for real link had pink hair in alttp but that might of been a real fan who made an honest mistake
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How would you react if Link were a girl in a mainline Zelda game
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
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for real link had pink hair in alttp but that might of been a real fan who made an honest mistake
A Link to the Past
Banned
Actually, I was more referring to the first two Zeldas, where Link very distinctly has brown hair
i assumed you where talkin about alttp cause you seem to really like it after all it is youre user name
Dice//
Banned
if i was a bitter fan about anything, it's that the pink hair wasn't an option in Hyrule Warriors.
There might have been, or rather, was probably some, even if I wasn't aware of it. I do know that Shuhei Yoshida was worried there would be a backlash over the female protagonist based on, I dunno, his own notions, but there wasn't really. Maybe we should look at that as progress? Female action game protagonists aren't a new thing though, despite Yoshida's misgivings.
Then again, you have Gamergate and everything surrounding it. You have YouTube and Twitter comments. You have applied hatred towards women through words and at times, horrifyingly, through actions. And even if it's an minority of extremist male gamers (not sure about numbers; I try to avoid the topic when I can because it just fucks me up), it paints the whole community in a bad light, and I don't always have enough evidence to see past that. Talking to more male gamers personally is definitely helping my own biases though.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's fine
Though it should be noted (unless it's different for juniors?) that you can edit your posts rather than making new onesI find these topics so odd and depressing if only for the fact that people seem more interested in debating to no end the emotional and illogical, though not necessarily unimportant or invalid, reasons people may or may not be in favor of a Female Link and go on for pages about bullshit semantics of whether or not the in-game lore and franchise history allows or does not allow for Link to be a girl. Yet few, if any, actually talk about the consistent and repeated gender inequality within the series in regards to the titular character's portrayal and her role within the franchise. It's always about Link.
I feel like I'm in the minority when it comes to being rather strongly opposed to a Female Link, but extremely adamant about improving and elevating Zelda's portrayal and role within the franchise. I'll admit my desires for Link to stay as he is are inherently selfish. Based mostly upon my history with franchise and how I've come to view him and the series as a whole over the 23 years or so I've been playing it. To me Link is a defined character outside any specific installment of the series, and certainly not my avatar within the game. Zelda as well falls into this. Were Nintendo to change Link into a girl I'd accept it. It wouldn't destroy the character or series in any way. I'm not a completely selfish asshole. It's their franchise and character to do with as they please. Nothing wrong with wanting a female protagonist. But all the same the image of Link and Zelda and the history I have with the franchise is well ingrained in my mind. Plus I have other, at least as I see it, more valid reasons for not wanting Link to change, or maybe more accurately for Zelda to replace Female Link.
I personally find Zelda to be a far more compelling and worthwhile candidate as the female protagonist of the series. Based on just a general belief of not changing established characters unless there is a compelling reason to do so, in this case there not being as valid a one given there is already capable female character within the franchise. (Were there no Zelda I'd be inclined to make Link's gender between titles more fluid.) And also due to the fact that given the franchise's less than stellar portrayal of Zelda over the years, almost universally undermining her and her more traditional/stereotypical feminine depiction, that placing her in the role of the protagonist would carry a much greater weight than a Female Link would.
I also have misgivings about the subtle but likely undertone such a move would be sending in regards to gender swapping Link. Changing Link into a girl can be viewed as snubbing Zelda and her more feminine characteristic. While I don't believe there are any inherent qualities that Link possesses that a girl could not but given the series' history electing to swap Link's gender and not elevate Zelda instead could be seen as once again dismissing the more traditional female characteristic Zelda often displays over the more boyish/male characteristic Link is attributed with. Again given the series' history where more than a few times Zelda has been portrayed as more tomboyish or masculine and when her Princess Zelda persona is revealed she's captured or otherwise rendered impotent and helpless in one way or another. Basically Link can be a girl since she'll possess the more stereotypical boyish traits of a hero, but Zelda cannot because she's more feminine and thus lacks the heroic traits needed, most likely requiring to be saved.
There's also the issue of how Female Link would be regarded among the fanbase. While this might be a less than important issue I think it's still worth considering. To me the chances of Link's gender becoming fluid within the playerbase would be very low. Even in series where gender options are given like say Mass Effect the male character is still considered the default Shepard, while the female(despite being far superior) Shepard is almost always referred to as such or FemShep for short, with MaleShep is rarely used. And this applies to most other games of that nature. Given the Zelda series is 30 years old I have little hope that Female Link will fair any better. Link as a male will always be viewed as the default, while Female Link will be the other, Link with boobs, especially if Nintendo fails to support her. Zelda on the other hand is already well established and known by players. Despite the old meme, people know Link isn't Zelda and Zelda isn't Link. So in terms of expanding people's views on gender roles and what men and women are or not capable of I again find Zelda to be a far more compelling candidate.
This also brings into question how gameplay changes would be regarded. Is new feature X something Link just does or is it because it's Female Link. Which doesn't even take into account the very possible scenario where Nintendo specifically does change things because they feel they need to justify Link being a girl in the gameplay and her appearance. Such a scenario doesn't really apply to Zelda, who as an already well established character, has a myriad of gameplay possibility and differences from Link that are attributed to her. She does them because she's Zelda and not Link. Instead of doing them because she's female Link and not "real" Link.
For me an ideal situation is that we reach a point in the series where Link and Zelda are on equal footing. Where we have games with Link as the sole protagonist, others where Zelda is the sole protagonist and some where both share the spotlight, taking what ST did even further and in more equitable directions. I like both characters a lot. I've connected and related to both in different ways over the years and want to see them be treated more equally. I personally see value in maintaining their genders as they are and utilizing both characters to a greater extent. They could be very interesting foils to one another, as has been evident in the past to one degree or another.
I'm sure I'm missing something or not fully explaining myself somewhere but I'm tired of thinking. So that's the long and not so short of it.
I feel like I'm in the minority when it comes to being rather strongly opposed to a Female Link, but extremely adamant about improving and elevating Zelda's portrayal and role within the franchise. I'll admit my desires for Link to stay as he is are inherently selfish. Based mostly upon my history with franchise and how I've come to view him and the series as a whole over the 23 years or so I've been playing it. To me Link is a defined character outside any specific installment of the series, and certainly not my avatar within the game. Zelda as well falls into this. Were Nintendo to change Link into a girl I'd accept it. It wouldn't destroy the character or series in any way. I'm not a completely selfish asshole. It's their franchise and character to do with as they please. Nothing wrong with wanting a female protagonist. But all the same the image of Link and Zelda and the history I have with the franchise is well ingrained in my mind. Plus I have other, at least as I see it, more valid reasons for not wanting Link to change, or maybe more accurately for Zelda to replace Female Link.
I personally find Zelda to be a far more compelling and worthwhile candidate as the female protagonist of the series. Based on just a general belief of not changing established characters unless there is a compelling reason to do so, in this case there not being as valid a one given there is already capable female character within the franchise. (Were there no Zelda I'd be inclined to make Link's gender between titles more fluid.) And also due to the fact that given the franchise's less than stellar portrayal of Zelda over the years, almost universally undermining her and her more traditional/stereotypical feminine depiction, that placing her in the role of the protagonist would carry a much greater weight than a Female Link would.
I also have misgivings about the subtle but likely undertone such a move would be sending in regards to gender swapping Link. Changing Link into a girl can be viewed as snubbing Zelda and her more feminine characteristic. While I don't believe there are any inherent qualities that Link possesses that a girl could not but given the series' history electing to swap Link's gender and not elevate Zelda instead could be seen as once again dismissing the more traditional female characteristic Zelda often displays over the more boyish/male characteristic Link is attributed with. Again given the series' history where more than a few times Zelda has been portrayed as more tomboyish or masculine and when her Princess Zelda persona is revealed she's captured or otherwise rendered impotent and helpless in one way or another. Basically Link can be a girl since she'll possess the more stereotypical boyish traits of a hero, but Zelda cannot because she's more feminine and thus lacks the heroic traits needed, most likely requiring to be saved.
There's also the issue of how Female Link would be regarded among the fanbase. While this might be a less than important issue I think it's still worth considering. To me the chances of Link's gender becoming fluid within the playerbase would be very low. Even in series where gender options are given like say Mass Effect the male character is still considered the default Shepard, while the female(despite being far superior) Shepard is almost always referred to as such or FemShep for short, with MaleShep is rarely used. And this applies to most other games of that nature. Given the Zelda series is 30 years old I have little hope that Female Link will fair any better. Link as a male will always be viewed as the default, while Female Link will be the other, Link with boobs, especially if Nintendo fails to support her. Zelda on the other hand is already well established and known by players. Despite the old meme, people know Link isn't Zelda and Zelda isn't Link. So in terms of expanding people's views on gender roles and what men and women are or not capable of I again find Zelda to be a far more compelling candidate.
This also brings into question how gameplay changes would be regarded. Is new feature X something Link just does or is it because it's Female Link. Which doesn't even take into account the very possible scenario where Nintendo specifically does change things because they feel they need to justify Link being a girl in the gameplay and her appearance. Such a scenario doesn't really apply to Zelda, who as an already well established character, has a myriad of gameplay possibility and differences from Link that are attributed to her. She does them because she's Zelda and not Link. Instead of doing them because she's female Link and not "real" Link.
For me an ideal situation is that we reach a point in the series where Link and Zelda are on equal footing. Where we have games with Link as the sole protagonist, others where Zelda is the sole protagonist and some where both share the spotlight, taking what ST did even further and in more equitable directions. I like both characters a lot. I've connected and related to both in different ways over the years and want to see them be treated more equally. I personally see value in maintaining their genders as they are and utilizing both characters to a greater extent. They could be very interesting foils to one another, as has been evident in the past to one degree or another.
I'm sure I'm missing something or not fully explaining myself somewhere but I'm tired of thinking. So that's the long and not so short of it.
mariosbrother
Member
My preference is that Link stays male, but I'm not opposed to the introduction of a female main character to play as, so long as the story is crafted to accommodate either choice.
I don't understand the sudden (and recurring) request to have Link be female, just as I wouldn't understand a desire to have Samus be male. These are long established characters. I can certainly understand a player wanting to play as a different gender character, to satisfy either some psychological projective desire or simply a means to change things up.
I don't understand the sudden (and recurring) request to have Link be female, just as I wouldn't understand a desire to have Samus be male. These are long established characters. I can certainly understand a player wanting to play as a different gender character, to satisfy either some psychological projective desire or simply a means to change things up.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'll just say this
How often does "I want Zelda to be a better character" come up when the discussion is not about female Link?
How often does "I want Zelda to be a better character" come up when the discussion is not about female Link?
Great post. You're one of the people I had in mind who had convincing things to say on the other side of the argument.
I had an idea for a true co-op game earlier in the thread with Link and Zelda, but I was okay with both of them being girls, haha.
If we DID focus on Princess Zelda or regular plain old reincarnation-of-the-Goddess Zelda as the protagonist, I still hope she gets a horse and a sword. New magical abilities would be cool, but that classic OoT combat has yet to be surpassed in my eyes.
Almost never.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Why would people rather have a drastic change (Zelda as a protagonist) rather than a cosmetic change (Link being female)?
There is precedent for Links having different appearances. There is not precedent for Zelda as the lone protagonist in non spinoff games.
There is precedent for Links having different appearances. There is not precedent for Zelda as the lone protagonist in non spinoff games.
It's if you were to take the stance that female representation was equally important to maintaining the recognizable template of a character. He believes gender is a part of that template, which I disagree with, but either scenario--female Link or main character Zelda-- would honestly be fine with me.
I don't really understand what that is supposed to prove.
You are basically arguing that because female link is a less popular idea, it must therefore be better.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Yeah...
That's just a POV shift more than anything. Usually Zelda's rather active right up til she gets cornered by Ganon.
Not usually sword and shield action but doing thwart the evil while running a country kinda thing.
There are ways to spin that creatively into a broader game. It wouldn't be a traditional Zelda game by any means, but attacking it from the angle of someone who knows that's going on and trying to proactively stop stuff from boiling out of control rather than a reactive hero that is really only following the advice of the proactive character anyway...
A Link to the Past
Banned
No, I am arguing that this concern is offered as a "but what about Zelda" rather than it being an individual concern. Kind of like how that poster from earlier complained about how non-badass male characters are lacking (and that's not even true, but that's beside the point), but if I had to guess, that poster doesn't usually care about that unless it's in the context of a lack of strong women in games.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
i think they're implying that it's a little strange that ideas like that Zelda could be a protag, or that female representation within the series could stand to be improved, tend to be fielded most often as responses or alternatives to the idea that Link can be female, as though most people don't seem to really give a shit at all until it would come at the expense of the precious status-quo
From me, I try and bring up whenever applicable. But even if I didn't you're not saying anything that discounts anything I said. Trying to discredit my position based on a technicality is pretty disingenuous. If my points have merit it doesn't really matter where or how often they are brought up.
Fully agreed. Zelda can be her own hero with her own abilities and traits, but lets not get too crazy.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I was legitimately asking you a question for you to mull over. If it's something that you legitimately, uniquely hold, then that's awesome, and apparently my point does not apply to you. However, I cannot help but note that there are so many more people saying "but what about Zelda?" than I ever do outside of threads like these. Ultimately, it becomes a question of why it has to be Zelda or Linkle instead of Zelda and Linkle.
I'm sure quite a lot of those people would be perfectly content to continue playing as male Link, but have heard your concern about wanting to play a female role in the Zelda universe, and offer that up as an idea that addresses most, though perhaps not all, of your concerns, while being less disruptive to their concepts of the series' characters.
I really don't understand why you feel that should condemn that idea.
Personally, whether or not Zelda is ever playable, I want to see her used better. The "princess in distress" archetype is pretty shitty, and I'd like to see the series move past it.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
honestly why should i or anyone else care about whether or not the creator's potential alternate vision for their characters moving forward would be disruptive toward the unusually rigid 'concept' some choose to hold of an ever-changing blank slate character whose quirks, charm, and ability to serve as a vehicle for gameplay and exposition are genuinely about as gender-agnostic as possible
and i'm not sure why the most suggested alternative to changing link, !!!to avoid disrupting character concepts!!! ...is to subvert Zelda's role in the series or to just up and change her character instead (??? am i the only one who caught this) especially when her portrayal has arguably been as constant as Links (maybe a bit less so considering that this character y'all want changed instead is actually a character).
Good posting, Enduin. I do not agree with you 100%, but you make compelling arguments. As I said openly, my main reason against a female Link is also a selfish one: Despite Link becoming less and less of an "avatar for the player", I still like to immerse myself when playing a Zelda-game. The Zelda-series always presented a very classic, classy and elegant canon-fairy tale setting: I'm a hero with sword and shield. I defeat the evil wizard against all odds. And I save the princess. It's a simple concept, but the Zelda-series is doing an exceptional job at treating these basics with dignity. While some of you do not like the damsel in distress-story, the Zelda-games do it in a well-done matter. Look at most other similar games, and it's always about male power fantasies, where you're a muscly knight and the princess is a hot, busty, helpless girl. Then you hack and slash your way through the game until you reach the game, where the hero is, most likely, rewarded with the girl AS the reward. Zelda-games don't do that. They put you in the shoes of an innocent, brave hero, sword in one hand, shield in the other, and from there you gotta figure out what to do. That's why I strongly feel that Link is a rare kind of male video game character.
So instead of changing Link, improving on Zelda would be the better choice. Tbh I think those that want more female characters should be incredibly frustrated over the lack of a better princess Zelda, because WE KNOW that she's a capable hero. She was Shiek! She can sneak, she's acrobatically skilled, she knows some tools, etc.. Unlike changing Link's sex, nothing needs to be forced on an existing character here, since Zelda already is a character that could do more than just sit in her castle and hope for Link to arrive. It's all there.
Since I'd still prefer to control Link as sword fighter, my ideal scenario includes a Zelda-game where Link and Zelda are traveling together. It's common for Link to have companions, even interactive ones (see TWW). It's just a small step further to make it permanent over the course of a whole game. I'd love if you were walking around Hyrule, wandering through a dark forest, and as you control Link or Zelda, the two of them talk with each other (*gasp* voice acting!). Could be funny, light-hearted stuff. If you control Link and you're about to enter a dark cave, Zelda would hesitate to go inside and Link would say "Don't worry, I'll protect you!". If you control Zelda, Link would hesitate for a moment and Zelda would say "What is it? Get going, you milquetoast!" and he'd quietly reply " ... yes ..." and follow you. Stuff like that. It'd be easy to seperate the two's skillset, too. Link is an expert for close combat and tool assessment. Zelda would use spells and could be hieved to higher levels by Link, exploring locations Link cannot reach. In a more elaborate version of GTA5's multi-character-concept and mixing it with Pikmin 3's character management, you could even send one character off to execute a certain order, while you proceed by yourself with the other one. In the end, it'd be just really nice to see those two characters cooperate with each other.
And seeing how I started writing about gameplay mechanics, this is a part that really upsets me about the recurrence of the "Should Link be female?"-topics: It deflects from discussion about important aspects of the game, ya know, its gameplay. It feels like people have talked more about Link's sex than what they actually want from Zelda U as a game. Instead of talking about items, dungeons, story, world, means of transport, new gimmick, villain, etc., it's this least important topic that keeps hogging everybody's attention. While I think it certainly is a fun thought to entertaint, it makes it seem as if the Zelda-series is in dire need of being saved from sexism. What it really needs to be saved from is its tired formula and the many flaws the past Zelda-games had. That's my stance on the matter, to flesh it out a bit more akin to Enduin.
So instead of changing Link, improving on Zelda would be the better choice. Tbh I think those that want more female characters should be incredibly frustrated over the lack of a better princess Zelda, because WE KNOW that she's a capable hero. She was Shiek! She can sneak, she's acrobatically skilled, she knows some tools, etc.. Unlike changing Link's sex, nothing needs to be forced on an existing character here, since Zelda already is a character that could do more than just sit in her castle and hope for Link to arrive. It's all there.
Since I'd still prefer to control Link as sword fighter, my ideal scenario includes a Zelda-game where Link and Zelda are traveling together. It's common for Link to have companions, even interactive ones (see TWW). It's just a small step further to make it permanent over the course of a whole game. I'd love if you were walking around Hyrule, wandering through a dark forest, and as you control Link or Zelda, the two of them talk with each other (*gasp* voice acting!). Could be funny, light-hearted stuff. If you control Link and you're about to enter a dark cave, Zelda would hesitate to go inside and Link would say "Don't worry, I'll protect you!". If you control Zelda, Link would hesitate for a moment and Zelda would say "What is it? Get going, you milquetoast!" and he'd quietly reply " ... yes ..." and follow you. Stuff like that. It'd be easy to seperate the two's skillset, too. Link is an expert for close combat and tool assessment. Zelda would use spells and could be hieved to higher levels by Link, exploring locations Link cannot reach. In a more elaborate version of GTA5's multi-character-concept and mixing it with Pikmin 3's character management, you could even send one character off to execute a certain order, while you proceed by yourself with the other one. In the end, it'd be just really nice to see those two characters cooperate with each other.
And seeing how I started writing about gameplay mechanics, this is a part that really upsets me about the recurrence of the "Should Link be female?"-topics: It deflects from discussion about important aspects of the game, ya know, its gameplay. It feels like people have talked more about Link's sex than what they actually want from Zelda U as a game. Instead of talking about items, dungeons, story, world, means of transport, new gimmick, villain, etc., it's this least important topic that keeps hogging everybody's attention. While I think it certainly is a fun thought to entertaint, it makes it seem as if the Zelda-series is in dire need of being saved from sexism. What it really needs to be saved from is its tired formula and the many flaws the past Zelda-games had. That's my stance on the matter, to flesh it out a bit more akin to Enduin.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Best choice: Girl Link and good Zelda
There's a difference between people reacting to a new exciting game, and ingrained, ummm... "passionate" fanbases. And by those, I mean people who will slam their foot to the ground on anything that steps outside the norm of a franchise that has stuck to repeated conventions for 30 years.
Look at any thread on this topic and you will find a sizable share of irrational reactions simply exclaiming "No, okay? Just no. Link is a BOY. Make Zelda the hero then, but Link is a BOY."
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Except for the fact Link was so sexually ambiguous in the early Hyrule Warriors reveal trailers that people actually thought he was female. In terms of masculine characteristics, Link is not and never has been the most buff of characters.
If the Legend of Zelda was more realistic, Link being the swordfighting one-man army that he is, by the end of any given Zelda title, I think a more realistic Link would be more like Ike from Fire Emblem, going from this:
to this
by the end of any given journey of his.
but seeing as he looks like this :
And SOMEHOW manages to overcome this:
In a SWORD DUEL
I think it's safe to say that his appearance (and thus gender) lacks any real impact on the story.
Replacing him with a woman would change nothing. He isn't even above average male height, let alone weight.
Even if he was sexually ambiguous, (He's not. Some people just need glasses apparently, or perhaps just don't understand the difference between men and women without patting their crotches.) it's irrelevant. Math has already shown that he will always be a lean, pail skinned male with blondish hair and pointy ears. He cannot feasibly be anything else without throwing all logical consistency the series has out the window.
You implying that it's OK to change his sex just because he's skinny and not very tall is embarrassing.
As of right now, and probably the forseeable future, the creator's vision is of a male Link, and people are requesting that it be altered to fit their concept. So probably not as compelling an argument as you hoped it would be.
I personally wouldn't be particularly disturbed by a female Link, but I am by the somewhat vitriolic attitude people have in their demands for one.
Spring-Loaded
Member
What changes are acceptable?
I think we can have a discussion on mechanics and also have a discussion on female Link. Just no one has really bothered to make a thread discussing mechanics and gameplay stuff in Zelda. What's wrong, what could be adjusted or fixed. Just as long as we don't bring Egoraptor's video on OoT into the equation it's all good.
Even the the old Zelda series OT is dead. More people argue about their favorites with hyperbolic statements and criticisms which kill that stuff (see Egoraptor's OoT video).
EDIT: Also Zelda/Sheik is only in one game. That one Zelda doesn't mean every Zelda can fight. Of course you can write a new one and have a completely different premise. Every game is written like a one-off with its own self contained story.
Even the the old Zelda series OT is dead. More people argue about their favorites with hyperbolic statements and criticisms which kill that stuff (see Egoraptor's OoT video).
EDIT: Also Zelda/Sheik is only in one game. That one Zelda doesn't mean every Zelda can fight. Of course you can write a new one and have a completely different premise. Every game is written like a one-off with its own self contained story.
KingJ2002
Member
where did you get that from in my post???
Great post. I feel the same way... but the way you put it is far more eloquent lol.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
The same changes as would be acceptable in any static character when an art style changes. Hair length, age, and the details of his outfit are all free reign. He'll always be recognizable though. Like Paper Mario is still clearly Mario even though he looks significantly different artistically.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But here's the thing, would female Link not be identifiable as Link? White, blue eyes, blonde hair, green tunic...
I'm not even too against Zelda having her own game. But it feels like that's the only option for some when there's far more loop holes and things that can be done. It's dumb and selfish tbh to only think that there is only one way.
In this thread alone we talked about Zelda and/or Sheik as a protag, Link being sexually ambiguous like Zelda U but with a male and female voice option, choosing male or female Link, a game entirely written around a female Link like all previous games for male Link, and lastly character creators.
All entirely possible with how self contained each entry is and all the loop holes around reincarnation and the 2 other timelines not even being related to the spirit of the hero or their bloodline. The 2 other timelines are random children in a green tunic.
In this thread alone we talked about Zelda and/or Sheik as a protag, Link being sexually ambiguous like Zelda U but with a male and female voice option, choosing male or female Link, a game entirely written around a female Link like all previous games for male Link, and lastly character creators.
All entirely possible with how self contained each entry is and all the loop holes around reincarnation and the 2 other timelines not even being related to the spirit of the hero or their bloodline. The 2 other timelines are random children in a green tunic.
SilverArrow20XX
Walks in the Light of the Crystal
Yes, but as I said before, the fact that being male has also been one of his characteristics for a dozen incarnations with no deviance, shows an in game pattern. The possibilities of physical appearance are enormous. If his reincarnation were not bound with some law of familiarity, then the odds of any reincarnation being the same are very low. Like the Avatar, who always looks radically different. This is not the case though.
If there had only been one incarnation before now and we knew he was being reincarnated for the new game it would be a completely different story. Changing him now though is asking us to accept that it's been a coincidence so far, which to me is just terrible writing.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Pretty indifferent really.
Although making Zelda the lead is much better, in my opinion. Changing Link's gender wouldn't do anything in terms of lore, gameplay, etc etc--Link would still have to go to that water temple and using the hookshot but now only as a she. Wouldn't it be more intriguing if Zelda the princess turns out to be the lead character? It would force Nintendo to think up of new ways for their Zelda games in terms of not only gameplay, but also story, game progression, etc etc.
Although making Zelda the lead is much better, in my opinion. Changing Link's gender wouldn't do anything in terms of lore, gameplay, etc etc--Link would still have to go to that water temple and using the hookshot but now only as a she. Wouldn't it be more intriguing if Zelda the princess turns out to be the lead character? It would force Nintendo to think up of new ways for their Zelda games in terms of not only gameplay, but also story, game progression, etc etc.
I would be fine with a female Link, but only if they had a reason to go with it.
If they just threw in a female Link for no reason, I guess I would find that unnecessary and a bit weird. Linkle kinda felt forced in that regard, in addition to her not really being a Link anyway.
If they just wanted to throw one in for no reason, I think just making it an option would be the best way of handling it. If they have a reason to do it, then sure, force it on everyone.
As others have said, I would prefer they used Zelda if they wanted to go with a female character, but I do see why some people would prefer it be Link. I guess there isn't really a way of pleasing everyone on this one.
If they just threw in a female Link for no reason, I guess I would find that unnecessary and a bit weird. Linkle kinda felt forced in that regard, in addition to her not really being a Link anyway.
If they just wanted to throw one in for no reason, I think just making it an option would be the best way of handling it. If they have a reason to do it, then sure, force it on everyone.
As others have said, I would prefer they used Zelda if they wanted to go with a female character, but I do see why some people would prefer it be Link. I guess there isn't really a way of pleasing everyone on this one.
We know these games. We know the lore. We know Link and Zelda are not the same in each reincarnation. We know who Link and Zelda are.
A LOT of people don't.
What I'm trying to say is that is not really that easy to change a MAIN CHARACTER from a big franchise such as TLoZ "just because". Think of all the casual players and what their reaction might be. (And in my opinion it'd be something like "wasn't he a dude before? wtvrlol" and they'd continue to play the game)
Link is an ICON.
And so are Mario, Zelda, Peach, Samus, Lara Croft, Chell, Master Chief, etc...
Should we just change their gender just because? (The reincarnation
"excuse" doesn't work with the general public)
I want to express myself correctly and what I really wanna say is... look...
I love the Tomb Raider and Metroid games and at no point I feel like "Only women can do that/I wish I was a woman/I hope the main character is a guy next time" etc...
After all I AM the one who's playing and doing that awesome stuff!
I don't play Metroid and think of Samus as a woman, or play a Mario game and think of him as a man. They're characters in a fictional universe.
I think "wanting" Link to be a girl is a very selfish thing to ask... MAYBE a bit more selfish than asking for him to stay the same?
And by the way, even if I want him to stay male I could care less if Link's a female, toon, animal, robot or whatever in the future. I just want to play the games!
I hope you guys and gals can see what I mean and understand my point of view.
A LOT of people don't.
What I'm trying to say is that is not really that easy to change a MAIN CHARACTER from a big franchise such as TLoZ "just because". Think of all the casual players and what their reaction might be. (And in my opinion it'd be something like "wasn't he a dude before? wtvrlol" and they'd continue to play the game)
Link is an ICON.
And so are Mario, Zelda, Peach, Samus, Lara Croft, Chell, Master Chief, etc...
Should we just change their gender just because? (The reincarnation
"excuse" doesn't work with the general public)
I want to express myself correctly and what I really wanna say is... look...
I love the Tomb Raider and Metroid games and at no point I feel like "Only women can do that/I wish I was a woman/I hope the main character is a guy next time" etc...
After all I AM the one who's playing and doing that awesome stuff!
I don't play Metroid and think of Samus as a woman, or play a Mario game and think of him as a man. They're characters in a fictional universe.
I think "wanting" Link to be a girl is a very selfish thing to ask... MAYBE a bit more selfish than asking for him to stay the same?
And by the way, even if I want him to stay male I could care less if Link's a female, toon, animal, robot or whatever in the future. I just want to play the games!
I hope you guys and gals can see what I mean and understand my point of view.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Oh wow, videogames are serious business. You surely got him good there.
A Link to the Past
Banned
People don't know the lore, so people won't care about the plot reasons why Link "has" to be a guy
royox
Member
Ganon could unseal himself anytime, then you need at least 9 months to make a new Link and 10-12 years to make him ""able"" to wield a sword and fight Ganon. The goddessess had no time to unleash the green hero so they said "fuck it" and flooded hyrule.
Not really. I just used an intentionally over-the-top analogy to illustrate a point. I'm just trying to show that "it's always been that way in the past" is not an effective argument.
They kinda make a lot of Zelda games. One game with a female protagonist and another with a male protagonist is still possible imo. there are two Zelda new games on 3DS along with 2 remakes and all feature the Link we all know in 3 different incarnations. Plus you have their home console which will also get its fair share of Zelda games.
I don't think there might be too much confusion among kids, especialy with male Link front and center everywhere.
I know the lore (*ﾟ▽ﾟ
ﾉI've actually talked in lengths before about the lore before and have pointed out loop holes where things are possible from a lore perspective. There are plenty of vague areas and how Nintendo also makes a vague lore in the opening of each game just to give it some kind of background. Good writing can work with these areas and implement a new character, a female alt, or make a different character the lead character.
MisterHero
Super Member
ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN with good writing. It would just be super fucking boring because anything could adapt to be just like another well-recieved work.
It might blow minds that you can write good stories for games with playable female protagonists. Tonight's episode of The Walking Dead was driven by female characters. But no, some people are more preoccupied with repurposing a male character.
The agency comes from making a character playable, not from taking the spot of another character that became famous over the years.
In my honest opinion, the people who want Link to be female aren't actually interested in elevating females.
It might blow minds that you can write good stories for games with playable female protagonists. Tonight's episode of The Walking Dead was driven by female characters. But no, some people are more preoccupied with repurposing a male character.
The agency comes from making a character playable, not from taking the spot of another character that became famous over the years.
In my honest opinion, the people who want Link to be female aren't actually interested in elevating females.
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even more wind waker fap, im loving it
Also, as long as you allow gender swapping, but don't do anything stupid with the name to clearly alienate the female version (like default her to Linkle or something stupid), I see no reason why Link couldn't be genderfluid. The male link will likely still be the staple image for the character, but you have to be fair -- Link has always been a male character, and unless you were born the very year Female Link made her debut, anyone someone references the character, the image of "LINK" in your head right now is the one they're going to be seeing.
Again, minus the example of that Zora Princess getting all w...splashy for you, finding gender exclusive moments in any given Zelda title will be a chore for you.
Hahaha
1) I'm not stretching this. People were legitimately thinking his Hyrule Warriors incarnation was female.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=836231
And it happened again with WiiU Link. To the point Nintendo had to comment on it. If that isn't sexually ambiguous to you, then I dont know what to say.
2) My implication was that any argument that says Link only works as a male is a stupid argument, because there is nothing Link does that is mutually exclusive to his sex. He is clearly and deliberately designed to be a blank slate for the player to project. So at this point your only REAL argument is that you don't want to play a female Link because you're not female....which is an argument that's completely fair to make, but doesn't really give you any high ground.
As for all that other crap about how he cant "feasibly be anything other than what he is":
So, assuming the player happens to be female, where is your "logical" argument against being able to choose a female link?
Zenlightened
Banned
Give me my sword and my shield, my bombs, my arrows, my boomerang and hookshot. Give me fairies, and moblins and the triforce, and ganon.
Give me dungeons and music and hyrule's tall grass full of money.
Give me that, Nintendo, and you can make Link any flavor you want.
Give me dungeons and music and hyrule's tall grass full of money.
Give me that, Nintendo, and you can make Link any flavor you want.
Link's Awakening and Wind Waker were both breaths of fresh air that didn't involve a gender swap.