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Huge Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch Retcon in Axis #7 (SPOILERS)

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To be fair, Remender has been moving from awesome to Millar territory at an alarming pace.

His Uncanny X-Force is amazing. Uncanny Avengers was pretty good for some time. Axis has managed to be dumber than Avengers vs X-Men.
 
COMIXXXXXX

Marvel knows they're going to have to repeal this eventually, right? Killing or neglecting a character is one thing, but this?

COMIXXXXXX
 
her abilities were always very poorly defined and hard to understand. sometimes it was magic, sometimes it wasn't, someone introduced chaos magic, someone else took it away.

it's one of those things that snowballed over time and STILL doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I haven't read Marvel for a long while, but I definitely remember the inconsistency with Wanda. The one I remember most is from the Onslaught Saga.

At the end, when they break open his armor, and need to find new vessels to contain his essence, she leaps in to sacrifice herself with the first round of Avengers. Only a couple panels later when some of the X-Men try to do the same, they're stopped and told 'any mutants going in there would re-power Onslaught. Oh yeah, Scarlet Witch's special hex powers protected her against that, but you guys can't go', thus making her the only mutant who had to be brought back in the whole Heroes Reborn/Heroes Return saga.
 
To be fair, Remender has been moving from awesome to Millar territory at an alarming pace.

His Uncanny X-Force is amazing. Uncanny Avengers was pretty good for some time. Axis has managed to be dumber than Avengers vs X-Men.

AvX had its moments though. Not really finding much enjoyment in Axis.
 
To be fair, Remender has been moving from awesome to Millar territory at an alarming pace.

His Uncanny X-Force is amazing. Uncanny Avengers was pretty good for some time. Axis has managed to be dumber than Avengers vs X-Men.

He is currently doing amazing work at Image. Maybe he just doesnt give a shit about this crossover like everyone else.
 
It's all some long game to strike at Fox.

The whole theory makes no sense unless your underlying assumption is that marvel is doing sneaky things in the books to fuck over Fox...which as a theory has so many holes in it it's bewildering it keeps cropping up. But like a hydra every other month someone proposes a grand conspiracy theory and it starts all over again.

Making pietro and Wanda non mutants causes all kinds of problems in some pretty high profile storylines. Marvels current fan base has largely grown up with these characters, so shitting on their backstory because "fuck Fox" does nothing but upset the base. Fox gets to use them no matter what, because contracts are a thing.

Does marvel sometimes change things in the comics to reflect what's going on in film? Sure. Spidey getting organic web shooters comes to mind here. But those changes when they happen are rarely permanent (again, see spidey) and this isn't 2002 anymore. Marvel doesn't usually see sustained increases in readership from the movies, and they've learned to let the books be their own thing, taking inspiration where appropriate.

Case in point: winter soldier was a colossal success, pulling in around 700 million at the box office. Thor 2 wasn't far behind it and Avengers 2 is going to be huge.

This of course means it's a perfect time to turn Steve Rogers into an octegenarian and retire, make captain America a black guy, and turn Thor into a woman.

MCU=/=MU.

I'm curious where the storyline goes, but it definitely won't be "pietro and Wanda are now inhumans! Fox has to rewrite all scripts!"
 
AvX had its moments though. Not really finding much enjoyment in Axis.
That's what I had in mind. AvX has a terrible premise and mostly sucks but some parts can stand on their own. After 7 issues of Axis, I haven't run into anything salvageable.

He is currently doing amazing work at Image. Maybe he just doesnt give a shit about this crossover like everyone else.
Yeah, I'm still thoroughly enjoying Black Science and Deadly Class.
 
Shout out to the original Omega Plus

Vulcan_442x300.jpg

147713-7966-mr-m.jpg

Let's never mention Vulcan again, please.
 
To be fair, Remender has been moving from awesome to Millar territory at an alarming pace.

His Uncanny X-Force is amazing. Uncanny Avengers was pretty good for some time. Axis has managed to be dumber than Avengers vs X-Men.

Axis is meh for the most part because it was supposed to be an Uncanny Avengers-only event which got repurposed into a wider event.
 
To be fair, Daddy Magneto was a retcon in itself. But this shit happens all the time, it's just a fact of comic book life. I know I posted this video already, but it explains the situation pretty well in terms of both Marvel & DC.

Yeah, the stuff about changing a character's appearance and introducing supporting characters and characterisations from an adaptations is common stuff. But this feels really different to me. There's something special about this one because it isn't about leaning into a popular adaptation, it reeks of trying to screw over FOX more than reflecting the MCU's direction.

QS and especially SW have closer ties to the Avengers that to Mutantdom, it would have just been easier and less vindictive to ignore their parentage than nullify it. this just becomes a new mess to undo if/when Marvel gets film right for X-men back and want to leverage this link. I don't know how Wolverine died, but I can't image it's messier than this when his healing factor was remover for like a year in preparation.
 
QS and especially SW have closer ties to the Avengers that to Mutantdom, it would have just been easier and less vindictive to ignore their parentage than nullify it. this just becomes a new mess to undo if/when Marvel gets film right for X-men back and want to leverage this link. I don't know how Wolverine died, but I can't image it's messier than this when his healing factor was remover for like a year in preparation.

For, like, the fourth time in this topic, 616 is not MCU. They don't need to fix shit.
 
For, like, the fourth time in this topic, 616 is not MCU. They don't need to fix shit.
Can you read? I didn't say they were the same. I'm saying that this X-Embargo likely won't last forever. If and when Marvel get the Film rights to mutants back (or at the very least, merchandise rights) and sudenly want to link them to their successful franchises again, undoing this is going to be an unnecessary hassle.

Explain it to me.

Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch already have much stronger ties to the Avengers than to Magneto and the wider mutant universe. It would have been easier to simply downplay their X-genes in the comics while the Films do their own thing. The MCU doesn't need to get explicit with the Wonder Twins' origins, nor does the 616 need to emancipate them. Silence would have been a much more elegant way of achieving the same end.
 
We do have the "No More Mutants" teaser featuring Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver for the first Uncanny Avengers story after Axis. We don't know what's the about yet though, but people saying that there's nothing yet at all are ignoring a blatant sign right in front of them.

Oh, there's definitely some basis for this speculation. But while Rich Johnston may think it's okay to make up an "announcement" at NYCC that never happened, it's still just speculation for now.
 
Yeah, the stuff about changing a character's appearance and introducing supporting characters and characterisations from an adaptations is common stuff. But this feels really different to me. There's something special about this one because it isn't about leaning into a popular adaptation, it reeks of trying to screw over FOX more than reflecting the MCU's direction.

QS and especially SW have closer ties to the Avengers that to Mutantdom, it would have just been easier and less vindictive to ignore their parentage than nullify it. this just becomes a new mess to undo if/when Marvel gets film right for X-men back and want to leverage this link. I don't know how Wolverine died, but I can't image it's messier than this when his healing factor was remover for like a year in preparation.

It doesn't really screw over Fox, though. They still have the rights to the twins, and any other characters to whom the lawyers have determined they have the rights, regardless of what Marvel does in 616.

It does, however, make them closer to their MCU counterparts, simply by removing their main connection to the X-Men franchise from the picture. Whether that also entails making then Inhumans or another type of non-mutants remains to be seen.
 
Yeah, I know. That's why it feels so petty.

how though? the movies havent shown that max is pietros father, so noones getting screwed as of yet. this is comics being comics, with people trying to find things to add to the fire of marvel screwing fox. and with the blacklist rumors being just that, it feel like this is the only branch they have
 
Can you read? I didn't say they were the same. I'm saying that this X-Embargo likely won't last forever. If and when Marvel get the Film rights to mutants back (or at the very least, merchandise rights) and sudenly want to link them to their successful franchises again, undoing this is going to be an unnecessary hassle.

There is no x-embargo. There is no need to undo anything. You're doing asspull after asspull. As has been explained numerous times in this very thread.

how though? the movies havent shown that max is pietros father, so noones getting screwed as of yet. this is comics being comics, with people trying to find things to add to the fire of marvel screwing fox. and with the blacklist rumors being just that, it feel like this is the only branch they have

Moon logic.
 
how though? the movies havent shown that max is pietros father, so noones getting screwed as of yet. this is comics being comics, with people trying to find things to add to the fire of marvel screwing fox. and with the blacklist rumors being just that, it feel like this is the only branch they have

Xmen: DOFP heavily implied it.

the rest of your post I agree with though.
 
The whole theory makes no sense unless your underlying assumption is that marvel is doing sneaky things in the books to fuck over Fox...which as a theory has so many holes in it it's bewildering it keeps cropping up. But like a hydra every other month someone proposes a grand conspiracy theory and it starts all over again.

Making pietro and Wanda non mutants causes all kinds of problems in some pretty high profile storylines. Marvels current fan base has largely grown up with these characters, so shitting on their backstory because "fuck Fox" does nothing but upset the base. Fox gets to use them no matter what, because contracts are a thing.

Does marvel sometimes change things in the comics to reflect what's going on in film? Sure. Spidey getting organic web shooters comes to mind here. But those changes when they happen are rarely permanent (again, see spidey) and this isn't 2002 anymore. Marvel doesn't usually see sustained increases in readership from the movies, and they've learned to let the books be their own thing, taking inspiration where appropriate.

Case in point: winter soldier was a colossal success, pulling in around 700 million at the box office. Thor 2 wasn't far behind it and Avengers 2 is going to be huge.

This of course means it's a perfect time to turn Steve Rogers into an octegenarian and retire, make captain America a black guy, and turn Thor into a woman.

MCU=/=MU.

I'm curious where the storyline goes, but it definitely won't be "pietro and Wanda are now inhumans! Fox has to rewrite all scripts!"
It falls apart when you actually read comics. Ain't nobody watching the movies rushing out to buy the comics, and just because they put in a comic doesn't mean it will nullify any contracts. All that is why the theory is laughable. Marvel would have to be Purple Man level pity to be plotting like that.

Let's never mention Vulcan again, please.

He was a great fucked up for just being fucked up character.
 
It falls apart when you actually read comics. Ain't nobody watching the movies rushing out to buy the comics, and just because they put in a comic doesn't mean it will nullify any contracts. All that is why the theory is laughable. Marvel would have to be Purple Man level pity to be plotting like that.



He was a great fucked up for just being fucked up character.

ding ding ding.

edit: it's worth noting that making wanda and pietro "not magneto's kids" does absolutely nothing to disentangle those two from X-men land. Wanda being the sole person responsible for devastating the mutant population from millions down to a couple hundred is something that's never going to be "glossed over" even if that was eventually somewhat repaired by the phoenix.
 
I think all the "omg Marvel is using comics to screw with Fox/Sony/whatever!" reactions are in themselves clear indication of why the theories hold no water. The reactions are all from people who don't read any of the comics and are only familiar with the works in question from either watching the movies or following news headlines reporting on the movies. So the perception is that anything that happens in the comics must be a reaction to what little they know about the franchise - ie: the movie rights, or whatever is going on in the movies, etc.

I think that says enough about how much reach the comics actually have these days compared to the films. :P
 
There is no x-embargo. There is no need to undo anything. You're doing asspull after asspull. As has been explained numerous times in this very thread.

Embargo may not the right term, but the lack of X-men merch aimed at children compared to Spider-Man stuff on the market look like neglect to me. I'm pretty sure Marvel currently own the animation rights to the X-Men, since Wolverine and the X-Men is listed as a Marvel Studios production on Wikipedia. But the last thing animation-wise was the anime, almost four years ago. That doesn't sound long, but again, compared to Spider-Man...

"But Wiseblade, Spider-Man is just a bigger property than the X-Men!"

Yes, but First Class and Days of Future Past performed well in cinemas and it feels off that there isn't a toyline to exploit that and a cartoon to ride the coattails.

I know that nothing I've said is individually damning that marvel is conspiring to ruin the x-men to spite FOX, but the property is definitely underutilised on their end.
 
I think all the "omg Marvel is using comics to screw with Fox/Sony/whatever!" reactions are in themselves clear indication of why the theories hold no water. The reactions are all from people who don't read any of the comics and are only familiar with the works in question from either watching the movies or following news headlines reporting on the movies. So the perception is that anything that happens in the comics must be a reaction to what little they know about the franchise - ie: the movie rights, or whatever is going on in the movies, etc.

I think that says enough about how much reach the comics actually have these days compared to the films. :P

Counterpoint: Nick Fury's son is literally referred to by everyone as Nick Fury for no reason and the original Nick is now a weird ghost thing living on the moon.
 
I think all the "omg Marvel is using comics to screw with Fox/Sony/whatever!" reactions are in themselves clear indication of why the theories hold no water. The reactions are all from people who don't read any of the comics and are only familiar with the works in question from either watching the movies or following news headlines reporting on the movies. So the perception is that anything that happens in the comics must be a reaction to what little they know about the franchise - ie: the movie rights, or whatever is going on in the movies, etc.

I think that says enough about how much reach the comics actually have these days compared to the films. :P

of course. the reach of the films is so much farther than the books it's insane to imply otherwise. This has been true going all the way back to Batman '66.

However, marvel (and DC, I suppose) realize by now that the books are the cornerstone of the business, and what gets greenlit to a large extent has a lot to do with what storylines and characters resonate with the fanbase. Hollywood hates risk, and loves proven properties with a built in audience. What can be more proven than characters that have been selling books and merchandise consistently since the 1960s to all ages?

We've seen BP and Captain Marvel recently announced, and a lot of that has to do with the fans of the books evangelizing and lobbying hard for those properties to hit the screen. They may not sell hundreds of thousands of copies, but those fans are passionate and vocal, and studios pay attention to such things.

and finally, I've said this before- Marvel isn't stupid. we're in a boom but booms don't last forever. Eventually people will get tired of superhero films- at least for a while and the billion dollar blockbuster films will run out of steam.

When (not if) that happens, the foundation of the business will still be there as it has for decades, pushing consistent numbers and keeping the property fresh and viable. What happens when you DONT keep properties fresh and viable? then you get properties like Popeye, Mighty Mouse, the Flintstones, etc that were once extremely bankable but now very, very difficult to get going again. Marvel and DC are experts at not letting this happen to cash cow characters, and keeping the base happy (even if it's smaller) is a big part of that.
 
I think all the "omg Marvel is using comics to screw with Fox/Sony/whatever!" reactions are in themselves clear indication of why the theories hold no water. The reactions are all from people who don't read any of the comics and are only familiar with the works in question from either watching the movies or following news headlines reporting on the movies. So the perception is that anything that happens in the comics must be a reaction to what little they know about the franchise - ie: the movie rights, or whatever is going on in the movies, etc.

I think that says enough about how much reach the comics actually have these days compared to the films. :P
Bravo
 
Counterpoint: Nick Fury's son is literally referred to by everyone as Nick Fury for no reason and the original Nick is now a weird ghost thing living on the moon.

nick is a bad counterpoint to use, because the O.G. nick fury wasn't popular at all. I don't think he's had an ongoing series of his own since a 47 issue series that ended in 1993, and he wasn't a regular member of any teams for longer than a miniseries here or there. You might get a cameo now and then, but the character simply isn't relevant.

On top of that, nick fury is one of the few character's whose origin is extremely difficult to reconcile the longer he's around. He's inextricably tied to WW2, but without the benefit of hanging out in suspended animation like captain america. Marvel time says the fantastic four and the Xmen first showed up in the early to mid 1990s. Nick was canonically fighting supervillains and shit in the 1960s and 1970s like James Bond when current marvel says there weren't any. This is a problem.

The "ultimate" version of nick fury however was the exact opposite. extremely popular, resonated with fans, and a central part of one of marvel's most critically acclaimed titles at the time. Replacing O.G. nick with a version of the one people actually like was going to happen eventually even if the movies had never happened.
 
Embargo may not the right term, but the lack of X-men merch aimed at children compared to Spider-Man stuff on the market look like neglect to me. I'm pretty sure Marvel currently own the animation rights to the X-Men, since Wolverine and the X-Men is listed as a Marvel Studios production on Wikipedia. But the last thing animation-wise was the anime, almost four years ago. That doesn't sound long, but again, compared to Spider-Man...

"But Wiseblade, Spider-Man is just a bigger property than the X-Men!"

Yes, but First Class and Days of Future Past performed well in cinemas and it feels off that there isn't a toyline to exploit that and a cartoon to ride the coattails.

I know that nothing I've said is individually damning that marvel is conspiring to ruin the x-men to spite FOX, but the property is definitely underutilised on their end.
Comic-wise the mutants are fine. As far as merchandise goes, there's nothing beyond TRU exclusives & the occasional shirt & Funko Pop figure. Tom Brevoort also confirmed that there will be no X-Men cartoon in the foreseeable future due to a cartoon on Spider-Man & properties they hold the movie rights to is more profitable & worth their time. That's why the GotG cartoon is being fast-tracked for next year.
 
nick is a bad counterpoint to use, because the O.G. nick fury wasn't popular at all. I don't think he's had an ongoing series of his own since a 47 issue series that ended in 1993, and he wasn't a regular member of any teams for longer than a miniseries here or there. You might get a cameo now and then, but the character simply isn't relevant.

On top of that, nick fury is one of the few character's whose origin is extremely difficult to reconcile the longer he's around. He's inextricably tied to WW2, but without the benefit of hanging out in suspended animation like captain america. Marvel time says the fantastic four and the Xmen first showed up in the early to mid 1990s. Nick was canonically fighting supervillains and shit in the 1960s and 1970s like James Bond when current marvel says there weren't any. This is a problem.

The "ultimate" version of nick fury however was the exact opposite. extremely popular, resonated with fans, and a central part of one of marvel's most critically acclaimed titles at the time. Replacing O.G. nick with a version of the one people actually like was going to happen eventually even if the movies had never happened.

And how many times have Nick disappeared, been replaced by an LMD, or died?
 
And how many times have Nick disappeared, been replaced by an LMD, or died?

If original sin is to be believed, any and all versions of nick fury could have been LMDs, thanks to an unknown model only nick fury had that was totally indistinguishable from real people. But yeah, the character wasn't popular and his backstory was a confusing mess of retcons. He's still sort of "around" but in a function where he's not really interacting much with the rest of the MU. Ironically, this solution keeps anyone from getting a dose of nostalgia and retconning any other "death" as an LMD or an impostor.
 
Comic-wise the mutants are fine. As far as merchandise goes, there's nothing beyond TRU exclusives & the occasional shirt & Funko Pop figure. Tom Brevoort also confirmed that there will be no X-Men cartoon in the foreseeable future due to a cartoon on Spider-Man & properties they hold the movie rights to is more profitable & worth their time. That's why the GotG cartoon is being fast-tracked for next year.
Unless things have drastically changed in the last six months, I wouldn't say things are fine. the end of AvX seemed like mutants were going to become a lot more integrated into the wider Marvel fiction, but that simply hasn't happened in the way I expected. the event ended with millions on mutants popping up and Bendis' twin X-Books were the only ones I saw follow that thread. Instead, Inhumans have received a real push.
 
Unless things have drastically changed in the last six months, I wouldn't say things are fine. the end of AvX seemed like mutants were going to become a lot more integrated into the wider Marvel fiction, but that simply hasn't happened in the way I expected. the event ended with millions on mutants popping up and Bendis' twin X-Books were the only ones I saw follow that thread. Instead, Inhumans have received a real push.

This is the exact opposite of what has happened.
 
Unless things have drastically changed in the last six months, I wouldn't say things are fine. the end of AvX seemed like mutants were going to become a lot more integrated into the wider Marvel fiction, but that simply hasn't happened in the way I expected. the event ended with millions on mutants popping up and Bendis' twin X-Books were the only ones I saw follow that thread. Instead, Inhumans have received a real push.

when? i must have missed something. because outside of a random appearance, there has been no sight of a push
 
Unless things have drastically changed in the last six months, I wouldn't say things are fine. the end of AvX seemed like mutants were going to become a lot more integrated into the wider Marvel fiction, but that simply hasn't happened in the way I expected. the event ended with millions on mutants popping up and Bendis' twin X-Books were the only ones I saw follow that thread. Instead, Inhumans have received a real push.

There are 2 full X-men books full of New Mutants. While the NuHumans only get cameos, except for Ms.Marvel, even the Bloodpack got a full book.
 
The Inhumans series? that read like push to me.

There is one inhumans series (inhumanity), Ms Marvel, and MAYBE New warriors if you want to count that one- but that one has just been canceled.

Comparing that to the metric ton of new X-books that launched in the same time frame is laughable.

edit: on top of that, the broader marvel universe has been MUCH more heavily integrated into X-men continuity.

She-hulk is acting as the lawyer handling the last will and testament of charles Xavier.
Magik is now training with (a past version of) Dr. Strange, and will end up as sorceress supreme in 2099.
SHIELD has been canonically established to be who was manufacturing sentinels all this time, and that particular bit of business is causing conflict.
One of the members of team goldballs just ran into the rawhide kid in the 1800s.
Exodus is now working for shield on contract as a telepath.
The Original 5 X-men have crossed over into the Ultimate Universe, and teamed up with Miles.
Cannonball and Smasher now have a child. Sunspot bought out AIM and built his own team of avengers.
Spider Man is now instructing a team of X-students, acting on wolverine's last wishes.

I could go on, but the integration is a real thing. inhumanity has been a bust.
 
There is one inhumans series (inhumanity), Ms Marvel, and MAYBE New warriors if you want to count that one- but that one has just been canceled.

Comparing that to the metric ton of new X-books that launched in the same time frame is laughable.
To be fair, the X-Men are more established. The Inhumans are just starting to get a push. It's like Guardians back when the movie was still in development. If the movie is a hit (& it most likely will be), expect 6+ Inhumans-related comics a month.
 
There is one inhumans series (inhumanity), Ms Marvel, and MAYBE New warriors if you want to count that one- but that one has just been canceled.

Comparing that to the metric ton of new X-books that launched in the same time frame is laughable.

I know there's a lot of X-men books out, but it felt like none of them got the hype of the Inhumans. Inhuman 1 being tucked in Amazing Spider-Man 1 read like a push to me.
 
To be fair, the X-Men are more established. The Inhumans are just starting to get a push. It's like Guardians back when the movie was still in development. If the movie is a hit (& it most likely will be), expect 6+ Inhumans-related comics a month.

see the above. I'm not just talking new books (of which there are a lot) but the effort to more tightly integrate the X-books into the broader marvel universe is a significantly broader effort than what marvel is doing with the inhumans.

outside of new warriors (cancelled), ms. marvel, and inhumanity, they're virtually invisible- and that's ignoring that AXIS is basically AVX part 2, with the avengers and X-men going toe to toe again- with nary an inhuman in sight. (edit: ok, medusa is technically inverted, but that's about it as far as inhumans go)
 
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