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[Earthpainting]

That whole area never sat right with me. While I doubt he was actually raped, that was definitely the joke they were going for. Pair this with the crossdressing they definitely were treating for laughs as well, you can tell these parts wouldn't survive a remake. There's the whole Aeris and that red dog thing that got weird too, and Don Corneo would later also try to get jiggy with Yuffie. The cherry on the cake is that you're basically playing as terrorists.

These elements would definitely make some waves today, and I don't blame Square Enix for being hesitant to make that HD remake that people are bugging them for.

 

[Sanctuary]

I love it when people tell me this game couldn't benefit from a graphical upgrade.

Who the hell says that? Aside from the swiss-cheese translated narration, the thing that stood out the most about this game, especially upon the first playthrough is just how inconsistent both the graphics and aesthetics were. Say what you want about FF8, but to me that's when the real "next gen" FF appeared. Graphically and aesthetically it demolished FF7.

 

[Ol No Bones]

http://youtu.be/Ij8YuHIpOjw?t=1m5s

I always got a Turkish bath house/massage vibe from that scene.

I could realm go for a massage like that right now.

 

[MacNille]

Didn't Hojo try to force Aeris and XIII into mating while in captivity?

reminds me of a porno where someone draw this happening. It was kinda sick.

 

[Sanctuary]

reminds me of a porno where someone draw this happening. It was kinda sick.

 

[Philippo]

Childhood ruined.

edit:WTF HOJO WANTED RED TO DO IT WITH AERITH? EEEEEWWWWWW

 

[ThreePiMatt]

The Aeris/Red thing never made sense to me. If you put a wild animal and human lady in a closed room together they're not going to try to breed. The animal might eat the woman, but not mate with her.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Childhood ruined.

edit:WTF HOJO WANTED RED TO DO IT WITH AERITH? EEEEEWWWWWW

???

I can understand not knowing about the gay bath scene since it's optional, but the Aerith x Red thing is mandatory.

Doesn't Red XIII even explain himself later on, saying he was acting aggressive only to deceive Hojo?

 

[Castef]

We'll need a FF7 HD remake to find out.

A FF7 HC remake?

 

[the_batman]

damn, now i want to play FFVII again, but it's such a long game.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

damn, now i want to play FFVII again, but it's such a long game.

You can play just the best part, aka the first disc up to leaving Midgar.

 

[HolyBaikal]

But you see where the problem lies right? You have serious issues. Pixels on a screen or dots on paper hurt nobody. The pain is all your creation and by your own admission you have issues separating reality from fantasy. 'I feel their pain'. As I said, blobs of color feel no pain so you can't possibly feel it, but you take them and create a living fantasy out of it. Doesn't sound too healthy.

I think it's natural to empathize with fictional characters. Since we're in a topic about Final Fantasy VII... lots of people were sad when Aeris died. Fun fiction helps you... "suspend disbelief".. as a lot of people say. Even if you know they're not real, it's normal and healthy to feel empathy for them.

And it seems like a lot of anime fans... and... um... um.. lolicons. Like to talk about the difference between "2D" and "3D". But to me it sounds a little bit silly. I mean, Hatsune Miku is a 3D character in a lot of things. 2D isn't a very good way to describe anime to begin with...

And it is fiction, so nobody is getting hurt. Except for the people who see things and are hurt by it like me... but even though a real person isn't exploited, there are intentions there. And they're worrisome.

Most lolicons seem to say this. "It's just 2D", or "no real children are being exploited" or "it's not pedophilia since they're just 2D". And compare them to violent video games. And that violence in video games isn't the same as violence in real life. And that people can tell the difference between fiction and real life. And that's true, and I don't think that violent video games or porn should be banned.

But.. I feel like those desires come from somewhere, so it isn't enough of an argument feel like. People are feeling sadist and cruel things. I don't think that's healthy. It's good if they don't use them to hurt real people if they can. But I feel like many people have demons inside, even if they don't overtly act on them towards other people. Not like... literal demons. But dark desires. It worries me that someone would feel that way.

Cruel sexual feelings towards others like that aren't healthy. And if you can have sexual feelings for fictional characters, there's no reason you can't empathize with them.

 

[the_batman]

You can play just the best part, aka the first disc up to leaving Midgar.

my party isn't complete without Cid Highwind.

 

[HolyBaikal]

You can't be a pro-sex feminist and be against women having rape fantasies...

Are you saying it's not very feminist to be against that? Or not very pro-sex... ?

I know that there is a problem that are sexually repressed. And I think that it's sad that women are so sexually suppressed and repressed. And of course I think that women and men should all be able to express their sexuality. And I think that "kinks" or things are fine or wonderful. I think that being attracted to feet or furry or things like that are totally health.

But I see a disparity and gender roles in sexual trends. And patriarchy in the bedroom, so to speak. Rape fantasies are a pretty dark desire, and I think it comes from hegemonic masculinity and rape culture.

I mean, where do you think the rape fetish comes from?

 

[Brohan]

As a child i thought he was getting a massage, don't want to imagine it being something else >.>;

 

[the_batman]

As a child i thought he was getting a massage, don't want to imagine it being something else >.>;

what's wrong with imagining two dudes having sex? :B

 

[Zee-Row]

I imagine that if they ever made an HD version , Cloud would probably look like Lightning dressed like a girl.

 

[HolyBaikal]

A pro-sex feminist would argue that it isn't feminist or pro-sex to be against women having rape fantasies. You are implying that if a woman does have this fantasy, that her sexual urges are wrong. That her sexual urges came from "hegemonic masculinity and rape culture" (which FYI, there is no evidence of) and are thus something to be ashamed of. You are advocating for sexual repression simply because the topic makes you uncomfortable.

I think that women and men should have the fantasies they want to, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But this seems sad and concerned. I didn't say her urges are wrong. Or that she should feel repressed. But I see reflections of patriarchy. Why is there such a gender disparity in BDSM? Why is men dominating women treated as vanilla, but women dominating men seen as unusual?

And I think there's plenty of evidence of hegemonic masculinity and rape culture.
Rape is very common still... and there are many cultural reasons for that. ... that's rape culture.

 

[ULTROS!]

Wasn't the FFXIII director responsible for that scenario?

Yeah, Toriyama was responsible for this and it was initially much more raunchier before they adjusted it.

 

[John Kowalski]

Final Fantasy

Spoiler

get it!?!?!?

 

[Flappy]

Women dominating men is also not seen as unusual whatsoever in BDSM.

It's actually far more common than the other way around. Most men are very submissive, even if they don't admit it in public.

There is nothing wrong with it either. And it only costs about £150 per hour where I live

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I thought so too, that along with Cloud holding his butt afterwards.

 

[Turin]

Well this would be a good discussion for the OT side but......

I think that women and men should have the fantasies they want to, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But this seems sad and concerned. I didn't say her urges are wrong. Or that she should feel repressed. But I see reflections of patriarchy. Why is there such a gender disparity in BDSM? Why is men dominating women treated as vanilla, but women dominating men seen as unusual?

And I think there's plenty of evidence of hegemonic masculinity and rape culture.
Rape is very common still... and there are many cultural reasons for that. ... that's rape culture.

I figured I'd throw it out there that there are many more sexually submissive men than you probably think. It is somewhat frowned upon in the public view though so an awful lot of guys are closeted about it(myself included :\ ).

With that said, I get where you're coming from in the sense that there's some common social rhetoric, particularly what you'll often hear from guys when women aren't around, that's rather disturbing.

 

[Kenobi]

I think the issue was the translation. Clearly still a problem...but I took it to be "hey look your character is in drag to fool someone" much like many comedies. Hell I think the three stooges did it with Curly and the guy they were trying to fool loving Curly. Same with Bugs Bunny or any situation that involves a tough guy in drag like Tango & Cash.

I think because "of the times" we are all a bit too sensitive about everything, including video games and have to put everything under a microscope.

 

[zeldablue]

You can't be a pro-sex feminist and be against women having rape fantasies...

Err...

I think the problem comes from women feeling shame over the subject of sex and needing to feel innocent. Those fantasies are kind of a way to feel okay about something we think is wrong.

So it kind of sort of is a reaction to repression and societies views on how the sexes should behave.

I think. Though I'm probably not the best person to ask. :S

 

[HolyBaikal]

I know this thread is getting off topic, I'm sorry everyone. I tried to make another thread about it to talk about this sort of thing. But it was locked. I guess I made mistakes and said some things badly.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963514&highlight=

Maybe I sent a message that people misunderstood about the subject of lolicon and got the subject locked. I mean, I can understand the dislike for lolicon. Because kids can't consent. And the problem people have with lolicon, I hope, rape, and with the fantasy of raping underage children. And that rape is really traumatizing for children.

But raping adults isn't good either. And it seems like some people on NeoGAF who are against loli, think that having a rape fetish is okay. Neither having a fantasy or raping children or adults is healthy... that was my point... :<
I wasn't trying to justify or defend the exploitation of children or anything horrible and awful like that. I wish I knew why the thread was locked or something like that. But I'm sorry for... what it was that I did wrong. I wish I knew what it was... but I don't..

Maybe it wouldn't have been locked if I did it right.. I don't know. Rape is a really serious and upsetting subject... though..

Anyway, I guess I can only keep talking about this here... or maybe we should just drop the subject. Though it's hard for me not to express when I think that depictions of rape are upsetting in a thread about rape depictions..

 

[Turin]

You probably should have kept that as short as possible. Oh well. It's not a crime to talk about it here. lol

 

[Daviii]

The Aeris/Red thing never made sense to me. If you put a wild animal and human lady in a closed room together they're not going to try to breed. The animal might eat the woman, but not mate with her.

We're talking about an indian feline and a pseudo-magic hominid-whatever having sex on a chamber in front of their friends the black guy with a machine gun in an arm, the busty bartender and the asperger mercenary, aren't we?

Not sure what's the problem. Looks consistent to me.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Wait, wait...I thought Hojo was trying to create a hybrid between both species, one who could withstand his experiments?

That's why he put both of them in that glowing strange capsule? if they want them to breed why put them there?.....

 

[HolyBaikal]

I think what you need to understand about rape fantasies, is that the woman (or man) feels pleasure not suffering. They enjoy being powerless, placing complete trust in their partner, and/or many other aspects of the fantasy.

That's true.. and there are also different levels of BDSM. But I wonder where those desires come from.

I'm sure people at least have a temporary pleasure out of that sort of thing. But most people have internalized racism that they don't even realize. And I wonder if that... helps make the fetish of men raping or dominating women more popular?
I'm sure all sexuality and fantasies come from somewhere. Even if you're born with your sexuality, we can probably understand it. And desires that are sadistic always worry me... I worry about violence, too.

It might be... a little less worrisome to me... if it didn't make the majority of hentai and other porn. And that it wasn't a gender role. But sexual violence is still heartbreaking to look at.
I know that many people enjoy it. And that BDSM is often consensual. But I feel like a lot of people's desires may come from internalized misogyny.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

It might be... a little less worrisome to me... if it didn't make the majority of hentai and other porn. And that it wasn't a gender role. But sexual violence is still heartbreaking to look at.
I know that many people enjoy it. And that BDSM is often consensual. But I feel like a lot of people's desires may come from internalized misogyny.

Well it obviously isn't your thing, so you don't have to worry yourself with it and just look at different porn (there's plenty of it). You seem to have a real issue with people talking down on furries but you don't seem to care all that much for how a woman might feel if someone like yourself tells her that something she finds pleasure in is actually internalized mysoginy and her enjoyment of it is harmful to the status of women in society.

And as was said before, in BDSM there aren't gender roles, only doms and subs.

 

[HolyBaikal]

something she finds pleasure in is actually internalized mysoginy and her enjoyment of it is harmful to the status of women in society.

I would say it's more of a symptom. I'm challenging the sexual gender roles of both men and women. I think that men are socialized to believe that they're supposed to be sexually dominant, too.

And as was said before, in BDSM there aren't gender roles, only doms and subs.

Well, it's true that there are female doms and male subs. But they're treated as more unusual.

Something that is seen as vanilla when a man does it to a woman, is seen as femdom when a woman does it to a man..

It's not just women. Or women or men. It's everyone that has internalized racist and sexist feelings. That's probably where a lot of things like this come from. And why black women aren't seen as being as beautiful by most people in white hegemonic nations. Black women are made to feel ugly by society.

And lots of people have racial or ethnic fetishes. I'm sure that people weren't born with an attraction to a certain race. It must be learned. That doesn't mean people with racial "fetishes" or preferences are all bad people. But it was probably something they learned.

Why wouldn't a rape fetish be learned, too? And where does it come from?