ThaiGrocer
Member
So did Miyamoto just double-dutch us all?
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I got Wii Music Yesterday, it's really fun.
- Thread starter sprsk
- Start date
PantherLotus said:
Sp0rsk - "I played it and I liked it"
GAF Hive Mind - "NO U DIDN'T IT IZ TEH SUCKZOR! RAWR! I WILL NEVER BUY IT OR LIKE IT OR ENJOY IT IN ANY WAY AND MY OPINION IS RIGHT BECAUSE SP0RSK IS NOT ALLOWED TO LIKE IT WHEN I HAVEN'T TRIED IT TO TELL HIM IT SUCKS YET. BUT I KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT DOES"
Liabe Brave
Member
The game could be fun as hell. That wasn't my point. My point is that, no matter how good or bad the game is, saying, "Your comments are useless unless you've played the game!" is incredibly self-defeating when the person saying it has never played the game. (It's neither helpful nor polite to say even when they have, but surely the reflexive scenario is demagoguery at its worst.)doomed1 said:
This inflammatory, blatantly untrue "summary" could easily devolve the discussion more than anything said in this thread by somebody not named drohne. Way to contribute.Gaborn said:
Amir0x was clamoring for a difference. The difference is that sp0rsk has sat down and actually played the final build, so he is able to see how all the different features mesh as a game, unlike during preview builds where it usually focused on one mode at a time.Liabe Brave said:
evilchicken
Member
I don't need to play the game to hear the awful midi tracks in the videos. They really sound bad.
Phife Dawg
Member
What I don't understand about all the hate and attention WiiMusic attracts is that it has zero impact on the beloved genre it deviates from. There's clearly a huge market for "hit that button at the right time" games and even if WiiMusic will be a huge success it won't take anything away from that market. Yet people who hate the basic premise of the game rant on for pages and pages.
People should complain about dumbing down the FPS genre (with RTS probably soon to follow), now that's something that really affects "true gamers". But knowing GAF the majority probably enjoys this casual stuff - "hardlycore" really nails it.
I'm not sure if I will enjoy WiiMusic, but I don't see a reason not to enjoy both GH/RB etc. and WiiMusic. The impressions sound interesting enough to warrant a rental for me.
People should complain about dumbing down the FPS genre (with RTS probably soon to follow), now that's something that really affects "true gamers". But knowing GAF the majority probably enjoys this casual stuff - "hardlycore" really nails it.
I'm not sure if I will enjoy WiiMusic, but I don't see a reason not to enjoy both GH/RB etc. and WiiMusic. The impressions sound interesting enough to warrant a rental for me.
AnimeTheme
Member
This game is not for me, and my impression on this game hasn't changed much even after watching all the recent videos. Well I agree this game may have a great appeal to kids (after seeing the recent Miyamoto's presentation), but that's it.
Many people said the E3 conference screwed Wii Music up, but the recent videos redeemed the honor and changed many people's minds. But seriously, if you actually think about it, the original E3 conference probably already shows the most common scenario (if not even worse) we will see from the majority of players.
Many people said the E3 conference screwed Wii Music up, but the recent videos redeemed the honor and changed many people's minds. But seriously, if you actually think about it, the original E3 conference probably already shows the most common scenario (if not even worse) we will see from the majority of players.
edwardslane
Member
OMG!! you can use the wii balance board for your kickdrum and highhat!! that's fucking HUGE!!
before i was whatever on this game.. but now i'm SOLD! i hope it picks up movement acurately!.. it needs wii motion plus to be 100% on time though.
IF only.. i'll have to play it and see how quick the drums are response wise.
before i was whatever on this game.. but now i'm SOLD! i hope it picks up movement acurately!.. it needs wii motion plus to be 100% on time though.
IF only.. i'll have to play it and see how quick the drums are response wise.
Wrestlemania
Banned
The drum trainer looks really good. Like a more developed version of the Rhythym Tengoku one.
dammitmattt
Banned
jrricky said:
I was negative on Wii Fit because I didn't think it would work, but it actually turned out to be decently fun as a game. It has games and applications towards life goals that are actual useful.
I don't get that impression at all from Wii Music.
kame-sennin
Member
Cosmonaut X said:
How is a video game not a toy?
/rant incomingkame-sennin said:
Maybe a proper video game is more about rules and about having constraints in what you can do and where you can go, having goals and scores to achieve. I can understand that. Some "games" are more toys than others if you go with that definition. I feel games like Oblivion are more toys than games too.
In Oblivion I can say "LAWL king's heir" and go out into the wild to follow my own path and play with the game, doing the things I want to do (still within constraints) but I think WiiMusic is like this too.
In that respect WiiMusic is beyond guitar hero 1-3 and rock band, those games are not really about music as what they accomplish has nothing to do with playing an instrument. What you're doing is learning patterns and doing what the game needs you to do. You're not producing music because music is all about your personal input. There's too much of a constraint present in the afore mentioned games to make it anything more than a score attack game.
Willy Wanka
my god this avatar owns
It's clearly not for me but I can see toddlers/small children and their parents and even disabled or visually impaired people getting a lot of enjoyment from Wii Music. I know Nintendo specialise in games that everybody of all ages can play but that doesn't literally mean everybody has to like them all.
To be honest, I think if this had been released alongside a big 'core' Nintendo IP at the end of the year (ie. a Mario, a Zelda, a Metroid), there would be a lot less focus on it and the disdain would be far less prominent.
To be honest, I think if this had been released alongside a big 'core' Nintendo IP at the end of the year (ie. a Mario, a Zelda, a Metroid), there would be a lot less focus on it and the disdain would be far less prominent.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
Really it just comes down to there not being a score at all. Most bitching ceases if that is included, which it isn't.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
I'd like a Sp0rsk/Amir0x solo discussion here.
sp0rsk: omg wii music is pretty cool if you actually play it
amir0x: but nothing has changed, has it?
sp0rsk: no, but when you actually PLAY it, it's really nice!
amir0x: so tell me what they changed to make it good? nothing?
sp0rsk: right, but if you actually play it--
amir0x: nothing. has. changed.
sp0rsk: just play it already.
amir0x: OH SHUT UP
sp0rsk: GO TO HELL
or something like this.
sp0rsk: omg wii music is pretty cool if you actually play it
amir0x: but nothing has changed, has it?
sp0rsk: no, but when you actually PLAY it, it's really nice!
amir0x: so tell me what they changed to make it good? nothing?
sp0rsk: right, but if you actually play it--
amir0x: nothing. has. changed.
sp0rsk: just play it already.
amir0x: OH SHUT UP
sp0rsk: GO TO HELL
or something like this.
kame-sennin
Member
Nintendo-4Life said:
I have. I've long found it odd that gafers refer to games they don't like as toys when the most popular games on this forum are essentially hi-def renditions of GI-Joe. I think anyone who is not insulated by the gaming community would look at a video game console - a plastic interactive electronic device that allows you to play games - and consider it a toy. Hardcore gamers avoid the toy moniker for the same reason that insecure comic fans use the term "graphic novel".
Nocebo said:
I agree with pretty much everything you said except the bold. I personally don't care to segregate games from "proper games". Many of Will Wright's games wouldn't fit your definition of a proper game.
Sorry, but you're being an ass. It sounds good beacuse the game will adjust your notes to the tempo of the song, so you can't play off-beat. The same way every note you play will be contained inside the scale that is sounding, thus it will fit no matter what. You understand this, but you like being an ass and use another meaning of "sound" to continue being an ass. Yes, the game use MIDI tracks, and yeah, MIDI tracks don't sound as well as the real thing, but it's pretty clear where Sporks is coming from when he says no matter what you play, it will sound good.Amir0x said:
The main problem of Wii Music will never be that the game doesn't tll you how good it's your performance. The same way I need nobody to tell me how good are my writtings or drawings to enjoy drawing and writting. I don't need anybod to tell me if my performance is good as long as I have fun. You are really missing the point here and are asking for one game future, where everything has the same rules and aims for the same result. Pretty sad.
He hated the game before, and he's telling why he's changed his mind: the game is lots of fun to him. He's being honest. Nothing has changed since he saw the announcement, except the most important thing: he's gone hands on with the game. Maybe he thought the concept was bad, and now that he's tried it he's digging it?
I'm not sold on the game or the concept, but I don't need it to understand why people is turning their heads and having some hope for the title. Sporks has bee writing here for some time now, and many of us know how his tastes relate to ours, so getting excited by his impressions is not that hard to understand.
Liabe Brave
Member
Even sp0rsk said that he was only giving impressions, not trying to convert anyone or make any larger point. I'm not trying to defend Amir0x's dislike of the game, just his stance that it's counterproductive to set strict, arbitrary limits on who is allowed to express their opinion.pakkit said:
Whatever, I don't want my contribution to be simply parroting what those guys said. My own take is that discussion is best facilitated by the parties simply saying what they think, and everyone avoiding mockery of each other for those beliefs, whether they be positive or negative. It's purposeless to gainsay people's tastes.
hydragonwarrior
Member
this game will be fun when I say it's fun
MiiMarioMii
Banned
So I smashed Twilight Princess to pieces, Galaxy got a taste of the microwave, Resident Evil 4 got deficated and puked on in the same trash can as the Wii. I then lit a match and watched it burned for a minute. After which I put it over my head and become a freakishly deformed version of King Wii who mocks those who can't wipe that damn smile off their face while waggling in the loseless-nothing-game: Wii Music.
Alcibiades
Member
heh, when listening to the Smash Bros. Melee CD Nintendo Power gave away, I would always "play conduct" to Fountain of Dreams... it's awesome and in the game even with midi it's great... I would love to conduct this in real life (I haven't played an instrument in years and don't actually know about conducting anything - though my brother was a band drum major) whether with an actual band or for play with something like Wii Music...Drkirby said:
What seems positive about Wii Music is the ability to play outside the set pattern of notes, in games like Rock Band or Guitar Hero if you try that you are greeted with a horrid screech that sounds like a lorry jacknifing or a cat trapped in barbed wire. I quite like the idea of adding my own nuances to the tunes. Plus the technology behind it must be quite impressive to adjust your notes to the song tempo.
akachan ningen
Member
The improvisations make the music sound even more horrid than it already does with its shitty midi quality. The people who originally made the music put exactly the right amount of notes into their music, which is why they were great. I don't think current music games like GH and RB are any good either, but at least they have structure. And if you want the player to be a little creative, why not let them compose new music instead of ruining existing music?
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Wouldn't this have been so much better?fresquito said:
Wii Muisc is probably one of the most subjective games ever. Not only is it based on the players exposure to music and form, it is also really dependant on their existing skill. I believe that someone who has been at least trained in music to age 18, holds grade level skills in instruments and has a good idea of composition and form will hate it - it devalues your skills and replaces the analogue musical control that you are used to with MIDI mashing. On the other hand those who have no real music education past compulsary schooling and can't play even the Kazoo will love it as it replicates the feeling of musical competence just like karaoke.
As I'm between the two extremes I'm really unsure whether I'll love it (parappa/DDR/SingStar) or despise it (frequency/amplitude is a shit mixing desk, Guitar hero is teenage air-guitar party fodder and nothing more).
So what I want to know is - those of you playing it and rating it based on experience - what is your misical skill level/background?
As I'm between the two extremes I'm really unsure whether I'll love it (parappa/DDR/SingStar) or despise it (frequency/amplitude is a shit mixing desk, Guitar hero is teenage air-guitar party fodder and nothing more).
So what I want to know is - those of you playing it and rating it based on experience - what is your misical skill level/background?
I am enjoying this back-and-forth, by the way, it seems civil enough outside of the "clever" individuals who try to devolve the discussion with lame summaries.
I won't be able to respond to the responses to this post until much later today.
A lot of it accounts for game journalists overcompensating for wrongly calling the hardcore's response to previous Wii _____ titles, and being "unfairly" harsh about them in the initial.
But this still does not answer what has changed?
WHAT about it sounds better? Specifics.
What SPECIFICALLY about playing it made it better than what you read and played before? Do you have any idea? Can you WRITE it?
I've changed my mind about various games before, and have come into threads to say so. Not only that, Wii Music was the concept I most thought had promise before the E3 2008 unveiling.
The reason it is so rare for me to change my mind is only because I am extremely versed in what I like and do not like. And if I don't like X, Y and Z, and X, Y and Z still hasn't changed for this game at all... then I am still not understanding what has changed for me to think more positively about it.
It's not militant, it's just a simple question. And as I said, it was aimed only at you because you were the messanger: the REASON i asked it was because of other individuals in the thread and some of the comments they made as if something changed.
Essentially, you wrote exactly what we knew about the game, showed a video containing exactly what was bad about the game, and then added "it's fun." That's the only difference. While "it's fun" certainly has a lot of weight when assessing value to a game, the thing that we are trying to elicit from you is WHY it is fun to you now.
I am not going to apologize for your failure to understand basic English.
My argument is not that my opinion is more valid than his; indeed I've said as much. My opinion IN THIS TOPIC relates to a very specific element of the discussion. WHAT has changed from E3 2008 to now that would suggest ANYONE should change their mind one way or the other? That is all I am asking for. I am not saying my opinion is more valid, I said it is LESS valid. What I am saying is that unless he can articulate what about it suddenly changed the concept from 'fuck atrocious' to 'fun!', then we're talking in vague variables than have very little place in a meaningful discussion.
It's easy to say something is fun. It is much more difficult to explain why, particularly when you hated it before and nothing has changed from then to now. Not one. single. thing.
I won't be able to respond to the responses to this post until much later today.
Nicktals said:
A lot of it accounts for game journalists overcompensating for wrongly calling the hardcore's response to previous Wii _____ titles, and being "unfairly" harsh about them in the initial.
But this still does not answer what has changed?
Jirotrom said:
WHAT about it sounds better? Specifics.
sp0rsk said:
What SPECIFICALLY about playing it made it better than what you read and played before? Do you have any idea? Can you WRITE it?
sp0rsk said:
I've changed my mind about various games before, and have come into threads to say so. Not only that, Wii Music was the concept I most thought had promise before the E3 2008 unveiling.
The reason it is so rare for me to change my mind is only because I am extremely versed in what I like and do not like. And if I don't like X, Y and Z, and X, Y and Z still hasn't changed for this game at all... then I am still not understanding what has changed for me to think more positively about it.
It's not militant, it's just a simple question. And as I said, it was aimed only at you because you were the messanger: the REASON i asked it was because of other individuals in the thread and some of the comments they made as if something changed.
Essentially, you wrote exactly what we knew about the game, showed a video containing exactly what was bad about the game, and then added "it's fun." That's the only difference. While "it's fun" certainly has a lot of weight when assessing value to a game, the thing that we are trying to elicit from you is WHY it is fun to you now.
DefectiveReject said:
I am not going to apologize for your failure to understand basic English.
My argument is not that my opinion is more valid than his; indeed I've said as much. My opinion IN THIS TOPIC relates to a very specific element of the discussion. WHAT has changed from E3 2008 to now that would suggest ANYONE should change their mind one way or the other? That is all I am asking for. I am not saying my opinion is more valid, I said it is LESS valid. What I am saying is that unless he can articulate what about it suddenly changed the concept from 'fuck atrocious' to 'fun!', then we're talking in vague variables than have very little place in a meaningful discussion.
It's easy to say something is fun. It is much more difficult to explain why, particularly when you hated it before and nothing has changed from then to now. Not one. single. thing.
Wrestlemania
Banned
People have played it and it turns out that it's a lot of fun to play. That's it, I suppose, I'm not sure why you can't just accept that.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Amir0x said:
I guess the point here is: Not the game itself changed, but the reception of the player does or has. The E3 thing was incredibly stupid, and it sounded atrocious as well. So does Guitar Hero if played wrong. But for Wiimusic, imo, you have to play the game to really "get" it, because you have to feel the music reacting to your movements and so on.
I may be totally off here, but that's how I understood Sp0rsk and the whole concept of Wiimusic up until now.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I can think of times when I've played games and I was surprised to like them. Not because the gameplay was different than I believed it to be, I just didn't think it would be so fun in practice.nli10 said:
I'd also like to know. I, along with many, are basing this game on what we've seen in videos, presentations and that horrible E3 demo. There are many games that just don't look fun, until you've tried them. To you Sp0rsk, this seems to be the case. You hated the game before, but now you like it. What was the thing that clicked and made you forget about all that you hated, and enjoy the game for what it is? I'm really curious, as I consider myself a potential buyer.Amir0x said:
Is it one of those experiences where you MUST try it to know how you feel about it?
It seems that a judgment cannot be made unless one has played it, well at least with sp0rsk. Maybe he liked it becuase, at first, everyone thought it was simple and dumbed down to no end. But it seems that it's much deeper than people initially thought and it's a challenge.Amir0x said:
I personally think Nintendo ruined this game's pre-release reputation, all thanks to the E3 showing.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Oh, did sp0rsk play it once before and not like it but has changed his mind now he has the final game?nli10 said:
I think the message from this thread is quite clear. Someone who was a initially detractor had the chance to play the game and had fun with it. Maybe you will be the same and maybe not. Seems to me like he's saying it's one of those things you just have to experience for yourself.
I can tell you riding a bike is fun but if you ask me why I'd probably struggle to tell you why or just not care enough about the why to even bother.
Anyway the more I think about this whole debate the more my mind boggles that it's even going on. Seriously...
I can tell you riding a bike is fun but if you ask me why I'd probably struggle to tell you why or just not care enough about the why to even bother.
Anyway the more I think about this whole debate the more my mind boggles that it's even going on. Seriously...
SovietStriker
Member
/argumentviciouskillersquirrel said: