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[Slayven]

both sides have to be a little bit wrong...or else "uh oh are we the baddies?"

gotta be this false dichotomy or this big ideological conflict between equal parties who have both hurt each other. Instead of the truth. The truth is much more painful to plainly face.

Yeah both sides

 

[Enzom21]

Once again where are these large swaths of minorities holding rallies against poor white people?

Both sides are the same.

 

[AYF 001]

Looks like I'm late to the conversation today, but since I gave my 2 cents earlier and I don't want to re-iterate things people have already gone over, I'll just ask this:

Has anyone come up with a strategy to actually try and reach these people? Whether real or hypothetical, if someone were to make an attempt by any way imaginable, what could possibly work? The closest I've had to an idea is that you would basically have to incept the idea among the people in such a manner that they believe they were the ones who figured out they needed to change things on their own. Phrase issues among their members not trying to push any obvious agenda, but to at least make them question their own motives. Of course, if you don't want the cover to be blown, you'd have to keep quiet about the plan for a long time, if not taken to the grave. Otherwise, they'd just feel they were duped by "evil commie libruls" and go back to their old ways. Either that, or go under cover as a political double-agent, campaigning on all the drivel that appeals to their fringe voting blocs and party line-towing voters. Then, once in office, do a 180 and enact policies that would actually be beneficial to your constituents and see if they notice the difference.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Looks like I'm late to the conversation today, but since I gave my 2 cents earlier and I don't want to re-iterate things people have already gone over, I'll just ask this:

Has anyone come up with a strategy to actually try and reach these people? Whether real or hypothetical, if someone were to make an attempt by any way imaginable, what could possibly work? The closest I've had to an idea is that you would basically have to incept the idea among the people in such a manner that they believe they were the ones who figured out they needed to change things on their own. Phrase issues among their members not trying to push any obvious agenda, but to at least make them question their own motives. Of course, if you don't want the cover to be blown, you'd have to keep quiet about the plan for a long time, if not taken to the grave. Otherwise, they'd just feel they were duped by "evil commie libruls" and go back to their old ways. Either that, or go under cover as a political double-agent, campaigning on all the drivel that appeals to their fringe voting blocs and party line-towing voters. Then, once in office, do a 180 and enact policies that would actually be beneficial to your constituents and see if they notice the difference.

You want to help the poor first thing you do is vote Democrat. Since as much as some users here have essentially said forget about the poor or fuck them(not talking about the majority of people here as most have been quite reasonable) they forget the fact by voting Democrat your helping them if you want to stick it to rural low-income whites than vote Republican.

But their needs to be something more than that. Honestly with the case of poor whites you can go at them just like the poor people of any group and really you can't separate the two for example they are quite a few rural poor Hispanic populations just like their are poor rural whites. Any program that will help one will also help the other in most cases(not all as anti-discrimination laws will help Hispanics more than poor whites with a few exceptions).

The biggest issue is we must improve the living conditions of everybody living in rural areas. We have to have policies focusing on rural revitalization just as we need policies to revitalize city and often times a one size fits all policy doesn't work. I have in previous post list things I believe can help rural locations. The main thing is we have to realize is that the Majority of the US is in a awful state, hell cities infrastructure is failing and it just gets worst the farther you leave the city. We won't really be able to help the current impoverished rural populations in their 40s and above much honestly outside of better medical care but their children and grandchildren lives we can improve through better opportunities and education in rural locations.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

You are being very disingenuous if you are honestly translating this

I'm not calling this a wash, man. I know what the score has been in this country and it's been completely lopsided. I just think, and you're free to disagree with me, that that does not absolve us from othering and dehumanizing poor whites in the same way many but not all of them do us.

into this

Once again where are these large swaths of minorities holding rallies against poor white people?

I didn't say that there were. I'm talking about personally held attitudes and beliefs, not rallies. I'm talking about this notion that "they" are my enemy, that I could never band together with "them," that "they" are a lost cause.

Both sides are the same.

Not sure if this was indirectly aimed at me, but I do not believe that for one second. Both sides are not the same.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

You are being very disingenuous if you are honestly translating this



into this



I didn't say that there were. I'm talking about personally held attitudes and beliefs, not rallies. I'm talking about this notion that "they" are my enemy, that I could never band together with "them," that "they" are a lost cause.



Not sure if this was indirectly aimed at me, but I do not believe that for one second. Both sides are not the same.

How are the people voting to take away my rights not my enemy?

 

[akira28]

You are being very disingenuous if you

just a guess. but he's probably referring to when you said this.

but all it takes is a little bit of empathy, an acknowledgment that we're being played against one another by the powers that be.

anyway, so all it takes is a little empathy? where's my fucking empathy? we're being played? who's we kemosabe? its more like them getting played against us. the christians and the lions weren't having a competition.

 

[Cotton McKnight]

Both sides are the same.

This is awesome, it would be a wonderful thing if all sides could follow Dr. King's habits.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

just a guess. but he's probably referring to when you said this.




anyway, so all it takes is a little empathy? where's my fucking empathy? we're being played? who's we kemosabe? its more like them getting played against us. the christians and the lions weren't having a competition.

I mean, I doubt he was referring to that post because he didn't quote it, and I'm not sure how his post was responsive to that post, but whatever.

Empathy here does not mean feeling bad for people that vote against their self-interst and those of minorities. It means understanding that they're a disadvantaged group being kept down by the exact same powers that keep minorities down.

And I agree with you that "them being played against us" is a more accurate way to think about it. Wish I'd written it that way originally, to be honest.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Don't we have evidence of politicians reaching the poor white vote? It's called, 'The Southern Strategy'. They have voted for it over the last 40 years. The results are in. They hate The Blacks.

It was successful.

Why do we ignore the empirical evidence? Do politicians not like their jobs? They tried to reach them, it didn't work unless you fell in line. Some black politicians have made it work.

I'm reading this thread and the assumption that people haven't flight for the poor white vote is crazy. Usually, in an election, you have two candidates, at least.

Moderate Democrats and blue dog Democrats? Democrats who supported welfare reform and tough on crime? A southern democrat who was considered to be the first black president?

From the outside looking in, some of y'all have wrote yourself out of history into fairy tale land. Many people have tried their hardest to reach poor whites and they get beat by a bunch of racists. There is a reason and it's not for trying.

If poor whites don't vote, it's not because people aren't trying. People who don't vote, in this country, are special. Let's admit that. Whether it's your cousin or someone you've never met, they have some terrible reasoning skills.

I don't think I've ever heard a reasonable response for not voting.

 

[Cyframe]

I'm an African American, I lived in a very rural area of my state for over 10 years, there were no bus routes, most people lived in trailers, when it snowed it often wasn't maintained very well, the cinders that they(road crew) threw down on dirt roads (yes dirt roads) weren't adequate for road safety maintenance. Chains like Walmart also took away business from small business owners, and stores that were in families for generations had to close down. I more than a lot of other people know about rural poverty.

However there was a lot of racism, a lot of damaging racism, with effects that I still deal with today. So to say that rural whites don't know any better or they don't have the education, that's why they're racist, it's cop-out, and it essentially excuses how they treat low income Black and other PoC who live in those areas who in addition to being poor, face racial discrimination as well.

While I was in HS, I really really did try to calmly explain to racists why saying the n word was offensive or touching my hair without permission was wrong or why asking me, one Black person to give an opinion on an entire race is unfair...but most...didn't care, they didn't listen...and eventually I faced racial harassment so bad that I had to leave school.

Rural whites certainly know that racism is wrong...there's no question about that. I think you can talk about how democrats could cater to them better. How white liberals treat them, but no burden should be put on Black and other PoC to educate people like that. There's no both sides on that angle, historically and currently Black people have never treated white people like they have treated us...so to say both sides...that's a false equivalency.

I understand the poverty, but it does not excuse the racism and I do not have empathy for active racists who vote based on hate rather than policies that will help everyone.

 

[theignoramus]

You are being very disingenuous if you are honestly translating this



into this



I didn't say that there were. I'm talking about personally held attitudes and beliefs, not rallies. I'm talking about this notion that "they" are my enemy, that I could never band together with "them," that "they" are a lost cause.


Not sure if this was indirectly aimed at me, but I do not believe that for one second. Both sides are not the same.

I cant speak for White liberals and whatever allegations get thrown at them, but can you present any evidence that minority Democrat voters are generally hostile to the idea of poor Whites joining the Democrat voting constituency? When have we ever disparaged and dismissed blue collar Whites or discouraged them from joining the DNC platform?

 

[Suite Pee]

I'm not sure how you're supposed to appropriately engage with people who think many of this country's problems stem from "a nigger being in the white house."

I doubt they're open to our compassion.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

I cant speak for White liberals and whatever allegations get thrown at them, but can you present any evidence that minority Democrat voters are generally hostile to the idea of poor Whites joining the Democrat voting constituency? When have we ever disparaged and dismissed blue collar Whites or discouraged them from joining the DNC platform?

Well, no, but I never claimed that I could. And even if I did, what would evidence of that even look like? And again (for what, the third time now?) I have not made "allegations" of any discrimination against poor whites by DNC voters or liberals in general. I'm not trying to draw an equivalency between the racism of the right and the politics of the left. Period.

I honestly feel like this conversation isn't going anywhere anymore. I've said my peace. You all are free to consider, disregard, or misconstrue it as you will.

 

[Slayven]

This is awesome, it would be a wonderful thing if all sides could follow Dr. King's habits.

We need to stop with "all sides" nonsense

 

[Vicetrailia]

I don't know if it's possible to get them on the democrat side without extreme circumstances.

Whoever can do it would be legendary, because you'd have to beat history, continuous propaganda and exceptionalism. So, it's not happening just like that.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'm an African American, I lived in a very rural area of my state for over 10 years, there were no bus routes, most people lived in trailers, when it snowed it often wasn't maintained very well, the cinders that they(road crew) threw down on dirt roads (yes dirt roads) weren't adequate for road safety maintenance. Chains like Walmart also took away business from small business owners, and stores that were in families for generations had to close down. I more than a lot of other people know about rural poverty.

However there was a lot of racism, a lot of damaging racism, with effects that I still deal with today. So to say that rural whites don't know any better or they don't have the education, that's why they're racist, it's cop-out, and it essentially excuses how they treat low income Black and other PoC who live in those areas who in addition to being poor, face racial discrimination as well.

While I was in HS, I really really did try to calmly explain to racists why saying the n word was offensive or touching my hair without permission was wrong or why asking me, one Black person to give an opinion on an entire race is unfair...but most...didn't care, they didn't listen...and eventually I faced racial harassment so bad that I had to leave school.

Rural whites certainly know that racism is wrong...there's no question about that. I think you can talk about how democrats could cater to them better. How white liberals treat them, but no burden should be put on Black and other PoC to educate people like that. There's no both sides on that angle, historically and currently Black people have never treated white people like they have treated us...so to say both sides...that's a false equivalency.

I understand the poverty, but it does not excuse the racism and I do not have empathy for active racists who vote based on hate rather than policies that will help everyone.

I feel you fam. Fuck the excuses. Feeling bad for the person who has bought into racist thinking in order to make himself or herself feel powerful in some way in their poor lives isn't going to happen. Miss us with that. The truth has always been there but these people want to believe they are special and better than instead of understanding that you have nothing in common with the wealthy whites with whom you will never sup with, whose neighborhoods you will never share and whose wealth you will never match. None of that is by accident and you're not simply "between your blessings" right now. Out here cutting off your own nose because someone sold you the "bootstraps" bill of goods and fuck those coloreds. Nah fuck off.

And welcome to GAF, fam.

 

[akira28]

so there was more discourse than usual, the way these threads go.

but why do I feel like people who had arguments instead of having their reason or rationale challenged even a bit, they just went away and left the thread, never to respond again?

or in other words, nice thread, good discussion, did we go anywhere this time?


"you just need to be empathic and stop picking on them. let them win for once, and then they'll show you they had hearts of gold all this time."
and then finally
"this conversation is going nowhere, I'm out."
does one not understand how transparent this is? does one remain confused as to why the situation seems to be so intractable? Do these people actually want change, or just a "win", whatever that means, however it comes? They want the world to change around them, but they are resistant to change themselves.

 

[Barzul]

I'm an African American, I lived in a very rural area of my state for over 10 years, there were no bus routes, most people lived in trailers, when it snowed it often wasn't maintained very well, the cinders that they(road crew) threw down on dirt roads (yes dirt roads) weren't adequate for road safety maintenance. Chains like Walmart also took away business from small business owners, and stores that were in families for generations had to close down. I more than a lot of other people know about rural poverty.

However there was a lot of racism, a lot of damaging racism, with effects that I still deal with today. So to say that rural whites don't know any better or they don't have the education, that's why they're racist, it's cop-out, and it essentially excuses how they treat low income Black and other PoC who live in those areas who in addition to being poor, face racial discrimination as well.

While I was in HS, I really really did try to calmly explain to racists why saying the n word was offensive or touching my hair without permission was wrong or why asking me, one Black person to give an opinion on an entire race is unfair...but most...didn't care, they didn't listen...and eventually I faced racial harassment so bad that I had to leave school.

Rural whites certainly know that racism is wrong...there's no question about that. I think you can talk about how democrats could cater to them better. How white liberals treat them, but no burden should be put on Black and other PoC to educate people like that. There's no both sides on that angle, historically and currently Black people have never treated white people like they have treated us...so to say both sides...that's a false equivalency.

I understand the poverty, but it does not excuse the racism and I do not have empathy for active racists who vote based on hate rather than policies that will help everyone.

This right here. They know better, they really do. Ignorance is not even an excuse here. They have always had a choice, same thing can't be said for many minorities.