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[Panajev2001a]

Reasons ?

Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jin (the Qui Gon Jin character in itself saves Episode I), more appearances and talking by Darth Sidious/

Spoiler

Palpatine

, Darth Maul, Jar-Jar Binks commedic relief > Anakin+Padme cheesy love story it could have been treated better) and Anakin constant "whining" about "being held back".

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

ifeel that ep3 will make the prequels and OT gel together and then we can appreciate the work as a whole (note im not a uber sw fans so I dont get so fumed about "alterations")

 

[Panajev2001a]

ifeel that ep3 will make the prequels and OT gel together and then we can appreciate the work as a whole (note im not a uber sw fans so I dont get so fumed about "alterations")

You might be right.

 

[Solid]

I saw Episode 1 last night. I still hate it

 

[Panajev2001a]

I saw Episode 1 last night. I still hate it

You might hate Episode II more.

 

[Shompola]

Same here. E1 is really better than E2. Sure E2 had more action but it was just crap anyway.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Same here. E1 is really better than E2. Sure E2 had more action but it was just crap anyway.

So, uhm... since Lucas wrote and directed Episode I and only co-wrote Episode II, should we say that he is better than what people on this forum think he is ?

 

[SpoonyBard]

Reasons ?

Liam Neeson as Qui Gon Jin (the Qui Gon Jin character in itself saves Episode I), more appearances and talking by Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Jar-Jar Binks commedic relief > Anakin+Padme cheesy love story it could have been treated better) and Anakin constant "whining" about "being held back".

I agree, Episode 1 was better. It had at least some interesting scenes, while Ep. 2 was just silly action scenes and love story that really wasn't that well done.

 

[SpoonyBard]

So, uhm... since Lucas wrote and directed Episode I and only co-wrote Episode II, should we say that he is better than what people on this forum think he is ?

But he didn't direct (and only co-wrote) Empire Strikes Back, which most people think is the best of the series.

 

[DSN2K]

that Maul fight was amazing, only reason why I still watch EP1

 

[Trevelyon]

Yeah, the Maul fight is still awesome to this day, why isn't Ray Park in more movies?! I kinda cringe at the Yoda fight in ep.II it seemed awfully forced & unnecessary.

 

[Saturnman]

Qui Gon was actually the best character in the new trilogy (Darth Maul is just a silent bad ass with limited screen time) and they had to kill him off.

 

[Substance]

The 'Duel of the Fates' sequence was truly stunning. The SW prequels tend to have three or four effective moments which distract and, for that concerned time, make you disregard the awkward story decisions. I suppose I have a stronger appreciation of the prequels given the involving interests I took in the DVD documentaries, and of course, my love for the franchise. As soon as the credits sink into the scene, and the triumph of the score plays, I can't help but feel, well, satisfied. But there is no doubting the difficulty in watching some of Episode I and II scenes.
Episode II's action sequence focus lacked some of Episode I's wonder and the dialogue seemingly lacked any inspiration or character. At least The Phantom Menace had some choice lines.

 

[Naked Snake]

Heh, of course Episode I is better than Episode II.

 

[Bregor]

I liked both movies, but prefer the first. To me it seemed like Lucas went to far trying to please fans in Ep. 2, throwing in things just because they were wanted by the Warsies, instead of them being needed by the plot.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I liked both movies, but prefer the first. To me it seemed like Lucas went to far trying to please fans in Ep. 2, throwing in things just because they were wanted by the Warsies, instead of them being needed by the plot.

I am feeling that too: sometimes the creator does know better than the fans and I think the fans that developed their own "Star Wars" vision and got disappointed by Episode I generated a back-lash which resulted in Episode II.

Fortunately we had a nice back-lash against Episode II for similar reasons and hopefully Lucas will take the hint and will not try as hard to please the fans, but will try to make something he and his team feels it's the best Episode II possible.

 

[Dice]

I like them both equally for different reasons.

Ep1 had a lot more discovery and adventure, it was pretty cool like that. Anakin kid was annoying, though not as annoying as Jar-Jar, but then all the other characters were cool and subtly showed their distaste for Jar-Jar so that makes it easier to swallow. But it wasn't a really character-focused story anyway, and it really is easy to get carried away in the fun of it all. Ep2 definitely zoomed onto the characters a lot more.

Watching Ep2 over again a couple times, I really liked how they did everything and thought the acting was fine, if anything it's the action in the latter half that was the least interesting to me. Now me liking it is probably a just combination of me being a rather empathetic person and applying that to the characters with the mysterious draw of the dark side on Anakin making it easier for me to accept how he acts. But hey, if it allows me to enjoy the film more I'm glad I don't have a more critical personality.

I will say though that Ep1 definitely had a better flow to it. In Ep2 I kinda feel jerked around, with lots of quick screen-wipes and music jumps making for awkward scene changes. It gets easier after you watch it a few times and you know whats coming up next, but Ep1 was more centralized and was a lot more natural in taking you through different locales and scenes. Watching Ep2 you have to really focus on the characters and try to put yourself in their shoes to feel the flow of the movie because it's entirely wrapped up in each of their personal concerns and desires.

 

[Troidal]

Although both are awful, if I had to pick one, yeah it would be Episode I.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Dice, I do feel sympathy for what Anakin passes through.

I just think acting from him and Padme could have been done better: rememeber on Genosis when Padme falls from the ship ?

She seems hurt, she should be... naaah, she stands up, she talks with the storm-trooper (looking like nothing happened) and off she is running fast and steady.

 

[Dice]

Yeah, I think they actually changed that thing with her falling from the ship for the DVD. I remember watching it in the theatres she was like "UGHH oHHHhgggg" then the trooper came over and she just popped up fresh as a daisy. It's not as bad on the DVD (she seems more stunned than injured on the ground, and is less perky getting up) but still doesn't seem quite right.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah, I think they actually changed that thing with her falling from the ship for the DVD. I remember watching it in the theatres she was like "UGHH oHHHhgggg" then the trooper came over and she just popped up fresh as a daisy. It's not as bad on the DVD (she seems more stunned than injured on the ground, and is less perky getting up) but still doesn't seem quite right.

Just a bit stunned after that fall ? See, no matter the sounds she made, the fall would still seem to hurt anyone and the sounds she makes do not change what my brain expects (especially as we know Padme is a simple human like the rest of us, not a Jedi or something).

 

[Dice]

Well looking at the scene (I just checked) the ship seemed to slow down going up the hill and it was turning, that's why they got shot and it flug her out sideways. Then she landed rolling down the hill, which is the best way to fall. Anakin also noticed as she fell out not after, and maybe he subconsciously used his powers to cushion her fall, lol. It also seems like a decent amount of time passed before she got up.

I know it's silly to think of it that way, but what about Jar-Jar vs 1 million robots? Or in RotJ when Han and Leia were trying to open the main door to the shield generator, and they were right there in plain sight of lots of troopers and AT-ST's with no cover but still nobody shot them. Stuff like this is all over the whole series, it's not something to take too seriously. They tried to make it seem somewhat plausible, and that's good enough for me.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Still, the Anakin explanation seems the best.

But still, she should have taken a bit longer after the Storm-Trooper woke her up instead of jumping up as fresh as a daisy.

The fall was at least strong enough to stun her into an unconscious state. I would expect her to eb a bit gorggy even after being woken up.

 

[Escape Goat]

I laugh my ass off when I see Padme run down the dune after talking with the Clonetrooper. I know shes on sand but its like a retarded power walker lol.

 

[MrPing1000]

I cant believe nobody told Lucas that the love story in episode2 needed to be nearly entirely redun, its just cheese cheese cheese and the actors can't cope with its crappiness

 

[Alucard]

You know, I still have no clue what the hell went on in Episode 1 and I've seen it at least 5 times. Trade federation...taxation....planet invasions...whaaaaa?

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Has anybody seen "The Phantom Edit" where they take out every one of Anakin's "WHOAH!" and Jar Jar compeltely.

I have heard its really good, and if you think about it, it would.

 

[Dice]

I always wanted to see the phantom edit, if someday I get a mac I'll be able to make one myself, lol.

 

[Baron Aloha]

They both stunk imo, I honestly don't think I could place one above the other.

Episode I had too much Jar Jar (but was alright otherwise). The problem is, the bad stuff with Jar Jar overwhelms all the good stuff IMO.

Episode II had less Jar Jar but the story didn't feel as coherent, the acting wasn't as good as the first, and the script was a poorly written mess. Hayden Christiansen and Natalie Portman couldn't have had less chemistry between each other if they were in different movies. And it wasn't just the acting that made the love story unbelievable. I always felt that Padme loving someone so much younger than her was really weird. I mean how old was Anakin in Ep 1? 6 or 7? Meanwhile Padme was like at least 14, possibly older. So then you end up with a 24/25 year old falling in love with a 16/17 year old in Ep 2. It just doesn't seem right. And also, all that crap that Anakin was spewing about lusting for Padme ever since he was a kid was just plain wrong. How many 6 or 7 year olds do you know are seriously attracted to a girl the way Anakin supposedly was? How painfully unrealistic.

 

[SteveMeister]

No, Anakin's 5 years younger than Padme. He was 9 and Padme 14 in Episode 1, and Episode 2 takes place 10 years later.

 

[Loki]

I laugh my ass off when I see Padme run down the dune after talking with the Clonetrooper. I know shes on sand but its like a retarded power walker lol.

Hah, I thought I was the only one who noticed that!

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Has anybody seen "The Phantom Edit" where they take out every one of Anakin's "WHOAH!" and Jar Jar compeltely.

I have heard its really good, and if you think about it, it would.

I've watched it. Jar Jar can't be cut out completely and leave the movie making sense, but he is excised as much as possible. Makes that Gungan battle in the end short, that's for sure. I enjoyed the Edit. Basically it's Episode I... but slightly shorter/quicker and easier to take a bit more seriously without the fruit-grabbing with the tongue, the "Yippee!" and things like that. Since it was made with the VHS version the image and audio quality is somewhat ass, though.

 

[ManaByte]

You know, I still have no clue what the hell went on in Episode 1 and I've seen it at least 5 times. Trade federation...taxation....planet invasions...whaaaaa?

The Phantom Menace was nothing more than a carefully plotted scheme by Palpatine to move himself into power to eventually control the entire Republic and place himself as Emperor.

Palpatine, who really is named Darth Sidious, ordered the Trade Federation to perform an illegal blockade of Naboo. He knew this would trigger debate in the senate, and used it as his chance to wrestle control away from General Zod. So, he gets young Amidala to trigger the vote to throw Zod out of the office, but those who will decide his fate and who will replace him are under the payroll of the Trade Federation. And who is controlling the Trade Federation? Sidious. Thus Palpatine created the events that in turn gave himself to place himself in a position of power due to him controlling the Trade Federation as Sidious.

Moving on to Episode II, Palpatine uses his power to firstly secretly put a clone army in the works on one side and on the other (as Sidious) triggers a war by recruiting a former Jedi (Dooku) to lead a rebellion against the Republic and trigger a war. Again, Sidious himself is moving the pieces into place to put himself into power.

This continues into Episode III with not only more of his power play, but also his final seduction of Anakin. To go into any specific details as to how those pieces fall into place would be SPOILERS.

 

[Warm Machine]

If I could turn back time and make changes to Episode 1 this is what I'd do...

...Make Jar Jar a tracker. Stronger and smarter. The Gungans sent him up to the surface because they knew about the invasion. The 2 Jedi run into him and he helps them to avoid the droid patrols instead of the other way around. This way Jar Jar becomes cooler, edgy, and more rougish like Han.

...Make Anakin 12 years old. He is on the verge of becoming a teen and is slightly cocky due to his skills. We'll believe the character more and seeing his breakdown when forced to leave his mother would bring across more of his uncertainty.

...Make something happen while on Coruscant. When we enter the scene Padme and Naboo need help. Anakin wants to be a Jedi and is declined. When we leave the scene she still needs help and Anakin will not be trained. Not much is resolved besides things that pop up in the next movie.

...When Anakin goes into the Droid ship he does so knowingly and destroys it knowingly. This was all built up by the Pod Race sequence so I'm surprised the idea never made it to the screen.

I still really like and enjoy the movie we have but there is room for improvement. It is easy to critisize a movie after it has been made and is easy to want to restructure the story. The hard part is coming up with that story in the very beginning as well as making all the other choices before, during, and after the movie is made.

 

[Warm Machine]

I find it interesting that almost no one I talk to about Episode 2 actually see the clever twist in the movie and the saga.

That is that the Jedi are fighting on the side of the Empire and the Rebellion is the enemy.

 

[SteveMeister]

If I could turn back time and make changes to Episode 1 this is what I'd do...

...Make Jar Jar a tracker. Stronger and smarter. The Gungans sent him up to the surface because they knew about the invasion. The 2 Jedi run into him and he helps them to avoid the droid patrols instead of the other way around. This way Jar Jar becomes cooler, edgy, and more rougish like Han.

Ah, but then, it would be harder for us to buy Jar Jar being duped into proposing emergency powers for Palpatine in Episode II. Jar Jar HAS to be something of a fool for that to work, as someone as cunning as you imply would see through Palpatine's suggestion, and would KNOW that Padme would be against it.

 

[Warm Machine]

Ah, but then, it would be harder for us to buy Jar Jar being duped into proposing emergency powers for Palpatine in Episode II. Jar Jar HAS to be something of a fool for that to work, as someone as cunning as you imply would see through Palpatine's suggestion, and would KNOW that Padme would be against it.

True enough but by the time Lucas came to writing the EP2 script he would have found another way of working that.

 

[SteveMeister]

True enough but by the time Lucas came to writing the EP2 script he would have found another way of working that.

Maybe so, but that was the entire point of the Jar Jar character -- the goofy fool who bumbles along (and adds a lightness to Episode 1 that grows dimmer and dimmer throughout the prequels), who seems mostly harmless and inept, but ends up being duped into giving the main bad guy the power he needs to move his plans to the next step. Changing or removing Jar Jar totally changes that dynamic of the story.

I mean, if not Jar Jar, who would have voted to give Palpatine his emergency powers? Some anonymous alien? It had to be a senator, and Padme wouldn't have voted for it. The proposal carries more weight if it comes from someone we know -- it would have been a contrivance to have anyone but Jar Jar do it.

 

[ManaByte]

Maybe so, but that was the entire point of the Jar Jar character -- the goofy fool who bumbles along (and adds a lightness to Episode 1 that grows dimmer and dimmer throughout the prequels), who seems mostly harmless and inept, but ends up being duped into giving the main bad guy the power he needs to move his plans to the next step. Changing or removing Jar Jar totally changes that dynamic of the story.

I mean, if not Jar Jar, who would have voted to give Palpatine his emergency powers? Some anonymous alien? It had to be a senator, and Padme wouldn't have voted for it. The proposal carries more weight if it comes from someone we know -- it would have been a contrivance to have anyone but Jar Jar do it.

Yup. All the Jar Jar bashers (which went out of style in 1999, by the way) fail to realize that when Lucas said Jar Jar would serve a specific purpose in the story, he meant it.

If it wasn't for Jar Jar giving Sidious the power he needed to take over the Republic, there would've been no Clone Wars, no Empire, no Vader, no Rebellion, and no ORIGINAL TRILOGY.

 

[Warm Machine]

It is also contrived that the entire swing of power into the emperors hands happens because of one goofy alien.

If the situation is indeed desperate enough getting the motion for emergency powers could have come from anyone. Preferably someone with a more serious stance on the issue at hand. The decision would carry more weight and drama had Palpatine duped someone intelligent instead of someone goofy.

 

[evilromero]

It all comes down to this: What do you like better, a piece of dog crap? Or a giant pile of elephant shit? I'm sure most would agree Episode I, as horrible as it was, actually stands above Ep II after all the hype clears away.

 

[Warm Machine]

I simply don't agreet that EP 1 or 2 were bad movies in the least. Anyone who thinks so has never seen a bad movie in their life.

 

[Dan]

It is also contrived that the entire swing of power into the emperors hands happens because of one goofy alien.

If the situation is indeed desperate enough getting the motion for emergency powers could have come from anyone. Preferably someone with a more serious stance on the issue at hand. The decision would carry more weight and drama had Palpatine duped someone intelligent instead of someone goofy.

Yeah, I mean, there are hundreds if not thousands of senators in there, and they were clearly for giving Palpatine emergency powers. Not one of those guys had thought of it before Jar Jar said it? I don't think it would have been too hard at all to produce another inept senator in the senate scenes in Ep I and the beginning of Ep II in order to setup the suggestion.

Even if it had to be Jar Jar, Lucas could have made him a fool without having him step in shit, get farted on, or do 'hilarious' slapstick comedy bits in the background of various scenes. Remove that stuff and you can still have a bumbling fool, and a much more tolerable film.

 

[Spiritreaver]

It all comes down to this: What do you like better, a piece of dog crap? Or a giant pile of elephant shit? I'm sure most would agree Episode I, as horrible as it was, actually stands above Ep II after all the hype clears away.

Go away, shoo shoo. *flutters hands*

I'm happy to see some prequel love in this topic. After AOTC was released, I really had thought of it as the better film, but once hype had passed away it just seemed like TPM aged much better than AOTC. I also really loved Ewan in TPM, coupled with Liam they were quite the team. Obi-Wan reminded me a lot of Han, but much more elegant. Qui-Gon had that sort of elite and elder way about him, but at the same time, very young "sauve" you could say. I don't know quite how to put it. I must say, I love Hayden over Jake Lloyd, and I can't help but roll my eyes whenever I see the kid, the other characters in TPM make up for it. Then we have whole duel at the end to tie things up, great fight sequence, not even any matrix fight topped it for me.

Attack of the Clones isn't horrible though. I just feel that there was so little to be done in it, there wasn't much to tell other than the clones and the start of the war, but thats about it really and about all we got from it. The rest was filled in with love scenes that just didn't carry the movie along well. Though, when it came to the action, it was there and great. The Battle of Geonosis is grand and I still love watching it, however short. And meh, am I the only one who still gets goosebumps watching Yoda fight? He's amazing.

I think Episode III will be the topper though with good chance of rivalling the OT. I hope it doesn't do that though, but as someone else mentioned it just wraps all the films into a nice package. That way we can get over the nitpicking of each individual film and look at the saga as a whole.

EDIT: Oh and I love your avatar ManaByte.

 

[ManaByte]

Yeah, I mean, there are hundreds if not thousands of senators in there, and they were clearly for giving Palpatine emergency powers. Not one of those guys had thought of it before Jar Jar said it? I don't think it would have been too hard at all to produce another inept senator in the senate scenes in Ep I and the beginning of Ep II in order to setup the suggestion.

The whole reason Padme was travelling to Coruscant in the movie was to stop the vote for the creation of the Greand Army of the Republic. The Naboo vote was the one that could make or break the vote for the Army or Emergency powers. Padme was against it, but Jar Jar didn't know that. Since Jar Jar was acting Senator from Naboo while Padme was away only his vote could give or deny Sidious the powers he wanted.

 

[SteveMeister]

The whole reason Padme was travelling to Coruscant in the movie was to stop the vote for the creation of the Greand Army of the Republic. The Naboo vote was the one that could make or break the vote for the Army or Emergency powers. Padme was against it, but Jar Jar didn't know that. Since Jar Jar was acting Senator from Naboo while Padme was away only his vote could give or deny Sidious the powers he wanted.

Exactly.

 

[Dan]

The whole reason Padme was travelling to Coruscant in the movie was to stop the vote for the creation of the Greand Army of the Republic. The Naboo vote was the one that could make or break the vote for the Army or Emergency powers. Padme was against it, but Jar Jar didn't know that. Since Jar Jar was acting Senator from Naboo while Padme was away only his vote could give or deny Sidious the powers he wanted.

No.

A lot was revealed about the state of the galaxy and the Separatists between the time Padme left Coruscant and Jar Jar suggested giving Palpatine emergency powers. The circumstances were far different and it was clear that the senate understood this. The audible response from the senate wasn't of a torn organization. It was of a relatively unified group that understood that the threats against it were much greater than they had previously known.

 

[davis]

EP1 is better and anyone saying other wise should be sheet on by jabba the hut.

Liam Neeson pulls it together as a better movie, and I hated Jar Jar .

 

[evil ways]

It all comes down to this: What do you like better, a piece of dog crap? Or a giant pile of elephant shit? I'm sure most would agree Episode I, as horrible as it was, actually stands above Ep II after all the hype clears away.

I believe this news, even though I liked the Jango vs Obi Wan fight, and I seriously hate Jake "lifeless mannequin" Lloyd as Anakin.

 

[Dead]

Episode 1 feels more like a Star Wars film than Episode 2 if that makes any sense. Episode 2 seems like Lucas scrambling to find ways to make people like the movie, (jang fett etc..) I still rather enjoy Episode 2 and can probably tolerate ep 1 still, but I still say Natalie Portmans performance in Ep 1 is one of the most godawful performances by an actually good actress. Its horrifyingly bad.