimming the TV output.

the current implementation is so clunky. Just look at what Google Now or Siri are capable of doing.

 

[matty2Dfraud]

Source? Because the 10% reserve was for kinect camera and snap functionality.

I guess Albert Penello can be my source.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Always amazing how there's this narrative that's been building that suggests 130GFLOPs will provide huge improvements and maybe bring parity, while a 530GFLOP difference really isn't much.

 

[KissVibes]

Since MS have been trying to improve Xbox One's graphical shortcomings vs PS4, I have high apple pie in the sky hopes for next-gen Xbox. Better be a graphical beast, MS. Don't screw up again.

There wont be another console generation after this one.

 

[elektrixx]

I still can't do "Xbox On".

 

[Ricky_R]

Penello said this.

That's like saying: "Pinocchio said this".

 

[matty2Dfraud]

I still can't do "Xbox On".

Flakey command. I'd say the other voice commands work about 95% of the time for me. Xbox On about 45% of the time :S

 

[matty2Dfraud]

That's like saying: "Pinocchio said this".

Then don't believe it I guess?