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I got Wii Music Yesterday, it's really fun.
- Thread starter sprsk
- Start date
drohne said:
methodman said:
I can't begin to understand what you guys think is wrong with drohne's statement. Since I agree with him, let me repeat what he said using far too many words in a far less entertaining fashion.Starchasing said:
You can just as easily physically sit on your couch and play guitar as you can sit on your couch and play Guitar Hero. You can't just as easily jump into a football team as you can sit on the couch and play FIFA or Madden. You can't just as easily go to the golf course as sit on your couch and play Tiger Woods. Doing these things in real life requires a lot more planning, a lot more time and a lot more money than their video game equivalents. On the other hand, you can pick up a decent real guitar for the same price as console + guitar hero game and playing it falls into the same "I have an hour a day to sit on the couch and do something" commitment category as a video game does.
I learnt to play the guitar many years ago, and other instruments like Bass guitar since, and there is an initial learning period where everything you do sounds like shit. Once you're over that hump and you have the basic skills of your instrument as well as general music knowledge, learning or writing a new song is for me easier and more rewarding than any Guitar Hero song on crazy hard bullshit mode.
I'm not someone who turns his nose up at people who enjoy rhythm games and says "why don't you play a real instrument and by the way I'm so great." I kinda sorta enjoy that initial level of Guitar Hero on easy or normal or whatever it is where I can pick it up and do the song in one or two goes. For me though, rhythm games start out fun and become work, where learning an instrument starts out work and becomes fun. When it gets to the point where you have to slow the song down and practice it over and over, I lose patience. I'm sure a lot of people love it though. A friend of mine who is an infinitely better guitar player than me loves Guitar Hero. That's mostly because he's a competitive bastard though. I'm not. Which is why I'll probably end up buying Wii Music.
Digital-Hero
Member
sp0rsk said:
"How about NO... Scott." -Dr. Evil
Joking aside, that game just looks horrible. Different strokes for different folks.
dammitmattt
Banned
Yes Boss! said:
Why do you care what reviewers have to say? This game is immune from the enthusiast press reviews.
dammitmattt said:
Because it is a new type of game and I'm curious how they choose to respond to it.
We've only had two impressions so far (both 1up related) and they've been overwhelmingly positive.
It is obvious that this game is carrying an incredible amount of baggage from the disaster E3 showing. Going to be interesting to see how the gamer sites rate it.
The S-Word
Member
man that shit looks hot to me. I MUST HAVE IT
Mango Positive
Member
dammitmattt said:
I teach too. That's where I'm getting my highly unscientific info. People take a couple lessons and quit. It takes a LOT of practice and it's just not worth the effort when there are simpler alternatives. Good luck getting laid from Guitar Hero guys!!
Side note: I was a HUGE dork in middle school. Everyone hated me (unless they needed to copy off of my tests). Went to a high school where no one knew me, grew my hair long, started doing drugs (optional), and I had a pretty good time. Now, I'm married to a wonderful woman, have national radio play (not enough to quit my day job) and an album on iTunes. So yeah... social problems? JUMP IN! Accept no substitutes.
Kilrogg said:I don't know, Liabe Brave, honestly. You'll have to ask the man. I don't remember what explanation he gave.
It was me. I assumed it would be quantized to force notes to be on the beat, but it appears that it isn't, as you can hear when the kids just wail away and the sounds don't line up with the rhythm well. Unless the quantization is at the 16th- or even 32nd- note, which would allow notes to sound off, despite being locked. A note coming on the second 16th of the beat rather than the first on a fast song, for example, would just sound wrong unless it made real sense within the melody.
A good example of quantization is Electroplankton. The plankton that has songs playing which you can layer different melodies on top of (I know it has the star-theme from Mario) is quantized to make everything sound pleasing. Even if you tap at a random time, it will place the note on the beat or the "and" of the beat. It also gives only the choice of diatonic notes (notes within the major scale of the key) to play, which is similar to Wii Music as well.
Count Dookkake
Member
jrricky said:
That's a good question.
Starchasing
Member
dannie said:there two video part 1 part 2
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4930576
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4930885
it just funny as hell
and some people said that there was no wrong way of playing this game lol
Starchasing
Member
dp
Flachmatuch
Member
Fredescu said:
That's not quite true for a lot of popular sports like soccer or basketball. They're really easy to have fun with in real life, much easier than learning to play an instrument to any degree. There's a reason why soccer is so popular in poor countries (or basketball in poorer areas of rich countries). Of course their cost can be pretty high in certain circumstances too, and some real life sports can be prohibitively expensive in certain areas of the world
The other thing you kind of alluded to is that interpersonal relations have changed a lot and it might be a lot more difficult to find real-life people who want to play football with you when you're free, and that's very true, but I think that's kind of the same for forming a band and practicing too. Music is about as social as sports for most people imo, you can do it for/by yourself, but that's not really the point Comparing to sports: you can go play football and have fun *immediately*. This is why it's such a popular sport in poorer parts of the world. You might be right to compare rythm games with real music though.
JonathanEx
Member
If the kazoo and swanee whistle are instruments in the game, I will be forced to disregard all prior hatred of this game.
Anyone who understands why can meet me at Mornington Cresent tube station.
Anyone who understands why can meet me at Mornington Cresent tube station.
All of that is probably very valid, but the point was about the quote "music games and music compete in a way that sports games and sports do not." Places where people are too poor to play video games are outside the context of the statement. There is a much smaller gap in terms of time and money between playing Guitar Hero and playing guitar, than there is between playing FIFA and playing soccer for people that have reasonable access to both.Flachmatuch said:
In the barest physical sense, you can. See the bit of getting over the hump of starting to sound good as a response to the rest. I did say that games start out fun while playing an instrument starts out as work.Andrew J said:
Flachmatuch
Member
Fredescu said:
I don't think that's true. If you have reasonale access to both (ie. in richer countries), a lot of people *do* actually choose videogames (or TV) over sports. No idea about music, but I don't think it can have a more negative effect on music than access to replacement stuff had on sports. I'm not denying that there can be a bad influence, I'm just saying that it already happens in sports
abstract alien
Member
To be honest, i felt the same feelings towards guitar hero when it was unveiled simply because of the horrible "guitar" and the lack of it doing anything my current controller couldnt do. Also, the absence of improvisation pretty much killed its chances with me. Once it was released, i was pretty much spot on with how it would make me feel(so i went back to amplitude/EBA) This is the main reason i feel differently about wii music(aside from the fact that i love nintendo music).farnham said:
The wiimote can create a more real experience when it comes to certain instruments(not saying it has to be completely realistic) that cant be duplicated on a standard controller, so wii music has the potential to grab me. This coupled with improvisation and classic tunes has me interested. Having Mr. Moto in the back pocket never hurt either.
evilromero
Member
More awesome videos please!
dammitmattt
Banned
Oblivion said:
When was the last time that the enthusiast press had any bearing on the success (or failure) of any mainstream Nintendo game, nonetheless a Wii _____ game?
dead souls
Member
dammitmattt said:
Or really any mainstream game at all. The enthusiast press has almost no power in the videogame market.
I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this but I'm nothing if not a sucker for debating semantics.Flachmatuch said:I don't think that's true. If you have reasonale access to both (ie. in richer countries), a lot of people *do* actually choose videogames (or TV) over sports. No idea about music, but I don't think it can have a more negative effect on music than access to replacement stuff had on sports. I'm not denying that there can be a bad influence, I'm just saying that it already happens in sports
Some people choose to dress up like a Pikachu and other people choose to drive Hummers. The two choices can't really be seen as "competing in the same way" as people that choose to play Halo 3 and people that choose to play CoD4. There are broader choices that people make above that level before they get to choosing which pokemon they want to cosplay, or which car they want to drive.
Some people choose sports over video games and vice versa, but the competition isn't at the FIFA vs Soccer or Madden vs American Football level. It's at the "Will I sit on the couch and do something for a while or will I go outside and play a sport with some people" level. Playing Guitar and playing Guitar Hero directly compete once the first choice has been made. FIFA vs Soccer do not compete directly, it is a decision made at the broader choice. Hence "music games and music compete in a way that sports games and sports do not." Sure our options dictate our choices, but I don't think we need to go there.
To make this vaguely on topic, this is what Nintendo mean when they say they are not competing against Sony or whatever with the Wii. They are trying to compete for against all types of household entertainment. They want to be seen as an option for people who have decided they want some form of TV based entertainment, not just an option for people who would typically choose video games.
Liabe Brave
Member
I haven't heard a single second of Wii Music, so I can't say for sure, but I'll totally believe you that there's no hard quantization. Still, I think it's probably there in a more limited form. The goal is to make you sound at least semi-competent, and using 32nds (or even 16ths) would too easily result in kid-smashing-piano-keys noise. (The fact that some control inputs are gross motor movements would also restrict how rigid you can be.) I'd bet it's quantized on the 8ths. It could be 16ths, but for a 120 bpm song 8ths are every quarter-second, and I'd wager the game probably includes a few dance tunes close to 180 bpm; 16ths would require extremely fine control or else sound random. On the 32nds wouldn't get you much improvement over truly free; I doubt they'd quantize at all if that was their setting.dyls said:
Phife Dawg
Member
Korg DS-10 is not a game or a non-game, it's an application. I don't think you'll get a whole lot of fun out of it unless you are interested and have some basic knowledge in making synthesizer music.Cosmozone said:
Anyways the two can hardly be compared at all. For someone that wants to make synth music it'll also sound more interesting than any rythm/music game ever created.
Those english comments are retarded. GAF never disappoints.kungdavid said:
abstract alien
Member
...jesus help...Phife Dawg said:
Fredescu said:
There is a problem with your analogy.
You are correct in the sitting on your couch part, it is pretty much as easy in both cases. But the hump of learning the basic guitar skills, basic music theory skills, etc. is HUGE compared to Guitar Hero, especially without a good teacher, which alone takes a lot more effort than going out and playing football or basketball. The main point is, even if you do learn the basics, etc., imagine how long it would take for a person who has no previous understanding of music to SOUND, on real guitar(s), like he sounds after playing only 1 hour of Guitar Hero on easy or medium, with no additional help from anyone, not even watching the tutorials, just sitting down and playing the game.
And this is what it's all about, cutting corners, having fun, sounding great, but still having the opportunity to challenge yourself to the max.
Walt Nintendo Pictures presents : Nintendouille
Starring
Sp0rsk
Nintendouille demo was awful. I hated it.
Sp0rsk
I got Nintendouille yesterday: the game is awesome, no, really I'm serious
Amir0x
Those clips sounded bad and you should feel bad.
Nintendouille
Ding dang midi dang
Myamoto
Everyone can play music!
GAF
Starring
Sp0rsk
Nintendouille demo was awful. I hated it.
Sp0rsk
I got Nintendouille yesterday: the game is awesome, no, really I'm serious
Amir0x
Those clips sounded bad and you should feel bad.
Nintendouille
Ding dang midi dang
Myamoto
Everyone can play music!
GAF
I have to say I agree more with Fredescu. This is all anecdotal etc. However, it's easier for me to start learning basic guitar than to get good at guitar hero. It really is in the same space in my opinion, or atleast heavy overlap. You just need your peripheral and a manual to get started :lol While the same can be said about soccer for instance, you only need yourself and a ball to practice with, you don't get the full effect untill you get at least 6 or more people and a large place to play.Model 500 said:
I live in the city in an apartment and it would take me more effort to get people together for soccer than it would be to pick up my guitar and play on the couch.
Nocebo said:
There is a huge difference in learning Guitar and learning soccer. Soccer is easy to learn and play. You get the hang of it after a couple of matches. Playing the songs in Guitar hero in real life however, is impossible to learn within a couple of guitar sessions. Its much easier to get good at Guitar Hero.
Sorry but your comparison is flawed since you're trying to compare learning the basics of soccer with learning to be a pro multimillion record selling guitar player. :lol Being a pro soccer player is more than kicking the ball around.ksamedi said:
The thing is, guitar playing can be done in more places (I like to play on the train when I go to visit friends) than soccer, especially since you basically need more people (for soccer).
Maybe it's just that I suck at guitar hero 3 but medium skill level gave me more trouble and frustration than getting average real guitar skills.
With guitar I can sit down and play 15 min in the morning before I go to work and 15 min before I go to bed in the evening every day. I'll have made atleast a little progress by then.
Can I say the same for soccer? The soccer we're talking about here is a team sport right? As such you need to get several people together. While guitar gets more fun playing with others you can get a good part of the experience solo as well, the same cannot be said about soccer or other teambased sports for that matter.
edit: The basics of guitar are not that hard. I could show you 2-3 chords and a slow strumming pattern and a beginner could produce something that sounds like music fairly quickly :lol
edit2: I think the whole point is that it's much easier to find time for guitar than for a team based sport. Finding the time for guitar, or an instrument in general rather, is in the same space as finding time for games.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
marc^o^ vindicates the whole damn thread.
Gaybrush Threepio
Member
Wii Music is awesome - it's an incredibly satisfying piece of software to use (it's all about being creative and performing rather than competitive gameplay - although there are a couple of competitive mini-games) - it's just that you have to "learn" it the same way as you'd learn an instrument (although it's much much quicker than that obviously) - for the first hour you'll probably sound awful.
Then after that.......expect to start making beautiful (Wii) Muisc together......
Then after that.......expect to start making beautiful (Wii) Muisc together......
Can't say which is more difficult, but I did enjoy making a few meals from Cooking Guide. This may sound odd, but I hope the US version gets dumbed down, with simpler recipies. I could barely track down the ingredents for half the dishes, let along cook many of them (The only things I made was some chicken thing [which was good], so French cake [Didn't have much flavor but was really REALLY unhealthy, with all the butter and suger], and brownies [I tried making it without the bananas. Bad bad idea.])farnham said:
Nocebo said:
There is another problem in this analogy.
You don't get the "full effect" of playing in a band called Black Sabbath when learning the basics of real guitar, alone on your couch, either. In Guitar Hero, you can SOUND like the real BAND in a matter of minutes, even without a manual or going through the tutorial. Listen to the end result of someone's first guitar lesson, even with a great teacher, compared to someone's GH session on easy after an hour of playtime. This is the whole appeal of the franchise, cutting corners to sound great while still having the option to push your personal abilities and improve. From my point of view, GH is a totally different ball game than playing (let alone learning to play) a real guitar.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4941560
Buddhas iiiiiiiiin spaaaaaaaaaaaaace
Buddhas iiiiiiiiin spaaaaaaaaaaaaace
Cosmonaut X
Member
SovanJedi said:
Well, I'm afraid it might have to wait as Samantha tells me she has to nip out now as she's been invited to an exclusive club to meet a group of aristocrats. She's very excited to see where all the big knobs hang out and says that at such a posh function she and the other girls will probably end up trying to speak with plums in their mouths.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i watched the f-zero song clip on game videos and it looks pretty damn fun.
Flachmatuch
Member
Fredescu said:
But you're only speculating about the actual effect of this "more specific" type of competition, while the effect I'm talking about is real and easy to measure. I'm taking a broader view because it's not really possible to measure the exact effect you're talking about, all you could find out was how the appearance of music videogames effects the number of people playing real life music. I just don't see how this distinction of "levels of competition" helps us gauge the actual effect of music videogames on doing real music.
Nocebo said:
Well the big difference between being a pro soccer player and being an amature soccer player is talent. The game of soccer is very easy to learn, everybody can play it after a couple of plays. Yeah sure you can learn to pass more accuratly or shoot more accuratly with practice but the basics are learned within a couple of plays. With those basics you can improvise. You can't say the same thing about playing Guitar. It takes hard work to learn the basics, let alone improvisation. They're just not the same thing.
Yes but the whole point was music games competing with music was unlike sports games competing with sports. You can just as easily pick up a guitar as you can a guitar peripheral.Model 500 said:
Of course it takes a lot of time and effort to become as good as what's being represented in those games (soccer too!). Learning instruments just generally happens in the same "space" as playing video games, that's what they're arguing if I understand correctly. It takes far more time and effort to get a taste of the soccer happening in games since you need 21 other people and you need to find a field to play on. While guitar can easily be a solo effort sitting on your lazy ass on the couch
. If you want to play in a band, worst case you can play a mp3 and play along or you could get software like GuitarPro and some tabs and play along with that while turning off the guitar tracks and leaving the rest of the instruments playing. Can you simulate 21 soccer players?Soccer has many different passes, steals, shots, fakes etc. Plus you need to learn how to play defense or attack and all the various positions attributed to players and the roles for those positions. Also tactics are as much a part of the game as the other skills required. The problem with soccer is that you NEED other people to play with. Guitar is a solo effort you can do whereever and whenever you want.ksamedi said:
Sorry for my waffling I'm having trouble explaining the the point:
Guitar is just like a game. You can pick up and play anytime you would pickup and play a game. It doesn't have as steep a learning curve as some of you seem to think. It seems daunting but you can produce good, though simple, sounding music fairly quickly.
Anyway, perhaps we should move the discussion somewhere else because it is derailing the thread.