Same could be said for Vista. It was a huge improvement over XP, but early driver troubles and MS/OEMs stupidly installing it onto PCs that couldn't handle it made it seem like an abomination. Windows 8 had no real driver troubles to speak of but changed one thing on top of many improvements and people flipped out. This is the right direction, and people are slowly coming around. The blind hate train really forces peoples hand though, it's pathetic.
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Same could be said for Vista. It was a huge improvement over XP, but early driver troubles and MS/OEMs stupidly installing it onto PCs that couldn't handle it made it seem like an abomination. Windows 8 had no real driver troubles to speak of but changed one thing on top of many improvements and people flipped out. This is the right direction, and people are slowly coming around. The blind hate train really forces peoples hand though, it's pathetic.
methane47
Member
But ... the experience isn't consistent though.
On PC its a disjointed mess.. and by most accounts of people who enjoy Windows 8... They dont even USE metro..
And on PC and tablet... They Dont use Desktop mode. They ONLY use Metro for the most part.
So this line of thinking is either purposefully disingenuous or its woefully misled.
Bolded for emphasis.
The point is, the choice is there and you can do whatever you want on any device you want and it's consistent across devices. Your generalizing that everybody does what you do. I can comprehend that some people may want to do other things and bridging the gap was entirely necessary. Your ignorance is amazing.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Wait, Windows still takes 10 seconds to wake from sleep? Maybe I'm just spoiled by my Mac, and every Mac since 2000, but OS X wakes from sleep in 0-2 seconds (Usually completely instant) and has for the past 14 years. They made it a bullet point on the Titanium PowerBooks back in 2001. Are they saying Microsoft has not sped this up at all in the past 3 versions of Windows? Or is that graph just completely terrible?
Hari Seldon
Member
The entire purpose of metro is to leverage the desktop market in order to sell phones via making the Windows app store highly attractive. It is entirely a money man decision and not some usability concern. They went negative on usability in order to sacrifice for their phone division.
Agreed.
It's not that people aren't allowed to dislike Windows 8. But the hatred has definitely become a meme at this point, and not backed up by any major deficiencies on the part of the OS.
Vista was a step in the right direction, but it was still plagued with very real problems.
Windows 8 is a more streamlined, capable version of Windows 7 in almost every way. But because of Metro and "B-b-but I thought you couldn't search?" It's being hailed as the worst entry to the Windows line ever? lol
That's a massive understatement.
The "one thing" they changed was the entire user-facing aspect of it.
rokkerkory
Member
people hate change, especially when MS can't really give us THE reason to change
This is one of the best comments I have ever seen on the Internet.
I think 8 could have done a lot better if they just didn't force metro by default. Every other version has had the option to turn on a 'classic' menu, but not 8.
I also think 9 will end up selling pretty well. It's got a good base with 8's backend, and if they return to the classic desktop as rumoured, as well as good integration with Office 365/workshare, and I think it won't be long before Enterprise would roll it out. In my experience 365 is getting rolled out at a much quicker pace than I expected.
I also think 9 will end up selling pretty well. It's got a good base with 8's backend, and if they return to the classic desktop as rumoured, as well as good integration with Office 365/workshare, and I think it won't be long before Enterprise would roll it out. In my experience 365 is getting rolled out at a much quicker pace than I expected.
It is only one real change. I use Windows 8 exactly like I used Windows 7. A desktop with a start menu that I use to pin applications that I don't have pinned to my taskbar. The start menu happens to be full screen and has added functionality. Why is it such a big issue?
balladofwindfishes
Member
An operating system is just that, a system for the operator of the underlying computer. GUI changes are probably the most important changes an OS makes, and the most influential to users when selecting an OS. If it wasn't Dell wouldn't be forced to offer Windows 7 based on demand.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I love Windows 8, I just hate how you can't use Metro IE unless it's your default browser. It's bullshit.
The hate for W8 is so exaggerated. The hate is almost pure hivemind/sheep mentality. There are probably some legit criticisms but W7 is inferior through and through. The main difference between the two is metro, which can be turned off/ignored.
The hate for W8 is so exaggerated. The hate is almost pure hivemind/sheep mentality. There are probably some legit criticisms but W7 is inferior through and through. The main difference between the two is metro, which can be turned off/ignored.
What is your use case? I have Metro IE and Desktop IE pinned side by side on my start screen. You can also right click a tab and select "open in immersive browser" to open a webpage in the metro IE.
Why would you do that?
Member
Windows 8 has some really annoying UI elements, and I hope that Microsoft learns and makes the next one less reliant on a touch screen, or at least more intuitive. I bought a W8 laptop a few days ago, and had to search on the Internet to learn how to do quite a few simple things, like closing a Metro app.
That said, besides the UI, it is the better OS in many big and small ways. Plus, once you get used to the UI, it isn't too bad, especially if you have a touch screen like I do, or you install something like Classic Shell (though I haven't for the sake of learning). If anything, it makes me more excited for Windows 9, because it may have all the improvements of 8 with a more "normal" interface like 7.
Ah, I was wondering why I couldn't open up Metro IE. Thanks for that. I will also look into doing what Hilbert above me said.
That said, besides the UI, it is the better OS in many big and small ways. Plus, once you get used to the UI, it isn't too bad, especially if you have a touch screen like I do, or you install something like Classic Shell (though I haven't for the sake of learning). If anything, it makes me more excited for Windows 9, because it may have all the improvements of 8 with a more "normal" interface like 7.
Ah, I was wondering why I couldn't open up Metro IE. Thanks for that. I will also look into doing what Hilbert above me said.
This mindset, if always propagated, would have us still using XP because the majority is ignorant and afraid of change. Thankfully that is not the case and MS is smart enough to keep their vision going. Those who can comprehend the benefits will eventually outweigh the ignorant few that cling to the past.
Davis_McGee
Member
"HP"
"Popular demand"
Pick one. Consumer sales fell 30% year-on-year and business sales fell 15%.
"Popular demand"
Pick one. Consumer sales fell 30% year-on-year and business sales fell 15%.
I still don't know why MS doesn't have a built in tutorial to explain things like closing a metro app or shut down settings. I face palmed whenever I saw their "tutorial" in Windows 8 that just showed the mouse moving into the upper right hand corner. Absolutely useless, MS.
Mammoth Jones
Member
So they created a device that the tech pundits didn't think was viable and showed...that it was...and that's Apple marketing and nothing else?
I'll never understand the irrational Apple hate. They made a product people want to buy. If you want to argue that's all marketing and no substance at all that just comes across as salty grapes.
Windows does not take 10s to wake from sleep.
NullPointer
Member
What little I've seen of Windows 8 seemed backwards. I don't need or want a touch centered interface on my non-touch PC. I don't want apps or charm bars, I want programs that run in regular windows that I lay out and control.
I set up a new PC for my mother over the holidays and just about everything about Windows 8 was counter-intuitive and made things more difficult for her. She basically had to ignore every Windows 8 feature.
I set up a new PC for my mother over the holidays and just about everything about Windows 8 was counter-intuitive and made things more difficult for her. She basically had to ignore every Windows 8 feature.
Nah. The well was poisoned beyond saving right out of the gate.
Win 8 was never going to recover from that early onslaught of people who didn't like it.
I didn't care for 8 at all, but I love 8.1 and could not go back to 7 at this point.
Schrade
Member
I wonder how much of that is due to only being able to buy computers with Windows 8 on them...?
But we have seen that is 100% what it is. Misguided hate and ignorance to the product.
Davis_McGee
Member
None whatsoever. HP have never stopped shipping Win7 PCs*. HP's sales are collapsing because HP kit is fucking shite and HP's support is even worse. Dell and Lenovo both have the same licensing situation and neither of them are in such dire straits.
And I proudly speak as an ex-HP employee on that one.
*In fact for a long time what they'd do is ship "Win 8 PCs" with Win 7 installed and a Win 8 upgrade code (win 8 licenses are generally valid for win 7). Sounds great, right? HP will only support the operating system that ships with the machine. The second you upgraded to win8 you voided your warranty.
I really, really mean it when I say their support is terrible.
Yay for absolute statements with no data behind them.
Obviously you are the unbiased authority.
balladofwindfishes
Member
You're ignoring that the GUI was not the reason people didn't like Vista. They fixed the technical issues, rebranded it, and it worked out fine because the GUI design was fine. People seemed fine to change once those technical issues were ironed out, because the fundamental usability of Vista was better than XP for most people so 7 was a worthy product.
When GUIs are better, people naturally go to them. Look at the mouse, a massive improvement to computers that had its detractors, but was otherwise adopted by all because it was such a well made improvement. And before you say "touch is just like the mouse!" it's not. Touch gives the user less accuracy and requires more effort to do simple tasks the mouse can already do. It's advantage is that it works best on small, handheld devices that can't have additional control systems. It's a compromise for devices that can't have other input devices.
crazygambit
Member
Given the amount of time you spend booting your computer vs the time you spend actually using the OS, it really is pretty much irrelevant. Nice to have, sure, but not worth putting up with Metro on a desktop.
Do you remember the clusterfuck that happened when the mouse was introduced? People were outraged, the same misguided hate that Windows 8 is getting because most people don't like change. Windows 8 is an all around improved Windows 7 that took the start menu that had become nearly useless with Windows 7 and made something halfway useful out of it and used it to bridge the gap between all personal computing devices.
Davis_McGee
Member
It's not really irrelevant. Between fast hybrid boot and s0ix you can cut a platform's power use by anywhere up to about 90%. That is a big deal.
Also, you don't have to use Metro if you don't want to. Takes all of about three seconds to turn off.
The logic that minor to moderate performances increases and new none-obvious functions/shortcuts > usability for the average end-user for a OS is baffling.
Right, there are no legitimate complaints. I'm a software developer at a company with 3500 employees. We all learn new technologies and our motto is being a catalyst for change for the rest of the organization. Everyone blows their cash on new tech because we love change and learning new technologies. We are also mostly a Microsoft shop and use a lot of their tools. I actually liked vista when it came out. But I'm sure it's all just blind irrational hate and stupidity.
But Metro isn't something that has to be put up with any moreso than the Start button/menu had to be put up with in Windows 7 unless you want to. You are also taking one minor improvement, boot up times, and running with it saying that 8 isn't much better than 7 when you are ignoring all the other aspects that have been improved and streamlined.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I had 7 for years until I just got 8.1 last fall. I never used the Start menu. Certainly not for launching apps, if anything to find something obscure every once in a while.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
It's worse.
Good. Dell still let's customers install 7 on new PC builds instead of 8. Windows has turned into the Star Trek franchise. Good film, bad film. Good OS (Win XP, probably the best OS ever made), bad OS (Win Vista), good OS (Win 7), bad OS (Win 8). Let's hope the next one is a return to form.
Davis_McGee
Member
not likely - those win7 PCs are all sporting win8 pro licenses. more to the point HP's sales are going down faster than a hooker round the docks on payday.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If you have to seriously sell something by saying you can ignore or remove pretty much the largest feature of the product, you have a poor product on your hands.
Escape Goat
Member
All my posts have been devoid of hate. On the contrary, its Apples vision that's to be commended. You're misunderstanding my point entirely. I said nothing about tablets being unviable, I said Apple created a product before the public knew they wanted or needed it. It was innovation coupled with good marketing that kick started the tablet market. Computer said business sell what consumers want to buy. I said unless you're Apple and know their wants before they do.
Davis_McGee
Member
i'm not trying to seriously sell anything - i'm calling your criticism of the product a little bit dim
Yes, it was a button for a quick search which was inferior to the search in file exploer and had pinned/most used apps that aren't on the taskbar. Not some useful godly item like some people are making it out to be. Think of the start screen like your desk drawer and the desktop is, well, your desktop. Nearly everything goes on above the desk and you use the drawer a couple times throughout the day. Does that make it easier to understand?
la flama blanca
Banned
I modified my win 8 and got used to it, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it for the general public.
Davis_McGee
Member
Except for most people it's the other way round. I can't remember the last time I even saw my desktop, let alone used it. I've used start search to launch everything since vista was released.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Er..exactly.. and Metro is an always ready start menu hiding the fuckin pointless desktop.
Then you use the start screen the exact same way you use the start menu in Windows 7. The basic functionality is the same in both versions.
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