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[F#A#Oo]

No, it's not. It's a very deliberate (and very bad) trend in this industry.
Which has hardly anything to do with hardware capabilities and their use and more with increased size of the market, inflated budgets and mismanagement.

Excellent stuff thanks for that.

I still think it's naive to disregard hardware increases as not affecting things. I do not believe that in one generation developers and publishers got stupid...that kind of mismanagement already existed prior.

Expectations are linked to increases in hardware improvements...and in this generation expectations have been mis-managed to the detriment of everyone working in the industry.

Just look at the way Sony and MS subsidize console costs...why should they have to do that? Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations. You cannot have a market if the consumer is not willing to buy $500+ console's and buy $60 games.

So maybe gaming needs to implode and start all over again...

 

[DCharlie]

Just look at the way Sony and MS subsidize console costs...why should they have to do that? Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations. You cannot have a market if the consumer is not willing to buy $500+ console's and buy $60 games.

So maybe gaming needs to implode and start all over again...

it's interesting as Nintendo's solution appears to be to over charge tech -again- and the games will hit $60 anyways right?

Console gaming doesn't need a renaissance at all - the model works, the fact Nintendo made out like bandits reselling the gamecube to blue rinse gamers should not be confused with what gamers expect.

Unless of course Wii U launches with online bingo - then we might as well all resign ourselves to another 8 years in fucking 2006 land.

So maybe gaming needs to implode and start all over again...

Honest question : Has gaming seen any rate of consilidation above and beyond every other industry during the last 4 years ? It's been mentioned elsewhere - a bump up in tech is going to -reduce- costs, not increase them. Bad business decissions or poor sales will still exist but that's NOTHING to do with the baseline spec of the machines and any suggestion that the Wii U is somehow some cost watching industry saving Jesus machine whilst every other machine is some powerhungry demon that's over priced, yet - by nthing logic - also -not that much- more powerful than the wii U - is motherfucking baffling.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

yeah its funny how nintendo still takes what ? ten bucks out of every game yet still makes a profit on hardware?


and then sony/ms who are made out to be the bad guys.

 

[GoofsterStud]

I will be happy! I will buy a lot of games have a lot of fun and don't mind spending up to $800 on a deluxe console! I'm not going to spend a dime on a console that feels like it was meant for a previous generation though.

 

[Huff]

it's interesting as Nintendo's solution appears to be to over charge tech -again- and the games will hit $60 anyways right?

Console gaming doesn't need a renaissance at all - the model works, the fact Nintendo made out like bandits reselling the gamecube to blue rinse gamers should not be confused with what gamers expect.

Unless of course Wii U launches with online bingo - then we might as well all resign ourselves to another 8 years in fucking 2006 land.

I am completely unsurprised that Nintendo fans are calling for a reallignment of expectations - is the next post about bankrupting developers or is that just too fucking obvious?

pramath already beat you dc

 

[D-e-f-]

yeah its funny how nintendo still takes what ? ten bucks out of every game yet still makes a profit on hardware?


and then sony/ms who are made out to be the bad guys.

MS went and charged for multiplayer; Sony, well ... 599

They all wanna make money.

 

[F#A#Oo]

it's interesting as Nintendo's solution appears to be to over charge tech -again- and the games will hit $60 anyways right?

Console gaming doesn't need a renaissance at all - the model works, the fact Nintendo made out like bandits reselling the gamecube to blue rinse gamers should not be confused with what gamers expect.

Unless of course Wii U launches with online bingo - then we might as well all resign ourselves to another 8 years in fucking 2006 land.



Honest question : Has gaming seen any rate of consilidation above and beyond every other industry during the last 4 years ? It's been mentioned elsewhere - a bump up in tech is going to -reduce- costs, not increase them. Bad business decissions or poor sales will still exist but that's NOTHING to do with the baseline spec of the machines and any suggestion that the Wii U is somehow some cost watching industry saving Jesus machine whilst every other machine is some powerhungry demon that's over priced, yet - by nthing logic - also -not that much- more powerful than the wii U - is motherfucking baffling.

Check my profile...I buy all console's(no Vita though)...the PS3 has been my main console...PS2 prior to that.

Instead of trying to accuse me of things how about responding to the content of the post you're quoting?

 

[DCharlie]

Instead of trying to accuse me of things how about responding to the content of the post you're quoting?

this is the exact quote that triggered it posted by you :

" Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations"

- whilst it might be unfair for me to unload from shite from Pramath and co, the whole $499 at $299 thing ignores the way things work.

I stand by what i said - i'll be honest, i'm fucking sick of Nintendo fans. I love Nintendo as much as anyone but day on day the wider fan base is like this insufferable arsehole cousin that you can't disown shouting over your shoulder the most inanely fucking stupid bullshit. "oh just imagine if Wii U is as powerful as next gen!" "oh will someone please think of the profits!" "it's probably some secretly powerful CPU/GPU/GPGPU!" "Every game every exclusive!" etc etc


Aka : Pramath

 

[DaSorcerer7]

this is the exact quote that triggered it posted by you :

" Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations"

- whilst it might be unfair for me to unload from shite from Pramath and co, the whole $499 at $299 thing ignores the way things work.

I stand by what i said - i'll be honest, i'm fucking sick of Nintendo fans. I love Nintendo as much as anyone but day on day the wider fan base is like this insufferable arsehole cousin that you can't disown shouting over your shoulder the most inanely fucking stupid bullshit.

Aka : Pramath.

Maybe you should calm down.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Maybe you should calm down.

He actual has a point though but worded it for me so I really don't need to add more to this.

 

[DCharlie]

Maybe you should calm down.

i'm perfectly calm #sipstea

 

[Sinistral]

Ugh, similar thread titles that could be discussing the same thing is too early in the morning for me.

Costs this gen have gone up, and budgets exploded. Lots of pipelines shifted from making game assets straight away to making high poly versions and down rezzing assets. Tools for sculpting, like ZBrush, Mudbox, and 3D painting became much more paramount as normal maps, based on hi poly sculpting, which do affect lighting became the norm in video games.

Higher quality assets require more artists spending more time on said assets. The creation and management of these assets also expose weaknesses in pipelines. Basically, fidelity goes up, and everything else does as well.

This gen was mostly the break entry point for devs to adopt a more VFX approach to assets. Which is why we've seen a lot of middle tier devs fall through the cracks. Leaving AAA and indie games who are far and away from each other in terms on need in the spotlight.

The recent news of Unity on the Wii, and rumoured Unreal Engine 4 on Wii is exciting. These tools help make the pipeline streamlined and efficient. Saving time and money. It will always come down to management, however. The foundation of these new pipelines are normal, even established now. The resolution factor isn't going to be too huge.

I want to see a resurgance of middle tier devs because of these more established mechanisms, as I personally find they are the ones who push gameplay and story to a much more enjoyable extent.

PS360 you see a lot of games utilizing Unreal Engine 3. E3 and more recently you've been hearing a lot about engines. Frostbite, Unity, UE4, Fox, Luminous, etc. I don't think I'm completely off base here. It will be the battle of the engines, the pipelines next gen.

 

[F#A#Oo]

this is the exact quote that triggered it posted by you :

" Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations"

- whilst it might be unfair for me to unload from shite from Pramath and co, the whole $499 at $299 thing ignores the way things work.

I stand by what i said - i'll be honest, i'm fucking sick of Nintendo fans. I love Nintendo as much as anyone but day on day the wider fan base is like this insufferable arsehole cousin that you can't disown shouting over your shoulder the most inanely fucking stupid bullshit. "oh just imagine if Wii U is as powerful as next gen!" "oh will someone please think of the profits!" "it's probably some secretly powerful CPU/GPU/GPGPU!" "Every game every exclusive!" etc etc


Aka : Pramath

Console history pricing...

360 $299
Wii $249
Xbox $299
PS2 $299
GCN $199
Dreamcast $199
N64 $199
PS1 $299
SNES $199
Megadrive $189
NES $199

Consoles's that went higher then $299 and BOMBED!

PS3 $599,
Saturn $399,
Neo Geo $649
3DO $699...

Hmmmmm...yeah gamers really like paying money for their consoles!

 

[i-Lo]

Console history pricing...

360 $299
Wii $249
Xbox $299
PS2 $299
GCN $199
Dreamcast $199
N64 $199
PS1 $299
SNES $199
Megadrive $189
NES $199

Consoles's that went higher then $299 and BOMBED!

PS3 $599,
Saturn $399,
Neo Geo $649
3DO $699...

Hmmmmm...yeah gamers really like paying money for their consoles!

And here we go again with this w/o accounting for inflation and rise in minimum wages during that timeline.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

And here we go again with this w/o accounting for inflation and rise in minimum wages during that timeline.

GAF - home of armchair analysts!

 

[i-Lo]

GAF - home of armchair analysts!

God damn my arm chair was stolen by the poster above! Lend me thy sword so I may venture into the mystical land of GAF and bring back dat chair from Lord of $.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Console history pricing...

360 $299
Wii $249
Xbox $299
PS2 $299
GCN $199
Dreamcast $199
N64 $199
PS1 $299
SNES $199
Megadrive $189
NES $199

Consoles's that went higher then $299 and BOMBED!

PS3 $599,
Saturn $399,
Neo Geo $649
3DO $699...

Hmmmmm...yeah gamers really like paying money for their consoles!

Just a few comments about this list because i feel like you're being deliberately misleading. Firstly you list 360 at $299 and the PS3 at $599, why did you list the cheapest model for one and the most expensive for the other?

On top of that how do you determine what makes a bomb? The PS3 will end up selling more than the NES, SNES, megadrive, N64, dreamcast, GCN, xbox and probably even the 360. Why aren't any of them on the bombed list? I don't really understand how the dreamcast isn't in the bombed list either.

This isn't to say that i think it's smart to sell a really expensive console but i don't really like the way you argue it. I think $599 is too high a price for a home console and if you're going to go above $299 you really need to have a lot of good software and extras to get people on board.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as you think.

 

[DCharlie]

Console history pricing...

360 $299
Wii $249
Xbox $299
PS2 $299
GCN $199
Dreamcast $199
N64 $199
PS1 $299
SNES $199
Megadrive $189
NES $199

Consoles's that went higher then $299 and BOMBED!

PS3 $599,
Saturn $399,
Neo Geo $649
3DO $699...

Hmmmmm...yeah gamers really like paying money for their consoles!

I'm honestly confused what your point is here.

The X360 in particular was sold at a big loss - it turned out to be pretty popular - the business model is pretty clear to everyone. What Sony, Sega etc screwed up will stand as a lesson but the idea that "well, it was expensive and therefore the price will cut therefore customers expectations should reallign!" simply isn't required.

Again - Nintendo have set a great baseline for next gen to come in and look cheap for what they'll offer. I suspect Sony and MS are thrilled with the Wii U pricing.

 

[F#A#Oo]

We'll see...history says gamers won't cough up for console's...

I think only Apple coming into console gaming can break the precedent! Maybe even a Valve console.

Just a few comments about this list because i feel like you're being deliberately misleading. Firstly you list 360 at $299 and the PS3 at $599, why did you list the cheapest model for one and the most expensive for the other?

On top of that how do you determine what makes a bomb? The PS3 will end up selling more than the NES, SNES, megadrive, N64, dreamcast, GCN, xbox and probably even the 360. Why aren't any of them on the bombed list? I don't really understand how the dreamcast isn't in the bombed list either.

This isn't to say that i think it's smart to sell a really expensive console but i don't really like the way you argue it. I think $599 is too high a price for a home console and if you're going to go above $299 you really need to have a lot of good software and extras to get people on board.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as you think.

I'm talking about launch price not lifetime sales and performance...PS3 bombed at launch due to pricing. I listed the cheapest entry. The 20gb PS3 was almost non-existant...and Sony dropped it very soon after launch.

 

[Huff]

Maybe you should calm down.

its just how DC is dawg

 

[DCharlie]

I listed the cheapest entry. The 20gb PS3 was almost non-existant...

just cosigning this point.

 

[thehypocrite]

Consoles would be bought. I do think that the technological aspect of the leap is not as important as this leap reflecting itself on the new gaming experiences that will be served by this console.

If is just more power, then why not get a PC instead of buying them? If it's just Uncharted/Killzone/Halo/Gears with a nicer coat of paint and derivative gameplay, they shouldn't be made at all. It needs to bring something new, new experiences. The new gen should be moment in which the marriage of hardware and software innovation is executed to enable new experiences.

At least that's what will motivate me to get them. 1st to blow me away with innovative/futuristic features get's my money.

 

[Massa]

The next generation of consoles is going to be even better for small/indie game developers to thrive on Steam/XBLA/PSN.

It blows my mind when Nintendo fanboys claim the Wii was the solution to rising dev costs. It was clearly the worse choice from a development point of view, with a very unique architecture that was tough to scale down to, not to mention the terrible distribution model, where games either died at retail or had to deal with Nintendo's insane online distribution policies.

 

[cube444]

We will never surpass the leap Mario 64 and some of the first good 3D games offered. Ever.

Biggest leap for me was Dreamcast.

 

[LastNac]

You can probably expect that at 720p and some other compromises, sure. At least from SE, and in cinematics. In-game scenes won't have that level of animation and complexity.

See, that's where I really want to see more money put, "that" being animations and complexity. Next-Gen will be about the power but it also should be about the details as well.

 

[thehypocrite]

We'll see...history says gamers won't cough up for console's...

I think only Apple coming into console gaming can break the precedent! Maybe even a Valve console.


I'm talking about launch price not lifetime sales and performance...PS3 bombed at launch due to pricing. I listed the cheapest entry. The 20gb PS3 was almost non-existant...and Sony dropped it very soon after launch.

Apple will never enter directly in the gaming arena. They would suck at it, I don't know why people think they'll be any good, what's the rationale behind these type of posts?

 

[Log4Girlz]

The biggest leap will always be from n64/ps1 to GC/PS2. Diminishing returns and whatnot.

 

[AstroNut325]

Graphics threads always remind me of global warming threads. I wonder why that is...

Indeed! If we don't adopt/accept the Nintendo method the industry will crash and burn!

Yeah... No thanks. I want to see continued advancements in all areas of games. If the next gen consoles are packing 3TF GPUs I'll be there at or near launch. Else PC only for me.

 

[Shaffield]

Guys what if graphics are so good that we can see all the bullets and each blade of grass for only 69.99$ (+20$ online pass, +30$ DLC) while we shoot dudes as a bald asshole?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Console history pricing...

360 $299
Wii $249
Xbox $299
PS2 $299
GCN $199
Dreamcast $199
N64 $199
PS1 $299
SNES $199
Megadrive $189
NES $199

Consoles's that went higher then $299 and BOMBED!

PS3 $599,
Saturn $399,
Neo Geo $649
3DO $699...

Hmmmmm...yeah gamers really like paying money for their consoles!

Xbox 360w/20GB HDD was $399 at launch. And PS3 bombed? I think it outsold most of those cheaper systems you have listed.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Apple will never enter directly in the gaming arena. They would suck at it, I don't know why people think they'll be any good, what's the rationale behind these type of posts?

I'm not saying I want them to enter...but what I am saying is if any company is going to manage to get people to buy $400-$500 console's en mass then Apple can.

 

[KageMaru]

The reality of this situation is that this transition won't be the biggest ever. People who understand tech know this already. PC GPUs have gone to a point where console manufacturers can't pack in a GPU as big, hot, or expensive as today's fastest cards. However, that doesn't mean it won't be a large, and noticeable leap.

So either knowingly or not, the OP created a thread based on a question that's inevitable. These consoles won't be the "biggest leap of all time", but I think gamers will still be happy and impressed.

A better way to pose the question is how would people react if the PS4/720 were barely more powerful than the Wii-U. If that were to happen, then we would see laughter and meltdowns, and it would be glorious. =P

 

[AdventureRacing]

I'm talking about launch price not lifetime sales and performance...PS3 bombed at launch due to pricing. I listed the cheapest entry. The 20gb PS3 was almost non-existant...and Sony dropped it very soon after launch.

Judging by the 360s ASP for most of its life the most expensive SKU has been the best selling. Even if you're only talking about launch i still don't see how you can list the PS3 as a bomb and not something like the dreamcast.

We also have few examples to work with. The saturn, 3DO and neo geo failed for many reasons not just their price and they were a long time ago.

Again i'm not arguing it's smart to sell yor console for as much as the PS3 launched at but i also don't think it's impossible to do so. I'm also curious how microsofts plan of letting people pay over time will affect this.

 

[commish]

The real question: what will everyone do when the iPad is more powerful than ps4 2 years after it launches?

 

[whalleywhat]

Which still has nothing to do with hardware.
Better hardware *objectively* means just more possibilities.

How you are going to use these possibilities it's another topic.
If you are going to blow away more money of what you could realistically expect to make back with sales, just because you feel compelled to go "full Hollywood", then as a developer/publisher you have a problem of mismanagement and a bad business model. Nothing more, nothing less.

On a side note, it's telling how many people even on this forum seem to think that new consoles actually raised the bar even for PC games (using usually dumb arguments like "Point me a game like Gears of Wars before 2003") and ignore how much more powerful hardware was available in the PC market years before.
It just shows how they think that the only way to advance the industry and to make a proper use of that hardware is "Let's go full Hollywood", "let's invest gargantuan budgets in presentation and marketing".
Apparently the fact that games way more ambitious in design were made even in the '90s doesn't have any relevance to them.

"Point me a Gears of War in 2003on PC"? Seriously? Point me something comparable in scope and ambitions to Operation Flashpoint (the first) on consoles even today.
Or to Arma II and III, just to point its natural evolutions. And compared to many triple A console games these are products made on shoestring budgets.

That's how developers made use of superior hardware capabilities (contextually to their time, obviously) with inferior budgets before someone mislead many of them into thinking that the Michael Bay approach is the Holy Grail of this industry.

When most people itt say they're excited about the next gen of consoles, they're saying they want to be 'wowed' by the visuals of new games. Games like ARMA don't 'wow' people. They're impressive academically because you know they aren't possible on console hardware. What people really want is to see what studios like Rockstar and Naughty Dog are going to do with new hardware, which is all about the creation of vast amounts of high quality assets, and those games are going to be expensive as hell. And the model is massively profitable for those that can succeed at it.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Excellent stuff thanks for that.

I still think it's naive to disregard hardware increases as not affecting things. I do not believe that in one generation developers and publishers got stupid...that kind of mismanagement already existed prior.

Expectations are linked to increases in hardware improvements...and in this generation expectations have been mis-managed to the detriment of everyone working in the industry.

Just look at the way Sony and MS subsidize console costs...why should they have to do that? Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations. You cannot have a market if the consumer is not willing to buy $500+ console's and buy $60 games.

So maybe gaming needs to implode and start all over again...

And consumers win. MS/Sony model benefit the consumer. Nintendo model rips the consumer off. $250 for 3DS was a high way robbery. $300 for the WiiU is ridiculous. Nintendo is most likely making bank on a $300 WiiU. They don´t give a shit about consumers. And they don´t lower most of their games prices either. Yeah, Sony/MS business model is much better for the consumers.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The real question: what will everyone do when the iPad is more powerful than ps4 2 years after it launches?

Continue playing with buttons right?

 

[Writer_Head]

Diminishing Returns

 

[Eideka]

If the next gen consoles are packing 3TF GPUs I'll be there at or near launch. Else PC only for me.

I have a problem with this frame of mind. What about games ?

I'm all for high-end GPUs in the next-gen consoles but in the end what matters to be is the software.
I'm positive the "quantum leap" will happen by the way.

 

[Shaffield]

I have a problem with this frame of mind. What about games ?

I'm all for high-end GPUs in the next-gen consoles but in the end what matters to be is the software.
I'm positive the "quantum leap" will happen by the way.

Well if all you want is the shiniest thing where you fire a gun from a first person perspective, "games" is not really an issue.

 

[grimshawish]

The real question: what will everyone do when the iPad is more powerful than ps4 2 years after it launches?

It won't. It doesn't make sense for it to even if it were trending towards that (it isn't).

 

[teh_pwn]

If we force everyone to use Super8 film, we'll keep film costs under control by making blockbusters impossible while keeping all jobs in 'Merica with inept management in control. Victory for consumers!

I have a problem with this frame of mind. What about games ?

I'm all for high-end GPUs in the next-gen consoles but in the end what matters to be is the software.
I'm positive the "quantum leap" will happen by the way.

Hardware doesn't expand gameplay possibilities?

Up until now, consoles have trended towards being larger and more power hungry. We can't have 400W monsters the size of mid-tower PCs, so it's going to be a struggle to match the last two "generational leaps".

Sir, you forget consoles are optimized and have superior GUIs and APIs...or something.

 

[Meelow]

this is the exact quote that triggered it posted by you :

" Because us gamer's are not willing to pay the true cost of a console+give them a profit margin per unit sold. Gamer's want a $499 console for $299.

It's clear that console gaming needs to have a renaissance...a re-adjusting of expectations"

- whilst it might be unfair for me to unload from shite from Pramath and co, the whole $499 at $299 thing ignores the way things work.

I stand by what i said - i'll be honest, i'm fucking sick of Nintendo fans. I love Nintendo as much as anyone but day on day the wider fan base is like this insufferable arsehole cousin that you can't disown shouting over your shoulder the most inanely fucking stupid bullshit. "oh just imagine if Wii U is as powerful as next gen!" "oh will someone please think of the profits!" "it's probably some secretly powerful CPU/GPU/GPGPU!" "Every game every exclusive!" etc etc


Aka : Pramath

How do you think Nintendo fans feel always hearing how amazing the PS4 and Xbox 720 will be and that to some gamers they act like the Wii U is last/current gen but not next gen or act like it doesn't exist?

I don't see Nintendo fans constantly saying how amazing the Wii U is and if they do say that they say it in Wii U threads just like how the PS4 and Xbox 720 comments should be in PS4 and Xbox 720 threads imo.

 

[LastNac]

So it's a coincidence that this generation we had more studio's close than any previous generation?

No...the reality is that costs have gone up to unsustainable levels. Games have to sell over a million to get a return some have to sell millions.

When a game like LA Noire sells 5m copies but is still a failure there is something wrong.

During the PS2 era if your game sold 450k it got platinum status and was deemed a success. Bayonetta has sold 1.4m copies last I checked and to SEGA that was/is a failure. It sold 4 times the number of copies a PS2 era needed for Platinum status.

Better hardware does increase costs. You think Nintendo gimp their hardware because they're cheap? They know the costs and they are having to balance technology with cost efficiency.

How much of that is just fucking greed, though? In previous Gens developers weren't shut down if they broke even and a profit was a profit, regardless of how much. No, the problem this Gen aren't resources or cost, its publisher expectation. The mentality now is that economically your game can technically make a profit at 2 million sold but publishers deem anything under 5 million a failure.

Going forward publishers need to have reasonable expectations and realize that not fucking everything is going to do COD numbers. Games budget's should be reasonably configured to a realistic profit. A profit that is still a profit.

Fucking greed, not dev costs have been the thing to put people out of business and lead to cancel products. Activision wanted True Crime to unrealisticly do GTA numbers, we know what happened to it. Same thing with Dead Space, EA feels DS3 has to hit 5 million sold in order to be a success. Come on now, there would most likely be a profit at 2.5 million to 3 million units sold. Just pure greed.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Biggest leap for me was Dreamcast.

Same! I have a feeling nothing will top the first time I saw Soul Calibur in motion. /sigh

Note: I do have to say the Frog video from the new Crysis, is a distant second.

 

[KageMaru]

How do you think Nintendo fans feel always hearing how amazing the PS4 and Xbox 720 will be and that to some gamers they act like the Wii U is last/current gen but not next gen or act like it doesn't exist?

I don't see Nintendo fans constantly saying how amazing the Wii U is and if they do say that they say it in Wii U threads just like how the PS4 and Xbox 720 comments should be in PS4 and Xbox 720 threads imo.

Both sides are guilty.

Xbox and PS fans do exactly as you say.

Meanwhile, Nintendo fans have typically dismissed the importance of technology and console strength only to now act like experts on the subject. You guys also have this weird assumption that the gap between the Wii-U and the other two systems won't be that big.

 

[thehypocrite]

I'm not saying I want them to enter...but what I am saying is if any company is going to manage to get people to buy $400-$500 console's en mass then Apple can.

No they can't, show me this hypothetical scenario where they would justify to consumers in general to buy these machines? What exclusive content & experiences they would offer? Apple could get their faithful to buy anything they produce, but their faithful are just a minority, thus it wouldn't make business sense for them to engage in this endeavor, it would be another Apple TV/Pippin/Niche product.

This is without addressing the fact that gaming doesn't aligns with the strenghts and culture that apple has. I would prefer if we stopped using Apple like a gaming bogieman, they are more than satisfied with the model they have know, it makes absurd profits as well because their investment is smaller. The gaming arena is more costly and less profitable for them to engage in what they obviously consider a lesser market.

 

[LastNac]

If you're speaking of games like Uncharted and Red Dead Redemption, hardware is required to make those so cinematic and huge. That's part of the hollywood blockbuster analogy; films cost fuckloads to make.

Uncharteds are made on a very reasonable budget actually. Situations like that the difference is pure talent.

 

[whalleywhat]

Uncharteds are made on a very reasonable budget actually. Situations like that the difference is pure talent.

Please.

 

[Sentenza]

When most people itt say they're excited about the next gen of consoles, they're saying they want to be 'wowed' by the visuals of new games. Games like ARMA don't 'wow' people.

Yeah, well, I beg to differ.