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I dislike "man" culture

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I've always hated this idea of "being a man" and honestly, I find it worse when women judge guys by shit like this. A friend of mine refuse to see me as a male (actually tells me this all the god damned time) because I don't do stereotypical man shit (work on cars, drink beer, watch sports, etc...) like, what is this shit?
 
I've never got why people seem so up in arms about this stuff. I enjoy masculine bravado. It's a good way for me to bond with a lot of my friends. Not everyone doing the whole manly thing is just trying to fake things for reasons. Some people enjoy it because it works for them. It works for me.

It seems really weird to me that there are people who seem to think this stuff's all fake, like all men would be different if there wasn't some mass delusion that resulted in men somehow being forced into being men or whatever. Nah, dawg, a bunch of just happen to be pretty manly. Nothing wrong with us embracing who we are. I happen to like my independence and external displays of strength with a soft, gooey emotional center at the middle. I think I live my real life with the proper emotional distance from things for the person I am. It works. I like doing things that make me feel even more masculine, and I feel really bummed that my health has robbed me of my ability to do many of those things.

I'm not forced into this, I'm just--as weird as it may seem to some--perfectly comfortable with this aspect of myself and its cultural manifestations. If you think it's weird, well... I probably think the same about whatever cultural values you have. Cool thing about this world: I personally don't get the appeal of many different cultures, but they don't need to appeal to me. I'm aware that they appeal to other people, and I'm secure enough in the person I am not to feel like I need to call out other cultures which I think are dumb or weird.

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Yeah man, I love it, there's nothing better than hanging out with the boys and getting up to some shit. If people think we're faking it than that's their fucking problem, our lives will continue on as normal.
 
I have to agree. However, I was raised by women (mom, grandmother, older sister), which is like one step above being raised by wolves.

The "manliest" things I do on a regular basis are shave my face and drink beer. I've always disliked most sports, besides the "girly" ones (soccer, tennis) and have almost always had long hair. "Man" culture is silly.
 
I thought that there were only four:

- As swift as the coursing river
- All the force of a great typhoon
- With all the strength of a raging fire
- Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
 
I thought that there were only four:

- As swift as the coursing river
- All the force of a great typhoon
- With all the strength of a raging fire
- Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

That sounds like something out of a Will Pharell action movie.
 
I've always hated this idea of "being a man" and honestly, I find it worse when women judge guys by shit like this. A friend of mine refuse to see me as a male (actually tells me this all the god damned time) because I don't do stereotypical man shit (work on cars, drink beer, watch sports, etc...) like, what is this shit?

A female friend of mine recently told a friend of hers that I was her "substitute woman" on a two week trip we took (she was the only woman in our group). When I asked what did I do to earn such a title, she said it was because I listened to her. That was weird (and kinda sad), but it didn't really bother me.
 
Im not a real man if i read those tips. On the other hand, im not a real man if i don't read those tips out of the fear of not being manly enough.

That's my main issue with the "man" culture, it's so full with stupid shit.
 
45 tips? You only need 4 steps.
1. You must be swift as a coursing river
2. With all the force of a great typhoon
3. With all the strength of a raging fire
4. Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

This sounds like something out of a Will Farrell comedy

I thought that there were only four:

- As swift as the coursing river
- All the force of a great typhoon
- With all the strength of a raging fire
- Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

That sounds like something out of a Will Pharell action movie.

Déjà vu, unless there's a Will Ferrell reference I'm not latching onto.
 
I define masculinity by the positive traits it espouses: be strong, be kind, be helpful, persevere, be intelligent, take matters into your own hands, get shit done, be a gentleman, etc.

The people who can't deal with challenges to their machismo have deeper issues that stem from other shit, and aren't problems I deal with personally.
 
A female friend of mine recently told a friend of hers that I was her "substitute woman" on a two week trip we took (she was the only woman in our group). When I asked what did I do to earn such a title, she said it was because I listened to her. That was weird (and kinda sad), but it didn't really bother me.

How often does she do it? I laughed when my friends first said it, but then she kept saying it and kept asking me things like go out shopping with her, or get my nails done with her. She got pretty bad with it.
 
I have to agree. However, I was raised by women (mom, grandmother, older sister), which is like one step above being raised by wolves.

I was actually raised only by my dad(didn't really know my mom) and my uncle lived with us. I have my issues with him but I forget that I was lucky enough to have a dad that was his own person and pretty fair minded about people.
 
If you're disproportionately holding open doors and giving women your seat then it absolutely does send a message to the world that women need extra help in life and it's "a man's duty" to help women because they can't help themselves (aka benevolent sexism).
I disagree with this completely. Seems like a huge sense of insecurity if you ask me.
 
You all just complainin' cos you don't have the ultimate manly trio to hand. Gaffa (duct) tape, cable ties and WD40.
 
How often does she do it? I laughed when my friends first said it, but then she kept saying it and kept asking me things like go out shopping with her, or get my nails done with her. She got pretty bad with it.

No idea. I just happened to be with her when she told her friend. It seemed like she had talked about it in that way before though. But it wasn't my intention to question you or how you feel about the way your friend talks to/about you, if you took it that way. Your post just reminded me of that time.
 
I disagree with this completely. Seems like a huge sense of insecurity if you ask me.

I'm insecure about the fact I help people in daily life irrespective of gender?
 
No idea. I just happened to be with her when she told her friend. It seemed like she had talked about it in that way before though. But it wasn't my intention to question you or how you feel about the way your friend talks to/about you, if you took it that way. Your post just reminded me of that time.

I didn't mean to force any views, just curious about how far it got with you.
 
45 things? nah thats dumb, Being a man is not a sitcom trope or buzzfeed tick box exercise.

Masculinity has always been about re-enforcing positive character traits that both genders can learn from. My Father espoused these teachings on to me, not really about being a man but as a set of guidelines to being a decent bloke:

- Being of Strong willed and Character

- Taking Responsibility for ones actions

- Value Intelligence

- Be kind and Respectful

- Self sacrifice

- Honouring your word, when your'e at the end of your tether it will be all you'll have
...... and a lot of other sage advice

A lot of people ( modern men in particular) are lost and without these principles seem to trapped in perpetual adolescence (arrested development). A lot of people these days seem to want to blame society for all their failings.
 
If you're disproportionately holding open doors and giving women your seat then it absolutely does send a message to the world that women need extra help in life and it's "a man's duty" to help women because they can't help themselves (aka benevolent sexism).

I hold doors for men and women, I'm in the south so it's a common thing though.

OT I can fix my own car and do handy man repairs around my house, "manly" stuff but I'm not into sports. Not that I hate them, just an aspect of "manliness" that never appealed to me.
 
Get rid of the sex based ones and the "fake it til you make it" (cause it doesn't work), and the list is universal and more so if it was meant for women.

Love a girl who's confident, intelligent and isn't a damsel in distress, because most aren't.
 
I'm insecure about the fact I help people in daily life irrespective of gender?
Insecure to think that just because a man helps a woman, that he is projecting some kind of female slandering dominance.

I would say this victim thing you are doing right about now is a bit insecure as well. I clearly meant no such thing.
 
To think that behaving differently with a woman is belittling her looks like a gross oversimplification of human interaction to me.
 
As my teacher once said, "Just be yourself, and don't worry about if people think what you like or do is unmanly. Its your life, not theirs, and you have the right to be happy."
Yep. Like what you like and don't care unless it is obstructing/oppressing you. In a world of billions, anyone who thinks that everyone ought to be the same way is only going to make themselves crazy. They will lose, always and forever. You only get one life to live, so live it being who you are and liking what you like. My tastes may differ so drastically from someone else's that it makes it hard for me to stand being around them, but I'd never deny them the freedom.
 
45 things? nah thats dumb, Being a man is not a sitcom trope or buzzfeed tick box exercise.

Masculinity has always been about re-enforcing positive character traits that both genders can learn from. My Father espoused these teachings on to me, not really about being a man but as a set of guidelines to being a decent bloke:

- Being of Strong willed and Character

- Taking Responsibility for ones actions

- Value Intelligence

- Be kind and Respectful

- Self sacrifice

- Honouring your word, when your'e at the end of your tether it will be all you'll have
...... and a lot of other sage advice

A lot of people ( modern men in particular) are lost and without these principles seem to trapped in perpetual adolescence (arrested development). A lot of people these days seem to want to blame society for all their failings.

That's being a person, not being a man.
 
Who says I can't drink Bourbon, wear a leather jacket and get a BJ while I watch Pretty Cure?!

I enjoy some dumb masculine bravado from time to time, it can be a fun way to bond with people and it's one of the few things most men will always have in common, so you can be friends with, or at the very least have a good time with people you don't have anything in common with.
 
A lot of it sucks yeah. All the "lad culture" in universities in the UK reeks of insecurity to me. There are some upside though.

Mixed gender friendship groups are the best really. You lose a lot of the bullshit both genders start to suffer from in groups when left on their own.
 
Insecure to think that just because a man helps a woman, that he is projecting some kind of female slandering dominance.

I would say this victim thing you are doing right about now is a bit insecure as well. I clearly meant no such thing.


Again, this is not about men helping women. This is about there being a social expectation that men should behave towards women in a 'gentlemanly way.'

Holding a door open for a women may not seem like an explicitly misogynistic act but the REASONING behind it can be.
 
Is OPs content man culture? I mean, that advice is just practical if you are a man, and many of them are just as good for women and transsexuals. and even animals that can use a plunger < my dog steels mine all the time!




I have a really negative association with what I perceive as man culture, but it might just be plain misogyny and douchebaggery. Like, I see man culture as the whole [lets fuck up the other football team] or [man, fuck that stupid bitch. she is probably a whore anyway] or [supppppp bro]. That kind of bodybuilding misc.com sthick. that theRedPill mindset.


I was born a man biologically, but sometimes I ask myself. I am sitting here listening to K-Pop. How much of a man am I really? how much man-shit would I need to do to offset that? A Mike Tyson Tattoo in the face? running a Iron Man backwards? dressing like a 60s lumberjack? grow some manly beard? do crossfit until I look like a cloud vessel and shave my head so I look like a cross between Vic from the shield a circumcised penishead?



I don't know. It's not I don't identity with being a man. Certain things I love. Peeing outside is one of the best things ever, but again - not exclusive to men. but I like it. Maybe not other men, but I feel like a king watering the Gobi desert with Sterile Gatorade. I like being insanely horny. I like the pump after crazy aerobic activity. I love Bagels!

But I don't think being a man, or my nationality, or some people who I identify with through some compartmentalized group have anything to do with it. It's just a small thing. I can do the culture my entire life, and what understanding is that going to bring me of myself or the culture itself? Just because you do the thing, wear the hat, say the gods name right or hate the correct political party, do you really understand the culture or are you just on the monkey-see-monkey-doo, bandwagon?
Every time I am at the grocery store, I ask myself if other people in the line waiting to pay for their processed nitate filled cancer inducing items are also just thinking about murdering everyone else in line. Is it only in my head, or is the collective hate real? I feel my sixth sense spider-tingle when I am standing there, and I can feel them just wanting to beat the other customers to death with the swiffer they are about to pay for.
And the reason I say that, is because Malls are like the cathedrals for modern culture. Malls is the ultimate globalized assembly line, cardboard box engulfs all culture. It's the end of the line.

We need to get to space and explore other planets, NOW. We need to have much more space on other worlds and just evolve humanity in different directions. Of course it's going to start a multitude of intergalactic war and trillions are going to die, but animals and humanity will survive if we spread to enough planets, and that's what it is really all about. See, there it is again - biological procreation as the only valid end game - another idea planted by culture. I think that it is, but not.
 
Being unashamedly male is fucking awesome.

For a start, it means I never need to read 45 bullet points on how to be a man. Fuck your instruction manual, I'll do it myself.
 
I enjoy some of the show or videogame based on manly culture.

45 tips? You only need 4 steps.
1. You must be swift as a coursing river
2. With all the force of a great typhoon
3. With all the strength of a raging fire
4. Mysterious as the dark side of the moon

Ok, now i want to rewatch Mulan
 
I find the whole notion of 'masculinity' obnoxious, but maybe that's just because I don't and never have conformed to it. I mean, my wife's quite masculine in some ways and I'm quite effeminate - she decorates, I cook, we both share the tidying (although she's better at it than me), I often cry when we argue, etc. I've never liked the idea of 'man culture' and I think I've only really become comfortable with that reality in the last five years since I had kids.
 
read it the whole thing, not just the bullet points

I did. Thanks. They were your father's tips for "being a decent bloke". Bloke, in case you didn't know, being a colloquial synonym for man. You also said "modern men" are lacking in those points. So yeah. Maybe you should read what you wrote.
 
i already have a obscenity filter in my head that filters out everything about how to be a man

my personal favourite is the notion that somehow the only way to talk about character strengths is to do with the ever present introductory "a real man...", or "being a man is...", which is nothing but unjust appropriation of universal values
 
It's too bad there aren't more "How to be a Decent Human Being" clickbait lists floating around, not only for men, but people in general.

Example: Having bacon and whiskey in your diet just means you've got good shit in your kitchen. It doesn't make your penis majestic. Many apologies! Be kind to people.
 
Yeah, I don't buy into the whole thing either. All these magazines about how a man should act and everything always made me cringe. Just be whatever you want, don't let society tell you what to be.

45 tips? You only need 4 steps.
1. You must be swift as a coursing river
2. With all the force of a great typhoon
3. With all the strength of a raging fire
4. Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
Took me a second to remember which movie it was from. :D
 
Bacon and whiskey for breakfast? Sounds as if millions of coronary arteries suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
 
It's too bad there aren't more "How to be a Decent Human Being" clickbait lists floating around, not only for men, but people in general.

I don't think the click-bait article writers have enough experience in that area to draw from.
 
I did. Thanks. They were your father's tips for "being a decent bloke". Bloke, in case you didn't know, being a colloquial synonym for man. You also said "modern men" are lacking in those points. So yeah. Maybe you should read what you wrote.

I said they were great guidelines for everyone, being a decent bloke was my dad's interpretation of his teachings as they were his advice to his son. Come on, guy.

As for the modern men bit, that's just from my own observation of lad culture and entitled behaviour common among young guys I know.
 
Get rid of the sex based ones and the "fake it til you make it" (cause it doesn't work), and the list is universal and more so if it was meant for women.

Love a girl who's confident, intelligent and isn't a damsel in distress, because most aren't.

In my defense, I actually faked being a functional human being and later found out that this is basically what kept me alive while my body was shutting down on me. So in my case, faking it until I made it actually resulted in multiple doctors telling me I'd done the impossible in even climbing out of bed and arriving at the doctor's office.

I was born a man biologically, but sometimes I ask myself. I am sitting here listening to K-Pop. How much of a man am I really? how much man-shit would I need to do to offset that? A Mike Tyson Tattoo in the face? running a Iron Man backwards? dressing like a 60s lumberjack? grow some manly beard? do crossfit until I look like a cloud vessel and shave my head so I look like a cross between Vic from the shield a circumcised penishead?

A real man would embrace the K-Pop and not question it. I say this half-jokingly, because there's some truth there: part of 'manliness' as traditionally defined, is confidence, or self-assurance, or whatever you want to call it. If you love a thing, then be sincere about that. Worrying about how others will see you based on what you like is antithetical to this stereotypical idea of manliness.

So it's actually more manly to like K-Pop and be proud about it ("yes, I do enjoy this! Thanks for noticing!") than to live in secret shame that this thing you like may not be accepted by others. You don't need to be accepted by others*, because you've figured out the most important part: you accept yourself.

And really, a lot of the whole "manly" stuff ties back into that. Some people try to word it like "not caring what others think" or whatever, but it's not that. It's not that you don't care, it's that you don't fear. Too many people try to frame manliness like it's all macho crap, but macho is dumb. Posturing is dumb.

But manliness as a concept has stuck around 'cause there really is a core truth to it. It's not millennia of people posing as a result of deep insecurities, it's a bunch of testosterone-fueled people being totally true to themselves and embracing that.

Embrace yourself. Your likes, your guilty pleasures, whatever. I know I've embraced N'sync. Really Max Martin's entire oeuvre.

Also I'm really high or low or whatever zzzquil does to you so whatever.

(*some people take "you don't need to be accepted by others" as "screw other people," and that's just dumb. Not needing to be accepted by others doesn't mean not wanting to be accepted by others, or not deriving something good from being accepted by others, it just means you're cool with you and if some jackass comes along and tells you that your choices are dumb, it won't bug you all that much)
 
I agree.

Back when I identified as a man. And was interested in feminism. I was tired of all these spaces with "man" in their name. They always had names like "good men project" or something like that. I was like, "it's a good but... I became a feminist to get away from gender things like this."

It's strange, I'm a transwoman. But I really really am not that fond of gender. Especially gender roles. "For men" and "for women" things aren't fun to me. It's just going to make people think of men and women as different and treat them differently.
 
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