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[The Boat]

I will never understand why there are so many people obsessed with free roaming and open world.

 

[Solid Samus]

It's getting pretty close to it when they're as dramatically similar to each other as the NSMB games are, with repeated art assets and the like.

Within them they range from bloody average (NSMB2) to excellent (NSMBU), but that's a product of the level design, using basically the same template with a few mods.

I was massively excited when they first announced NSMB as I love the 2D Mario games, but my excitement has been going downhill as they've kept on being churned out, NSMBU got me a bit more excited, but the lack of imagination in NSMB2 was disheartening.

Regardless of the "type" of Mario we like (2D, 3D hub based explorer, 3D contained level), Nintendo needs be very guarded against complacency as they've already showed it in the NSMB camp.

I mean they could envelop their next Mario game in an aesthetic that doesn't betray previous titles in the series while creating a bubbly lively appearance for characters and enemies alike, exuding charm and a subtle sense of inherent fun, with awesome music and interesting level themes and gimmicks

but who's to say that nobody would simply nonsensically reduce it to 'harumph it looks like NSMB' when they don't like the game as much as the last one and it's not set in space or three feet directly behind Mario

 

[MYE]

Seriously, it was more bearable when 2D and 3D Mario games were more distinct, but with 3DL and 3DW being more hybrid and using NSMB series aesthetics as a base it had become tiring.

...what?

They are using the general 3D Mario art as a base. Has they have since 64

 

[Artorias]

It's getting pretty close to it when they're as dramatically similar to each other as the NSMB games are, with repeated art assets and the like.

Within them they range from bloody average (NSMB2) to excellent (NSMBU), but that's a product of the level design, using basically the same template with a few mods.

I was massively excited when they first announced NSMB as I love the 2D Mario games, but my excitement has been going downhill as they've kept on being churned out, NSMBU got me a bit more excited, but the lack of imagination in NSMB2 was disheartening.

Regardless of the "type" of Mario we like (2D, 3D hub based explorer, 3D contained level), Nintendo needs be very guarded against complacency as they've already showed it in the NSMB camp.

I understand the fatigue, I just think the common meaning of yearly franchise is getting a little twisted to fit this situation.

Either way, I completely agree that NSMB2 is average at best, as was the first NSMB. I'd call the first one outright bad actually, though I'm happy it led to the two console games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Mutually exclusive? No. Historically have they been at odds? Kinda yeah.

They do not have to be. Unless your idea of a level for a main console 3D Mario is something you must beat in 5 minutes or less, you do not need to have tight platforming so to speak every step of the way. You have a "world", you get to wander around and explore it, you use your platforming skills to progress and you come across platforming heavy "sections" followed by some more exploration then again quite a lot of tight platforming and so on... It was designed in the '90s, so without the experience in 3D platforming making gained in almost 20 years, but let's not say that SM64 had barren worlds without platforming... I have seen people state that it was a kind of action game with platforming sprinkled on top which is a gross gross exaggeration...

 

[The Librarian]

I was going to come into this thread to say, "It's okay to not like things. Then I saw this:

-no reason except for graphics that this game couldn't be on a handheld

...what kind of criticism is that? That can be said about almost any game ever made.

 

[I'm an expert]

I will never understand why there are so many people obsessed with free roaming and open world.

I am actually not a fan of open world games at all, but I do miss the style of game Mario 64 was. Especially after this many iterations. When I played Galaxy I was sorely disappointed in how linear the levels were. While I don't need "open world Mario," I feel that the concept of being plopped in the middle of a level and having the freedom to fuck around is sorely missed from this series.

 

[dampflokfreund]

It's a fun game, nothing more. Nothing special, really. Dont get the hype. Sure level design and gameplay is very good but... I expect way more from a 3D Mario.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

I will never understand why there are so many people obsessed with free roaming and open world.

They feel more ambitious, even if it can in some cases be an illusion of ambition. While I love 3DW/L and think they're phenomenally designed, they lack the ambition of the past 3D Mario titles, IMO.

 

[Solid Samus]

Sure level design and gameplay is very good but...

sounds to me like you do get the hype

and I understand how this game isn't everyone's cup of tea but I can't stand how ready and willing people are to reduce it to something far less than it actually is because they don't like the approach over traditional 3D Mario.

 

[I'm an expert]

It's a fun game, nothing more. Nothing special, really. Dont get the hype. Sure level design and gameplay is very good but... I expect way more from a 3D Mario.

It's been said in multiple threads over the last few weeks, but sadly we live in a time where people either think a game is DA BEST or GARBAGE. There is no middle ground. We live in a world where people get outraged at a subjective 8/10 score. It makes it depressing putting in some time to articulate an opinion on a message board only to have it shot down by the equivalent of fanboy drivel. See this thread or the Wind Waker criticism thread.

 

[Mr. Patch]

They feel more ambitious, even if it can in some cases be an illusion of ambition. While I love 3DW/L and think they're phenomenally designed, they lack the ambition of the past 3D Mario titles, IMO.

What ambition did Sunshine have?
What ambition did the Galaxy games have compared to 3DW/L?

 

[espher]

Saying you don't like a game isn't being anti-Nintendo. It's ok to criticise games.

For sure. Taste is a subjective thing.

I don't like Ocarina of Time. At all. I prefer the 2D Zelda games. I do not, however, think that Ocarina of Time is a terrible game with questionable design decisions that plays horribly -- it's an extremely well put together game (especially for its time). I just don't like 3D Zelda.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I like it for pretty much all the reasons you hate it, OP.

 

[The Boat]

I am actually not a fan of open world games at all, but I do miss the style of game Mario 64 was. Especially after this many iterations. When I played Galaxy I was sorely disappointed in how linear the levels were. While I don't need "open world Mario," I feel that the concept of being plopped in the middle of a level and having the freedom to fuck around is sorely missed from this series.

To each one its own of course and I wouldn't mind a return to 64's style as long as they kept a focus on platforming in. My "problem" is with the loads of people that view open world as some sort of holy grail, as if it's an objective that every game needs to strive towards.

EDIT: I mean, you see this with people on this thread saying Mario, a platformer, deserves more than incredibly tight and well designed platforming and level design, that it's nothing special, that it's not ambitious.

 

[casnix]

I seriously need to get a Wii U. I really want to play this game.

 

[I'm an expert]

To each one its own of course and I wouldn't mind a return to 64's style as long as they kept a focus on platforming in. My "problem" is with the loads of people that view open world as some sort of holy grail, as if it's an objective that every game needs to strive towards.

EDIT: I mean, you see this with people on this thread saying Mario, a platformer, deserves more than incredibly tight and well designed platforming and level design, that it's nothing special.

Yeah but you have people in here acting like this game is the "holy grail" as well, when it's not. It's a game that can be criticized like any other game. The elements of a platformer seem simple, but not everyone weighs them the same.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Yeah but you have people in here acting like this game is the "holy grail" as well, when it's not. It's a game that can be criticized like any other game. The elements of a platformer seem simple, but not everyone weighs them the same.

You make a fair point but you have to realize that this is a really good game that people have been shitting on hardcore without playing it and with completely unfounded criticisms for months before it was even released. Of course fans are going to be defensive.

 

[H_Prestige]

I really thought I would love this game, but after trying it out, it really just felt like an isometric NSMB game with non-awful music. And I don't like NSMB games so this was a disappointment.

 

[dark_prinny]

 

[olimpia84]

So easy to tell when somebody is trying to troll and not criticize something in a constructive manner.

 

[Green Mamba]

Hey, me too, welcome to the club.

 

[Oidisco]

Easily my favourite 3D Mario game, though I can understand why some don't like it.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

You had me till..


You realize that this can be said about every single game* in the history of consoles?

* which uses traditional control schemes.

That's not true. Physics, scale, asset density, amount of characters/stuff on screen, animation... handheld hardware isn't powerful enough for high levels of that stuff, and it's not graphics.

 

[H_Prestige]

Yeah, these posts are not clever, they're not cute, and they're not even funny. And someone already posted it, so you're not even the first.

 

[I'm an expert]

You make a fair point but you have to realize that this is a really good game that people have been shitting on hardcore without playing it and with completely unfounded criticisms for months before it was even released. Of course fans are going to be defensive.

Even if that's true.. this thread is not one of those situations. The op has played the game, these are his thoughts. Even if you disagree with them, they not unfounded nor "shitting on." They're his opinions You have people in here saying like shit "prove you own the game!" and "if you don't like this game you're anti-good games..cause I said so!" It's just as dumb as someone doing what you wrote.

So easy to tell when somebody is trying to troll and not criticize something in a constructive manner.

See what I mean?

 

[nynt9]

And I think its my fault too because I was expecting it to be something its not - a free-roam 3D HD Mario game.

I watched a few videos and I'm really disappointed that I didn't realize that this isn't what I wanted.

Here's what I don't like:

I think what the game is was pretty obvious if you did a little bit of digging, but sure. As others have said free roam 3D Mario is kinda overrated though.

-analogue stick is worthless. You either walk, half run, or run

That's the design of the game, yes. What were you expecting? It's a time limit based level design.

-camera only moves in fixed angles. I've died so many times because I couldn't place the camera where I wanted it to be

It wasn't designed to move at all. Camera is fixed angle in 3D Land, the camera movement here was added as a minor additional feature. The levels are designed so that you don't move the camera.

-run button is stupid

Thanks for this eloquent analysis.

-no reason except for graphics that this game couldn't be on a handheld

Same can be said of pretty much every Mario game? 64 was on a handheld, Sunshine and Galaxy could be. "Could be on a handheld if not for the graphics" is a horrible excuse. Any game can be on a handheld.

-silly touch and microphone uses

They're barely even necessary and mostly emphasized in optional levels. Is it really that big a deal that it turned you off from the game?

I made it to world 5 I think. But back to the trading bin it goes tomorrow.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I'm fine if you don't like it but if you really do dislike the fact that it's level-based and not free roaming, I have an extremely hard time believing you watched or read anything about the game before purchasing it. That was like fact #1 of the game

 

[daakusedo]

About the graphics part, 3d land is 30fps and no multiplayer, just sayin'

 

[H_Prestige]

I will never understand why there are so many people obsessed with free roaming and open world.

Different people find different things fun. I don't really care about jumping on blocks to get from point A to point B.

 

[QaaQer]

Yeah, these posts are not clever, they're not cute, and they're not even funny. And someone already posted it, so you're not even the first.

yup. thread shitting, oh well...

Actually, this whole thread is kinda funny. There are legitimate complaints with SMW, but voicing them brings out the thread shittting.

It's pretty hard to take nintendogaf's word on game quality because every game on a Nintendo system is must-buy near perfection, from 999 to Zombi-U to DKCR:TF. Which kinda sucks because it would be nice to know which games really are worth buying.

 

[erawsd]

I absolutely love the game but I'm also hoping for a proper return of the "true" 3D Mario experience.

 

[dark_prinny]

Yeah, these posts are not clever, they're not cute, and they're not even funny. And someone already posted it, so you're not even the first.

Cheer up. It was just a joke

 

[MYE]

Different people find different things fun. I don't really care about jumping on blocks to get from point A to point B.

Mario is not for you then

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

Why do you want an open world? Do you dislike platforming?

If you look at SM64, the more linear a level is, the more platforming it has.

I watched the finall boss battle in 3D world and I nearly fel asleep at how basic the platforming was. It was on rails, and for 2 year olds.

No go watch the final level of Mario 64.

It's a different game altogether.

I mean shit...you can't even speed run the final level in 3D world.

 

[The Boat]

Yeah but you have people in here acting like this game is the "holy grail" as well, when it's not. It's a game that can be criticized like any other game. The elements of a platformer seem simple, but not everyone weighs them the same.

It's OK to like whatever, but considering the genre, I'd say it's very, very silly to weigh exploration more than platforming if trying to have a discussion about design. Of course it's not silly to prefer one or the other.

It's important to notice that there aren't that many 3D platformers that actually focus on jumping. This is why 3D World is getting such a great reception, not only is it a brilliantly designed game, it's very, very rare that we get a game like this. Galaxy might have started this trend, but 3D Land and world are probably the only two 3D platformers that actually did platforming like this and so well especially world. This is important and nothing to scoff at.

I also don't think an exploration focused Mario would have the same impact it had with 64. It was great to mess around back then, because it was the dawn of 3D, but right now, it's hardly anything to get excited about.

Bottom line, I think that managing to do platforming right in 3D is much more important than exploring, regardless of taste, but there's room to try different styles and ideas, as long as they never abandon good platforming. It's perfectly legitimate to want a 64-like Mario, but there are people who aren't able to look beyond their tastes and see how there's ambition and merit in making a 3D Mario game with tight platforming and level design, this while supporting 4 players. Saying there's no ambition in this (and I don't think this is what you in particular are saying) is blindly connecting ambition to the imaginary holy grail of open world, when ambition in game design goes way, way beyond that.

Edit:

I watched the finall boss battle in 3D world and I nearly fel asleep at how basic the platforming was. It was on rails, and for 2 year olds.

No go watch the final level of Mario 64.

It's a different game altogether.

I mean shit...you can't even speed run the final level in 3D world.

I hope this is a joke post.

 

[munchie64]

Yeah, these posts are not clever, they're not cute, and they're not even funny. And someone already posted it, so you're not even the first.

So you're saying... you don't like that thing?

Spoiler

Ok.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

What ambition did Sunshine have?
What ambition did the Galaxy games have compared to 3DW/L?

Perhaps "ambitious" is the wrong word to use, but IMO 3DW lacks the same wow factor. Why that is is a combination of factors, at least for me.

Sunshine had a beautiful, decently-sized environment that was fun to traverse, fun boss fights, and I thought the various FLUDD attachments were a lot of fun to use.

Galaxy had great boss fights, phenomenal art and music, and relatively novel mechanics.

The 3D World/Land games feel a bit "been there done that," which isn't a bad thing since the underlying game is very tightly designed and still really good. I don't think it's necessarily absurd that some people feel underwhelmed though.

 

[MYE]

He watched the final level and he thinks...

 

[Green Mamba]

He watched the final level and he thinks...

Hey, I've played it, and it's boring. Does that count?

 

[H_Prestige]

It's pretty hard to take nintendogaf's word on game quality because every game on a Nintendo system is must-buy near perfection, from 999 to Zombi-U to DKCR:TF. Which kinda sucks because it would be nice to know which games really are worth buying.

I've noticed this as well.

 

[MYE]

It's pretty hard to take nintendogaf's word on game quality because every game on a Nintendo system is must-buy near perfection

Read reviews?

 

[I'm an expert]

Read reviews?

Did you seriously just do this.. =/

 

[MYE]

Did you seriously just do this.. =/

?

If he doesn't trust """nintendoGAF""" what else am I supposed to suggest?

 

[-MB-]

yup. thread shitting, oh well...

Actually, this whole thread is kinda funny. There are legitimate complaints with SMW, but voicing them brings out the thread shittting.

It's pretty hard to take nintendogaf's word on game quality because every game on a Nintendo system is must-buy near perfection, from 999 to Zombi-U to DKCR:TF. Which kinda sucks because it would be nice to know which games really are worth buying.

Talking about thread shitting...

 

[dark_prinny]

I'm having a hard time not loving this game to pieces. But that's just me.

-Outstanding level design.
-Fun and challenging plattforming
-Beautiful music.


Is my favourite Mario game since SMW.

 

[Solid Samus]

Hey, I've played it, and it's boring. Does that count?

I played TLOU and I didn't enjoy it too much personally

Spoiler

therefore it is objectively boring from all reasonable perspectives. such slow plodding design, just look at uncharted 2 hanging from lampposts shooting goons in the face... it's like a different game altogether

 

[GSG Flash]

I think the game is severely overrated but it's still really fun.

The real meat of the game is in going for all the stars and stamps. I also love the toad stages.

 

[I'm an expert]

?

If he doesn't trust """nintendoGAF""" what else am I supposed to suggest?

"Reviewers" are just bad if not worse than a random stranger gaf netizen. Discussing opinions is fine, but making decisions on anyone else's but your own opinion is just silly. You either do your own research or you actually try the game out, that's the only way to know if you will like it. In this very thread op openly admitted he didn't do enough research and his purchasing decision was a mistake because the game doesn't fit his tastes. Reading Joe Blow's ranting, raving review of this or any game wouldn't change that.

 

[Kokonoe]

"Reviewers" are just bad if not worse than a random stranger gaf netizen. Discussing opinions is fine, but making decisions on anyone else's but your own opinion is just silly. You either do your own research or you actually try the game out, that's the only way to know if you will like it. In this very thread op openly admitted he didn't do enough research and his purchasing decision was a mistake because the game doesn't fit his tastes. Reading Joe Blow's ranting, raving review of this or any game wouldn't change that.

I agree with all of this. It gets very tiring to see everyone trying to be a corporate salesman for each game in threads, and it isn't just Nintendo threads either, although it does occur in them a lot. I always buy games that seem interesting to me, not ones people who are trying to sell me something. That will never be the reason I buy a game.